Quick question, one of the Warrior MTs in my guild brought this up last night:
Deathfrost, worth it to slap on the sword I use for DPSing a boss? I'm thinking of slapping it on a Sun Eater as I don't think Mongoose is really worth it for a sword I rarely bring out, and this can help on those fights where we don't have a warlock to CoT or warrior to thunderclap.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
worth it for sun eater, yes
get any dps warriors to stick it on their offhand too
Quick question, one of the Warrior MTs in my guild brought this up last night:
Deathfrost, worth it to slap on the sword I use for DPSing a boss? I'm thinking of slapping it on a Sun Eater as I don't think Mongoose is really worth it for a sword I rarely bring out, and this can help on those fights where we don't have a warlock to CoT or warrior to thunderclap.
Not really. It doesn't stack with TC or CoT and is inferior to them. The melee proc rate seems to be low and the spell proc seems to have an internal cooldown of ~25 seconds.
Quick question, one of the Warrior MTs in my guild brought this up last night:
Deathfrost, worth it to slap on the sword I use for DPSing a boss? I'm thinking of slapping it on a Sun Eater as I don't think Mongoose is really worth it for a sword I rarely bring out, and this can help on those fights where we don't have a warlock to CoT or warrior to thunderclap.
Not really. It doesn't stack with TC or CoT and is inferior to them. The melee proc rate seems to be low and the spell proc seems to have an internal cooldown of ~25 seconds.
Oh I know it's inferior to those two, that's why I'd be looking to use it in the bolded scenario.
Really, we've been running with one warlock usually (well, sometimes a couple of others but they aren't really that great yet) and I'm not quite sure they'd be up to putting up anything other than CoS.
Our Warriors are all really good, but I'd like to give them some help in case something happens and TC isn't reapplied right away (or even in a case where we don't have a warrior tanking and I'm not tanking for whatever reason).
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Quick question, one of the Warrior MTs in my guild brought this up last night:
Deathfrost, worth it to slap on the sword I use for DPSing a boss? I'm thinking of slapping it on a Sun Eater as I don't think Mongoose is really worth it for a sword I rarely bring out, and this can help on those fights where we don't have a warlock to CoT or warrior to thunderclap.
Not really. It doesn't stack with TC or CoT and is inferior to them. The melee proc rate seems to be low and the spell proc seems to have an internal cooldown of ~25 seconds.
Oh I know it's inferior to those two, that's why I'd be looking to use it in the bolded scenario.
Really, we've been running with one warlock usually (well, sometimes a couple of others but they aren't really that great yet) and I'm not quite sure they'd be up to putting up anything other than CoS.
Our Warriors are all really good, but I'd like to give them some help in case something happens and TC isn't reapplied right away (or even in a case where we don't have a warrior tanking and I'm not tanking for whatever reason).
Really, we've been running with one warlock usually (well, sometimes a couple of others but they aren't really that great yet) and I'm not quite sure they'd be up to putting up anything other than CoS.
From my observation, you can't ever use Curse of Tongues, unless the boss or add heals, and then you really want to use it.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I have no real plan either way, but I suppose another good reason for doing so is that can get into 5-mans easier.
Now I just have to rework my gear, since it's all +strength +agility centered, whereas I need more int and stam to be good with the AoE prot build.
Don't make it sound like such a big deal. Run Scarlet Monastery for the mail gear that drops there and you should be good until you start doing Razorfen Downs, Zul'Farrak, and Mauradon.
Also, you will not be getting any decent +INT Prot gear until around 60 or so, in fact it would be best if you simply avoided trying to get it in order to grind to 58 faster for Hellfire Peninsula, because unless you are decking yourself in epic gear before going to Hellfire, you'll be replacing it within 1-2 levels.
Well I figured I'd at least try and replace my "of the Bear" greens with "of the Gorilla" or "of the Eagle".
I respec back to Prot, and I only have around 14.5k in the exact same tanky gear. I assumed I could just multiply my Holy HP by 1.16 and come up with my Prot HP level, but apparently the talents don't so much stack as multiply one after the other.
Well. There's still base hp to take into account, which the talents don't affect. Just stam.
I'm relatively certain it affects base HP too, given that you still have some amount of stamina naked, and that both talents specifically say "total stamina."
Hamurabi on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Pffft....years of studying under the Monks of Cool have taught me how to be cool without doing a single thing. Now if you'll excuse me, it's time to practice my ayyys.
I respec back to Prot, and I only have around 14.5k in the exact same tanky gear. I assumed I could just multiply my Holy HP by 1.16 and come up with my Prot HP level, but apparently the talents don't so much stack as multiply one after the other.
Shitty.
I may be a bit dense here, but isn't "multiplying one after the the other" one definition of stacking?
jakonovski on
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
So I am thinking of returning to WoW and my main when I left was a 70 protection paladin
So I am thinking of returning to WoW and my main when I left was a 70 protection paladin
Is the thread title an accurate thing?
