About the only thing I can think of that would make the 'persistent armies' thing work in MP for me is if it was point buy. So everyone would start out with x points, and if you want to spend those points on wargear that you've unlocked or more troops, or better troops, or special leaders, etc.
Then they can balance around point costs (this type of armor costs x, this amount of dps costs y, this movement costs z, total cost of the troop is x+y+z)
Seeing a guy with super mega guns versus my normal guns makes me think "Well, fuck this, people that play more get the bonuses and fuck that shit"
To add to Goombas quote, it would also be a terrible idea for an RTS. Absolutely terrible. You can't overcome better troops easily in an RTS compared to a better gun in an FPS like CoD4. I can play CoD4 out of the box and still kill people with fancy guns simply because they often suck no matter what gun they have. In an RTS, better troops are better troops period and you don't need a lot of effort to make them more effective than your opponents in an RTS. So this would be a terrible idea and I would be disappointed in relic did something like that.
To begin with, lewt drops haven't even been confirmed for multi. But let's assume they are.
I seriously doubt that Relic are going to make drops some kind of overpowered crap that'll make your squads more deadly. Odds are that it'll either be stuff that's either there just for the sake of customising your visual looks, or that it's going to be stuff that gives you options in how you approach a game, and by choosing one set of gear you're fore-going another option for your squad. Sort of like a specific implementation of the company commander trees in CoH.
@ Prosthetic Conscience:
Seriously dude, unless you post something more than "but he had tanks out fast!", how can you expect to suddenly shout imbalance? I can just as easily hop into a game of Starcraft, get destroyed by a swarm in a few minutes, and then come back to the thread and cry imba, nobody's going to listen or care there either.
Here's some advice. Instead of saying how imbalanced the game clearly is (because, you know, it couldn't possibly be that this guy was using strategies that you weren't even considering or just more skilled), try watching the replay of what he did. Odds are that if he's got armour coming out at you as his first threat, he's sacrificed a LOT to get there, meaning there would've been some pretty heavy openings in his strategy before he could attack you (unless you were giving him an easy ride across the rest of the map). Heck, POST YOUR REPLAY HERE. We'd be happy to help, Kinderparty is one of the top CoH players, he can easily give you solid advice on what to do.
Just don't come here crying "imba imba" when you got defeated faster than you thought you would be higher tier weapons than you were expecting. There really isn't any response we can give to that just by itself.
Seriously dude, unless you post something more than "but he had tanks out fast!", how can you expect to suddenly shout imbalance? I can just as easily hop into a game of Starcraft, get destroyed by a swarm in a few minutes, and then come back to the thread and cry imba, nobody's going to listen or care there either.
Here's some advice. Instead of saying how imbalanced the game clearly is (because, you know, it couldn't possibly be that this guy was using strategies that you weren't even considering or just more skilled), try watching the replay of what he did. Odds are that if he's got armour coming out you as his first threat, he's sacrificed a LOT to get there. Heck, POST YOUR REPLAY HERE. We'd be happy to help, Kinderparty is one of the top CoH players, he can easily give you solid advice on what to do.
Just don't come here crying "imba imba" when you got defeated faster than you thought you would be higher tier weapons than you were expecting. There really isn't any response we can give to that just by itself.
I focused on the tank incident specifically because that was the most recent incident. I'm not asking for a critique on how I play. I mentioned other imbalances, and noted that imbalances are a persistent issue throughout Relic's games. If you had read my post you would have also seen that I don't have a demo of that match.
My point was, COH is far from the perfect RTS as stated. I'm not bashing Relic, their games, or COH specifically. I love them and play them and they're great RTS's. But we're disillusioning ourselves to say they're perfect. Relic have not also been the best at balance.
Seriously dude, unless you post something more than "but he had tanks out fast!", how can you expect to suddenly shout imbalance? I can just as easily hop into a game of Starcraft, get destroyed by a swarm in a few minutes, and then come back to the thread and cry imba, nobody's going to listen or care there either.
