I found MGS3 to be harder than 2 but easier than 1 (this may be a control thing though because I have not played Twin Snakes and MGS1 original controls like ass).
I think MGS3 is longer than 1 and 2 as well but I'm not 100% sure.
That solves that. Thanks Reznik. Looks like I'll be trying my best to beat MGS3 this weekend. I tried it waaay back in the day, but the eating and stealth parts were a little harder than I remembered so I stopped. This was literally at the beginning though.
Yeah, I'm sure you'll get a lot of 4 without playing 3, but a lot of it just won't have the impact. Even though it was a prequel, 3's characters end up being a lot more important than you'd think they would. That, and 4 was pretty much just a huge fanfare finale full of fan-service for all the games, so you get more out of it the more games you play.
Two huge sections of the game will mean nothing to you if you haven't played 3. Also, 3 is possibly the best game in the series, so there's that too!
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
Three is a classic. I'd recommend three to someone who'd never played any of the rest of it. Just play three and stop there if you feel based on the arguments in this thread that you probably wont like the main series.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Three is a classic. I'd recommend three to someone who'd never played any of the rest of it. Just play three and stop there if you feel based on the arguments in this thread that you probably wont like the main series.
Damn, never got to play 3, and when I finally got a PS3 I traded my PS2 in... When I played MGS4, I had to do a lot of reading on Wikipedia to figure out MGS3's story lol. I never thought to look on Youtube to at least watch some of the cutscenes, that's definitely what I should've done.
Pardon the thread necromancy, but I'm playing through this game a second time with my girlfriend.. and something still isn't clear to me.
Naomi Spoilers:
I get that she called Snake down to SA so that she could give Otacon that thumb drive with all of the information on Outer Haven (which she ended up giving to Sunny instead). But I still don't understand why she went back to Liquid. Just to kill herself? I get that she felt guilty for creating Vamp and Foxdie, and that she didn't want to be kept alive by the nanos, but why go all the way back to Shadow Moses?
Pardon the thread necromancy, but I'm playing through this game a second time with my girlfriend.. and something still isn't clear to me.
Naomi Spoilers:
I get that she called Snake down to SA so that she could give Otacon that thumb drive with all of the information on Outer Haven (which she ended up giving to Sunny instead). But I still don't understand why she went back to Liquid. Just to kill herself? I get that she felt guilty for creating Vamp and Foxdie, and that she didn't want to be kept alive by the nanos, but why go all the way back to Shadow Moses?
So that she could die where her brother, Gray Fox, died. I'm not sure if that's a good enough explanation for you, but it's the best I can come up with on the spot.
Ch 1 End. Okay, what the fuck. Have all the characters hit rock bottom?
After all the empty room (LIKE YOUR EMPTY HEART) bullshit. Jack and Rose fell out and she's fucking an old man, still in her altered appearance (or is that no longer true). Mei Ling is also getting pounded by an old man to become a Navy Captain, which equals one Colonel and is really high up.
Vamp returns! And Otacon wants blood! The word PMC is used over and over again! Sexy results!
Also, I never figured out what sniper Jack *cough* Mysterious Voice '08 was talking about nor did I get shot.
Ch 1 End. Okay, what the fuck. Have all the characters hit rock bottom?
After all the empty room (LIKE YOUR EMPTY HEART) bullshit. Jack and Rose fell out and she's fucking an old man, still in her altered appearance (or is that no longer true). Mei Ling is also getting pounded by an old man to become a Navy Captain, which equals one Colonel and is really high up.
Vamp returns! And Otacon wants blood! The word PMC is used over and over again! Sexy results!
Also, I never figured out what sniper Jack *cough* Mysterious Voice '08 was talking about nor did I get shot.
Man you only just finished chapter 1. Give it some time and everything will be made clear. Or not if you aren't paying attention at some points.
Pardon the thread necromancy, but I'm playing through this game a second time with my girlfriend.. and something still isn't clear to me.
Naomi Spoilers:
I get that she called Snake down to SA so that she could give Otacon that thumb drive with all of the information on Outer Haven (which she ended up giving to Sunny instead). But I still don't understand why she went back to Liquid. Just to kill herself? I get that she felt guilty for creating Vamp and Foxdie, and that she didn't want to be kept alive by the nanos, but why go all the way back to Shadow Moses?
So that she could die where her brother, Gray Fox, died. I'm not sure if that's a good enough explanation for you, but it's the best I can come up with on the spot.
