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Call of Duty 5: Medal of Honor 5

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    Shoegaze99Shoegaze99 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Hey, the they had rudimentary machine guns and sexy hot air balloon reconnaissance during the American Civil War.
    I've long thought that this would be a great setting for a well-done, story-focused shooter. There is just enough modernish tech so that you could have a good variety of weapons -- pistols, rifles, shotguns, gatling guns, bow & arrow, dynamite, knife for melee -- and plenty of interesting settings in which to place the action.

    Imagine the story spanning from east to west, from wide open plantations to shootouts in old Southern towns to the wild west. Naturally you've got to get some train action in there, and an air balloon sequence, and something with a horse and wagon. A few large-scale fights with tons of guys blowing one another to shit. Play the story right and you could have enemies ranging from Confederate soldiers to wild west guys to backwoods hillbillies to Native Americans. You could have the dramatic slave rescue sequence and the giant Civil War battle and the fight on top of the train and all that stuff.

    I'd play this.

    Shoegaze99 on
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    Triple BTriple B Bastard of the North MARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Were there really enough weapons in the Civil War-era that didn't take an hour to reload that they could use for a game?

    Triple B on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Spoit wrote: »
    Really though, even though the Pacific is unexplored, italy or Africa would have made much better material for a CoD campaign

    I assume you haven't played CoD2.

    Also, Pacific theater, survival horror, aliens... oh my god they're gonna stumble upon the island in Lost!

    SimBen on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The Henry Rifle was a lever action rifle that used metal casing bullets.

    MagicPrime on
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    Shoegaze99Shoegaze99 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Triple B wrote: »
    Were there really enough weapons in the Civil War-era that didn't take an hour to reload that they could use for a game?
    Sure, and it isn't as if you couldn't fudge the reload time on the other stuff. We're talking about a game, not a simulation.

    Shoegaze99 on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    A breech-load rifle would be like shooting the sniper rifle and reloading after each bullet.

    MagicPrime on
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    TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The Spencer Repeater could be fired every 3 seconds (20 rounds a minute), and it was the fastest rifle I know of. Only used by the the Union also I think.

    TTODewback on
    Bless your heart.
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    TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I would be happy if all you had was a LeMat Revolver.

    Trevor on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    A Western Frontier CoD game would be cool. Winchester Carbines, Colt Peacemakers, Pump-action Shotguns, etc.

    MagicPrime on
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    MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Here is the solution to the "stale" WW2 game...

    Put it completely on the eastern front. Yes, I know it will be shocking not to play as the Americans or British, but here, read this little tract from the wiki:
    It was the largest theater of war in history and was notorious for its unprecedented ferocity, destruction, and immense loss of life. More people fought and died on the Eastern Front than in all other theaters of World War II combined. With over 30 million dead, many of them civilians, the Eastern Front has been called a war of extermination. It resulted in the destruction of the Third Reich and the partition of Germany and the rise of the Soviet Union as a military and industrial superpower.

    How can such an important theatre be continually ignored?

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
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    TrevorTrevor Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Sounds like Red Orchestra would be right up your alley, MistaCreepy.

    Trevor on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Or the Russian missions of CoD2

    "The first man picks up the rifle, the second man follows him!"

    MagicPrime on
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    Shoegaze99Shoegaze99 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The CoD series has had some excellent Eastern Front campaigns. As MagicPrime says, CoD handled it well. I also liked the Russian missions in Finest Hour.

    But yeah, it's a theater that hasn't nearly had the attention it deserves.

    Shoegaze99 on
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    Triple BTriple B Bastard of the North MARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Shoegaze99 wrote: »
    Triple B wrote: »
    Were there really enough weapons in the Civil War-era that didn't take an hour to reload that they could use for a game?
    Sure, and it isn't as if you couldn't fudge the reload time on the other stuff. We're talking about a game, not a simulation.

    I guess. I think it would be pretty cool if they included one of the muskets or something that took forever to reload, for the purpose of acting like something of a super-weapon. Maybe it's a one-shot kill every time or something, but you can only use it once every so often. It would be a cool addition to a game filled with otherwise relatively speedy weapons.

    Triple B on
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    mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I uhh, umm, am just gonna keep playing CoD4. The game is so perfect

    mastman on
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    TTODewbackTTODewback Puts the drawl in ya'll I think I'm in HellRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The super weapon could be the Dictator. Takes forever and a day to deploy. Fires like a 200 pound mortar like a mile high- explodes- and rains down fist sized bullets.
    http://rmc.library.cornell.edu/7milVol/plate75.html
    for reference purposes.