If you're looking to do 5 mans, heroic 5 mans, and 10 man raids, prot paladins are somewhere between "very good" and "laughably overpowered." A well geared prot paladin can make many fights and instances essentially brainless DPS runs.
If you're looking to raid higher content, prot paladins are viable but kind of fill a niche role, so as long as you're ok with not tanking everything you'll be fine.
If you're looking to PvP in 2v2 or 3v3, don't even bother logging on to a paladin.
If you're looking to DPS as ret, be prepared to get alot of hate unless you find an intelligent raiding guild that will give you windfury. Don't count on ever getting a heroic.
If you want to heal as holy, you're still viable but you're outclassed in every important metric by every other healing class in WoW, so you certainly "can" heal anything, its just generally unpleasant to do so.
PotatoNinja on
Two goats enter, one car leaves
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
Most of that sounds the same as it did a year ago when I quit
Except that last part
Didn't paladins used to be the metric by which all healers were judged?
Most of that sounds the same as it did a year ago when I quit
Except that last part
Didn't paladins used to be the metric by which all healers were judged?
Alot has changed since then.
In PvP, paladins were hit with some big nerfs (blessing of freedom and sacrifice changes being the big ones), while disc priests went from "gimmick" to "every team has at least four."
In PvE (and PvP, to a lesser extent), the illumination nerf from 100% to 60% was a huge cut to mana efficiency. The spirit / int mana regen has left paladins with no recourse other than mana / 5 and pots to regenerate mana, while priests, druids, and shamans have far more attractive options.
Fights are now more focused on reactive heals and AoE heals, as well as healing while multitasking (healing on the move, etc.) Paladins are uniquely incapable of doing any of these things, so while paladins still win at the "who can spam weak heals endlessly on a single target without ever running out of mana" contest, its not really an important metric. If a fight is easy enough that a paladin can just spam FoL, its probably easy enough that mana efficiency isn't an issue at all. I suppose if you're doing a 10 man and you have an amazing tank and terrible DPS, paladins might be pretty important as healers. So paladins do win some healing matchups, just no realistic or important ones.
Protadins are amazing though, if that's your thing (tanking) and you're not looking to rush into Sunwell, you'll be very happy. Protadins are honestly probably overpowered, they trivialize alot of fights and content, and when they're well geared they can pull off some silly things.
PotatoNinja on
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
while disc priests went from "gimmick" to "every team has at least four."
.
Thats because Holy Paladins have no place in pvp now that disc priests took their role of healing tank.
Holy is popular for 5v5, popular as in "You take one with a priest if you're not running Eurocomp."
Holy in PvP is pretty gimp, it's true. Blizzard has kind of had their heads up their ass regarding paladins in PvP since the end of Season 1, it doesn't really bode well for the "e-sport" aspect of WoW.
the trick is to abuse line of sight and constantly run between the door and out of the door so they can't have mana burn LoS and just use consecrate for threat
Little Jim on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
for that whole room, toss your shield at the big guy so that you have initial threat. the only threat that the big guy registers is healing aggro, and your shield should be more than enough to keep him off the healers until he does his first "lol teleport drop aggro" then he'll go after a healer, at which point just taunt
for the small ones, I never had any success with trying to line of sight then, I would just drop a Consecrate, and usually have enough mana for the second, and that was usually enough aggro for the warlocks and mages to drop them.
and worst comes to worst they don't hit hard
but yeah thats my least favourite trash in the whole instance, SO MUCH OF IT
Consider it rumor until it's actually beta-confirmed. And even if it is beta-confirmed, no guarantees of making it to live. But it does sound intriguing.
That's a lot less believable than actual posts from the alpha forum but the only thing on there that seems out of line is a 2 second silence on judgement. Consecration not breaking CC would be :):)
Yeah, I consider the first link more likely than the second one. The first one sounds like actual forum moderator discussion, while the second sounds like a wish list. And, if the first one is to be believed, as of yesterday they hadn't given the actual details out.
Yeah, I consider the first link more likely than the second one. The first one sounds like actual forum moderator discussion, while the second sounds like a wish list. And, if the first one is to be believed, as of yesterday they hadn't given the actual details out.
There's pics from the alpha forum, the text in your link was just a copy of it. The first, anyway.
Posts
Deathfrost, worth it to slap on the sword I use for DPSing a boss? I'm thinking of slapping it on a Sun Eater as I don't think Mongoose is really worth it for a sword I rarely bring out, and this can help on those fights where we don't have a warlock to CoT or warrior to thunderclap.
get any dps warriors to stick it on their offhand too
In other news, a rogue in my guild wants me to gear up and try ret/shs 2s with him. Just how crazy is that idea?
Dual wield shields.
i hear it works pretty well, if not better than mage/ret
Not really. It doesn't stack with TC or CoT and is inferior to them. The melee proc rate seems to be low and the spell proc seems to have an internal cooldown of ~25 seconds.
