I'm not inclined to totally believe that. I'm always sceptical of 'slippery slope' arguments anyway, especially when combined with 'addiction'.
I now whole-heartedly reject the idea that the slippery slope is a fallacy. People in gun control debates frequently say "If you're going to take away guns, why not knives too?" to which their opponents would say "That's just silly. No one wants to take away knives. This is a slippery slope fallacy."
Then the UK banned guns and has started talking about knives in precisely the same way they used to talk about guns. Seriously. It's like they just took all the old articles and did a search-and-replace "guns" with "knives."
The slippery slope only seems silly to us right now because we haven't gotten used to the next step. The step afterwards seems so far away. But once we take that first step the next generation will see the next step as just another incremental change which is just as reasonable as the first one. And they'll think we're silly for trying to resist it.
It's got a fair amount of hyperbole in there, but the thing is, I think he might have a point about the concern about how advertising affects content.
Yep. I think it was the Destruction Derby games that wanted to use real-world cars, but most manufacturers wouldn't let them have their cars in a game that would smash them to pieces.
It's got a fair amount of hyperbole in there, but the thing is, I think he might have a point about the concern about how advertising affects content.
Yep. I think it was the Destruction Derby games that wanted to use real-world cars, but most manufacturers wouldn't let them have their cars in a game that would smash them to pieces.
That's been an issue of contention for a few racing games IIRC.
None so daft as the Mortal Kombat vs DC crossover though, where they actually have to remove fatalities because DC can't have their characters die on screen. Yeah, like they haven't died a hundred times before, each, as it is.
Seriously, fatalities is one of the few points the MK series had going for it, and that gets taken out? Really I think that's less an advertising issue, more a poor selection of franchise for crossover, but still, it's just pretty stupid.
I thought it had more to do with the fact that a lot of DC characters have a code against killing, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have fatalities?
I have seen no-one at all complaining about Snake's iPod, for example.
Then you haven't talked to me about it.
It is INCREDIBLY stupid, and event gets in the way (having to sping a stick to select things. The clickwheel is a non-intuitive interface to begin with, and having to emulate it what I have perfectly good directional controls in front of me is simply retarded.)
I thought it had more to do with the fact that a lot of DC characters have a code against killing, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have fatalities?
The game has fatalities. The DC Heroes just have non-lethal fatalities (called brutalities, or something)
Can we all just accept that Mortal Kombat has always sucked? Cause it has.
Also, ads are distracting. I seriously have trouble focusing on a movie when there's blatant product placement. Watched WALL*E, and one of the scenes that could have been great was ruined by the apple boot sound. Great.
On the other hand, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.
Is there a video game that mocks product placement? I think Munch's Oddessy did, but I can't recall.
I thought it had more to do with the fact that a lot of DC characters have a code against killing, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have fatalities?
The game has fatalities. The DC Heroes just have non-lethal fatalities (called brutalities, or something)
So are you actually allowed to use fatalities on DC characters, or do they just pass out or something lame like that (That was uncalled for! -SNES version)?
I have seen no-one at all complaining about Snake's iPod, for example.
Then you haven't talked to me about it.
It is INCREDIBLY stupid, and event gets in the way (having to sping a stick to select things. The clickwheel is a non-intuitive interface to begin with, and having to emulate it what I have perfectly good directional controls in front of me is simply retarded.)
I hate advertising in games, and I don't own (to my knowledge) any games with ads in them. But product placement doesn't bother me so much. If there was a videogame about my life, and the cutscene camera panned across my office right now, you'd see:
The Dell logo
The Logitech logo
the LaCie logo
the Mac logo
the Apress logo
the APC logo
the Iowa State logo (a few times)
Which is all fine. But if the camera panned in such a way that any of these logos were head on, center screen, that would be retarded. Like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond pulls the disc out of the security system, holds it up so the camera can see the blu-ray logo, and then steals it? Fucking retarded.
I thought it had more to do with the fact that a lot of DC characters have a code against killing, so it wouldn't make sense for them to have fatalities?
The game has fatalities. The DC Heroes just have non-lethal fatalities (called brutalities, or something)
So are you actually allowed to use fatalities on DC characters, or do they just pass out or something lame like that (That was uncalled for! -SNES version)?
No, you can totally rip Superman's head off with the spine hanging down.
I'm not inclined to totally believe that. I'm always sceptical of 'slippery slope' arguments anyway, especially when combined with 'addiction'.