Here's some advice. Instead of saying how imbalanced the game clearly is (because, you know, it couldn't possibly be that this guy was using strategies that you weren't even considering or just more skilled), try watching the replay of what he did. Odds are that if he's got armour coming out you as his first threat, he's sacrificed a LOT to get there. Heck, POST YOUR REPLAY HERE. We'd be happy to help, Kinderparty is one of the top CoH players, he can easily give you solid advice on what to do.
Just don't come here crying "imba imba" when you got defeated faster than you thought you would be higher tier weapons than you were expecting. There really isn't any response we can give to that just by itself.
I focused on the tank incident specifically because that was the most recent incident. I mentioned other imbalances, and noted that imbalances are a persistent issue throughout Relic's games. If you had read my post you would have also seen that I don't have a demo of that match.
My point was, COH is far from the perfect RTS as stated. I'm not bashing Relic, their games, or COH specifically. I love them and play them and they're great RTS's. But we're disillusioning ourselves to say they're perfect. Relic have not also been the best at balance.
Relic's games certainly aren't perfect, but your example was flawed to pieces. There's no way I can support someone using that as an example of how imbalanced the game is.
You know what? Balanced still is being tweaked. And it is a headache. But frankly, your post really did just come across as abloo bloo'ing over not the fact that you lost, but that you couldn't understand why you lost so you blamed it on the game instead. I'm not trying to insult you, but that's what it honestly looked like.
Seeing a guy with super mega guns versus my normal guns makes me think "Well, fuck this, people that play more get the bonuses and fuck that shit"
I agree BUT if they have a system setup where loot stats are taken into over all character stat/rank statistics so you only fight people who are close to the same skill/stat/loot level as you then I'm perfectly fine with it.
Hey, Scarab, buddy, CoD4 and WoW aren't RTS games. Seeing a guy with super mega guns versus my normal guns makes me think "Well, fuck this, people that play more get the bonuses and fuck that shit", it encourages the dropping from games bullshit that's already rampant for fucking numbers, and it's fucking stupid. I want my games to be about how good my tactics are, not how many fights I've won to get the fucking Stormbolter of Horas that gives bonuses for the rest of the Horas set.
And you'd know what reward I want for being good at a game? I want to have fun and, hell, maybe even win.
I was talking purely an aesthetic bonus.
If you think 'oh shit that guy has better looking stuff than I so I'll quit' then I guess that's your problem. Most people would play on to get that great stuff. Envy begets addiction.
Seriously dude, unless you post something more than "but he had tanks out fast!", how can you expect to suddenly shout imbalance? I can just as easily hop into a game of Starcraft, get destroyed by a swarm in a few minutes, and then come back to the thread and cry imba, nobody's going to listen or care there either.
Here's some advice. Instead of saying how imbalanced the game clearly is (because, you know, it couldn't possibly be that this guy was using strategies that you weren't even considering or just more skilled), try watching the replay of what he did. Odds are that if he's got armour coming out you as his first threat, he's sacrificed a LOT to get there. Heck, POST YOUR REPLAY HERE. We'd be happy to help, Kinderparty is one of the top CoH players, he can easily give you solid advice on what to do.
Just don't come here crying "imba imba" when you got defeated faster than you thought you would be higher tier weapons than you were expecting. There really isn't any response we can give to that just by itself.
I focused on the tank incident specifically because that was the most recent incident. I mentioned other imbalances, and noted that imbalances are a persistent issue throughout Relic's games. If you had read my post you would have also seen that I don't have a demo of that match.
My point was, COH is far from the perfect RTS as stated. I'm not bashing Relic, their games, or COH specifically. I love them and play them and they're great RTS's. But we're disillusioning ourselves to say they're perfect. Relic have not also been the best at balance.
Relic's games certainly aren't perfect, but your example was flawed to pieces. There's no way I can support someone using that as an example of how imbalanced the game is.
You know what? Balanced still is being tweaked. And it is a headache. But frankly, your post really did just come across as abloo bloo'ing over not the fact that you lost, but that you couldn't understand why you lost so you blamed it on the game instead. I'm not trying to insult you, but that's what it honestly looked like.
