I think there are several different things going on here, and I admit this wasn't the best way to address them.
I prefer the gameplay of western games, but I have to give credit to Japanese devs that really take things like color into consideration as a whole game "vision" is concerned. You have the ultra-realism of Gran Turismo, and then you have the ridiculous but beautiful color palettes in Final Fantasy. Then you have stuff that's somewhere in between like Metal Gear Solid. But some western devs do really well with colors: Project Gotham, Fable 2, etc.
I just think lots of Western devs don't pay enough attention to color. Fallout 3 I think is just very poorly colored. I understand it's a post-nuclear world, but all they needed to do was stick more closely to the concept art where the color palette is concerned.
Other times, particularly this generation, they seem to be abusing bloom/HDR like it's a bad clothing fad. Grid could look really nice, but when I watch videos of it, I find it to be just visually annoying. It's too bright, it's too blurry, it's too "glowy" etc.
It is not by any means a matter of REALISM. It's a matter of logic, artistic integrity, and CONSISTENCY.
Edit: And I also think western devs are too concerned with poly-counts, having a billion real-time lightsources, superduperultrabumpmapped whatever. I guess you can call me a graphics whore, but it's not in a technological way - rather an artistic way.
If you look at the Fallout 3 concept art, it's damn near black and white. The color palette in the screenshots is far more diverse than the concept pieces they released early on.
I'm saying color is a HUGE aspect of aesthetics that some developers neglect.
Maybe I'm saying games need the equivalent cinematographers or something.
Yeah, you can just tell me that this is just a matter of taste, or that I'm just plain wrong, but I think there are big budget titles out there and that if they were just tweaked color-wise a little bit, ALMOST everyone would agree that it was a huge improvement.
You make it sound like brown is a default color.
You're right - color is a huge aspect of aesthetics, and every developer you pulled your examples from take extreme care in choosing their palette. They don't neglect it.
Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they neglect them.
Also, video games already have cinematographers. Film isn't always bright as hell either:
God, Speilberg totally neglected that shot. Normandy should have deep blue skies and green fields and vibrant reds from the explosions!
No one is going to say that Saving Private Ryan isn't a visual masterpiece of a film.
Some people are going to say that Fallout 3 is pretty fucking ugly and it could be drastically improved with a few tweaks.
Others are going to play [insert game here] a few years from now and laugh at how horribly overdone bloom effects were "back then."
And if I were so wrong, there would be no need for "bullshots" and the color-correction mods that thousands of people download for Bethesda's other games.
Edit: And that fucking "green" pic of Oblivion someone posted earlier has a TweakGuides watermark on it for God's sake.
I think it's a bit early to start whining about the graphics in Fallout 3 considering we've only seen a handful of screenshots.
Dude whatever. We're going to look back in years to come and complain about how dogshit ugly those graphics were for being brown. Brown in a fallout game, of all games.
I actually like how Gears of War looked. It was overwhelming at times, but it's a great idea, and it adds a ton of atmosphere and character to the game.
I think people need to stop complaining about stupid things like colour pallets and ask themselves why Bioshock's death animations are choppy as fuck.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
I actually like how Gears of War looked. It was overwhelming at times, but it's a great idea, and it adds a ton of atmosphere and character to the game.
I think people need to stop complaining about stupid things like colour pallets and ask themselves why Bioshock's death animations are choppy as fuck.
Everytime someone complains about how brown Gears was, I always think back to the underground lava section and the raining section. The screen was filled with brilliant blues and reds in those sections.
EDIT: That is to say, they used color when it's appropriate.
Yup. Oblivion has a pretty amatuerish/poor color scheme. It fails at realism and it fails at fantasy/unrealism/whatever. It looks dull, unnatural, strange, wrong, etc. It looks "pretty good" at best.
The only problem I've ever explicitly had with desaturated/dulling colours is UT3, because the saturation of UT2004 lent much to its magic, I think. A palette of browns and grays seems to be the visual style of a story that wants to be taken seriously (grittily!), and Unreal Tournament should not be that game.
Tzen isn't a bad poster, this is just a slip up. It's not to say there isn't something to talk about here, some games do go too far, there could be some meat when it comes to discussing a lack of subtly and poise in a lot of games, this was just a slip in presentation.
Let's not be too mean.
Also, TSR, I love what you do in threads. Those shots are so goddamn pretty.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
I drastically reduced the colors in the avatar for size. RE4 has spectacular coloring.
I refuse to lock this because a lot of your examples are spot on, even though some of them aren't, and a lot of examples people are posting of good color are actually not.
I'll leave it open until someone figures out what colors should look like.
Now, one game which I agree had bland color choice was assassins creed:
Oddly enough, it DIDN'T rely heavily on browns, but other earth tones. However, just like the various war examples you posted prior, it used it's selected palette purposefully.
It just didn't look every aesthetically pleasing in terms of color choice. But it did look appropriate.
Also note that while bloom looks odd and out of place in still shots, it serves a purpose in motion. You're not supposed to judge bloom from a still shot. Bloom is supposed to be used to simulate blinding light - visual imperfections in the way we perceive color. Static bloom looks unnatural, but bloom in-game doesn't look static. It has a shimmering, moving quality to itself which gives the effect an entirely different quality.