    TTODewback on
    Bless your heart.
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    MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Trevor wrote: »
    Sounds like Red Orchestra would be right up your alley, MistaCreepy.

    Been there, done that.

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
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    mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    unless CoD5 you get to command battleships and fucking do Midway and shell shit with 19 inch guns

    mastman on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Shoegaze99 wrote: »
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Hey, the they had rudimentary machine guns and sexy hot air balloon reconnaissance during the American Civil War.
    I've long thought that this would be a great setting for a well-done, story-focused shooter. There is just enough modernish tech so that you could have a good variety of weapons -- pistols, rifles, shotguns, gatling guns, bow & arrow, dynamite, knife for melee -- and plenty of interesting settings in which to place the action.

    Imagine the story spanning from east to west, from wide open plantations to shootouts in old Southern towns to the wild west. Naturally you've got to get some train action in there, and an air balloon sequence, and something with a horse and wagon. A few large-scale fights with tons of guys blowing one another to shit. Play the story right and you could have enemies ranging from Confederate soldiers to wild west guys to backwoods hillbillies to Native Americans. You could have the dramatic slave rescue sequence and the giant Civil War battle and the fight on top of the train and all that stuff.

    I'd play this.

    Not a civil war fps, but call of juarez doesn't get the recognition it deserves as one of the few decent western shooters (next to gun).

    Spoit on
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    TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Spoit wrote: »
    Not a civil war fps, but call of juarez doesn't get the recognition it deserves as one of the few decent western shooters (next to gun).

    The demo kind of lost me when I found myself platforming. Moving boxes around as if, when I got to Juarez, there would be cake. Also, can someone come up with an idea for a western shooter that doesn't involve some dead asshole conquistador's gold stash?

    I did like shooting bad guys while reciting vengeful passages from an opened bible held in my other hand. That was cool.

    Tiemler on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Tiemler wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Not a civil war fps, but call of juarez doesn't get the recognition it deserves as one of the few decent western shooters (next to gun).

    The demo kind of lost me when I found myself platforming. Moving boxes around as if, when I got to Juarez, there would be cake. Also, can someone come up with an idea for a western shooter that doesn't involve some dead asshole conquistador's gold stash?

    I did like shooting bad guys while reciting vengeful passages from an opened bible held in my other hand. That was cool.

    You are John Marshal, a retired US marshal. Your wife is murdered and your daughter is kidnapped by outlaws employed by a railroad baron. You have to find your daughter and make the baron pay. Wait, that is already a game.

    Couscous on
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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Shoegaze99 wrote: »
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Hey, the they had rudimentary machine guns and sexy hot air balloon reconnaissance during the American Civil War.
    I've long thought that this would be a great setting for a well-done, story-focused shooter. There is just enough modernish tech so that you could have a good variety of weapons -- pistols, rifles, shotguns, gatling guns, bow & arrow, dynamite, knife for melee -- and plenty of interesting settings in which to place the action.

    Imagine the story spanning from east to west, from wide open plantations to shootouts in old Southern towns to the wild west. Naturally you've got to get some train action in there, and an air balloon sequence, and something with a horse and wagon. A few large-scale fights with tons of guys blowing one another to shit. Play the story right and you could have enemies ranging from Confederate soldiers to wild west guys to backwoods hillbillies to Native Americans. You could have the dramatic slave rescue sequence and the giant Civil War battle and the fight on top of the train and all that stuff.

    I'd play this.
    Seriously. It can be done. And I would get it.

    SirToasty on
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    ZilartZilart Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I love WW2-shooters, actually I love WW2-related stuff to be honest. I've been a huge fan of every CoD-game. I thought 3 was just, y'know, meh, but it was decent fun in MP Live. However, I think it's pretty crazy that my grandparents were alive when all of these events we are supposedly playing took place .. My grandma even had a friend that survived the drop on Omaha Beach. We play all these games that are set in the WW2, and I think that distances us from it. I've also read a collection of local reports from where I live during the war. People went out and got shot at by tanks, got into fights with Germans .. D-Day .. Man, it was such a different world. Pure chaos.

    But uhyeah, that new CoD game, yeah. I think it's time that we play as the Germans. When thinking about the second World War, I always ask myself; "I wonder what in the hell those Germans were thinking". How they felt about invading other countries, taking over towns, bombing thousands of civilians etc. The world isn't black and white, and as far as I know, no WW2-FPS have tried to depict the Nazi propaganda, and generally the war from the Axis side. If they could make one that would be realistic and gritty, I would be in heaven. There are so many situations of awesome they could make of this. I thought there would be given some more perspective about this whole thing.