That's fine, but you misread my intention and came on pretty insulting
As for DoW2, I hope that with the focus on smaller more integrated units they can focus a lot more on the balance than before. Would still like to see Imperial Guard with 20+ reinf for each squad though.
And shouldn't the race announcement be out already? Friday 1am = Saturday 1am now?
COD4 is a decent analogy. Sure it isnt RTS but the basic principles are exactly the same.
I just took another prestige level last night so I'm now level 11. I have the tard guns, while all the people around me have the p90s and the r700s.
But what COD4 did was give the starting guns a fair balance. Meaning even though I have shit gear, stupid perks and very few actual tools at my disposal I am still kicking all sorts of ass.
Dont mistake 'rewarding high level play with bonuses' as 'crippling the newbies' because they are not the same thing.
Seriously dude, unless you post something more than "but he had tanks out fast!", how can you expect to suddenly shout imbalance? I can just as easily hop into a game of Starcraft, get destroyed by a swarm in a few minutes, and then come back to the thread and cry imba, nobody's going to listen or care there either.
Here's some advice. Instead of saying how imbalanced the game clearly is (because, you know, it couldn't possibly be that this guy was using strategies that you weren't even considering or just more skilled), try watching the replay of what he did. Odds are that if he's got armour coming out you as his first threat, he's sacrificed a LOT to get there. Heck, POST YOUR REPLAY HERE. We'd be happy to help, Kinderparty is one of the top CoH players, he can easily give you solid advice on what to do.
Just don't come here crying "imba imba" when you got defeated faster than you thought you would be higher tier weapons than you were expecting. There really isn't any response we can give to that just by itself.
I focused on the tank incident specifically because that was the most recent incident. I mentioned other imbalances, and noted that imbalances are a persistent issue throughout Relic's games. If you had read my post you would have also seen that I don't have a demo of that match.
My point was, COH is far from the perfect RTS as stated. I'm not bashing Relic, their games, or COH specifically. I love them and play them and they're great RTS's. But we're disillusioning ourselves to say they're perfect. Relic have not also been the best at balance.
Relic's games certainly aren't perfect, but your example was flawed to pieces. There's no way I can support someone using that as an example of how imbalanced the game is.
You know what? Balanced still is being tweaked. And it is a headache. But frankly, your post really did just come across as abloo bloo'ing over not the fact that you lost, but that you couldn't understand why you lost so you blamed it on the game instead. I'm not trying to insult you, but that's what it honestly looked like.
That's fine, but you misread my intention and came on pretty insulting
Put yourself in my shoes for a second. I go into the Starcraft thread and make the following post:
"Guys, you know everyone talks about how perfectly balanced this game is, but that's really not the case, and I can't be the only one who thinks that. I love SC as much as the next person, but it has some serious balance issues.
Just this last match, before I could even properly start my 2nd base, the guy was already locking it down with his upgraded marines.
Literally within 3 minutes of that, siege tanks were raining down on my base. I wasn't even close to that level of tech by then.
These were good players no doubt, but it really goes to show that SC is far from the perfect RTS..."
etc. etc.
Now, how well a reception do you think I'd get there? And would people actually try to critique my strategy and suggest that it might have been my issue and not the games? Because if I were to post that right now, I have little doubt as to the kind of responses I'd get, and I bet you that if you feel I insulted you (and apologies if I came off that way) but that's nothing compared to the response that would've been coming in another thread like the SC thread.
I for one hope the new intro is just as awesome as the last one. Dawn of War's intro is pretty much legendary by this stage. First time I watched it I couldn't believe that it was just 2 minutes, felt more like 5 or 6. The sheer amount of carnage the put into that was over the top.
I wonder if they're going to bring back Blur Studio to do the new one.
I dont mean to derail the off topic conversation, but has anyone heard anything about when 1am friday is... is that this morning... during which time nothing happened, or is it tonight, in which case they are stupid?
