We did AQ20 in less than 20 minutes last night. We did almost every fight wrong. We pulled the giant earwig while there was still trash in the area, we strait DPSed Buru popping only one egg (and he wasn't even near it), neglected to mana drain Moam, and brought Ossirian to a grand total of one obelisk. Needless to say drunken fun was had by all. I'm think about two or three manning Ony on Tuesday again and then hoofing it over to BWL.
NOTE: I don't think Vael is possible with less than 10 people right now. The fight is designed to kill people, there's no avoiding it. With too few people there's no way to kill him. Also, AQ40 is still a bitch.
Except you can kill Vael far faster than he can kill more than a couple of you.
We did AQ20 in less than 20 minutes last night. We did almost every fight wrong. We pulled the giant earwig while there was still trash in the area, we strait DPSed Buru popping only one egg (and he wasn't even near it), neglected to mana drain Moam, and brought Ossirian to a grand total of one obelisk. Needless to say drunken fun was had by all. I'm think about two or three manning Ony on Tuesday again and then hoofing it over to BWL.
NOTE: I don't think Vael is possible with less than 10 people right now. The fight is designed to kill people, there's no avoiding it. With too few people there's no way to kill him. Also, AQ40 is still a bitch.
Except you can kill Vael far faster than he can kill more than a couple of you.
We tried doing it with 8 people and weren't very successful. He killed me first (on my Surv Hunter) and a Lock after that. At this point we had 4 people (the other hunter DC'd), two tanks, two healers, and a Ret paladin. So with one DPSer left guess who Vael turns to next? Kill a tank you twat! Or the Holy Pally! Fuck! We didn't need them...
EDIT: Wait, we had eight people, I had said 7 before.
We did AQ20 in less than 20 minutes last night. We did almost every fight wrong. We pulled the giant earwig while there was still trash in the area, we strait DPSed Buru popping only one egg (and he wasn't even near it), neglected to mana drain Moam, and brought Ossirian to a grand total of one obelisk. Needless to say drunken fun was had by all. I'm think about two or three manning Ony on Tuesday again and then hoofing it over to BWL.
NOTE: I don't think Vael is possible with less than 10 people right now. The fight is designed to kill people, there's no avoiding it. With too few people there's no way to kill him. Also, AQ40 is still a bitch.
Except you can kill Vael far faster than he can kill more than a couple of you.
We tried doing it with 8 people and weren't very successful. He killed me first (on my Surv Hunter) and a Lock after that. At this point we had 4 people (the other hunter DC'd), two tanks, two healers, and a Ret paladin. So with one DPSer left guess who Vael turns to next? Kill a tank you twat! Or the Holy Pally! Fuck! We didn't need them...
EDIT: Wait, we had eight people, I had said 7 before.
He only uses BA on mana users and tanks so it would probably be a lot easier and consistent if you had dps that didn't use a mana bar.
Tonight we got to C'thun but then people with no situational awareness died in his stomach (sitting in the acid looking around and ignoring the fact you're taking steady damage is not a good idea!) and way too many people died during red beam (melee don't attack him when he's big and red: YOU DIE). It was late for the people on the east coast so the raid was called. when we were looking at C'thun. GBWASFSxvc vxdfsd
Tonight we got to C'thun but then people with no situational awareness died in his stomach (sitting in the acid looking around and ignoring the fact you're taking steady damage is not a good idea!) and way too many people died during red beam (melee don't attack him when he's big and red: YOU DIE). It was late for the people on the east coast so the raid was called. when we were looking at C'thun. GBWASFSxvc vxdfsd
Surprised that people managed to not chain eyebeams and then failed to that.
Eyebeams and shifting position on glare was always the trouble back in the day. Usually if you could get to the point people were in his stomach you were good.
Oh we had the traditional "I didn't realize his aggro range was that large" wipe. We got him to P2 20% with people being terrible so if we had tried again I know we would have done it.
