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The NBA (Eddie Griffin killed by a train)

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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    No, Wade's a good player because of the way the refs are calling the game over the past couple years.

    Iverson had his best season last year, at the age of 31. Kobe had an insane year. Pierce had his second best season.

    The gamecalling is extremely slanted towards players like them right now, slashers. None of those players are quite as good as their stats indicate. They're either at the line, or not defended hard for fear of them going to the line.

    Edit: I don't think Wade is bad. I just don't think he is Jordan 2, like the media was calling him last year.

    deadonthestreet on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    No, Wade's a good player because of the way the refs are calling the game over the past couple years.

    Iverson had his best season last year, at the age of 31. Kobe had an insane year. Pierce had his second best season.

    The gamecalling is extremely slanted towards players like them right now, slashers. None of those players are quite as good as their stats indicate. They're either at the line, or not defended hard for fear of them going to the line.

    Edit: I don't think Wade is bad. I just don't think he is Jordan 2, like the media was calling him last year.
    It's true slashers are favored, but that doesn't take anything away from Wade, Kobe, or AI. They'd all be incredible players in any era. AI has been an incredible player for years, never mind the minor point fluctuations, or the fact that he's 31. He's the most incredible player of his generation for my money, viable candidate for top 5 all time, and a dead lock for top 10.

    And the comparison between Wade and Jordan stands in the fact that they both have the deadliest killer instinct in the game. Whether Wade is one Jordan's level is one thing, but their 4th quarter, cold-blooded killer instinct is where the comaprison is apropos. There is no better winner, better 4th quarter player in the game right now than Wade, period.

    Also, Jordan received more than his fair share of love from the NBA refs (I mean, the Bryon Russel push-off, supposedly one of the most iconic shots of his career, is all the proof we really need), which really is just another comparison point.

    Obviously the media is dumb, but really that's just par for the course from sports media. I find it more useful to point out when they actually manage to muster some useful commentary and/or a good comparison.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I just can't wait for the season to start. Oh how I long to hear Mike Gorman yell "Got it!"

    deadonthestreet on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    He's the most incredible player of his generation for my money, viable candidate for top 5 all time, and a dead lock for top 10.
    Y'know, I have been thinking about this, and I can't say I'm with you on this one.

    I don't think he has ever been the best player in the league, even in his MVP year Shaq was better. Chris Webber was probably better. And while he's been around at a very high level for quite some time, I don't see any way he toutches the top 5. And I honestly cannot see him in the top 10 either.

    I mean, the top 4 is something like (in no order)

    Wilt
    Jordan
    Magic
    Bird

    He can't come close to any of them. And I don't see him bearing out

    Bill Russel
    Karl Malone
    Jerry West
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    Shaq
    Havlicek

    And I mean that's just off the top of my head. I mean he is a gritty little guy who can score in bunches. But he isn't one of the all time greats. There are at least a dozen players I'd take to start a team with before him, without even thinking too hard.

    deadonthestreet on
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    VapidVapid Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    yea there is no way Allen Iverson is top 10. However I would put the top 5 as
    Jordan
    Kareem

    Magic/Bird


    Wilt

    Other people that should be considered in the top 10 are as deadonthestreet says (with some changes):

    Russell
    Malone
    Jerry West
    Shaq
    Hakeem
    Oscar Robertson

    Vapid on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    He can't come close to any of them. And I don't see him bearing out

    Bill Russel
    Karl Malone
    Jerry West
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    Shaq
    Havlicek

    And I mean that's just off the top of my head. I mean he is a gritty little guy who can score in bunches. But he isn't one of the all time greats. There are at least a dozen players I'd take to start a team with before him, without even thinking too hard.
    FUCK all of that. He's way the fuck better than Karl Malone. That sorry ass dude rode John Stockton's coat-tails for his whole career. He's also way the fuck better than Havlicek. You telling me AI wouldn't have won TEN championships with Bill Russell as his C? He's better than Jerry West, and minus athletic gifts, he's clearly better than Shaq. The rest of 'em, fine.

