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I want a motorcycle (but everyone says I'll die)
Mertzy
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I've had this boyish desire to get a motorcycle for the past two years. Nothing fancy like a crotch-rocket or a harley, just a solid motorcycle.
Like this:
I just dislike the bulkiness of cars. There is too much surrounding me then I actually need. I understand the safety implications of all of this additional steel, but something about it is just...wasteful almost, especially with rising gas prices. The fuel efficiency (so I've come to understand) is what draws me the most lately.
Everyone I talk to, however, has some horror story of a poor motorcyclist who met a horrible end against the pavement. Everyone thinks I am going to die.
Thoughts?
Like this:
I just dislike the bulkiness of cars. There is too much surrounding me then I actually need. I understand the safety implications of all of this additional steel, but something about it is just...wasteful almost, especially with rising gas prices. The fuel efficiency (so I've come to understand) is what draws me the most lately.
Everyone I talk to, however, has some horror story of a poor motorcyclist who met a horrible end against the pavement. Everyone thinks I am going to die.
Thoughts?
THE END.
Mertzy on
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I mean, I'm no biker so I don't know for sure, but I'd guess the kinda person who sees buying a motor cycle as a benefit based on gas mileage isn't the kind of person you see trying to do a wheely and falling on their backs.
Just wear alot of leather and a helmet and you'll be fine.
Perhaps autotrader or something?
There is far less protection against impact. You can hardly transport much beyond yourself. You can't bring along people for the most part. You have little shielding from the elements/weather. You can't store any valuables on a motorcycle when you leave it.
Those are just off the top of my head, reasons why a motorcycle should be a 2ndary mode of transportation - or rather a mode of FUN than anything.
That being said, cycles are pretty dangerous and you have to be much more aware and careful while you're driving.
You need to be willing to accept things like:
* that in an accident against a car, you will be worse off. In an accident against a pedestrian, there's still a good chance that you'll still come off your bike.
* that you must ride defensively on a bike at all times.
* that you must be alert at all times for everything, not just the obvious things like location of cars, or pedestrians. Things like pot holes in the road, the camber (angle) of the road in a turn, painted markings/metal covering on the road - things you don't normally consider when you're in a car because they aren't issues.
If you're willing to accept those things, and the benefits outweigh the risks to you, then by all means get a motorbike.
You can help minimise the risk by things like:
* Get full body protection - I ride with riding boots, riding pants, riding jacket, riding gloves, a helmet and a high visibility vest. The only part of my body that is exposed is the bit under my chin and a bit of my neck. Don't believe that ordinary clothes (e.g. jeans) will protect you in any form at 50km/hr (~30mph).
This is because you'll drop the bike sooner or later, and you'll go sliding along with it. Under this case, the only thing between you and the harsh road will be your gear. Don't skimp on the gear.
* Get a small bike (I have a 250cc bike) as your starting bike. Mine provides me with enough power to get places, but not enough power to kill myself. You'll need to learn how to handle a bike properly - how to counter-steer to turn, how to brake, when to change gears, and so on, and you don't need a 1000cc bike to do that on. The more powerful your bike is, the larger the consequences of any mistake that you make. In addition, 250cc bikes are light enough to pick up by yourself if you drop them (~120kg, ~260 pounds), whereas a 1000cc bike may require 2-3 people to pick up if dropped.
* Go on a course where they'll teach you basic motorcycle handling skills. It's not just "turn the handle bar to turn on a bike", or "I can hit the brakes any time I like on a bike". There are a few things to keep in mind when on a bike, and a course where they get you to do it practically to drive the point home is a lot better than reading about it in a book/forum.
So, after that ramble, it comes down to this:
Do the benefits outweigh the risks to you? There are ways to reduce the risk that I've outlined above, but you've got to accept that the risk will never be zero, and will always be higher than being in a car. If you're comfortable with that, then by all means, go get a bike!
Find an MSF class in your area and show up to it even if that website says its already full because there's always a few people who don't show up and they lottery off those spots. Then see if riding is for you or not.
Obviously the motorcycle safety course is critical but you have to realize that even if you're the safest driver in the world you can't help other peoples actions. Driving is based on trust. You hope other people won't pull out in front of you and won't cut you off but you can never be sure.
Basically it comes down to this: Motorcycle riders aged below 40 are 36 times more likely to be killed than other vehicle operators of the same age.
It's not worth saving a little money every year.
You don't need a training course or do anything beyond pass a written test to get your permit which typically allows you to drive during daylight hours. You need to take a rider test to get a license.
And no one ever dies in a car accident...
You want the bike? Get the bike. Yes, you're taking a calculated risk, and it can end badly, just like driving a car or riding a bicycle or walking down stairs. Take precautions, be prepared, but don't give up something you want because of other people.