Tonight we got to C'thun but then people with no situational awareness died in his stomach (sitting in the acid looking around and ignoring the fact you're taking steady damage is not a good idea!) and way too many people died during red beam (melee don't attack him when he's big and red: YOU DIE). It was late for the people on the east coast so the raid was called. when we were looking at C'thun. GBWASFSxvc vxdfsd
Surprised that people managed to not chain eyebeams and then failed to that.
Eyebeams and shifting position on glare was always the trouble back in the day. Usually if you could get to the point people were in his stomach you were good.
Well if you don't have 40 people chaining eyebeams is much less likely to happen.
Had an amusing time zerging through gruul's lair. Krosh killed the mage tank and wiped the raid, but by the time he was done killing everyone, HKM was dead. So we left him standing.
As for gruul, someone pulled with like 5 people left outside. Still got him down by growth 8.
Tonight we got to C'thun but then people with no situational awareness died in his stomach (sitting in the acid looking around and ignoring the fact you're taking steady damage is not a good idea!) and way too many people died during red beam (melee don't attack him when he's big and red: YOU DIE). It was late for the people on the east coast so the raid was called. when we were looking at C'thun. GBWASFSxvc vxdfsd
Surprised that people managed to not chain eyebeams and then failed to that.
Eyebeams and shifting position on glare was always the trouble back in the day. Usually if you could get to the point people were in his stomach you were good.
Well if you don't have 40 people chaining eyebeams is much less likely to happen.
On the other hand if you can actually get into his room with 40, he can die without the raid ever seeing a red beam. At least, that's what happened when I ran AQ40 last week.
Well if you don't have 40 people chaining eyebeams is much less likely to happen.
I loved those nights where people would decide to start the fight early just to see how long the chain of dead bodies would extend thanks to that fucking beam. I was one of them.
So, as woltk approaches, we're taking some looks at the way our guild is run. With the addition of deathknights, we're considering revising how we handle the class leader position, but we're really not sure how we want to do it.
So, I know many of you are officers in high level raiding guilds, or even if you aren't, how are things managed?
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
We basically have 4 "Class Leaders" that cover tanks, healers, Physical Dps and Magic Dps. I personally don't even think that is necessary tho.
Val on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
There's no real need for class leaders provided you have knowledgeable officers. To be honest, in a high end raiding guild, most of your players should know enough about their class to qualify for "class leader" themselves, so the only advantage someone might have over another member of the class would be leadership ability, and if they have that ability, you might as well make them a full-fledged officer.
My guild doesn't have set class leaders. We have three different channels we use for specific instruction not clog up raid/vent.
ADTank-Melee characters, dps and tanks.
ADHealer-Guess what goes here?
ADPewpew-All the ranged dps.
If their are new people we explain their jobs if they are specific here. Like on HKM, explaining the hunters where to tank the shaman guy or who gets to play catch the warlock.
In general though, I don't I have seen a real class leader setting since I did 40 mans back as alliance.
So, I did C'thun tonight for the first time in like 2 years. He now shoots lasers out of his ass and if you touch the smoke during the laser phase, you die. Also, new graphic for the laser.
Why'd they bother updating him?
In any event, got my husk of the old god. Would have preferred the godslayer ring for the rare times I arpee, but lost that roll.
So, as woltk approaches, we're taking some looks at the way our guild is run. With the addition of deathknights, we're considering revising how we handle the class leader position, but we're really not sure how we want to do it.
So, I know many of you are officers in high level raiding guilds, or even if you aren't, how are things managed?
Yeah we also generally abandoned class leaders for BC. When you have maybe two druids in a raid, it's silly for one of them to be "leader", especially when they're probably different specs.
A lot of our class chat channels linger, but that's mostly for cliques/socializing, and also buff assignments. We make all the healers and shadow priests join a generic healer channel, where they'd sort out assignments and who's buffing fort and make fun of the asshole warrior who always blames healers for every wipe.