    Also, he's been best player in the league numerous times and not won MVP, because he's been mired on a moribund franchise with some of the worst GMs in the league. I mean, he went to the Finals and stole a game from the greased up and fully firing LA Lakers basically single-handedly, on a squad composed almost entirely of journeymen and career bench players. The fact that, given his style of play, he's STILL putting up the best numbers of his career into his 30s is a testament to his heart and grit.

    Anyway, AI is nice. LOCK for the top 10.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I'VE MADE A FANTASY LEAGUE

    League ID # is 38579

    Password is wang.

    Currently I have it set for 10 teams, head-to-head, live draft on Oct. 29th at 5 pm PST. Scoring categories are FG%, FT%, 3PTM, PTS, OREB, DREB, AST, ST, BLK, TO. Everything in this paragraph can be changed if enough people are interested in changing it (minus the head-to-head, really, cuz otherwise I won't bother playing). If more than 10 are interested, GREAT, if not, our rosters should be pretty full of quality players.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2006
    In.

    I think my brother signed up, too.



    Shit, we go head-to-head in the first week in this league as well. :P

    Elki on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Elkamil wrote:
    In.

    I think my brother signed up, too.



    Shit, we go head-to-head in the first week in this league as well. :P
    This league I'm somewhat confident about. My basketball obsession far outstrips the rest of my sports hobbies.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    OP updated, and I'm in.

    deadonthestreet on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    In as well. Not too knowledgable of basketball. This should be interesting.

    gundam470 on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    We have six people thus far.

    That isn't nearly enough.

    Join, people.

    deadonthestreet on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Oh yeah, I gave the league info to a good friend of mine. I haven't checked to see if he's in or not, but he'll be one of the league members. He doesn't post here, although I tried to point him here in case he wanted to.

    Also, if we hit 10, I will expand to 12. I'm not sure how much farther past 12 I want to go, but if we hit 12, we can consider it.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Joined.

    Nice to see that Yahoo's player rankings remain as terrible as ever. I'll make sure to pick Greg Buckner in the 10th while Steve Francis and Channing Frye go undrafted.

    BubbaT on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Allen Iverson and the 76ers lost to Real Madrid in an exhibition today. Also, three slots left and 24 days to go until the LIVE DRAFT! Damn I'm excited. If we hit 10 players, I will open it to 12 as well, so don't be shy about joining. The more the merrier!

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Bump cuz I read Nelly is starting Pietrus at SF and we need more people in the league.

    REGISTER FOLKS, COME PLAY IN THE MILKY NIGHT!

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    VapidVapid Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I just joined.

    Can we make it two utility or two centers? That makes drafting more competitive.

    Vapid on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    First preseason game for the C's tinight.

    I'm pumped.

    deadonthestreet on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    Bump cuz I read Nelly is starting Pietrus at SF and we need more people in the league.

    REGISTER FOLKS, COME PLAY IN THE MILKY NIGHT!

    Who's running at PF then? Dunleavy with PF-eligibility would make a great small-ball player, while Diogu throws another C-eligible into the mix. What's the word in the bay about JRich's recovery?

    Speaking of C-eligibles, both Amare and Okafor had terrible debuts returning from injury-plagued seasons. Okafor managed to foul out in 9 minutes scoreless against Dwight Howard, while Amare picked up 4 fouls and 5 turnovers in 19 minutes against Philly.

    BubbaT on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Rajon Rondo is going to be an all star by 2008.

    deadonthestreet on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Rajon Rondo is going to be an all star by 2008.
    What's that? A Boston fan is optimistic about a recent draft pick and grossly over-inflating their potential? STOP THE PRESSES!

    Oh no wait, actually -- never mind -- this is the same story we've ran the last three or four years, I think we'll skip it this time.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited October 2006
    We have 10!

    Elki on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Elkamil wrote:
    We have 10!
    Dope, I just expanded to 12. Draft on Sunday October 29th, if anyone has problems with that, speak now or forever hold your piece.