Tips from a daily rider:
Don't get an old (pre-90's bike). Moden brakes and control systems are far better than they were in the 80s. If you want that old school look, check out a Triumph scrambler or something.
Google frog toggs. Awesome cheap rain gear.
Take a rider course and practice. Counter-steering is really counter intuitve.
Maintaninence on a motorcycle is way more critical than on a car since if a part fails, you can go down hard. Chains and sprockets wear out. Clutches need to be replaced.
Wear quality gear. Full face helmet, gloves, boots, jacket. I won't lie and say I do ATGATT, but I never, ever, ever skip the hemlet and gloves.
Be smart. I know four people that died while riding and two that almost died. 5 had been drinking before riding, and the 6th hit a deer at ~150MPH.
The danger in motorcycles in the states lies less with the motorcyclists than with the non-motorcyclists with whom you're sharing the road.
Talking to a friend who's an insurance adjuster with a motorcycle specialization pretty much put me off bikes. In car/motorcycle collisions it's rarely the motorcyclists "fault."
Actually motorcycle riders over the age of 40 get into more accidents than any other demographic. Its because a lot of people grew up wanting a bike but didn't have the disposable cash until they reached such an age. The problem is a lot of these guys refuse to go take a class to learn how to ride, buy a bike that's too big for them, and get in over their heads.
So if you really think you might wanna ride, go take an MSF class first. Most people will agree that the stuff you learn in those classes would take around 10 years for the average rider to figure out through trial and error. Anyway, say those classes go well and you decided you like riding, don't buy a crotch rocket, and don't buy anything over 500-600cc for a first bike. Probably the 400cc range would be ideal for a first bike.
That being said, I'll echo what Djeet says -- have you ridden around on a bicycle? Riding a bike is a great way to not only get used to the awareness you need on a motorcycle, but it also gives you some important clues on how other motorists act around non-cars. Here, I'm pushy on my bicycle but motorists respect me, giving me a wide berth and not trying to clip me or do stupid shit. Generally. If I lived somewhere less urban, though? Yeah, I wouldn't be too keen. Yet, even with my positive experiences, I've got a coworker who lives between me and work and who could ride a bike very easily, but opts for the bus instead stating that being on a bike in traffic scares her. She would be a bad candidate for a motorcycle.
I will also echo what was said above about the age of the motorcycle. Modern motorcycles are not necessarily much more expensive compared to an older bike, especially when you factor in repairs and advances in technology. I have a buddy who wanted to get into motorcycles for years, and kept tracking down old beater bikes for a few hundred bucks with the idea of fixing them up. He finally bit the bullet and realized that if he doesn't just buy a relatively new bike, he's never going to have a working motorcycle, and spend $6k or so on a very nice Kawasaki. Sure, it's not a Harley but if you don't *drive* it like a crotch rocket, it's just a motorcycle.
If you don't race your friends and you take some courses on good riding, you'll probably do very well on a motorcycle. IMO, wanting to drive one, and wanting to do it safely, is half the battle. But if you're really unsure, do some bicycling, then test-drive and take some courses around, if you can, and then look into used-but-recent models in your area. If you approach it more like a "scooter with guts," rather than "0-60 in 5 seconds on the expressway, yeehaw!" you'll have much less to worry about. All the people I know here who have motorcycles use them for mostly city driving, and they've never had accidents.
The problem is that risky behaviour is sooo much fun, and anything less than 70 kph feels too slow, even in traffic that is moving at 20 kph.
I am the worlds safest, sanest driver in a car, but on a bike, I don't know. I get the devil in me.
Impulse control is probably 30% of keeping out of accidents (i.e. don't do stupid stuff.) 30% is watching other drivers like a hawk and anticipating their carelessnes, making sure that you aren't in a position where someone else changing lanes blindly while talking on their cell and eating a burger will run you over, etc. Then 40% is just goddamn luck. Other drivers are dicks.
Be carefull, have fun, have a will.
This is exactly what persuaded me to not get a motorcycle as a primary form of transportation. I've been driving a car for about 13 years and have been in 4 accidents. Every single one was the other drivers fault and were in a manner that there was nothing I could have done to avoid them. One of those, when I was about 23, was t-boning a car that pulled out in front of me at 50 mph. That would have most likely killed me if I were riding a motorcycle. It was a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I struck them right in the middle of the vehicle, behind the driver's door. In that situation, I would have been propelled over the handlebars and struck the side of their vehicle, head-first. I was pretty banged up as it was, but I was at least able to go home.