    Ofcourse I understand why this haven't been done - what the Nazis did during WW2 was unforgivable. Still, aren't we ready to see things from their side?

    Zilart on
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    ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    CoD6 needs to be World in Conflict: the FPS.

    Really.

    Just as long as the anti-camping mechanic isn't a neverending wave of enemies, but instead a random airstrike from WiC's selection.

    "ahahaha die you stupid ai bastards!"
    Radio: "INCOMING CARPET BOMBING RUN...wait, detecting heavy artillery barrage as well, GTFO!"

    Arrath on
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    SquabmanSquabman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I wonder what slight change they'll make to the D-Day level so that it's different than the other 20 times we had to play it in every other WWII game.

    "Last time you were in that boat. Now you're in this boat, the one to the left. See? Brand new level!"

    Speaking of CoD4, I rented it just to experience the story, which I thought was real well done. As for multiplayer... I thought it sucked to be honest. Mainly because of that whole level system they had. I, as a brand new player must play with shitty weapons, no perks, and not even a sight to help me aim. Against other players who have the most powerful weapons, more grenades, abilities that let them drop grenades when they die or even still shoot me, and have laser scopes for pinpoint accuracy.

    Yeah... No.

    When I first played Cod4 I played against other newbies mostly as well and almsot always scored in the top 3, even in my first games. I thought it was a really good game because even new players could kill, and anyone with some FPS experience could do very well in, even without all the perks. I mean come on, you start out with an m-16 with a grenade launcher!

    Squabman on
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    TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Zilart wrote: »
    Of course I understand why this haven't been done - what the Nazis did during WW2 was unforgivable. Still, aren't we ready to see things from their side?

    You could take the Sniper Elite approach with an alternate-history angle. Suppose Von Stauffenberg's bomb put Hitler in a coma, and the coup engineered by the Wehrmacht generals lasted a while longer. Early missions might take place on the Eastern Front, but then shift to inside Germany, where open conflict erupts between Wehrmacht and SS troops.

    Or set it in Stalingrad as the German forces inside the city are surrounded and snuffed out. Your objective might be to fight through to the besieged airfield and catch the last flight out, with the intention of keeping your unit alive long enough to surrender to the Western Allies rather than the vengeful Soviets. Being in such a desperate situation and on clearly the losing side might balance out the distaste of playing as the hated fascists.

    I'd still rather see WWI tackled. Rich source material, largely untapped. And an even enough contest that the outcome remained in doubt every single year of the war, right through 1918.

    Tiemler on
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    RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Tiemler wrote: »
    I'd still rather see WWI tackled. Rich source material, largely untapped. And an even enough contest that the outcome remained in doubt every single year of the war, right through 1918.

    Lulz, charge over a trench and die

    Seriously though, I think people underestimate how fun a WWI FPS could be if made by a good dev like IW. A good amount of eastern front warfare with cavalry and whatnot, etc.

    Raslin on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    There will never be a game told from the Nazi perspective.

    The closest one yet, mainstream, is probably Company of Heroes. The Germans in that are called the Wehrmacht, no swastikas appear, no reference to Nazis and you only use them in multiplayer.

    There are far to many restrictions, legal and morally. With the american market being one of the largest in the world and, lets be frank, not exactly up to date on history as other places are, it would be confusing, annoying and pooly sell. Not to mention if some ass at fox news got hold of 'That Nazi propaganda game'

    I mean how many WW2 games actualy feature anything other than Americans? Call of Duty perhaps stands out as one that is at least on the level with accurate history.

    The_Scarab on
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    TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    I mean how many WW2 games actualy feature anything other than Americans? Call of Duty perhaps stands out as one that is at least on the level with accurate history.

    Being inclusive and having troops of various nationalities doesn't make a game more historically accurate. If you're going to jump between different theaters like COD2, it can work. But the average Allied unit didn't see many uniforms besides their own and the Germans once they reached the battlefield. The new Brothers In Arms may feature some of that, with American paratroopers providing infantry support for the British XXX Corps in Nijmegen. That arrangement didn't work out so well, really. Which speaks volumes about how unaccustomed the Allies were to joint operations.

    I love Eddie Izzard, but he's a comedian. It's funny when he says the cameraman in Saving Private Ryan could just pan over to the left a little bit and see British and Canadian troops. But it's not meant to be taken seriously. Juno and Sword beach were an awfully long way down the coast.