    Also, there was discussion of expanding the utility positions. Personally I'm against it as we already have a G and a F as well as the traditional 1-4 positions. That should be plenty.

    If enough people vote for another Util slot, I'll add it. There's no way I'm doing 2 Cs, there's just not enough good Cs in the league. If you want 2, use your Util slot.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    WerdnaWerdna Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    BubbaT wrote:
    celery77 wrote:
    Bump cuz I read Nelly is starting Pietrus at SF and we need more people in the league.

    REGISTER FOLKS, COME PLAY IN THE MILKY NIGHT!

    Who's running at PF then? Dunleavy with PF-eligibility would make a great small-ball player, while Diogu throws another C-eligible into the mix. What's the word in the bay about JRich's recovery?

    Speaking of C-eligibles, both Amare and Okafor had terrible debuts returning from injury-plagued seasons. Okafor managed to foul out in 9 minutes scoreless against Dwight Howard, while Amare picked up 4 fouls and 5 turnovers in 19 minutes against Philly.

    Registered and ready for the draft. BEWARE. I'm all about the 3's, rebounds, and assists.

    As for Amare's weak debut...I'm really nervous how it's going to all unfold this year for him. There are three ways he can go from here on out:
    Moses Malone, Chris Webber, or Pervis Ellison.

    Werdna on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Werdna wrote:
    Registered and ready for the draft. BEWARE. I'm all about the 3's, rebounds, and assists.

    As for Amare's weak debut...I'm really nervous how it's going to all unfold this year for him. There are three ways he can go from here on out:
    Moses Malone, Chris Webber, or Pervis Ellison.
    ^^ G'YEAH that's my BOY!! ^^

    Watch out for the PHX fan y'all, I got 2:1 odds he takes Steve Nash first round. (Not like I didn't take B. Diddy last year).

    Hey -- I just watched POR v. SEA -- I mean I WENT to POR v. SEA (free tix through work!). Man both those teams suck, and Robert Swift roots are showing -- that Bakersfield influence is leaking out his damn head and turning into ink on his skin. Oh -- and he still sucks.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    VapidVapid Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    Elkamil wrote:
    We have 10!
    Dope, I just expanded to 12. Draft on Sunday October 29th, if anyone has problems with that, speak now or forever hold your piece.

    Also, there was discussion of expanding the utility positions. Personally I'm against it as we already have a G and a F as well as the traditional 1-4 positions. That should be plenty.

    If enough people vote for another Util slot, I'll add it. There's no way I'm doing 2 Cs, there's just not enough good Cs in the league. If you want 2, use your Util slot.
    Actually 2 Cs is pretty standard. There are plenty of options for 2 Cs, and if you don't draft them. then you can always trade. It also allows for more strategic drafting, where someone might hoard a bunch of Cs to trade. However, i will settle for another Utility spot instead.

    Vapid on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Vapid wrote:
    Actually 2 Cs is pretty standard. There are plenty of options for 2 Cs, and if you don't draft them. then you can always trade. It also allows for more strategic drafting, where someone might hoard a bunch of Cs to trade. However, i will settle for another Utility spot instead.
    Well so far you're the only one who's expressed interest in it, and I'm still opposed to it, so as a vote it's 1-1. I really think having the G spot and the F spot more than makes up for it. We'll be playing 8 players a night, a standard NBA rotation, and it means you'll have to be judicious about who you start and who you leave on your bench, instead of just grabbing a ton of hunches and hot hands and them throwing them into your line-up to see if they stick.

    Anybody else care to weigh in?

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    Werdna wrote:
    Registered and ready for the draft. BEWARE. I'm all about the 3's, rebounds, and assists.

    As for Amare's weak debut...I'm really nervous how it's going to all unfold this year for him. There are three ways he can go from here on out:
    Moses Malone, Chris Webber, or Pervis Ellison.
    ^^ G'YEAH that's my BOY!! ^^

    Watch out for the PHX fan y'all, I got 2:1 odds he takes Steve Nash first round. (Not like I didn't take B. Diddy last year).