I think organization by role is the way to go now. If I was setting things up fresh, I'd have healer chat, tank chat, melee chat, ranged chat. Since most buffs are now raid wide no one needs to coordinate "priest 1 for 1-2, priest 2 for 3-5, priest 3 shadow prot 1-2," etc. I think having a healer and tank officer/leader would be helpful because someone has to decide healing and tanking assignments, and the actual raid leader may or maybe not be thinking about that every fight if there's other positioning and such to worry about, or he's being lazy.
So, as woltk approaches, we're taking some looks at the way our guild is run. With the addition of deathknights, we're considering revising how we handle the class leader position, but we're really not sure how we want to do it.
So, I know many of you are officers in high level raiding guilds, or even if you aren't, how are things managed?
Yeah we also generally abandoned class leaders for BC. When you have maybe two druids in a raid, it's silly for one of them to be "leader", especially when they're probably different specs.
A lot of our class chat channels linger, but that's mostly for cliques/socializing, and also buff assignments. We make all the healers and shadow priests join a generic healer channel, where they'd sort out assignments and who's buffing fort and make fun of the asshole warrior who always blames healers for every wipe.
I think organization by role is the way to go now. If I was setting things up fresh, I'd have healer chat, tank chat, melee chat, ranged chat. Since most buffs are now raid wide no one needs to coordinate "priest 1 for 1-2, priest 2 for 3-5, priest 3 shadow prot 1-2," etc. I think having a healer and tank officer/leader would be helpful because someone has to decide healing and tanking assignments, and the actual raid leader may or maybe not be thinking about that every fight if there's other positioning and such to worry about, or he's being lazy.
I love tank chat. We're a small group with similar temperaments and we have the least emo chat I've ever seen. It's pretty much us trying to encourage the others to take things.
"Hey Therob, you should grab that..."
"Wouldn't it be a bigger upgrade for you Thoma..."
"Naw, you should totally take it..."
"Maybe one of the druids wants it...."
We actually have two tank chats. The original one, which started to have too many people who never tank or only tank on alts (me), so the actual raid tanks made a second "real" tank chat where they could actually do serious stuff. But I imagine they're plotting all our deaths in there too. Then again our old MT is gone, and she was the worst offender of ordering the other tanks never to taunt when ranged DPS pulls aggro, even if it means causing several deaths.
riz on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
We actually have two tank chats. The original one, which started to have too many people who never tank or only tank on alts (me), so the actual raid tanks made a second "real" tank chat where they could actually do serious stuff. But I imagine they're plotting all our deaths in there too. Then again our old MT is gone, and she was the worst offender of ordering the other tanks never to taunt when ranged DPS pulls aggro, even if it means causing several deaths.
We just don't allow non-tanks in ours. And we use a variation on that policy. If a DPS pulls aggro, it's theirs to play with. If another DPSer pulls aggro off of them? Same thing. But the moment that DPSer dies...we taunt it back. DPSers who can't master basic control should learn their lessons. Healers don't have a choice and there is no need to kill the DPS who do have self-control.
All my hunter chat got used for was Tranq rotations on Mag and what sandwich you made while going afk and auto shooting during Golemagg.
Post MC it became the "nonbuff DPS channel" and was used primarily to coordinate with the rogues on how to best wipe the raid.
When TBC rolled around me and a bunch of buddies had hopped ship to another server, but we still make specific channels and vent private binds so we can continue with our dickery. Or to have hilarity ensue when my hunter buddy, who was quite drunk, tried to use a private bind to ask me if he should MD the warlock in our group (who was being a pissy bitch all night) during the trash clear to HKM only to press the wrong key and have the entire raid hear it over vent. Good times.
We just don't allow non-tanks in ours. And we use a variation on that policy. If a DPS pulls aggro, it's theirs to play with. If another DPSer pulls aggro off of them? Same thing. But the moment that DPSer dies...we taunt it back. DPSers who can't master basic control should learn their lessons. Healers don't have a choice and there is no need to kill the DPS who do have self-control.