I dont mean to derail the off topic conversation, but has anyone heard anything about when 1am friday is... is that this morning... during which time nothing happened, or is it tonight, in which case they are stupid?
The stupid one. It seems to be going around a lot lately.
Im being sarcastic, mainly because A: Warhammer came way before anything by Blizzard and B: All Relic games have been superior anyways.
Your Insane about the relic games have been superior, they are good but Blizzard has definitely released the superior games.
Honestly let's not get into this because all that's going to happen is you're going to go away knowing you're wrong and everyone's just going to be angry. Let's keep the fannish rants out of this, guys.
COD4 is a decent analogy. Sure it isnt RTS but the basic principles are exactly the same.
I just took another prestige level last night so I'm now level 11. I have the tard guns, while all the people around me have the p90s and the r700s.
But what COD4 did was give the starting guns a fair balance. Meaning even though I have shit gear, stupid perks and very few actual tools at my disposal I am still kicking all sorts of ass.
Dont mistake 'rewarding high level play with bonuses' as 'crippling the newbies' because they are not the same thing.
This.
I was amazed how many 5-star Generals I wasted in CoD4 when I started out. The MP5 and M4 are very good weapons, even compared to the P90.
Same thing with TFC2. Having the unlockable weapons really just gives you more *options* not so much a sick advantage since each "bonus" has a balancing drawback.
Backbiter *only* crits from behind, ubersaw is slower, ect.
Im being sarcastic, mainly because A: Warhammer came way before anything by Blizzard and B: All Relic games have been superior anyways.
Your Insane about the relic games have been superior, they are good but Blizzard has definitely released the superior games.
Honestly let's not get into this because all that's going to happen is you're going to go away knowing you're wrong and everyone's just going to be angry. Let's keep the fannish rants out of this, guys.
Yeah I know, Sorry for continuing,
I am really pumped for Dawn of War 2 though
I think it's gonna be great though I'm unsure of the loot part of it but we will see.
Posts
Then they can balance around point costs (this type of armor costs x, this amount of dps costs y, this movement costs z, total cost of the troop is x+y+z)
To begin with, lewt drops haven't even been confirmed for multi. But let's assume they are.
I seriously doubt that Relic are going to make drops some kind of overpowered crap that'll make your squads more deadly. Odds are that it'll either be stuff that's either there just for the sake of customising your visual looks, or that it's going to be stuff that gives you options in how you approach a game, and by choosing one set of gear you're fore-going another option for your squad. Sort of like a specific implementation of the company commander trees in CoH.
@ Prosthetic Conscience:
Seriously dude, unless you post something more than "but he had tanks out fast!", how can you expect to suddenly shout imbalance? I can just as easily hop into a game of Starcraft, get destroyed by a swarm in a few minutes, and then come back to the thread and cry imba, nobody's going to listen or care there either.
Here's some advice. Instead of saying how imbalanced the game clearly is (because, you know, it couldn't possibly be that this guy was using strategies that you weren't even considering or just more skilled), try watching the replay of what he did. Odds are that if he's got armour coming out at you as his first threat, he's sacrificed a LOT to get there, meaning there would've been some pretty heavy openings in his strategy before he could attack you (unless you were giving him an easy ride across the rest of the map). Heck, POST YOUR REPLAY HERE. We'd be happy to help, Kinderparty is one of the top CoH players, he can easily give you solid advice on what to do.
Just don't come here crying "imba imba" when you got defeated faster than you thought you would be higher tier weapons than you were expecting. There really isn't any response we can give to that just by itself.
I focused on the tank incident specifically because that was the most recent incident. I'm not asking for a critique on how I play. I mentioned other imbalances, and noted that imbalances are a persistent issue throughout Relic's games. If you had read my post you would have also seen that I don't have a demo of that match.
My point was, COH is far from the perfect RTS as stated. I'm not bashing Relic, their games, or COH specifically. I love them and play them and they're great RTS's. But we're disillusioning ourselves to say they're perfect. Relic have not also been the best at balance.
Relic's games certainly aren't perfect, but your example was flawed to pieces. There's no way I can support someone using that as an example of how imbalanced the game is.