    If someone's going to be a fantasy homer, there are a lot of worse teams to pick all the players from than Phoenix. Like, 29 of them. I know my Clips would get thrashed in Points, Assists, FG%, FT%, 3 pointers and Turnovers. Oh well, at least I'd win Blocks.

    BubbaT on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Up for two more possible members, plus before we draft I'd like to give plenty of people time to ask questions about anything they don't understand. Scoring questions, standings questions, position questions (and further discussion about expanding a C or Util slot), or generally strategy questions will be answered to the best of my ability here.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    Ownage JonesOwnage Jones Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I'll get to see my Lakers live on a regular basis this year.

    I am filled with joy.

    Ownage Jones on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I'll get to see my Lakers live on a regular basis this year.

    I am filled with joy.

    They've been looking pretty good without Kobe in the lineup. I am cautiously optimistic about this season.

    gundam470 on
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    GodGod Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I just joined the league. I'm the Tender ACLs.

    One note to the commish-- are you set on keeping defensive and offensive rebounds as categories? Seems pretty odd and redundant. Though, 9 categories might be weird too... but it would make ties less likely.

    So basically, my proposal is that you consolidate O-rebounds and D-rebounds into "rebounds", and then we think up another 10th category, or decide to stick with 9. Or, maybe you think that the two rebound categories is the best idea ever. Well?

    God on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    Rajon Rondo is going to be an all star by 2008.
    What's that? A Boston fan is optimistic about a recent draft pick and grossly over-inflating their potential? STOP THE PRESSES!

    Oh no wait, actually -- never mind -- this is the same story we've ran the last three or four years, I think we'll skip it this time.
    I dunno dude.

    Check this out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glEaE0wCIL4&eurl=

    Kid's good.

    deadonthestreet on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    God wrote:
    I just joined the league. I'm the Tender ACLs.

    One note to the commish-- are you set on keeping defensive and offensive rebounds as categories? Seems pretty odd and redundant. Though, 9 categories might be weird too... but it would make ties less likely.

    So basically, my proposal is that you consolidate O-rebounds and D-rebounds into "rebounds", and then we think up another 10th category, or decide to stick with 9. Or, maybe you think that the two rebound categories is the best idea ever. Well?

    I've played leagues with both. Each has it's own advantages.

    Going with Total Rebounds - 9-cat scoring is the basic standard for most leagues. Produces less ties.

    Going with OReb and DReb - balances out the small man advantage of 9-cat. Figure that both big men (PFs, Cs) and small men (PGs, SGs) have an equal opportunity to get Points and Turnovers. The other categories break down like this:

    Big Men
    FG%
    OReb
    Dreb
    Blocks

    Small Men
    FT%
    3pters
    Assists
    Steals

    If you only use 1 category for rebounding, then guards have more value because they contribute to more categories than PFs and Cs, 4 to 3 with the other 2 being even.

    BubbaT on
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    VapidVapid Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    BubbaT wrote:
    God wrote:
    I just joined the league. I'm the Tender ACLs.

    One note to the commish-- are you set on keeping defensive and offensive rebounds as categories? Seems pretty odd and redundant. Though, 9 categories might be weird too... but it would make ties less likely.

    So basically, my proposal is that you consolidate O-rebounds and D-rebounds into "rebounds", and then we think up another 10th category, or decide to stick with 9. Or, maybe you think that the two rebound categories is the best idea ever. Well?

    I've played leagues with both. Each has it's own advantages.

    Going with Total Rebounds - 9-cat scoring is the basic standard for most leagues. Produces less ties.