I now whole-heartedly reject the idea that the slippery slope is a fallacy. People in gun control debates frequently say "If you're going to take away guns, why not knives too?" to which their opponents would say "That's just silly. No one wants to take away knives. This is a slippery slope fallacy."
Then the UK banned guns and has started talking about knives in precisely the same way they used to talk about guns. Seriously. It's like they just took all the old articles and did a search-and-replace "guns" with "knives."
The slippery slope only seems silly to us right now because we haven't gotten used to the next step. The step afterwards seems so far away. But once we take that first step the next generation will see the next step as just another incremental change which is just as reasonable as the first one. And they'll think we're silly for trying to resist it.
If you don't know about the subject to which you talk about in the least, then stfu.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
I hate advertising in games, and I don't own (to my knowledge) any games with ads in them. But product placement doesn't bother me so much. If there was a videogame about my life, and the cutscene camera panned across my office right now, you'd see:
The Dell logo
The Logitech logo
the LaCie logo
the Mac logo
the Apress logo
the APC logo
the Iowa State logo (a few times)
Which is all fine. But if the camera panned in such a way that any of these logos were head on, center screen, that would be retarded. Like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond pulls the disc out of the security system, holds it up so the camera can see the blu-ray logo, and then steals it? Fucking retarded.
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Just make the ads make sense contextually, or put them in the options as viewable commercials. Would you watch? Who knows? I might. Could be funny. Probably won't, but they weren't shoving it down my throat.
Ads aren't going to get to the point where they interrupt your game play, at least I don't suspect that they would. That would have a negative impact. But an old fashioned Coca-Cola billboard in Fallout 3 that got mostly screwed up by the bombs? Hey, why not? Developer recoups some cost and we get immersed a little deeper into the world by having familiar products put in front of our face.
Just make the ads make sense contextually, or put them in the options as viewable commercials. Would you watch? Who knows? I might. Could be funny. Probably won't, but they weren't shoving it down my throat.
Ads aren't going to get to the point where they interrupt your game play, at least I don't suspect that they would. That would have a negative impact. But an old fashioned Coca-Cola billboard in Fallout 3 that got mostly screwed up by the bombs? Hey, why not? Developer recoups some cost and we get immersed a little deeper into the world by having familiar products put in front of our face.
Just to play Devil's advocate, I remember the first time I booted up Burnout Paradise, and saw CompUSA ads EVERYWHERE. It wouldn't have really made any difference to me, except for the fact that CompUSA had JUST shut down all of their stores. It kind of does break immersion when something like that happens.
An epidemic of knife crime.
The same phrase has been used to describe gun crime. And in fact the use of the phrase "knife crime" harks back to the gun control debate in which gun crime was set aside as being different from any other type of crime.
Slippery slope is different from discovering you've got a bunch of holes in a bucket, and when you've fixed the biggest hole you then go on to fix a smaller one.
An epidemic of knife crime.
The same phrase has been used to describe gun crime. And in fact the use of the phrase "knife crime" harks back to the gun control debate in which gun crime was set aside as being different from any other type of crime.
My only contention is that the slippery slope has occurred and probably will occur again.
There were always more knife crimes than gun crimes in the UK and before the ban it was still incredibly difficult to get your hands on a gun unless you were a farmer/gamekeeper, the ban on guns has very little to do with the rise of knife crimes.
Slippery slope is different from discovering you've got a bunch of holes in a bucket, and when you've fixed the biggest hole you then go on to fix a smaller one.
It's not any different at all when some people didn't see the holes as a problem in the first place. You say you're patching I bucket, I say you're ruining my colander.
edit: I don't care about what caused the rise in knife crime or even if there was actually a rise in crime. The fact of the matter is that they started out hammering on guns then moved on to knives in spite of the fact that the people hammering on guns said that it would be silly to try to legislate knives in a similar manner. Just because you and I think the next step is silly doesn't stop it from happening.
edit 2: My point being that just because some of the ideas put forth in this thread seem silly to us now that doesn't keep them from being a natural progression from introducing ads into games. I just hope I live long enough to be smug when Master Chief rolls up in his Toyota Warthog.
Slippery slope is different from discovering you've got a bunch of holes in a bucket, and when you've fixed the biggest hole you then go on to fix a smaller one.
It's not any different at all when some people didn't see the holes as a problem in the first place. You say you're patching I bucket, I say you're ruining my colander.
edit: I don't care about what caused the rise in knife crime or even if there was actually a rise in crime. The fact of the matter is that they started out hammering on guns then moved on to knives in spite of the fact that the people hammering on guns said that it would be silly to try to legislate knives in a similar manner. Just because you and I think the next step is silly doesn't stop it from happening.
edit 2: My point being that just because some of the ideas put forth in this thread seem silly to us now that doesn't keep them from being a natural progression from introducing ads into games. I just hope I live long enough to be smug when Master Chief rolls up in his Toyota Warthog.
