Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
I'm tanking our second kill (warrior MT on first kill obviously), any tips? I read through the Maintankadin post by Worldi but wasn't sure if you might have any insights.
Dhalphir on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
I'm tanking our second kill (warrior MT on first kill obviously), any tips? I read through the Maintankadin post by Worldi but wasn't sure if you might have any insights.
I saved my HS to make sure it would be up for shear. Other then that, no.
Thomamelas on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Righteous Defense 10 second cooldown incase anyone missed it.
This looks like a decent PvE ret build. Not a whole lot of talents left over in Ret tree; they really slimmed that down.
Also: Judgements of the Wise giving now 20% of maximum mana to the judging paladin in addition to the Replenishment buff to 10 people == now it's ready. I noticed it before, but they hadn't updated the tooltip to make sure; wasn't sure if it was a new bug or not.
This looks like a decent PvE ret build. Not a whole lot of talents left over in Ret tree; they really slimmed that down.
Also: Judgements of the Wise giving now 20% of maximum mana to the judging paladin in addition to the Replenishment buff to 10 people == now it's ready. I noticed it before, but they hadn't updated the tooltip to make sure; wasn't sure if it was a new bug or not.
Saber, you should either put in four points into imp BoK or none into BoK. Imp BoK is required to get the 10% stats bonus.
This looks like a decent PvE ret build. Not a whole lot of talents left over in Ret tree; they really slimmed that down.
Also: Judgements of the Wise giving now 20% of maximum mana to the judging paladin in addition to the Replenishment buff to 10 people == now it's ready. I noticed it before, but they hadn't updated the tooltip to make sure; wasn't sure if it was a new bug or not.
Saber, you should either put in four points into imp BoK or none into BoK. Imp BoK is required to get the 10% stats bonus.
Would that build be good for occasional pvp?
So with wrath the shockodian is no more?
Brainleech on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
jesus christ
t6 shoulders get
32.98 dodge unbuffed
Dhalphir on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
This looks like a decent PvE ret build. Not a whole lot of talents left over in Ret tree; they really slimmed that down.
Also: Judgements of the Wise giving now 20% of maximum mana to the judging paladin in addition to the Replenishment buff to 10 people == now it's ready. I noticed it before, but they hadn't updated the tooltip to make sure; wasn't sure if it was a new bug or not.
Saber, you should either put in four points into imp BoK or none into BoK. Imp BoK is required to get the 10% stats bonus.
Would that build be good for occasional pvp?
So with wrath the shockodian is no more?
I don't think so. If anything shockadins now got scarier since they can grab JotW. The way to beat a shockadin is outlast them, and now you can't do that.
I don't know what to make of the new Holy tree. It doesn't help that this thread makes me feel like the last healing paladin alive on Earth.
Beacon of Light seems strange. I get the concept, it's just... I guess we're supposed to heal other people while the tank is beaconed, and assume that will take care of things? That'd worry me shitless, I have to focus really hard to know what's the most effective cast to make at any given time while the tank is taking damage. I'm probably a pretty mediocre paladin, but it's hard for me. I guess downranking eradication will make the decision easier, but still...
And now we're expected to Judge, too. Like we had the time to spare. As a single-target healer usually assigned to tanks taking extreme damage, trying to piss around with frequent Judgements mid-battle sounds like something that would get me screamed at.
I don't know. I just don't know.
At least they FINALLY made Holy Shock a worthwhile healing spell. Good christ, that took them a long time.
This looks like a decent PvE ret build. Not a whole lot of talents left over in Ret tree; they really slimmed that down.
Also: Judgements of the Wise giving now 20% of maximum mana to the judging paladin in addition to the Replenishment buff to 10 people == now it's ready. I noticed it before, but they hadn't updated the tooltip to make sure; wasn't sure if it was a new bug or not.
Saber, you should either put in four points into imp BoK or none into BoK. Imp BoK is required to get the 10% stats bonus.
Fixed
I figured that Vindication doesn't work on bosses so it won't be much use in PvE other than soloing in Wrath, same with Eye for an Eye, so i just moved those 4 points into the Imp. Kings talent.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
Meh, with the old trees they needed to spend 11 pts in prot to get it, and 10 of those points were completely wasted in a holy or ret build.