    Tiemler on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Arrath wrote: »
    CoD6 needs to be World in Conflict: the FPS.

    Really.

    Just as long as the anti-camping mechanic isn't a neverending wave of enemies, but instead a random airstrike from WiC's selection.

    "ahahaha die you stupid ai bastards!"
    Radio: "INCOMING CARPET BOMBING RUN...wait, detecting heavy artillery barrage as well, GTFO!"

    The neverending enemy mechanic I think works nice. Know why? It works perfectly for an online/system link Counter Op mode.

    The problem in Perfect Dark's Counter Op mode was a) you could see the other player's screen and b) it was pretty easy for him to dispatch you. and 3, sometimes you'd spawn in a locked room, so you either had to wait for the player to show up or take the suicide pill and hope you got a better spawn.

    However, in CoD4's system, you would just endlessly respawn until the 'good guys' team moved forward. So constant action for them, constant action for you.

    FyreWulff on
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    MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    There will never be a game told from the Nazi perspective.

    The closest one yet, mainstream, is probably Company of Heroes. The Germans in that are called the Wehrmacht, no swastikas appear, no reference to Nazis and you only use them in multiplayer.

    There are far to many restrictions, legal and morally. With the american market being one of the largest in the world and, lets be frank, not exactly up to date on history as other places are, it would be confusing, annoying and pooly sell. Not to mention if some ass at fox news got hold of 'That Nazi propaganda game'

    I mean how many WW2 games actualy feature anything other than Americans? Call of Duty perhaps stands out as one that is at least on the level with accurate history.

    The Germans were actually called the Wehrmacht in WW2. Thats not a politically correct game mechanic /historynerd

    I am waiting for the day that I can play a full game from the perspective of a wehrmacht solider and not have it glorify nor condemn him. Its been done in movies (shit... the people who made the movie Der Untergang (Downfall) were German and it is really one of the most even handed depictions of Hitler in all of film. And modern Germans loathe their past and nazism)

    It is a touchy subject but if done tastefully, it could be great. There is a HUGE resource of untapped storytelling there that can only be found just about everywhere except videogames.

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
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    TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I am waiting for the day that I can play a full game from the perspective of a wehrmacht solider and not have it glorify nor condemn him. Its been done in movies (shit... the people who made the movie Der Untergang (Downfall) were German and it is really one of the most even handed depictions of Hitler in all of film. And modern Germans loathe their past and nazism)

    Downfall was great at creating a sense of impending doom. Not of merely those in the bunker, but of a nation led to perdition by a madman. And it showed how Hitler turned on the German people when he realized defeat was inevitable. He wanted to make them suffer, hence the orders to flood the tunnels where civilians were taking shelter, and wreck infrastructure.

    A game with a German protagonist could incorporate these same themes. The orders come down to fight to the last man. Your character, a seasoned veteran, says fuck this, my troops are young men who were pulled out of school and sent to the front lines. They deserve better, and I'm leading them out of this hell.

    Your character doesn't survive, but lasts long enough to see his subordinates escape, presumably to make a new life in the postwar rebuilding.

    No need to promote or glorify a sick ideology. Also, no need to either demonize the soldiers or to go out of your way to make them into Hollywood's "good Germans."

    Tiemler on
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    MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Tiemler wrote: »
    I am waiting for the day that I can play a full game from the perspective of a wehrmacht solider and not have it glorify nor condemn him. Its been done in movies (shit... the people who made the movie Der Untergang (Downfall) were German and it is really one of the most even handed depictions of Hitler in all of film. And modern Germans loathe their past and nazism)

    Downfall was great at creating a sense of impending doom. Not of merely those in the bunker, but of a nation led to perdition by a madman. And it showed how Hitler turned on the German people when he realized defeat was inevitable. He wanted to make them suffer, hence the orders to flood the tunnels where civilians were taking shelter, and wreck infrastructure.

    A game with a German protagonist could incorporate these same themes. The orders come down to fight to the last man. Your character, a seasoned veteran, says fuck this, my troops are young men who were pulled out of school and sent to the front lines. They deserve better, and I'm leading them out of this hell.

    Your character doesn't survive, but lasts long enough to see his subordinates escape, presumably to make a new life in the postwar rebuilding.

    No need to promote or glorify a sick ideology. Also, no need to either demonize the soldiers or to go out of your way to make them into Hollywood's "good Germans."