I prefer to just say it's a good old fashioned plot hole.
After all the empty room (LIKE YOUR EMPTY HEART) bullshit. Jack and Rose fell out and she's fucking an old man, still in her altered appearance (or is that no longer true). Mei Ling is also getting pounded by an old man to become a Navy Captain, which equals one Colonel and is really high up.
Pardon the thread necromancy, but I'm playing through this game a second time with my girlfriend.. and something still isn't clear to me.
Naomi Spoilers:
I get that she called Snake down to SA so that she could give Otacon that thumb drive with all of the information on Outer Haven (which she ended up giving to Sunny instead). But I still don't understand why she went back to Liquid. Just to kill herself? I get that she felt guilty for creating Vamp and Foxdie, and that she didn't want to be kept alive by the nanos, but why go all the way back to Shadow Moses?
So that she could die where her brother, Gray Fox, died. I'm not sure if that's a good enough explanation for you, but it's the best I can come up with on the spot.
I prefer to just say it's a good old fashioned plot hole.
After all the empty room (LIKE YOUR EMPTY HEART) bullshit. Jack and Rose fell out and she's fucking an old man, still in her altered appearance (or is that no longer true). Mei Ling is also getting pounded by an old man to become a Navy Captain, which equals one Colonel and is really high up.
What do you mean by "altered appearance?"
Rose alters her appearance for Raiden. It's mentioned way late in MGS2.
Granted, it's never mentioned to what extent she changes herself for him.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
Pardon the thread necromancy, but I'm playing through this game a second time with my girlfriend.. and something still isn't clear to me.
Naomi Spoilers:
I get that she called Snake down to SA so that she could give Otacon that thumb drive with all of the information on Outer Haven (which she ended up giving to Sunny instead). But I still don't understand why she went back to Liquid. Just to kill herself? I get that she felt guilty for creating Vamp and Foxdie, and that she didn't want to be kept alive by the nanos, but why go all the way back to Shadow Moses?
So that she could die where her brother, Gray Fox, died. I'm not sure if that's a good enough explanation for you, but it's the best I can come up with on the spot.
I prefer to just say it's a good old fashioned plot hole.
Really? I mean, my explanation makes a lot of sense, especially when using MGS Logic.
I'm a little confused why Naomi joined Liquid and Vamp anyway. From what I gathered from the end, her big plan to give Otacon and Sunny the information necessary to bring down the network was already done; all that was left was... well... to kill herself? Because she doesn't want to continue living because of nanomachines? Oh, and she wanted Vamp to be destroyed, too... Which she most definitely didn't help with.
I THINK there was a reason. I just can't remember it, and I can't find anything on Youtube that would explain it. I suppose her suicide was just typical Kojima-half-Fanboy-half-director-stuff, but why the heel face turn...?
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I'll put it in spoilers.
Well, she has the connection with Vamp. Plus, the nanomachines are her brainchild, or partly. Obviously, she's the expert on that field so she had to lend a hand in that if her overall goal was bringing it down.
"Makes sense" was maybe the wrong wording. There are some plotholes but overall the story is internally consistent. The problem is that it's fucking terrible.
MGS1 and 3 have some... eccentricities in their stories, but the main ideas are all solid. As a rule, the main plotpoints aren't all that goofy, and there's some nice stuff going on thematically. MGS2 is balls-to-the-wall ridiculous, but that ridiculousness is there to serve the theme of the story. It's MGS1 as seen through a distorted funhouse mirror and in that sense it works really well.
MGS4 is even more silly than MGS2, and what's worse, the silliness isn't really thematically relevant. By the end of MGS3 we've got like a million unresolved plotpoints, and 4 spends the entire time ham-handedly resolving them, rather than telling much of a story itself. Some shit just gets straight-up glossed over. "Oh hey Snake remember how we had that awesome adventure where you and Raiden saved Sunny from the Patriots? Yeah that was great... Oh, and then remember how Raiden went nutso and ran off even though the last time we saw him he was completely content with his life? That was just wacky." Some stuff is explained in the silliest way possible. "Okay so remember how we heavily implied in MGS3 that Ocelot's got spirit channeling powers yeah nevermind about all that he's actually just fakin' it." Nanomachines.