You know what? Balanced still is being tweaked. And it is a headache. But frankly, your post really did just come across as abloo bloo'ing over not the fact that you lost, but that you couldn't understand why you lost so you blamed it on the game instead. I'm not trying to insult you, but that's what it honestly looked like.
I was talking purely an aesthetic bonus.
If you think 'oh shit that guy has better looking stuff than I so I'll quit' then I guess that's your problem. Most people would play on to get that great stuff. Envy begets addiction.
That's fine, but you misread my intention and came on pretty insulting
As for DoW2, I hope that with the focus on smaller more integrated units they can focus a lot more on the balance than before. Would still like to see Imperial Guard with 20+ reinf for each squad though.
And shouldn't the race announcement be out already? Friday 1am = Saturday 1am now?
I just took another prestige level last night so I'm now level 11. I have the tard guns, while all the people around me have the p90s and the r700s.
But what COD4 did was give the starting guns a fair balance. Meaning even though I have shit gear, stupid perks and very few actual tools at my disposal I am still kicking all sorts of ass.
Dont mistake 'rewarding high level play with bonuses' as 'crippling the newbies' because they are not the same thing.
Put yourself in my shoes for a second. I go into the Starcraft thread and make the following post:
"Guys, you know everyone talks about how perfectly balanced this game is, but that's really not the case, and I can't be the only one who thinks that. I love SC as much as the next person, but it has some serious balance issues.
Just this last match, before I could even properly start my 2nd base, the guy was already locking it down with his upgraded marines.
Literally within 3 minutes of that, siege tanks were raining down on my base. I wasn't even close to that level of tech by then.
These were good players no doubt, but it really goes to show that SC is far from the perfect RTS..."
etc. etc.
Now, how well a reception do you think I'd get there? And would people actually try to critique my strategy and suggest that it might have been my issue and not the games? Because if I were to post that right now, I have little doubt as to the kind of responses I'd get, and I bet you that if you feel I insulted you (and apologies if I came off that way) but that's nothing compared to the response that would've been coming in another thread like the SC thread.
We can't. They've put tank traps across it.
Bah. It's scorched earth's barricades or nothing.
But I agree, let's just leave this, it's not really a good road to travel down and I shouldn't have said anything in the first place.
Most War Dawns in a game or what?
I wonder if they're going to bring back Blur Studio to do the new one.
But I like rangers more. The real ones.
Rangers? What RangPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW
Ranger spam is imba
Rifles are imba
Crocs are imba
AWM is imba
British are imba
Werh are imba
PE are imba
Are these DoW 2 drop-ships the new glider crush?
Is black the new black?
Or is black the new Byzantine purple?
You can't spam rangers, silly.
So yeah, essentially using the glider mechanic.
That is, if the gliders fell from orbit and killed shit when they landed.
I thought it had the power of Tokyo drift. They must have nerfed it's spiked chariot wheels.
God I love that crazy little man.
I remember taking out two storm squads with an out of control M10 once. I think it was around 1.71 or so when they first 'fixed' it.
The stupid one. It seems to be going around a lot lately.
Your Insane about the relic games have been superior, they are good but Blizzard has definitely released the superior games.
jackasses.
This.
I was amazed how many 5-star Generals I wasted in CoD4 when I started out. The MP5 and M4 are very good weapons, even compared to the P90.
Same thing with TFC2. Having the unlockable weapons really just gives you more *options* not so much a sick advantage since each "bonus" has a balancing drawback.
Backbiter *only* crits from behind, ubersaw is slower, ect.
Margaret Thatcher
Yeah I know, Sorry for continuing,
I am really pumped for Dawn of War 2 though
I think it's gonna be great though I'm unsure of the loot part of it but we will see.
Also, I'll settle the argument once and for all: Relic games are way better.
Though if you know anything about me, you'll realize I'm just a wee bit biased. :winky:
nvm I just looked and it's a game trailers thing on spike at 1pm EST
nerd rage inc; Rejoice Goomba!