I do like how all 3 trees have their "splash" talents right in Tier 1 now.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
T1: Divine str: 5
T2: Anticipation: 5
T3: Toughness and Imp Righteous Fury: 8
T4: Imp Devo Aura: 3
T5: Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning: 6
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
T1: Divine str: 5
T2: Anticipation: 5
T3: Toughness and Imp Righteous Fury: 8
T4: Imp Devo Aura: 3
T5: Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning: 6
etc.
How can you not avoid Kings?
This is what I have now. I was working backwards when trying to get rid of kings. But with what I have I still can't get rid of it cause I don't want reconing.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
T1: Divine str: 5
T2: Anticipation: 5
T3: Toughness and Imp Righteous Fury: 8
T4: Imp Devo Aura: 3
T5: Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning: 6
etc.
How can you not avoid Kings?
This is what I have now. I was working backwards when trying to get rid of kings. But with what I have I still can't get rid of it cause I don't want reconing.
I don't know what to make of the new Holy tree. It doesn't help that this thread makes me feel like the last healing paladin alive on Earth.
Beacon of Light seems strange. I get the concept, it's just... I guess we're supposed to heal other people while the tank is beaconed, and assume that will take care of things? That'd worry me shitless, I have to focus really hard to know what's the most effective cast to make at any given time while the tank is taking damage. I'm probably a pretty mediocre paladin, but it's hard for me. I guess downranking eradication will make the decision easier, but still...
And now we're expected to Judge, too. Like we had the time to spare. As a single-target healer usually assigned to tanks taking extreme damage, trying to piss around with frequent Judgements mid-battle sounds like something that would get me screamed at.
I don't know. I just don't know.
At least they FINALLY made Holy Shock a worthwhile healing spell. Good christ, that took them a long time.
Beacon of Light, in it's current form, is utter shit. It's not my JOB to heal people in the raid. Sure, I can patch heal from time to time, but when the chips are down, I keep the TANK alive by putting heals on the TANK. Sheath of Light apparently got moved way the hell out of reach for serious Holy Paladins.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
T1: Divine str: 5
T2: Anticipation: 5
T3: Toughness and Imp Righteous Fury: 8
T4: Imp Devo Aura: 3
T5: Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning: 6
etc.
How can you not avoid Kings?
This is what I have now. I was working backwards when trying to get rid of kings. But with what I have I still can't get rid of it cause I don't want reconing.
What's the logic behind skipping reckoning?
I guess mostly out of habit. But also for the same reason why people have never really liked it. It gets worse with better gear. Is there any reason why it should be any different now?
You aren't defining the attack speed decrease from JotJ and the effect of AD as mitigation?
There's 5000 other people to apply JotJ debuff and more effectively so it's a waste of points, and AD is nice but it's also a 5 point dump for not being effective most of the time.
It feels like the Kings change is a weak attempt at filling up more talent points now that a crap load have been freed. I think it kinda sucks for other trees trying to get Kings to have to put 5 points in it. Other than that though I think this has been great changes.
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
T1: Divine str: 5
T2: Anticipation: 5
T3: Toughness and Imp Righteous Fury: 8
T4: Imp Devo Aura: 3
T5: Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning: 6
etc.
How can you not avoid Kings?
This is what I have now. I was working backwards when trying to get rid of kings. But with what I have I still can't get rid of it cause I don't want reconing.
What's the logic behind skipping reckoning?
I guess mostly out of habit. But also for the same reason why people have never really liked it. It gets worse with better gear. Is there any reason why it should be any different now?
It does still have the same issue. But you're comparing a talent that will never be useful for you to one that will be at least marginally useful. It's not an amazing use of a talent point either way but it's better then throwing it away altogether.
It does still have the same issue. But you're comparing a talent that will never be useful for you to one that will be at least marginally useful. It's not an amazing use of a talent point either way but it's better then throwing it away altogether.
True. Which is why I also thought of throwing it in Imp HoJ. At least 1 point there might be useful when I jump in a BG or something once in a while.