Let's talk about how Kojima can't write love-stories for shit. Meryl is incredibly frustrated with Johnny throughout the game (on that note, every character is apparently dumb as bricks since they couldn't figure out that Johnny had no nanomachines when he was unable to do all the fancy cooperative stuff). Then, oh wait, he's actually really attractive so let's get married! Otacon says some of the stupidest lines in the game, which are apparently exactly what you should say if you want to get Naomi all hot and bothered. Later, okay, fine, she was actually manipulating him, that previous scene where she fucked him after knowing him for all of 12 hours doesn't seem so ridiculous anymore. Oh wait no, she's deeply in love with him and talks to him like they're soul mates when they had sex once and still haven't even interacted for a days' worth of time. Oh and just for fun let's give her cancer too! All this shit certainly isn't helped by the fact that Otacon's US voice actor doesn't know how to cry. He just makes little whining sounds.
I could probably talk all day about this, but that's enough.
I loved that, though. If it actually was... y'know. Done well, it wouldn't be Metal Gear. I liked that everything was just freaking crazy as hell and was pretty much accepted as the norm.
I'm about 5 hours into MGS3, and holy shit it's awesome. I sucked horribly at first (everyone spotted me, and I had to kill everyone) but now I'm tranqing like it's my job and then knifing them while they are down. The boss fights are pretty cool so far... Just now heading to The End. Can't wait to see how that fight works out.
Keep a seperate save before the fight so you can replay it over and over
Will do.
I am so very interested in completing this game so I can start on 4. I just don't want to see Snake old.
Snake old is indeed terrible. Its one of the times I wish Kojima had been reigned in harshly, just because he felt old its no reason to take an iconic character and throw him on deaths door. Fuck, would've been more dramatic if he looked young to see him struggling so much with the pain.
Yeah! I finished it! Kojima gains the Closure Achievement!
Because he finished Braid :P
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
"The End" is one of the best boss fight in the history of boss fights. You have so many different ways you can approach this fight. You can even "cheat" in two different ways to avoid it altogether. I wish I had kept a save before it so that I could hear the reaction from my "team" after choosing one of the cheap victories.
And yeah I've been getting the urge to play through MGS4 again. I just wish they would release a trophey patch already because I'd love to try a Big Boss Extreme Run.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
"The End" is one of the best boss fight in the history of boss fights. You have so many different ways you can approach this fight. You can even "cheat" in two different ways to avoid it altogether. I wish I had kept a save before it so that I could hear the reaction from my "team" after choosing one of the cheap victories.
And yeah I've been getting the urge to play through MGS4 again. I just wish they would release a trophey patch already because I'd love to try a Big Boss Extreme Run.
On the subject of MGS4/MGO trophies and Konami ID - we hear you. We have been circulating these issues internally, and we will report back as soon as we are able.
But, fuck that I'm not doing the Big Boss Emblem run again.
Yeah! I finished it! Kojima gains the Closure Achievement!
Because he finished Braid :P
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
Big Boss making peace was very touching.
Hubba-wha?
You saw Revolver Ocelot for the whole game! It was all an act! He was never Liquid!
Well, he was during MGS2, but he was never Liquid after he had his arm replaced. My moment in the whole game is the very end of that fight, "pretty good" indeed.
Also: There are no trophies, just ranks, which are basically the same thing.
But, fuck that I'm not doing the Big Boss Emblem run again.
Yeah that is why I'm waiting. I know I don't have more than one Big Boss Run in me.
And yeah the game was released right around the time trophies came out, so obviously there wasn't time to ship them in the game. We've long wondered if they were ever going to patch them in. Or if they were just going to put them in the sub- re release or whatever. The rank/badge system they have in place is pretty similar, but you only get that at the end and have no idea when you've completed them during the game.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
Yeah! I finished it! Kojima gains the Closure Achievement!
Because he finished Braid :P
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
Big Boss making peace was very touching.
Hubba-wha?
You saw Revolver Ocelot for the whole game! It was all an act! He was never Liquid!
Well, he was during MGS2, but he was never Liquid after he had his arm replaced. My moment in the whole game is the very end of that fight, "pretty good" indeed.
Also: There are no trophies, just ranks, which are basically the same thing.
Oh right, I forgot.
Damn. They need to do a Ps3 version of the Essentials Collection.
Yeah! I finished it! Kojima gains the Closure Achievement!
Because he finished Braid :P
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
Big Boss making peace was very touching.
Hubba-wha?
You saw Revolver Ocelot for the whole game! It was all an act! He was never Liquid!