Oh my bad sorry, I thought you were suggesting that the lack of guns was making knife crimes more prevalent. Seemed to imply it in the ordering of your post is all.
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Unreal Tournament 3 is the worst offender I've seen for this. But at least you can skip them.
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Unreal Tournament 3 is the worst offender I've seen for this. But at least you can skip them.
An epidemic of knife crime.
The same phrase has been used to describe gun crime. And in fact the use of the phrase "knife crime" harks back to the gun control debate in which gun crime was set aside as being different from any other type of crime.
My only contention is that the slippery slope has occurred and probably will occur again.
There were always more knife crimes than gun crimes in the UK and before the ban it was still incredibly difficult to get your hands on a gun unless you were a farmer/gamekeeper, the ban on guns has very little to do with the rise of knife crimes.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
An epidemic of knife crime.
The same phrase has been used to describe gun crime. And in fact the use of the phrase "knife crime" harks back to the gun control debate in which gun crime was set aside as being different from any other type of crime.
My only contention is that the slippery slope has occurred and probably will occur again.
There were always more knife crimes than gun crimes in the UK and before the ban it was still incredibly difficult to get your hands on a gun unless you were a farmer/gamekeeper, the ban on guns has very little to do with the rise of knife crimes.
I don't care about what caused the rise in knife crime or even if there was actually a rise in crime. The fact of the matter is that they started out hammering on guns then moved on to knives in spite of the fact that the people hammering on guns said that it would be silly to try to legislate knives in a similar manner. Just because you and I think the next step is silly doesn't stop it from happening.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
There were always more knife crimes than gun crimes in the UK and before the ban it was still incredibly difficult to get your hands on a gun unless you were a farmer/gamekeeper, the ban on guns has very little to do with the rise of knife crimes.
As I already said; totally irrelevant. It doesn't make a dime's worth of difference to my argument if the gun ban caused knife crime or if it caused rainbows and unicorns to sprout from the clouds.
There were always more knife crimes than gun crimes in the UK and before the ban it was still incredibly difficult to get your hands on a gun unless you were a farmer/gamekeeper, the ban on guns has very little to do with the rise of knife crimes.
As I already said; totally irrelevant. It doesn't make a dime's worth of difference to my argument if the gun ban caused knife crime or if it caused rainbows and unicorns to sprout from the clouds.
edit: Damnit. Too slow again.
Yeah I mean especially as I wrote that because I misread what you meant with your post.
BigDes on
0
ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Unreal Tournament 3 is the worst offender I've seen for this. But at least you can skip them.
The real reason advertising in games suck is that advertisers are usually braindead with their tactics. I would rather skip ads then watch someone who apparently had a bit too much coke try to make me buy something. If it was funny, unique and/or something no so horrid, people might actually not mind so much.
Yesterday I saw a bunch of sumo wrestlers take the shape of an airplane and then fly off the ground. Stupidest shit ever. LENOVO, WTF? Seriously. WTF? Usually the videogame implanted ads are the worst offenders. I've given up on television since most of the ads actually cause me mental pain to watch. I would of stopped watching tv all together if it wasn't for a DVR box.
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Unreal Tournament 3 is the worst offender I've seen for this. But at least you can skip them.
How do you delete the pre-game ads? I must know!
They're usually in a folder called movies or videos in the game's directory. Just find them and delete the files.
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Unreal Tournament 3 is the worst offender I've seen for this. But at least you can skip them.
How do you delete the pre-game ads? I must know!
They're usually in a folder called movies or videos in the game's directory. Just find them and delete the files.
Not ALL of them though, because some of them will be for the actual game. Usually they're pretty obviously labelled, and if you're unsure you can just cut / paste them out of that folder and see if they were the right ones.
Just make the ads make sense contextually, or put them in the options as viewable commercials. Would you watch? Who knows? I might. Could be funny. Probably won't, but they weren't shoving it down my throat.
Ads aren't going to get to the point where they interrupt your game play, at least I don't suspect that they would. That would have a negative impact. But an old fashioned Coca-Cola billboard in Fallout 3 that got mostly screwed up by the bombs? Hey, why not? Developer recoups some cost and we get immersed a little deeper into the world by having familiar products put in front of our face.