Arvo on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
You aren't defining the attack speed decrease from JotJ and the effect of AD as mitigation?
There's 5000 other people to apply JotJ debuff and more effectively so it's a waste of points, and AD is nice but it's also a 5 point dump for not being effective most of the time.
Because there hasn't been a single encounter that has a multiple mobs to be tanked and clearly we can't expect that in the future. And 5/5 for reckoning is silly with the SoV change. You're not gaining enough threat to matter, and the spell cycle we're looking at doesn't leave time to twist the seals to use SoR. You're still much better off with AD then going 5/5 Reck.
You aren't defining the attack speed decrease from JotJ and the effect of AD as mitigation?
There's 5000 other people to apply JotJ debuff and more effectively so it's a waste of points, and AD is nice but it's also a 5 point dump for not being effective most of the time.
Because there hasn't been a single encounter that has a multiple mobs to be tanked and clearly we can't expect that in the future. And 5/5 for reckoning is silly with the SoV change. You're not gaining enough threat to matter, and the spell cycle we're looking at doesn't leave time to twist the seals to use SoR. You're still much better off with AD then going 5/5 Reck.
What does multiple mobs have to do with anything? More reckoning procs? I know. If you're talking about JotJ, that's what 8 target Thunderclap is for. Reckoning also means stacking SoV on multiple mobs is easier.
You aren't defining the attack speed decrease from JotJ and the effect of AD as mitigation?
There's 5000 other people to apply JotJ debuff and more effectively so it's a waste of points, and AD is nice but it's also a 5 point dump for not being effective most of the time.
Because there hasn't been a single encounter that has a multiple mobs to be tanked and clearly we can't expect that in the future. And 5/5 for reckoning is silly with the SoV change. You're not gaining enough threat to matter, and the spell cycle we're looking at doesn't leave time to twist the seals to use SoR. You're still much better off with AD then going 5/5 Reck.
What does multiple mobs have to do with anything? More reckoning procs? I know. If you're talking about JotJ, that's what 8 target Thunderclap is for.
I'm refering to situations with mobs that need to be OTed like FLK. You won't have another tank with you to spam TC or use the druid version.
As a Ret paladin, is there any reason for the Imp Ret aura talent? The only bonus at all I can see is to help the tanks in a raid. Other than that it seems useless. It seems to me they need to combine it with Sanctified Retribution or Swift Retribution.
Edit: It would make more sense to me to just make Imp Ret a 5 point talent at the bottom, and just combine the effects of all 3 into 1 talent.
Well, go on, break it to your tank that you didn't take imp ret aura.
You enjoy those tears, you sick bastard?
JJ on
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Retribution's damage reflection now gains 1 damage every 20.3 spell power according to wowhead comments. Additionally, the next level 76 rank of retribution aura gains 50 damage over the old one (62 base damage before spell damage at level 70, 112 base damage before spell damage at level 80), making the 50% more significant. The talent, at 2/2, would cause retribution aura to do about 100 more damage per reflect. I figure that either stacking with Eye for an Eye in pvp or with threat multipliers for tanks in pve, it's a decent talent for either. I wouldn't call that 100 damage useless.
Posts
I saved my HS to make sure it would be up for shear. Other then that, no.
Also: Judgements of the Wise giving now 20% of maximum mana to the judging paladin in addition to the Replenishment buff to 10 people == now it's ready. I noticed it before, but they hadn't updated the tooltip to make sure; wasn't sure if it was a new bug or not.
Yup, what I end up seeing on their talent calculator is a grey shape with green and yellow cutouts that I can't click on.
Luckily, Wowhead's updated their paladin calculator.
I get the same thing. Thanks for pointing out that wowheads is updated though. Means im not bored on my lunch break =P
Saber, you should either put in four points into imp BoK or none into BoK. Imp BoK is required to get the 10% stats bonus.
Would that build be good for occasional pvp?
So with wrath the shockodian is no more?
t6 shoulders get
32.98 dodge unbuffed
I don't think so. If anything shockadins now got scarier since they can grab JotW. The way to beat a shockadin is outlast them, and now you can't do that.