    Going with OReb and DReb - balances out the small man advantage of 9-cat. Figure that both big men (PFs, Cs) and small men (PGs, SGs) have an equal opportunity to get Points and Turnovers. The other categories break down like this:

    Big Men
    FG%
    OReb
    Dreb
    Blocks

    Small Men
    FT%
    3pters
    Assists
    Steals

    If you only use 1 category for rebounding, then guards have more value because they contribute to more categories than PFs and Cs, 4 to 3 with the other 2 being even.
    Yes but most guards don't contribute in all 4 categories while big men are more likeley to contribute in fg% rebs and blocks. Also some big men are good at the small men categories: I.E. Diaw, Miller, Yao, Okur, Dirk, KG. I really don't like the Oreb Dreb thing. Anyways, big men are almost always more valuable because they are a lot rarer, while there are dozens of guards that give you points and 3s.

    Vapid on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    God wrote:
    I just joined the league. I'm the Tender ACLs.

    One note to the commish-- are you set on keeping defensive and offensive rebounds as categories? Seems pretty odd and redundant. Though, 9 categories might be weird too... but it would make ties less likely.

    So basically, my proposal is that you consolidate O-rebounds and D-rebounds into "rebounds", and then we think up another 10th category, or decide to stick with 9. Or, maybe you think that the two rebound categories is the best idea ever. Well?
    I like the OREB and DREB because it forces you to know who's a good offensive rebounder and who's a good defensive rebounder -- they're very different skills, really. There's guys that don't defensive rebound for shit but pull OREBs off hustle, and then other defensive guys with big DREB numbers that don't pull OREBs for shit. Guys like Jamison and Ilgauskus and Dalembert go up in value because they're the premier OREB'ers in the league, but their overall rebounding isn't necessarily the greatest. Guys like Troy Murphy or Ben Wallace or Marcus Camby pretty much ONLY eat defensive glass, meaning that Jamison and Ziggy actually get some value for the informed that Wallace and Camby don't have.

    Also, there aren't ties, you can just go 5-5 in a week. Every stat category counts as a win or a loss, so after every week your record is 6-4 or 7-3 or 1-9 etc. Just beating your one opponent isn't the only goal, you have to consistently beat your opponent in a number of categories.

    For example, last year under these rules I almost never won more than 7-3, because I got most of my production from my guards, meaning I almost ALWAYS lost TOs and FG%, every week. Conversely, I rarely lost 3FGs or ASTs.

    I like it because it creates a balancing act where you have to focus on a range of categories and decide which strengths to play to. I also like the OREB v. DREB because I really think they're separate categories, and require you to know and understand the game better to take full advantage of them.

    edit: and I apologize -- Ben Wallace is a great OREB'er, meanwhile Dirk is one of the worst among REB leaders (hanging out at the 3-pt line too much). But yeah, I think it's fun, anyone else care to weigh in?

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I dunno dude.

    Check this out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glEaE0wCIL4&eurl=

    Kid's good.
    Completely not impressed. The bandwagon will be heading to the shop for repairs sometime around All-Star break. Remember Delonte's triple double game to start last year? Where's his hype machine now? Or how about that Al Jefferson? And you already have another touted first-round pick at the PG spot who's had a monster game here or there himself.

    Seriously, pretty much every guard in the NBA shows flashes like that -- even guys like Mike James look like cold-blooded killers on the right night -- and until we see him produce in the regular season, I'm not going to go be convinced.

    edit: oh, and Marcus Banks -- where is he now?

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited October 2006
    Today, on PTI, it was said that David Stern doesn't want want players to take off their warmup suits on the sidelines before getting into the game. o_O

    I can't find anything about it on the internet, though. Did anybody else hear about this? Also, if it's true, I can't wait for the player who's man enough to strip slowly on the sidelines, and throw his suit into the crowd.

    Elki on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Elkamil wrote:
    Today, on PTI, it was said that David Stern doesn't want want players to take off their warmup suits on the sidelines before getting into the game. o_O

    I can't find anything about it on the internet, though. Did anybody else hear about this? Also, if it's true, I can't wait for the player who's man enough to strip slowly on the sidelines, and throw his suit into the crowd.

    I heard it on PTI as well. The NBA needs Chad Johnson.


    I was ok with the whole suit and tie thing but this is just ridiculous. Just about as ridiculous as the aesthetics of the new official ball.

    gundam470 on
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