CAN YOOOOOUUU DIIIIIG IIIIIT?
Oh I know it's inferior to those two, that's why I'd be looking to use it in the bolded scenario.
Really, we've been running with one warlock usually (well, sometimes a couple of others but they aren't really that great yet) and I'm not quite sure they'd be up to putting up anything other than CoS.
Our Warriors are all really good, but I'd like to give them some help in case something happens and TC isn't reapplied right away (or even in a case where we don't have a warrior tanking and I'm not tanking for whatever reason).
Keeping a backup for that might be fine.
From my observation, you can't ever use Curse of Tongues, unless the boss or add heals, and then you really want to use it.
Well I figured I'd at least try and replace my "of the Bear" greens with "of the Gorilla" or "of the Eagle".
I respec back to Prot, and I only have around 14.5k in the exact same tanky gear. I assumed I could just multiply my Holy HP by 1.16 and come up with my Prot HP level, but apparently the talents don't so much stack as multiply one after the other.
Shitty.
I'm relatively certain it affects base HP too, given that you still have some amount of stamina naked, and that both talents specifically say "total stamina."
your naked stamina just adds to it
Pffft....years of studying under the Monks of Cool have taught me how to be cool without doing a single thing. Now if you'll excuse me, it's time to practice my ayyys.
I may be a bit dense here, but isn't "multiplying one after the the other" one definition of stacking?
Is the thread title an accurate thing?
If you're looking to do 5 mans, heroic 5 mans, and 10 man raids, prot paladins are somewhere between "very good" and "laughably overpowered." A well geared prot paladin can make many fights and instances essentially brainless DPS runs.
If you're looking to raid higher content, prot paladins are viable but kind of fill a niche role, so as long as you're ok with not tanking everything you'll be fine.
If you're looking to PvP in 2v2 or 3v3, don't even bother logging on to a paladin.
If you're looking to DPS as ret, be prepared to get alot of hate unless you find an intelligent raiding guild that will give you windfury. Don't count on ever getting a heroic.
If you want to heal as holy, you're still viable but you're outclassed in every important metric by every other healing class in WoW, so you certainly "can" heal anything, its just generally unpleasant to do so.
Except that last part
Didn't paladins used to be the metric by which all healers were judged?
Yeah, for like the first month of Burning Crusade, before they nerfed spiritual attunement.
Alot has changed since then.
In PvP, paladins were hit with some big nerfs (blessing of freedom and sacrifice changes being the big ones), while disc priests went from "gimmick" to "every team has at least four."
In PvE (and PvP, to a lesser extent), the illumination nerf from 100% to 60% was a huge cut to mana efficiency. The spirit / int mana regen has left paladins with no recourse other than mana / 5 and pots to regenerate mana, while priests, druids, and shamans have far more attractive options.
Fights are now more focused on reactive heals and AoE heals, as well as healing while multitasking (healing on the move, etc.) Paladins are uniquely incapable of doing any of these things, so while paladins still win at the "who can spam weak heals endlessly on a single target without ever running out of mana" contest, its not really an important metric. If a fight is easy enough that a paladin can just spam FoL, its probably easy enough that mana efficiency isn't an issue at all. I suppose if you're doing a 10 man and you have an amazing tank and terrible DPS, paladins might be pretty important as healers. So paladins do win some healing matchups, just no realistic or important ones.
Protadins are amazing though, if that's your thing (tanking) and you're not looking to rush into Sunwell, you'll be very happy. Protadins are honestly probably overpowered, they trivialize alot of fights and content, and when they're well geared they can pull off some silly things.
This is my paladin as I left her a year ago
How much more gearing would you say she has to go before enjoying such things as Heroic instances and 10 man raids?
I got pretty burned out trying to get an upgraded +spell damage sword, I think that's why I quit in the first place.
Thats because Holy Paladins have no place in pvp now that disc priests took their role of healing tank.
Holy is popular for 5v5, popular as in "You take one with a priest if you're not running Eurocomp."
Holy in PvP is pretty gimp, it's true. Blizzard has kind of had their heads up their ass regarding paladins in PvP since the end of Season 1, it doesn't really bode well for the "e-sport" aspect of WoW.
for the small ones, I never had any success with trying to line of sight then, I would just drop a Consecrate, and usually have enough mana for the second, and that was usually enough aggro for the warlocks and mages to drop them.
and worst comes to worst they don't hit hard
but yeah thats my least favourite trash in the whole instance, SO MUCH OF IT
I'm scared, and uh, hold me?
Consider it rumor until it's actually beta-confirmed. And even if it is beta-confirmed, no guarantees of making it to live. But it does sound intriguing.
Anyway, I'm very excited and my Paladin might be coming out of retirement for WotLK. Deserves to be the Paladin expansion anyway.
Hopefully beta invites are imminent.
but i think that all looks rock solid to me
There's pics from the alpha forum, the text in your link was just a copy of it. The first, anyway.