It's just sort of tricky to judge whose fault it is. The first person to pull, sure, they should have known better. But sometimes that means they dragged a mob into melee range with someone else who would normally have been fine, but now suddenly they have aggro. Or the ranged offenders feign/iceblock/soulshatter and then healers start getting killed.
I do enjoy letting someone die because they had no restraint on aggro when I'm tanking or healing, though... Having the power to let people who annoy me die on trash is one of the perks of healing.
We just don't allow non-tanks in ours. And we use a variation on that policy. If a DPS pulls aggro, it's theirs to play with. If another DPSer pulls aggro off of them? Same thing. But the moment that DPSer dies...we taunt it back. DPSers who can't master basic control should learn their lessons. Healers don't have a choice and there is no need to kill the DPS who do have self-control.
It's just sort of tricky to judge whose fault it is. The first person to pull, sure, they should have known better. But sometimes that means they dragged a mob into melee range with someone else who would normally have been fine, but now suddenly they have aggro. Or the ranged offenders feign/iceblock/soulshatter and then healers start getting killed.
I do enjoy letting someone die because they had no restraint on aggro when I'm tanking or healing, though... Having the power to let people who annoy me die on trash is one of the perks of healing.
Pfft...If they pull because I moved it close to them then they either should have moved away from me, or they should be in range and therefore watching their aggro. It's kinda like right of way for boats. He who is moving the biggest mass...gets right of way.
I don't know how your crew does it, but we park our tank and their healer/extra dps over by Thrall. We tank him over by the Tauren camp, and from pretty much anywhere within range of him, if you start running when you get Doomed, you should make it to Thrall with time to spare. Run up the ramp, park your butt and die.
People still ocassionally fail at this. Also, at "get on the damned grate if you get parasites during Illidan!".
"This game is hard" is an annoyingly condescending meme in my guild / online elsewhere, and yet it does astound me at times how often people can screw up the simplest of tasks.
Also, explaining year old bosses makes me a sad panda. I mean in general, not to you, V. But I'm beginning to suspect our apps aren't reading squat, and with all the boss information available everywhere, I find it a bit baffling. I'd rather people ask questions than remain silent, but moreso, I'd rather they read up on the encounters (including the thread on our forums where we detail in crayon how the boss works and what we do).
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Well it seems they were tanking him with his back to thrall. Normally I owuld read up on whats going on but I got invited to the raid about 3 minutes before we started and I had no prior warning what so ever.
The next time they send me a random invite I might decline explaining that I need time to read the strat on the boss(es). The same thing happened when I went to SSC. The only things I knew about lurker is what I've read on this forum and the same goes for Hydross. I really don't get invited until about 5 minutes before the event.
And then usually I get "you didn't do such and such on this fight"
/le sigh.
And yeah, I can completely understand the explaining year old bosses thing. Used to have the same thing with guild wars. =P
Anyway, thanks for your input. I'll remember the grate <grins>
Rather than decline raid invites, why not just read up a little on the bosses? Wowhead, Wowwiki, Bosskillers, all these sites and more have information on the bosses, from their abilities and common strategies, to highly detailed (and often class specific) information. Sure, any given raid will probably do things differently based on their experience and composition, but being forwarned is forarmed, or something like that.
I doubt anyone expects you to have every boss ability of every instance memorized, but like studying anything, reading over it once or twice will fill in a lot of what you need to know, and then the particulars are picked up by doing it yourself.
I'm lucky enough to have a second monitor, so I cheated and had Bosskillers up to read/peruse while in the midst of said raids (of course, split attention during the boss fight itself is a bad idea, but it was a handy cheat sheet during the pre-fight setup).
If they keep wanting you back, I say take the opportunities presented to you, if you have the time to tag along. 2 1/2 weeks from now, that content will likely remain untouched for a fairly long while until we've had our fill of WLK content (speaking from experience with TBC, that is. Some guilds and groups do indeed keep running 'old' content for the fun, challenge or experience).
Out of curiosity, what class do you raid with?