Well, he was during MGS2, but he was never Liquid after he had his arm replaced. My moment in the whole game is the very end of that fight, "pretty good" indeed.
Also: There are no trophies, just ranks, which are basically the same thing.
Oh right, I forgot.
Damn. They need to do a Ps3 version of the Essentials Collection.
I'm still waiting for them to announce MGS4: Subsistervienance or whatever. You know they're gonna make it, it's just a matter of time.
The whole "Ocelot isn't really Liquid thing" is more apparent in the Japanese version, where he's actually speaking with Liquid's voice the whole time instead of his own.
Yeah! I finished it! Kojima gains the Closure Achievement!
Because he finished Braid :P
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
Big Boss making peace was very touching.
Hubba-wha?
You saw Revolver Ocelot for the whole game! It was all an act! He was never Liquid!
Well, he was during MGS2, but he was never Liquid after he had his arm replaced. My moment in the whole game is the very end of that fight, "pretty good" indeed.
Also: There are no trophies, just ranks, which are basically the same thing.
Oh right, I forgot.
Damn. They need to do a Ps3 version of the Essentials Collection.
I'm still waiting for them to announce MGS4: Subsistervienance or whatever. You know they're gonna make it, it's just a matter of time.
The whole "Ocelot isn't really Liquid thing" is more apparent in the Japanese version, where he's actually speaking with Liquid's voice the whole time instead of his own.
Yeah! I finished it! Kojima gains the Closure Achievement!
Because he finished Braid :P
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
Big Boss making peace was very touching.
Hubba-wha?
You saw Revolver Ocelot for the whole game! It was all an act! He was never Liquid!
Well, he was during MGS2, but he was never Liquid after he had his arm replaced. My moment in the whole game is the very end of that fight, "pretty good" indeed.
Also: There are no trophies, just ranks, which are basically the same thing.
Oh right, I forgot.
Damn. They need to do a Ps3 version of the Essentials Collection.
I'm still waiting for them to announce MGS4: Subsistervienance or whatever. You know they're gonna make it, it's just a matter of time.
The whole "Ocelot isn't really Liquid thing" is more apparent in the Japanese version, where he's actually speaking with Liquid's voice the whole time instead of his own.
Wouldn't that make it less apparent?
Well, presumably he switches back at the very end.
And it would also make a little more sense, since Ocelot spoke with Liquid's voice when he was possessed in MGS2, and it would explain why he would need nanomachines to pretend to be possessed by Liquid. I think they just couldn't get Cam Clarke or something.
I now wish I hadn't put MGS3 on Easy difficulty. The boss fights are a freaking joke. Seriously The End didn't bring me below half health at all (though regenerating health will do that to ya). It was pretty cool, but I guess I'm missing something.
All I did was find out where he was, run up behind him, kick the shit out of him (poor old guy) then chased him around for 10 minutes with the AK47.
I now wish I hadn't put MGS3 on Easy difficulty. The boss fights are a freaking joke. Seriously The End didn't bring me below half health at all (though regenerating health will do that to ya). It was pretty cool, but I guess I'm missing something.
All I did was find out where he was, run up behind him, kick the shit out of him (poor old guy) then chased him around for 10 minutes with the AK47.
I bet one of the ways to kill him was:
Wait till his stamina drained?
If his stamina or health gets to a certain point he'll pray to the forest spirits and they'll heal him completely. I don't know if he does this on Easy though. It's a real bitch because even if you stop him before he finishes the prayer he'll get healed, so you need to stop him before he even starts. Incidentally, if you sneak up on him and hold him up, he'll give you camo that heals your stamina when you're in the sunlight, and gives you 100% camo index when laying on grassy surfaces.
The fight very tricky on the higher difficulties. you have to move super-slowly while tracking him or he'll shoot the shit out of you, and some of his nests can be an absolute bitch to get to undetected. When I played the game for the first time it was on Hard and it took me 2-3 hours to kill him.
All the ways I know to beat him are:
Straight up rock him. There's a lot of ways to do this, though. You can sneak up on him, you can find a sniper nest of your own and out-snipe him, tranq his parrot to lure him out, and probably some I'm forgetting.
Find the secret sniper rifle towards the start of the game, and kill him on the docks while he's still asleep.
Don't play for a week/set the internal clock ahead a week. When you come back you'll find that he's died of old age.
Posts
Yeah this is the same boat I'm in.