I'm not saying don't ever get one. They can be a lot of fun. But the more you're driving it, the higher your chances of crashing it. It's the same reason I don't like flying. I like to know that if something does go wrong, there's at least a decent chance that I won't be killed.
I went to a Honda dealership and talked with a guy and sat on this and haven't stopped thinking/talking about how awesome it would be.
I want to take that MSF course but they're not offered until late August, so now I'm thinking about who I know that could help me get started, maybe I'll take the class anyway.
P.S. Terrifying:
http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=178
that is a beautiful machine, and from what i hear, shadows are dependable to the point of indestructibility.
I went a little cheaper, for much the same price and got a suzuki marauder 800, 1997. I am in love with it.
Also if you do get a bike and take a deep leaning turn and feel you are over your head your not. Just remember to look where you want to go and let your body and the bike take you their. I don't know your weight and where you ride but I would say maybe looking at a 650 CC bike(used). If you can find a Dual Sport bike like a Wee Storm or similar. I say this type of bike for the fact it can take being drop. Before you say you don't plan on dropping it I would like to say who does. Also be sure to where all the gear road rash blows.
If you get good you can try this for fun [URL="l
tl:dr Biker ranting on safety
I will second all of this (although I don't see a problem with picking one up secondhand to have said fun--used motorcycles can be had very cheaply these days).
There's really nothing that could be done about that. If you're sitting there and a guy is coming up fast you don't really know whether he's going to stop or not. You've got only a second or two to decide if he's going to hit you and in that time you won't have the time to speed up enough to avoid getting hit. You're boned in a car or if you're in a bike. It just hurts more on a bike and is more likely since the guy probably just didn't notice him at all.
meh. Constantly watching your mirrors, andkeeping the bike in gear at least gives you a chance. This guy tried to shift into first to get out of the way, and that cost him the only half second he had.
But on the other hand, I have an uncle who has been riding for longer then I have been alive, and he has only laid a bike down twice, once when he wasn't moving.
wait, what?
Countersteering is the funnest part of riding a bike.
like, it is awesome.
When people go on rides, they try to find curvey roads just so that they can counter steer
Maybe it was all the physics-talk that I barely understood.
Does it happen automatically (muscle memory?) or is it intentional?
at first it is counter intuitive, you need to make a leap of faith to do it. After a while it is second nature.
Basically, at speed, in order to make a left turn (with one hand!) you would take your left arm and push the left handle bar away from you.
At slower speeds, this would cause the front wheel to turn to the right, causing a right hand turn.
At higher speeds, the wheel remains straight, the rotational inertia causes the bike to lean to the left, putting you in a left hand turn.
You don't need to understand physics, just to trust your instructor that yes, you need to try to turn right inorder toturn left.
If the OP wants some data to go with the ancedotes, he can start here with the newer maid study:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/maids_motorcycle_accident_study/index.html
and here for the older hurt study:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/Hurt-study-summary.htm
But that's just fluff. EECC said it already; This comes down to a personal judgement call - either the reward of riding outweighs the risks for the OP, or it doesn't.
And since no one's posted my new fav crash vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpOxMDE0acE
He asked for thoughts, asshole, so riders gave him theirs.
Riding a motorcycle is less convenient (generally) and more dangerous. However, it is a lot more fun and economical. I was riding mine to work every day, but now my wife and I work in the same place so we carpool.
As far as the new vs old argument, I think old bikes can be great. Just don't get one that requires fixing up. My 1975 was pretty much mint when I bought it. Just make sure to check stuff that wears from age (mostly the rubber and plastic stuff, tires, hoses, etc.).
Take the classes. Wear your gear all the time. Drive like everyone else is drunk and actively trying to kill you. Make sure the bike is in good working order every time you're going to ride it. Be aware of the weather. Don't take passengers until you've been able to practice with them. Don't let your passengers not wear gear. Don't take passengers that are dipshits (passengers are cargo, do not try to help me lean the bike).
I recommend taking the MSF class if you're serious about this. Besides all the benefits already stated, it gives you the chance to actually ride a bike and see if it's right for you. You might find that you don't like it.
Good luck!
"Motorcycles can be dangerous. Thoughts?"
"Why, they sure can be!"
"Yeah! totally! I stay away from them!"
"I agree! I won't even look at them!"
That's not a discussion, it's a circle jerk.
I realize that you're probably a little bit retarded, so I'm trying to be polite, but you're making it difficult.
Let me dumb it down a step - OP knows riding is dangerous. Repeatedly posting a TL;DR version of "riding is dangerous" is pointless and unhelpful.
What the fuck was that? Did the car try to do a U-turn one a one-way highway?!
I could understand a quick lane-change but he just kept circling around.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
looked like a blowout to me