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Illidan down - we had been working on him for a week or so before the patch hit, took 4 attempts to down him / get positioning correct for AOE on Phase II. He didn't hit Demon Form when we killed him. Pretty anti-climactic, but honestly I couldn't give a rat's ass. Now on to Archimonde this Tuesday to shut the door on that one, then a few Sunwell raids until LK hits. It's been a wild ride and I'm glad we were able to see our way through the bullshit of the "zomg i r bored have my 2 T6 set bonus it's august see you guys in November" period. We've bolstered our raid with great replacements and are well positioned for the expansion. It'd be awesome to get KJ down before then but given we have like, 3 nights in there before the expac hits, most likely, I doubt we'll do much with him until we're 80 and looking for achievement points.
It was still an epic fight though, Illidan. The rest of BT, however, is a fucking joke and it is a shame that it got nerfed so hard into the ground. The DPS bonus from talents would have likely been enough to push most guilds through BT, but as it stands now it's a loot pinata.
Grats, killing Illidan was definately the highlight of TBC raiding for me. The Sunwell bosses I've seen(3/6) are decent enough fights but they just dont compare to the cool factor of beating the big bad that is Illidan Stormrage(imo).
The rest of BT, however, is a fucking joke and it is a shame that it got nerfed so hard into the ground. The DPS bonus from talents would have likely been enough to push most guilds through BT, but as it stands now it's a loot pinata.
I respectfully disagree. As someone that has been doing BT for over a year now, making it a 2-3 hour clear loot pinata a mere month before we start replacing said gear with dungeon blues in WLK makes sense, and I'm perfectly content to have raid nights fast, easy and fun. It's opened these instances up to possibly hundreds of thousands of people (if not more) who never thought they'd have seen it, given out a few pieces of loot, and will give people at least some small semblance of closure to the expansion before the new one comes out. Illidan's in the trailer, and I'm sure a lot of people would've been very disappointed if they never got to see him (as many won't, nerfs or no).
It's not Karazhan, but it's a significant enough nerf to make the content available to a much wider swath of the playerbase without actually mailing people full T6.
The rest of BT, however, is a fucking joke and it is a shame that it got nerfed so hard into the ground. The DPS bonus from talents would have likely been enough to push most guilds through BT, but as it stands now it's a loot pinata.
I respectfully disagree. As someone that has been doing BT for over a year now, making it a 2-3 hour clear loot pinata a mere month before we start replacing said gear with dungeon blues in WLK makes sense, and I'm perfectly content to have raid nights fast, easy and fun. It's opened these instances up to possibly hundreds of thousands of people (if not more) who never thought they'd have seen it, given out a few pieces of loot, and will give people at least some small semblance of closure to the expansion before the new one comes out. Illidan's in the trailer, and I'm sure a lot of people would've been very disappointed if they never got to see him (as many won't, nerfs or no).
It's not Karazhan, but it's a significant enough nerf to make the content available to a much wider swath of the playerbase without actually mailing people full T6.
I don't know -- I saw Kil'Jaeden last night for the first time. When he pops up out of the ground, I definitely said aloud: "whoa"
I could watch that animation all day long. It's absolutely incredible in motion. Screen shots (like I've taken and posted) really don't do it justice.
My point isn't that people shouldn't be able to see Black Temple - my point is that the nerf is so significant that you really don't capture a lot of the mechanics that made the bosses what they were.
Naj'entus - One Tidal Shield, maybe 3 spines
Supremus - Eh, he was a loot pinata anyway
Akama - See Supremus
Gorefiend - 1 set of constructs popped. 1.
BloodBoil - 1 Fel Rage. 1.
RoS - Don't have to deflect Deaden, fight was over in 4 minutes.
Sharazz - Actually still a tough fight as you need HoD, which means that any guild entering BT for the first time is stuck here, as there's no way you could kit a raid in the time the patch dropped (given how unstable servers have been, at least on our realm) til LK hit to clear her
Council - probably the biggest nerf I've seen. A complete snoozefest from what was a sweet fight
Illidan - still tough, requires good coordination / FR / etc.