Just to play Devil's advocate, I remember the first time I booted up Burnout Paradise, and saw CompUSA ads EVERYWHERE. It wouldn't have really made any difference to me, except for the fact that CompUSA had JUST shut down all of their stores. It kind of does break immersion when something like that happens.
How the hell are ya Evan?!
I see what you're talking about in that case, but it's a few/far between example. That, I think, is more an issue of shitty corporate decision timing on CompUSA's part than anything else. EA, well, I can't really hold them to too much fault, since they already had the money, and going back on the deal (if that was even brought to the table by CompUSA to recoup a little bit of cash) would have lengthened dev time. Minimally, but whatever.
I gotta say, not being able to destroy ads is really annoying. Oh look an ad for a Ford car... FUCK YOU DODGE! *launches rocket at it* ... *Rocket explodes dead center, but doesn't leave a scratch on the ad* Fuck. Ford tough my ass.
Thats what made the Axe Billboard in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory so fun. You HAD to take it out or the light would give you away to terrorists.
Oh, and apparently Nokia makes every device the NSA ever uses.
I gotta say, not being able to destroy ads is really annoying. Oh look an ad for a Ford car... FUCK YOU DODGE! *launches rocket at it* ... *Rocket explodes dead center, but doesn't leave a scratch on the ad* Fuck. Ford tough my ass.
Thats what made the Axe Billboard in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory so fun. You HAD to take it out or the light would give you away to terrorists.
Oh, and apparently Nokia makes every device the NSA ever uses.
i thought he used a P90?
In MP the available weapon is a P90 but in the campaign Sam Fisher's weapon of choice is an FN2000.
I don't mind in game advertising provided it's tasteful and logically placed. In fact, in an environment where one would normally expect to see such advertisements, real life ads can actually increase immersion.
Posts
I now whole-heartedly reject the idea that the slippery slope is a fallacy. People in gun control debates frequently say "If you're going to take away guns, why not knives too?" to which their opponents would say "That's just silly. No one wants to take away knives. This is a slippery slope fallacy."
Then the UK banned guns and has started talking about knives in precisely the same way they used to talk about guns. Seriously. It's like they just took all the old articles and did a search-and-replace "guns" with "knives."
The slippery slope only seems silly to us right now because we haven't gotten used to the next step. The step afterwards seems so far away. But once we take that first step the next generation will see the next step as just another incremental change which is just as reasonable as the first one. And they'll think we're silly for trying to resist it.
0431-6094-6446-7088
Yep. I think it was the Destruction Derby games that wanted to use real-world cars, but most manufacturers wouldn't let them have their cars in a game that would smash them to pieces.
That's been an issue of contention for a few racing games IIRC.
None so daft as the Mortal Kombat vs DC crossover though, where they actually have to remove fatalities because DC can't have their characters die on screen. Yeah, like they haven't died a hundred times before, each, as it is.
Seriously, fatalities is one of the few points the MK series had going for it, and that gets taken out? Really I think that's less an advertising issue, more a poor selection of franchise for crossover, but still, it's just pretty stupid.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Then you haven't talked to me about it.
It is INCREDIBLY stupid, and event gets in the way (having to sping a stick to select things. The clickwheel is a non-intuitive interface to begin with, and having to emulate it what I have perfectly good directional controls in front of me is simply retarded.)
The game has fatalities. The DC Heroes just have non-lethal fatalities (called brutalities, or something)
Also, ads are distracting. I seriously have trouble focusing on a movie when there's blatant product placement. Watched WALL*E, and one of the scenes that could have been great was ruined by the apple boot sound. Great.
On the other hand, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes.
Is there a video game that mocks product placement? I think Munch's Oddessy did, but I can't recall.
So are you actually allowed to use fatalities on DC characters, or do they just pass out or something lame like that (That was uncalled for! -SNES version)?
Man, all shitty comics look the same to me.
Snake shoulda bought a Touch.
The Dell logo
The Logitech logo
the LaCie logo
the Mac logo
the Apress logo
the APC logo
the Iowa State logo (a few times)
Which is all fine. But if the camera panned in such a way that any of these logos were head on, center screen, that would be retarded. Like that scene in Casino Royale where Bond pulls the disc out of the security system, holds it up so the camera can see the blu-ray logo, and then steals it? Fucking retarded.
No, you can totally rip Superman's head off with the spine hanging down.
If you don't know about the subject to which you talk about in the least, then stfu.
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
That reminds me. I hate it when I load up a game for the first time and I have to sit through like, 5 or 6 separate company logos, powered by Intel, Nvidia the way it's meant to be played, gah. Some companies allow you to skip them, others don't.