Game Developers to thread: Seriously A Few Of You People Can Bitch About Anything.
edit: that is some unfortunate artifacting right there
In the Uncharted screenshot?
Is this some sort of pun?
I'm not sure if you've looked at it too closely, or perhaps it's just me, but there's a lot of AA and other problems with that screenshot that looks like it's been shrunken from a higher resolution. I've seen that screen before and it doesn't usually look so odd.
edit: GIS disagrees with me. there's something seriously wrong with that, and it's not Uncharted's fault either...
I drastically reduced the colors in the avatar for size. RE4 has spectacular coloring.
I refuse to lock this because a lot of your examples are spot on, even though some of them aren't, and a lot of examples people are posting of good color are actually not.
I'll leave it open until someone figures out what colors should look like.
Different strokes for different folks sounds about appropriate.
This whole thread is a damned "red is better colour than blue, guys!"-discussion.
Someone describe to me accurately why a game with bright colours is somehow superior to one that is not?
Is Wizard of Oz better than Citizen Kane?
What a stupid criteria for measuring the quality of a game - how bright it is. Sheesh.
The_Scarab on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 2008
Edit: Haha Scarab, says the man from a game that I think has an astounding colour palette for an avatar
Personally, I like my games bright or dark and gritty. WW2 should not look bright and happy, while Viva Pinata wouldn't work with Gears of Wars colour scheme.
Posts
not every game has to look happy go lucky as fuck you know
I love you.
If you look at the Fallout 3 concept art, it's damn near black and white. The color palette in the screenshots is far more diverse than the concept pieces they released early on.
You make it sound like brown is a default color.
You're right - color is a huge aspect of aesthetics, and every developer you pulled your examples from take extreme care in choosing their palette. They don't neglect it.
Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they neglect them.
Also, video games already have cinematographers. Film isn't always bright as hell either:
God, Speilberg totally neglected that shot. Normandy should have deep blue skies and green fields and vibrant reds from the explosions!
Some people are going to say that Fallout 3 is pretty fucking ugly and it could be drastically improved with a few tweaks.
Others are going to play [insert game here] a few years from now and laugh at how horribly overdone bloom effects were "back then."
And if I were so wrong, there would be no need for "bullshots" and the color-correction mods that thousands of people download for Bethesda's other games.
Edit: And that fucking "green" pic of Oblivion someone posted earlier has a TweakGuides watermark on it for God's sake.
Because the piano player is under a goddamn spotlight.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It's never too early to whine about something.
If any game should be allowed a subdued color pallate you'd think a more realistic-looking Fallout game would be it.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Dude whatever. We're going to look back in years to come and complain about how dogshit ugly those graphics were for being brown. Brown in a fallout game, of all games.
I think people need to stop complaining about stupid things like colour pallets and ask themselves why Bioshock's death animations are choppy as fuck.
In Rapture, spotlights are actually small suns.
Everytime someone complains about how brown Gears was, I always think back to the underground lava section and the raining section. The screen was filled with brilliant blues and reds in those sections.
EDIT: That is to say, they used color when it's appropriate.
EDIT:
way to neglect your color selection Epic.
So, yeah, that was a mistake to include those shots.
And you pick this screenshot to complain about? REALLY?
Seriously when the game looks better WITHOUT the bloom on, you know there's a problem.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
yes, damn those dull colors. damn them.
Man. Capcom neglecting their color palette all up ins.
I drastically reduced the colors in the avatar for size. RE4 has spectacular coloring.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I know this. RE4 is fucking great. I'm making fun of you.
The only problem is that it's palette makes the game look completely unrealistic. It looks too fantasy like.
I love it's art direction though. I would not enjoy it, however, if it's palette was applied to, say, call of duty 4 or MGS4.
edit: that is some unfortunate artifacting right there
Let's not be too mean.
Also, TSR, I love what you do in threads. Those shots are so goddamn pretty.
I refuse to lock this because a lot of your examples are spot on, even though some of them aren't, and a lot of examples people are posting of good color are actually not.
I'll leave it open until someone figures out what colors should look like.
In the Uncharted screenshot?
Is this some sort of pun?
Oddly enough, it DIDN'T rely heavily on browns, but other earth tones. However, just like the various war examples you posted prior, it used it's selected palette purposefully.
It just didn't look every aesthetically pleasing in terms of color choice. But it did look appropriate.
I'm not sure if you've looked at it too closely, or perhaps it's just me, but there's a lot of AA and other problems with that screenshot that looks like it's been shrunken from a higher resolution. I've seen that screen before and it doesn't usually look so odd.
edit: GIS disagrees with me. there's something seriously wrong with that, and it's not Uncharted's fault either...
edit2: it's the compression.
Different strokes for different folks sounds about appropriate.
This whole thread is a damned "red is better colour than blue, guys!"-discussion.
Someone describe to me accurately why a game with bright colours is somehow superior to one that is not?
Is Wizard of Oz better than Citizen Kane?
What a stupid criteria for measuring the quality of a game - how bright it is. Sheesh.
Edit: Haha Scarab, says the man from a game that I think has an astounding colour palette for an avatar
Personally, I like my games bright or dark and gritty. WW2 should not look bright and happy, while Viva Pinata wouldn't work with Gears of Wars colour scheme.
See?!
SEE!