So basically what you get is a ridiculously easy first half of an instance that immediately throws up a roadblock for anyone who hadn't seen Sharazz. You can pretty much muscle-through everything up to her, though. But the goal of "hundreds of thousands of people seeing Illidan" is going to be cockblocked by the fact that Mother is a pure SR fight and Illidan requires full FR on two tanks (the latter shouldn't be as much of an issue, but the former would be). So the main beneficiaries are raids who were working on Illidan / Archimonde, like us. And I thank Blizzard for that - we just didn't need that much of a nerf to clear the place, but like you say Forar, I will gladly take it.
FR has been in game since TBC was released, and I don't know about your tanks, but ours are so very sick of heroics, karazhan and ZA, and the literally hundreds of badges they have laying around. No, gearing and training a flame tank (probably the hardest part of the zone) isn't going to be done overnight, but I've seen significantly motivated tanks go from 0 FR to a full set in a week or two.
The first groups to do Mother used a great many AH SR greens, and from what we've seen on the forums, that's still ocassionally put to use to this day.
I really don't think the resist parts of the fights are cockblocks at all. Challenges to overcome, but are offset by literally years of time to build up SR and FR sets.
Now, learning to flame tank is painful on the best of nights, so that I'll agree to somewhat, but that's due to the mechanics and dance that is tanking the flames, rather than the FR required itself.
I'm not saying that a guild of 25 complete noobs with greens and blues can kill Illidan by Friday, but there are plenty of people who've been struggling with T6 content for months or years now who are going to at least see (if not kill) him when they wouldn't have otherwise. That I can applaud.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Posts
Except you can kill Vael far faster than he can kill more than a couple of you.
We tried doing it with 8 people and weren't very successful. He killed me first (on my Surv Hunter) and a Lock after that. At this point we had 4 people (the other hunter DC'd), two tanks, two healers, and a Ret paladin. So with one DPSer left guess who Vael turns to next? Kill a tank you twat! Or the Holy Pally! Fuck! We didn't need them...
EDIT: Wait, we had eight people, I had said 7 before.
He only uses BA on mana users and tanks so it would probably be a lot easier and consistent if you had dps that didn't use a mana bar.
I'm more happy about solo tanking all of ZA. It was fun :P
Surprised that people managed to not chain eyebeams and then failed to that.
Eyebeams and shifting position on glare was always the trouble back in the day. Usually if you could get to the point people were in his stomach you were good.
Well if you don't have 40 people chaining eyebeams is much less likely to happen.
As for gruul, someone pulled with like 5 people left outside. Still got him down by growth 8.
On the other hand if you can actually get into his room with 40, he can die without the raid ever seeing a red beam. At least, that's what happened when I ran AQ40 last week.
I loved those nights where people would decide to start the fight early just to see how long the chain of dead bodies would extend thanks to that fucking beam. I was one of them.
So, I know many of you are officers in high level raiding guilds, or even if you aren't, how are things managed?
ADTank-Melee characters, dps and tanks.
ADHealer-Guess what goes here?
ADPewpew-All the ranged dps.
If their are new people we explain their jobs if they are specific here. Like on HKM, explaining the hunters where to tank the shaman guy or who gets to play catch the warlock.
In general though, I don't I have seen a real class leader setting since I did 40 mans back as alliance.
Why'd they bother updating him?
In any event, got my husk of the old god. Would have preferred the godslayer ring for the rare times I arpee, but lost that roll.
Yeah we also generally abandoned class leaders for BC. When you have maybe two druids in a raid, it's silly for one of them to be "leader", especially when they're probably different specs.
A lot of our class chat channels linger, but that's mostly for cliques/socializing, and also buff assignments. We make all the healers and shadow priests join a generic healer channel, where they'd sort out assignments and who's buffing fort and make fun of the asshole warrior who always blames healers for every wipe.