I'm just glad that for most games you can simply delete those cutscenes and save yourself a minute of waiting before you can even click a menu.
Ads aren't going to get to the point where they interrupt your game play, at least I don't suspect that they would. That would have a negative impact. But an old fashioned Coca-Cola billboard in Fallout 3 that got mostly screwed up by the bombs? Hey, why not? Developer recoups some cost and we get immersed a little deeper into the world by having familiar products put in front of our face.
Just to play Devil's advocate, I remember the first time I booted up Burnout Paradise, and saw CompUSA ads EVERYWHERE. It wouldn't have really made any difference to me, except for the fact that CompUSA had JUST shut down all of their stores. It kind of does break immersion when something like that happens.
I really don't want this to turn into something about guns, but my contention that the slippery slope has been demonstrated in real life is accurate.
UK gun ban
Depending on how you define 'ban.' It's still technically possible to obtain a gun, but prohibitively difficult. Pistols are right out.
If you carry a knife you are more likely to be stabbed yourself.
Echoes of the "You are likely to be shot with your own gun."
An epidemic of knife crime.
The same phrase has been used to describe gun crime. And in fact the use of the phrase "knife crime" harks back to the gun control debate in which gun crime was set aside as being different from any other type of crime.
Stabbings are the motivation for new anti-knife measures
Just as with guns, high profile crimes raise support for strict measures against crimes committed with knives.
I DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT GUN CONTROL.
My only contention is that the slippery slope has occurred and probably will occur again.
0431-6094-6446-7088
There were always more knife crimes than gun crimes in the UK and before the ban it was still incredibly difficult to get your hands on a gun unless you were a farmer/gamekeeper, the ban on guns has very little to do with the rise of knife crimes.
It's not any different at all when some people didn't see the holes as a problem in the first place. You say you're patching I bucket, I say you're ruining my colander.
edit: I don't care about what caused the rise in knife crime or even if there was actually a rise in crime. The fact of the matter is that they started out hammering on guns then moved on to knives in spite of the fact that the people hammering on guns said that it would be silly to try to legislate knives in a similar manner. Just because you and I think the next step is silly doesn't stop it from happening.
edit 2: My point being that just because some of the ideas put forth in this thread seem silly to us now that doesn't keep them from being a natural progression from introducing ads into games. I just hope I live long enough to be smug when Master Chief rolls up in his Toyota Warthog.
0431-6094-6446-7088
as long as it reduces the price of the game it is in in some way.
For example; Advertising in menus and whatnot in MMO's/small render of a commercial before you log in = Reduced monthly cost
I'd be 100% fine with that.
Unreal Tournament 3 is the worst offender I've seen for this. But at least you can skip them.
How do you delete the pre-game ads? I must know!
0431-6094-6446-7088
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
edit: Damnit. Too slow again.
0431-6094-6446-7088
Yeah I mean especially as I wrote that because I misread what you meant with your post.
The real reason advertising in games suck is that advertisers are usually braindead with their tactics. I would rather skip ads then watch someone who apparently had a bit too much coke try to make me buy something. If it was funny, unique and/or something no so horrid, people might actually not mind so much.
Yesterday I saw a bunch of sumo wrestlers take the shape of an airplane and then fly off the ground. Stupidest shit ever. LENOVO, WTF? Seriously. WTF? Usually the videogame implanted ads are the worst offenders. I've given up on television since most of the ads actually cause me mental pain to watch. I would of stopped watching tv all together if it wasn't for a DVR box.
They're usually in a folder called movies or videos in the game's directory. Just find them and delete the files.
Not ALL of them though, because some of them will be for the actual game. Usually they're pretty obviously labelled, and if you're unsure you can just cut / paste them out of that folder and see if they were the right ones.
How the hell are ya Evan?!
I see what you're talking about in that case, but it's a few/far between example. That, I think, is more an issue of shitty corporate decision timing on CompUSA's part than anything else. EA, well, I can't really hold them to too much fault, since they already had the money, and going back on the deal (if that was even brought to the table by CompUSA to recoup a little bit of cash) would have lengthened dev time. Minimally, but whatever.
Advertising gone wrong. Love it.
Yeah, that'd be acceptable but we both know that's very unlikely to happen.
What is more likely is that they'll just put the ads in there and charge just as much as they usually would (or more - inflation you know).
i thought he used a P90?
In MP the available weapon is a P90 but in the campaign Sam Fisher's weapon of choice is an FN2000.