    My ideal game would be the story of a seventeen year old infantryman who dropped out of high school and rushed to join the army after the invasion of Poland. As the game progresses he is sent to every front as his unit is destroyed, rebuilt and bounced around from confict to conflict in a global theatre culminating either in the final defense of Berlin, or quite possibly during Operation Bagration (which most of the Wehrmacht was destroyed on the eastern front). Im not sure if he should die, flee or be taken prisoner by the soviets. Have him narrarate the entire story and keep it completely on his level. I would have an undying boner if this game was ever actually made.

    MistaCreepy on
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    ilmmadilmmad Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    TTODewback wrote: »
    The Spencer Repeater could be fired every 3 seconds (20 rounds a minute), and it was the fastest rifle I know of. Only used by the the Union also I think.

    Once I read a book whee time-traveling racists gave the Confederates AK-47s to fight the Union.

    They could work that into the game, methinks.

    ilmmad on
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    maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Steampunk Civil War!

    maximumzero on
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    SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Steampunk Civil War!

    I say, you got your bullet in my rib cage!

    SkutSkut on
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    JaramrJaramr Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    Steampunk Civil War!

    I say, you got your bullet in my rib cage!

    Clearly our response to this should be several hundred airships, good sir.

    Jaramr on
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    PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    There will never be a game told from the Nazi perspective.

    The closest one yet, mainstream, is probably Company of Heroes. The Germans in that are called the Wehrmacht, no swastikas appear, no reference to Nazis and you only use them in multiplayer.

    There are far to many restrictions, legal and morally. With the american market being one of the largest in the world and, lets be frank, not exactly up to date on history as other places are, it would be confusing, annoying and pooly sell. Not to mention if some ass at fox news got hold of 'That Nazi propaganda game'

    I mean how many WW2 games actualy feature anything other than Americans? Call of Duty perhaps stands out as one that is at least on the level with accurate history.

    There will be a game told from the Wehrmacht perspective. All it needs is the proper developer.

    Pharezon on
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    MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Pharezon wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    There will never be a game told from the Nazi perspective.

    The closest one yet, mainstream, is probably Company of Heroes. The Germans in that are called the Wehrmacht, no swastikas appear, no reference to Nazis and you only use them in multiplayer.

    There are far to many restrictions, legal and morally. With the american market being one of the largest in the world and, lets be frank, not exactly up to date on history as other places are, it would be confusing, annoying and pooly sell. Not to mention if some ass at fox news got hold of 'That Nazi propaganda game'

    I mean how many WW2 games actualy feature anything other than Americans? Call of Duty perhaps stands out as one that is at least on the level with accurate history.

    There will be a game told from the Wehrmacht perspective. All it needs is the proper developer.

    Your AV and sig are amazing. Rommel FTW.

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    There will never be a game told from the Nazi perspective.

    The closest one yet, mainstream, is probably Company of Heroes. The Germans in that are called the Wehrmacht, no swastikas appear, no reference to Nazis and you only use them in multiplayer.

    There are far to many restrictions, legal and morally. With the american market being one of the largest in the world and, lets be frank, not exactly up to date on history as other places are, it would be confusing, annoying and pooly sell. Not to mention if some ass at fox news got hold of 'That Nazi propaganda game'

    I mean how many WW2 games actualy feature anything other than Americans? Call of Duty perhaps stands out as one that is at least on the level with accurate history.

    The Germans were actually called the Wehrmacht in WW2. Thats not a politically correct game mechanic /historynerd

    I am waiting for the day that I can play a full game from the perspective of a wehrmacht solider and not have it glorify nor condemn him. Its been done in movies (shit... the people who made the movie Der Untergang (Downfall) were German and it is really one of the most even handed depictions of Hitler in all of film. And modern Germans loathe their past and nazism)

    It is a touchy subject but if done tastefully, it could be great. There is a HUGE resource of untapped storytelling there that can only be found just about everywhere except videogames.

    Oh I know they were the werhmacht. And I know for all the evil Nazis there were way more honorable, German Army soldiers who didnt share their ideals.

    But look at it like this - very few people have studied that area of history any more than watching Saving Private Ryan and Enemy at the Gates. Even I, who took an extended option on it at college know very little.

    All Im saying is, you could easily do a game that tells it from the German side. there were decent guys just getting caught up in the whole mess who didnt want to be there.

    But at the end of the day, it would be a game where you win by shooting American soldiers. Extremely hard to pull off. The controvery too would be magnitudes higher than the GTA spin.

    It would take so little for Fox to label it as 'the Nazi game' or whatever and BAM, its stuck.

    So hard to do I honestly dont think any developer has the narrative skill to pull it off.

    The_Scarab on
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