I think organization by role is the way to go now. If I was setting things up fresh, I'd have healer chat, tank chat, melee chat, ranged chat. Since most buffs are now raid wide no one needs to coordinate "priest 1 for 1-2, priest 2 for 3-5, priest 3 shadow prot 1-2," etc. I think having a healer and tank officer/leader would be helpful because someone has to decide healing and tanking assignments, and the actual raid leader may or maybe not be thinking about that every fight if there's other positioning and such to worry about, or he's being lazy.
Problem solved.
Good bless us, one and all.
I love tank chat. We're a small group with similar temperaments and we have the least emo chat I've ever seen. It's pretty much us trying to encourage the others to take things.
"Hey Therob, you should grab that..."
"Wouldn't it be a bigger upgrade for you Thoma..."
"Naw, you should totally take it..."
"Maybe one of the druids wants it...."
We just don't allow non-tanks in ours. And we use a variation on that policy. If a DPS pulls aggro, it's theirs to play with. If another DPSer pulls aggro off of them? Same thing. But the moment that DPSer dies...we taunt it back. DPSers who can't master basic control should learn their lessons. Healers don't have a choice and there is no need to kill the DPS who do have self-control.
Post MC it became the "nonbuff DPS channel" and was used primarily to coordinate with the rogues on how to best wipe the raid.
When TBC rolled around me and a bunch of buddies had hopped ship to another server, but we still make specific channels and vent private binds so we can continue with our dickery. Or to have hilarity ensue when my hunter buddy, who was quite drunk, tried to use a private bind to ask me if he should MD the warlock in our group (who was being a pissy bitch all night) during the trash clear to HKM only to press the wrong key and have the entire raid hear it over vent. Good times.
It's just sort of tricky to judge whose fault it is. The first person to pull, sure, they should have known better. But sometimes that means they dragged a mob into melee range with someone else who would normally have been fine, but now suddenly they have aggro. Or the ranged offenders feign/iceblock/soulshatter and then healers start getting killed.
I do enjoy letting someone die because they had no restraint on aggro when I'm tanking or healing, though... Having the power to let people who annoy me die on trash is one of the perks of healing.
Yeah, but, I also have to sell that. :P
Pfft...If they pull because I moved it close to them then they either should have moved away from me, or they should be in range and therefore watching their aggro. It's kinda like right of way for boats. He who is moving the biggest mass...gets right of way.
People still ocassionally fail at this. Also, at "get on the damned grate if you get parasites during Illidan!".
"This game is hard" is an annoyingly condescending meme in my guild / online elsewhere, and yet it does astound me at times how often people can screw up the simplest of tasks.
Also, explaining year old bosses makes me a sad panda. I mean in general, not to you, V. But I'm beginning to suspect our apps aren't reading squat, and with all the boss information available everywhere, I find it a bit baffling. I'd rather people ask questions than remain silent, but moreso, I'd rather they read up on the encounters (including the thread on our forums where we detail in crayon how the boss works and what we do).
The next time they send me a random invite I might decline explaining that I need time to read the strat on the boss(es). The same thing happened when I went to SSC. The only things I knew about lurker is what I've read on this forum and the same goes for Hydross. I really don't get invited until about 5 minutes before the event.
And then usually I get "you didn't do such and such on this fight"
/le sigh.
And yeah, I can completely understand the explaining year old bosses thing. Used to have the same thing with guild wars. =P
Anyway, thanks for your input. I'll remember the grate <grins>
I doubt anyone expects you to have every boss ability of every instance memorized, but like studying anything, reading over it once or twice will fill in a lot of what you need to know, and then the particulars are picked up by doing it yourself.
I'm lucky enough to have a second monitor, so I cheated and had Bosskillers up to read/peruse while in the midst of said raids (of course, split attention during the boss fight itself is a bad idea, but it was a handy cheat sheet during the pre-fight setup).