In that case, 1 in Divine Purpose? I dunno.
Beacon of Light seems strange. I get the concept, it's just... I guess we're supposed to heal other people while the tank is beaconed, and assume that will take care of things? That'd worry me shitless, I have to focus really hard to know what's the most effective cast to make at any given time while the tank is taking damage. I'm probably a pretty mediocre paladin, but it's hard for me. I guess downranking eradication will make the decision easier, but still...
And now we're expected to Judge, too. Like we had the time to spare. As a single-target healer usually assigned to tanks taking extreme damage, trying to piss around with frequent Judgements mid-battle sounds like something that would get me screamed at.
I don't know. I just don't know.
At least they FINALLY made Holy Shock a worthwhile healing spell. Good christ, that took them a long time.
Fixed
I figured that Vindication doesn't work on bosses so it won't be much use in PvE other than soloing in Wrath, same with Eye for an Eye, so i just moved those 4 points into the Imp. Kings talent.
Meh, with the old trees they needed to spend 11 pts in prot to get it, and 10 of those points were completely wasted in a holy or ret build.
I do like how all 3 trees have their "splash" talents right in Tier 1 now.
Will probably just throw it in Imp Judgements
It takes up more points, but they aren't points Prot Paladins are going to be spending anyway. Unless Blizzard completely moves away from AoE damage in a raid, BoSanc is going to be our blessing of choice.
But we can't avoid putting 1 point in it. Which is another beef I have now. I don't want stoisim or guardian's favor.
T1: Divine str: 5
T2: Anticipation: 5
T3: Toughness and Imp Righteous Fury: 8
T4: Imp Devo Aura: 3
T5: Blessing of Sanctuary and Reckoning: 6
etc.
How can you not avoid Kings?
You can put a point in Reckoning.
This is what I have now. I was working backwards when trying to get rid of kings. But with what I have I still can't get rid of it cause I don't want reconing.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVA0ugttIRGoE
Why only 1 point in redoubt? I'd think 3/3 redoubt 3/5 reckoning would certainly be more threat than 1/3 and 5/5
What's the logic behind skipping reckoning?
EDIT: Corrected build http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVA0uGteIRGoE
You had the right idea on reckoning/redoubt breakdown I think.
You aren't defining the attack speed decrease from JotJ and the effect of AD as mitigation?
Beacon of Light, in it's current form, is utter shit. It's not my JOB to heal people in the raid. Sure, I can patch heal from time to time, but when the chips are down, I keep the TANK alive by putting heals on the TANK. Sheath of Light apparently got moved way the hell out of reach for serious Holy Paladins.
I'll be on my Druid. Pce.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
I guess mostly out of habit. But also for the same reason why people have never really liked it. It gets worse with better gear. Is there any reason why it should be any different now?
There's 5000 other people to apply JotJ debuff and more effectively so it's a waste of points, and AD is nice but it's also a 5 point dump for not being effective most of the time.
It does still have the same issue. But you're comparing a talent that will never be useful for you to one that will be at least marginally useful. It's not an amazing use of a talent point either way but it's better then throwing it away altogether.
True. Which is why I also thought of throwing it in Imp HoJ. At least 1 point there might be useful when I jump in a BG or something once in a while.
Because there hasn't been a single encounter that has a multiple mobs to be tanked and clearly we can't expect that in the future. And 5/5 for reckoning is silly with the SoV change. You're not gaining enough threat to matter, and the spell cycle we're looking at doesn't leave time to twist the seals to use SoR. You're still much better off with AD then going 5/5 Reck.
What does multiple mobs have to do with anything? More reckoning procs? I know. If you're talking about JotJ, that's what 8 target Thunderclap is for. Reckoning also means stacking SoV on multiple mobs is easier.
I'm refering to situations with mobs that need to be OTed like FLK. You won't have another tank with you to spam TC or use the druid version.
Edit: It would make more sense to me to just make Imp Ret a 5 point talent at the bottom, and just combine the effects of all 3 into 1 talent.
You enjoy those tears, you sick bastard?