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[AOC] Soldiers: doing face transplants with axes

eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS regular
edited June 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
This here be a thread for them Guardians and Dark Templars and whatnot.

Gonna go ahead and throw out what I've found to be a pretty good tanking routine circa level 40 for 6 player content

I open with improved counterstrike to get all of the mobs swinging at me, then toss out the brutal dulling and the bleeding combo - i'm wondering if the dot ticks of bleed have a chance to proc Taunt - so far its worked on the 5+ accidental pulls inside Sanctum.

Also, for the guardians, I learned a fancy little exploit for the big blood boss in Sanctum - if you use your Overwhelming Shout, the boss not only gets affected by it, but the effect never fades. Free loot.


Back to getting hate, I've found OverReach is a HUGE aggro snap! HUGE - then I just throw out more bleeds - I've noticed the bleed effects arent nerfed by the over reach debuff.

Feel free, in this post, to tell tanking stories, or post strategems or theorems.


Oh! And the stunning charge in the jugg tree is a HUGE aggro snap. Apparently mobs dont like being stunned at all.

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    eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    So, anyone playing a Dark Templar? What's that all about?

    I know you tankers are out there!

    I like this forum better than Funcoms, mostly because of the company this one keeps.

    eatmosushi on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Here's how I tank: I run in with my barbarian and spam all my combos, then I get aggro and I run away.

    Seriously, though, good thread idea. I plan on making a Templar as an alt.

    DisruptorX2 on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    whuh

    why aren't you just posting in the AoC thread

    Zzulu on
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    DyvionDyvion Back in Sunny Florida!!Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm so looking forward to playing my guardian... Sword and Board ftw. Have a buddy that's been playing since release (he missed early access) and he's loving his guardian. He's not on any of the PA servers though, he's on Cimmerian. Can't wait to get my copy... never dealing with overstock.com again. grr.

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    eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    whuh

    why aren't you just posting in the AoC thread


    Cause tanking is serious business.

    Juggernaut Tree = I'm The Juggernaut, BITCH

    Q: How do I make my demonologist wait a few moments before nuking when mobs pop up out of nowhere?

    A: /say "Ok, you tank" and only goad the mob after the impatient demonologist meets his timely demise.

    eatmosushi on
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    Dagan_RyderDagan_Ryder Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm a Dark Templar. I'm only a level 25 though.

    This class is pretty weird. You pretty much suck 1 on 1, but you can fight crowds of people all day long. As they do damage to you, you heal a bit. As you do damage to them, you heal a bit. Meanwhile, you have curses and auras that heal you even more.

    I'm finding the combat really challenging (in a good way). I've never played a warrior class that requires this much concentration and skill.

    I can't wait to do some quests or pvp with a full group. DT's really seem to work amazing when you have friends.

    Dagan_Ryder on
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    eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    If I was you, and believe me, with the way my day is going, I probably wish I was, I'd grab all the medium to heavy armour (5 more lvls for you) I could with +unholy damage (spell). I think that will be your key to speeding up encounters, sort of like a prot pally stacking spell damage in wow. Am I wrong in assuming all of your abilities cause unholy damage?

    eatmosushi on
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    LlyLly Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    If the aoc thread keeps moving at the pace that it is we will need separate threads just to keep up. So yeah, tanking. So far on my conqueror i have basically just dpsed as hard as i can spamming abilities. That seems to have worked so far, but i am still only level 22. :)

    Lly on
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    Dagan_RyderDagan_Ryder Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Most of the damage is just whatever the weapon is...but there are chances to proc unholy damage. So, yeah, basically DTs have several unholy damage dots going on at the same time.

    There's a skill called Covenant of Arms that is supposed to proc with unholy damage...but people seem to agree that it's broken. Which sucks, because I have the feat maxed out with 5, plus the next tier point that adds more damage as they approach death.

    ...and yeah. I can't *wait* to get heavy armor. :)

    Dagan_Ryder on
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    Whiniest Man On EarthWhiniest Man On Earth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Just make this the general "Soldier" class thread. I'll start one for Rogues/Priests later.

    I think I am going to start a DT alt at some point, because I like the class so much, but being bad at 1 on 1 pvp sounds kind of like a bummer. Do they get stronger as they go along in 1v1 situations? That's a question I haven't really heard answered.

    Whiniest Man On Earth on
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    ScroffusScroffus Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    This class is pretty weird. You pretty much suck 1 on 1, but you can fight crowds of people all day long. As they do damage to you, you heal a bit. As you do damage to them, you heal a bit. Meanwhile, you have curses and auras that heal you even more.