Though part of me wants to play them all in order again so I'd be playing 4 last anyway.
So my question is: I beat MGS1 and 2 already... How long is MGS3? Is it harder than the other ones? Will the story help me in understanding 4?
These are crucial questions. I want to play MGS4 SO BADLY but I don't want to cheapen the experience.
I think MGS3 is longer than 1 and 2 as well but I'm not 100% sure.
I would definitely play 3 before 4.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Truth!
3 > 1 > 4 > 2
imho
Naomi Spoilers:
Vamp returns! And Otacon wants blood! The word PMC is used over and over again! Sexy results!
Also, I never figured out what sniper Jack *cough* Mysterious Voice '08 was talking about nor did I get shot.
Man you only just finished chapter 1. Give it some time and everything will be made clear. Or not if you aren't paying attention at some points.
XBL - Follow Freeman
I prefer to just say it's a good old fashioned plot hole.
What do you mean by "altered appearance?"
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Granted, it's never mentioned to what extent she changes herself for him.
NNID: Glenn565
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
Really? I mean, my explanation makes a lot of sense, especially when using MGS Logic.
Besides, nothing was stopping her from going to Shadow Moses after Liquid had gotten what he wanted and left.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I THINK there was a reason. I just can't remember it, and I can't find anything on Youtube that would explain it. I suppose her suicide was just typical Kojima-half-Fanboy-half-director-stuff, but why the heel face turn...?
Keep a seperate save before the fight so you can replay it over and over
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Will do.
I am so very interested in completing this game so I can start on 4. I just don't want to see Snake old.
Snake old is indeed terrible. Its one of the times I wish Kojima had been reigned in harshly, just because he felt old its no reason to take an iconic character and throw him on deaths door. Fuck, would've been more dramatic if he looked young to see him struggling so much with the pain.
My only disappointment was that we never saw Revolver Ocelot again, except for a brief moment in the end. I would have liked to see him more and see what sides he would take.
Big Boss making peace was very touching.
And yeah I've been getting the urge to play through MGS4 again. I just wish they would release a trophey patch already because I'd love to try a Big Boss Extreme Run.
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
Ah damn, there aren't any trophies on MGS4?
But, fuck that I'm not doing the Big Boss Emblem run again.
You saw Revolver Ocelot for the whole game! It was all an act! He was never Liquid!
Well, he was during MGS2, but he was never Liquid after he had his arm replaced. My moment in the whole game is the very end of that fight, "pretty good" indeed.
Also: There are no trophies, just ranks, which are basically the same thing.
Yeah that is why I'm waiting. I know I don't have more than one Big Boss Run in me.
And yeah the game was released right around the time trophies came out, so obviously there wasn't time to ship them in the game. We've long wondered if they were ever going to patch them in. Or if they were just going to put them in the sub- re release or whatever. The rank/badge system they have in place is pretty similar, but you only get that at the end and have no idea when you've completed them during the game.
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
Oh right, I forgot.
Damn. They need to do a Ps3 version of the Essentials Collection.
I'm still waiting for them to announce MGS4: Subsistervienance or whatever. You know they're gonna make it, it's just a matter of time.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
And it would also make a little more sense, since Ocelot spoke with Liquid's voice when he was possessed in MGS2, and it would explain why he would need nanomachines to pretend to be possessed by Liquid. I think they just couldn't get Cam Clarke or something.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Oh yeah, that was it.
Also, I saw the Metal Gear Flash Collaberation. My favorite will always be the first scene.
I bet one of the ways to kill him was:
If his stamina or health gets to a certain point he'll pray to the forest spirits and they'll heal him completely. I don't know if he does this on Easy though. It's a real bitch because even if you stop him before he finishes the prayer he'll get healed, so you need to stop him before he even starts. Incidentally, if you sneak up on him and hold him up, he'll give you camo that heals your stamina when you're in the sunlight, and gives you 100% camo index when laying on grassy surfaces.
The fight very tricky on the higher difficulties. you have to move super-slowly while tracking him or he'll shoot the shit out of you, and some of his nests can be an absolute bitch to get to undetected. When I played the game for the first time it was on Hard and it took me 2-3 hours to kill him.
All the ways I know to beat him are:
Find the secret sniper rifle towards the start of the game, and kill him on the docks while he's still asleep.
Don't play for a week/set the internal clock ahead a week. When you come back you'll find that he's died of old age.
http://www.audioentropy.com/