If they keep wanting you back, I say take the opportunities presented to you, if you have the time to tag along. 2 1/2 weeks from now, that content will likely remain untouched for a fairly long while until we've had our fill of WLK content (speaking from experience with TBC, that is. Some guilds and groups do indeed keep running 'old' content for the fun, challenge or experience).
Out of curiosity, what class do you raid with?
It was still an epic fight though, Illidan. The rest of BT, however, is a fucking joke and it is a shame that it got nerfed so hard into the ground. The DPS bonus from talents would have likely been enough to push most guilds through BT, but as it stands now it's a loot pinata.
Hearing Illidan tell me the first time that "I am not prepared" was pretty epic as well, though.
Pretty awesome fight, I gotta say -- even if we only got him down to 48%
I respectfully disagree. As someone that has been doing BT for over a year now, making it a 2-3 hour clear loot pinata a mere month before we start replacing said gear with dungeon blues in WLK makes sense, and I'm perfectly content to have raid nights fast, easy and fun. It's opened these instances up to possibly hundreds of thousands of people (if not more) who never thought they'd have seen it, given out a few pieces of loot, and will give people at least some small semblance of closure to the expansion before the new one comes out. Illidan's in the trailer, and I'm sure a lot of people would've been very disappointed if they never got to see him (as many won't, nerfs or no).
It's not Karazhan, but it's a significant enough nerf to make the content available to a much wider swath of the playerbase without actually mailing people full T6.
I could watch that animation all day long. It's absolutely incredible in motion. Screen shots (like I've taken and posted) really don't do it justice.
My point isn't that people shouldn't be able to see Black Temple - my point is that the nerf is so significant that you really don't capture a lot of the mechanics that made the bosses what they were.
Naj'entus - One Tidal Shield, maybe 3 spines
Supremus - Eh, he was a loot pinata anyway
Akama - See Supremus
Gorefiend - 1 set of constructs popped. 1.
BloodBoil - 1 Fel Rage. 1.
RoS - Don't have to deflect Deaden, fight was over in 4 minutes.
Sharazz - Actually still a tough fight as you need HoD, which means that any guild entering BT for the first time is stuck here, as there's no way you could kit a raid in the time the patch dropped (given how unstable servers have been, at least on our realm) til LK hit to clear her
Council - probably the biggest nerf I've seen. A complete snoozefest from what was a sweet fight
Illidan - still tough, requires good coordination / FR / etc.
So basically what you get is a ridiculously easy first half of an instance that immediately throws up a roadblock for anyone who hadn't seen Sharazz. You can pretty much muscle-through everything up to her, though. But the goal of "hundreds of thousands of people seeing Illidan" is going to be cockblocked by the fact that Mother is a pure SR fight and Illidan requires full FR on two tanks (the latter shouldn't be as much of an issue, but the former would be). So the main beneficiaries are raids who were working on Illidan / Archimonde, like us. And I thank Blizzard for that - we just didn't need that much of a nerf to clear the place, but like you say Forar, I will gladly take it.
Sadly that was our last BT run
FR has been in game since TBC was released, and I don't know about your tanks, but ours are so very sick of heroics, karazhan and ZA, and the literally hundreds of badges they have laying around. No, gearing and training a flame tank (probably the hardest part of the zone) isn't going to be done overnight, but I've seen significantly motivated tanks go from 0 FR to a full set in a week or two.
The first groups to do Mother used a great many AH SR greens, and from what we've seen on the forums, that's still ocassionally put to use to this day.
I really don't think the resist parts of the fights are cockblocks at all. Challenges to overcome, but are offset by literally years of time to build up SR and FR sets.
Now, learning to flame tank is painful on the best of nights, so that I'll agree to somewhat, but that's due to the mechanics and dance that is tanking the flames, rather than the FR required itself.
I'm not saying that a guild of 25 complete noobs with greens and blues can kill Illidan by Friday, but there are plenty of people who've been struggling with T6 content for months or years now who are going to at least see (if not kill) him when they wouldn't have otherwise. That I can applaud.