    I had an image of a team of 50 dark templars attacking 50 dark templars and nobody dieing ever. Oh the humanity!

    I was thinking about making a DT since it looks interesting. Do they have lots of beneficial group buffs (I can see thier role in group pvp as a general group buff/low dps char which sounds nice).

    Scroffus on
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    DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    whuh

    why aren't you just posting in the AoC thread

    don't forget to go into every WoW class thread, pvp thread, raid thread, and other misc. threads and ask why they're not posting in the WoW thread.

    DiscoZombie on
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    Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    whuh

    why aren't you just posting in the AoC thread

    don't forget to go into every WoW class thread, pvp thread, raid thread, and other misc. threads and ask why they're not posting in the WoW thread.

    hahahahahahahahaha!

    Nice one!

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
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    Dagan_RyderDagan_Ryder Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I hear Dark Templars really start getting strong in the 30s.

    As far as 1v1 pvp, I'm sure a DT can hold his own.

    You just have to deal with some interesting conditions:

    1) You'll never out dps anyone. Your most damaging attack should come at the end for a killing blow. You want to outlast them and drain them of power. As the DT levels, you can soak up a ridiculous amount of damage.

    2) You go through stamina like crazy. You have to really conserve stam to chase down fleeing bitches (something all soldier types have to deal with). But you obviously need to attack with combos, so find a happy medium.

    3) Nukers give us problems. Not a lot you can do about it. I hear hiding helps, but I haven't trained many points in it yet, so no first hand experience.

    One great thing I've noticed is that when you pvp with some friends the enemy tend to ignore DTs. You're not doing huge spike damage, so they tend to lose focus and go after the barbarian or ToS. Also, you should be hitting groups of people rather than a single target...making you harder to track since you're running around so much. The more people fighting means the more healing you're getting and passing on to your group.

    I understand why people would want to be good at 1v1 pvp, but when the siege battles come around...Dark Templars will be everyone's best friend or worst enemy.

    Dagan_Ryder on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    whuh

    why aren't you just posting in the AoC thread

    don't forget to go into every WoW class thread, pvp thread, raid thread, and other misc. threads and ask why they're not posting in the WoW thread.

    Actually I think those are stupid as well and they clutter up the entire MMO forum with shit

    Zzulu on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    if it were one thread per game there would not be very many threads

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    Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys the AoC tank thread is cool, bring more threads even! There is plenty of forum space to share (No stupid threads). We can all be friends :rotate:

    Soviet Waffle on
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    meatflowermeatflower Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Dyscord wrote: »
    if it were one thread per game there would not be very many threads

    The only games that have more than one thread are WoW and CoX. CoX has two, WoW has like 15...the majority of this forum. If you read the rules of the forum, it actually says that each game should just have one general thread. Why do WoW and CoX get special treatment? A lot of people play them, WoW used to have it's own forum before this menagerie, and/or the mods play those games. Take your pick.

    This should be fun though. :P



    As far as DT tankin goes, I think I'm gonna have to rely mostly on the +Taunt gear and skill. Unless you've got heavy healing support, taking the time to do the general hate generating combos as opposed to Life Leech or Soul for our Feast could mean near death.

    meatflower on
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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So what does it take to kill a Guardian? This is the class I'm most interested in, and I'm wondering how they fare - do they just take an inordinate amount of time to die, or are there situations where they really need to be supported to work correctly?

    Ringo on
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    encloserencloser Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Is there anywhere out of game that lists all the feats and skills that guardians get?

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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm a barbarian and I fought a guardian today.

    Man.

    We both used pots and just stood there for a good 3-4 minutes, trading blows and stunning eachother. In the end I ran out of pots and just ran. Guardians really live forever with pots.

    Zzulu on
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    Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Lvl 12 DT, still getting my ass handed to me by mobs of 2+ that are same level.

    The tanking abilities that are so flaunted just don't seem there. I have all my feat points in the feat that gives a bit of health for each damage, and I throw around leech life whenever I can, but it really doesn't seem enough to keep me up. Slam doesn't work on NPCs after lvl 6 it seems, and none of their abilities seem like really hard hitters.

    Anyone else having a better experience with the DT than me?

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    I'm a barbarian and I fought a guardian today.

    Man.

    We both used pots and just stood there for a good 3-4 minutes, trading blows and stunning eachother. In the end I ran out of pots and just ran. Guardians really live forever with pots.

    Yep, and we also can't outdamage pots :P Playing Juggernaut is fun against mobs but it does get frustrating trying to kill people in PvP.

    Zek on
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    delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Slam doesn't work on NPCs after lvl 6 it seems

    This is important for all classes, but since it was brought up in this thread:

    Slam and Sweep are universal melee abilities for characters < level 7. Once you get your first two class combos, you should never, ever use Slam or Sweep ever again. They are worthless, and they never get better. Think of them like Brawl from CoH: useful at low levels when you only have one or two attack powers, but never used once you get your third and aren't waiting on cooldowns anymore.

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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The other class threads are have way awesomer OPs than ours. :(

    However...

    I <3 my Conqueror. I'm lvl 28, and I'm thinking about respecing to the dual-wield tree, but I just can't see myself without Lumbering Hulk. I am itching to try out those combos I haven't used yet, though, and to catch some sweet DW fatalities.

    Tanking with a conqueror is a bitch, though. Maybe the Ymirish quests are just too high for me to tank as a lvl 28 when there's no healer in the group, but most of the elite mobs in the game just wreck me in under 20 seconds if I don't have a healer. Guardians don't seem to have this problem.

    A word to the wise: Resolute Orders is the shit if you are being asked to tank or off-tank, Battle Orders is really good when you have a lot of rogues in the group, and the other one (the one that makes people on defensive stance draw more aggro, can't remember the name) is only really good if you've got a pair of guardians in the group.

    My tactic (as a 2H specialist) for reaming pairs or teams of even-leveled or higher level mobs is this:

    Lumbering Hulk
    Charge (and hope that stupid leaping-backwards charge bug doesn't show up)
    Resolute Orders
    Guard of Dancing Steel
    1
    Batter Aside
    Feint Attack
    Enraging Wound
    Hail of Furious Strikes
    If mobs = $(not pwnt) then goto 1, else Rest;

    I'd love to hear how dual-weilders are running their Conqs.

    MrMonroe on
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    eatmosushieatmosushi __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    Then you make OP? whatchoo want for me

    eatmosushi on
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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I realized later you were the first and they just pumped it as hard as possible afterwards. Hold ups... I will be back with pretty pictures and website quotes for you to steal and put in your OP.

    MrMonroe on
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    LittleBootsLittleBoots Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Lvl 12 DT, still getting my ass handed to me by mobs of 2+ that are same level.

    The tanking abilities that are so flaunted just don't seem there. I have all my feat points in the feat that gives a bit of health for each damage, and I throw around leech life whenever I can, but it really doesn't seem enough to keep me up. Slam doesn't work on NPCs after lvl 6 it seems, and none of their abilities seem like really hard hitters.

    Anyone else having a better experience with the DT than me?

    Me. I'm lvl 42. Once I hit 20 I could pretty much take on 2 or 3 mobs my level and survive with half health. At my current level I've taken on elites 2 levels above me and won and regular mobs 3 to 4 levels above me and won without a problem. The fights are very slow though and you got to make sure to hit only the spots that are unshielded or at max one shield. It only takes a few misplaced combos for the mobs to gain the upper hand and out DPS your heals.

    LittleBoots on

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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    For your stealage:

    Guardians: Tankeray and Tonic:

    He%27s+ready+for+anything.preview.jpg

    Full Plate armor, choice of shields or polearms, you are the stalwart man-mountain standing between the twelve-foot lizard demon and the little guy wearing a dress throwing lightning bolts. Your job is to be noticeable. Nay, your job is to be infuriating. Nay, it is to make the other guy poop his pants and convince him the only way to get them clean is by focusing on you.

    Dark Templars: Disco Inferno

    Feel+the+Power.preview.jpg

    Who needs full plate armor when you can just suck the life out of hapless opponents. The only magic-using soldier class, Dark Templars focus on debuffing opponents and healing themselves through dark magic. They are not, of course, nice people. The DT can obtain a skill which actually heals them just by seeing people around them get hurt, whether friend or foe. Scientifically, I believe this is classified as totally fucking brutal.

    Conquerors: When Life Gives you Legions...

    Charge%21.preview.jpg

    You cut them into tiny pieces. Without the full plate of Guardians or the magical protection of the Templar, Conquerors like to focus more on totally slaughtering everything around them as quickly as possible, while providing some seriously useful group buffs at the same time. When a conqueror enters a party, everyone gets a bigger piece of the action.

    For your feat-calculating needs:
    http://feats.goonheim.com/

    For your other general information:
    http://aoc.wikia.com/wiki/Soldier

    Once stolen I'll just snip this post so it doesn't show up twice

    MrMonroe on
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    CrovaxanCrovaxan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So in an effort to start this thread back up, I recently got a talismen for my DT. i thought i read somewhere that the benefits of a shield are better then dealing with the talismen. Anyone got anything about it?

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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    What talisman are you using? I've seen a lot that looked great for a demo or necro, but nothing for a DT.

    MrMonroe on
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    Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Thash grape! Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I can't imagine a Talisman that would be better than a shield for a tank class, unless it added a whole bunch of damage or something.

    My DT is still pretty low level (17, finished all the Destiny quests except the Last Battle), but what I started doing was using Frenzy stance, and counting on my armor+shield+drain healing to keep me up. I'm not entirely sold on this strategy yet, but it definately has sped up the battles quite a bit, which is what I was looking for.

    Toxic Pickle on
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    LittleBootsLittleBoots Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I can't imagine a Talisman that would be better than a shield for a tank class, unless it added a whole bunch of damage or something.

    My DT is still pretty low level (17, finished all the Destiny quests except the Last Battle), but what I started doing was using Frenzy stance, and counting on my armor+shield+drain healing to keep me up. I'm not entirely sold on this strategy yet, but it definately has sped up the battles quite a bit, which is what I was looking for.

    I can tell you now, as a lvl 42 DT that frenzy stance is "please rape me in two hits stance." Its not very practical unless you have a healer and even then you'll still die quite a bit. If I want to do damage I just don't use a stance then if I'm taking a beating I switch to defensive and wait for a heal before switching out or if I don't have a healer I just stay in defensive stance until the fight is over (about 2 hours in defensive stance). In other words, your leach life and other life leaching skills do not make up for the damage mitigation of your armor (which frenzy stances kills).

    LittleBoots on

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    CrovaxanCrovaxan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    well im barely lvl 18 and i dont know the name of my talismen but it adds 1.5 holy dmg and .5 unholy damage. I was in a group killing some black ones when a better one dropped but my inventory was full so it went to the guardian :(

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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Crovaxan wrote: »
    well im barely lvl 18 and i dont know the name of my talismen but it adds 1.5 holy dmg and .5 unholy damage. I was in a group killing some black ones when a better one dropped but my inventory was full so it went to the guardian :(
    That's when you hit need and pull up your inventory real fast and destroy the first white shoulderpads you find.

    MrMonroe on
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    Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Thash grape! Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I can tell you now, as a lvl 42 DT that frenzy stance is "please rape me in two hits stance." Its not very practical unless you have a healer and even then you'll still die quite a bit. If I want to do damage I just don't use a stance then if I'm taking a beating I switch to defensive and wait for a heal before switching out or if I don't have a healer I just stay in defensive stance until the fight is over (about 2 hours in defensive stance). In other words, your leach life and other life leaching skills do not make up for the damage mitigation of your armor (which frenzy stances kills).

    Well that's rather disappointing, but not unexpected given what I've seen of Frenzy stance on my Conqueror. I guess Frenzy is only for those times when you're not getting hit at all, so perhaps no stance at all would be preferable for many situations. I'll have to give that a try whenever I get back to my DT.

    Toxic Pickle on
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Frenzy stance is not meant to be fought in for prolonged periods of time, unless you're DPS in a group. The defense penalty is absolutely massive, not at all an even tradeoff for the damage bonus. For maximum effectiveness you need to stance-dance - stay in defensive or not, but swap into frenzy for a couple seconds at a time whenever it's safe or worthwhileto do so. That means when your target is stunned or knocked down, running away, or for the final hit of your most damaging combo.

    Zek on
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    Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yes frenzy is also a good way to agro mobs. Except for you have to make sure to switch in the .3 seconds it takes for someone to kill you.

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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So frenzy is like oldschool deathwish from wow?

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    CrovaxanCrovaxan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Crovaxan wrote: »
    well im barely lvl 18 and i dont know the name of my talismen but it adds 1.5 holy dmg and .5 unholy damage. I was in a group killing some black ones when a better one dropped but my inventory was full so it went to the guardian :(
    That's when you hit need and pull up your inventory real fast and destroy the first white shoulderpads you find.

    well first of all i didn't know it i was full. and i did roll need. i would have won it but i got an inventory full msg so i assumed he got it. That's better then it just being destroyed at least.

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