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Genre Aversion, or:

StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
edited June 2008 in Games and Technology
A couple weeks back Kotaku put up a comment-solicitation post asking people what their least favorite game genres were. I kind of expected a lot of flaming and back-and-forth sniping, but what I got was a lot more illuminating and, for me, kind of dispiriting: something like 60-%75% of the commenters expressed a severe distaste for either sports or racing sims, if not both, frequently invoking the assertion that "if I wanted to I could do that stuff in real life" argument (something rightfully mocked when someone brings it up re: Guitar Hero/Rock Band).

Maybe it's the predictability of the answers and the fact that I am a huge racing game dork that would rather not have the future of the genre dictated by people who say stuff like "tuning is boring, gimme turtle shells instead lol," but this kinda bothered me for some reason and made me think about the prejudices people have against certain genres. What I'm wondering is: is it better to be a well-rounded gamer who leaves their preconceptions aside and tries things they might not like every so often, or does it make more sense to stick with what you know and have a better chance of ensuring that you'll spend the majority of time in an area of gaming you're a lot more likely to enjoy? And why is it always sports and racing games, anyways -- is it something specifically due to the game mechanics, or is it more of a cultural thing? Hell, I never gave much of a damn about football (especially football "culture"; why should anyone care about offseason trade talk and fantasy football in goddamned June?) but still had fun playing NFL 2K5. And I'm pretty sure nobody's any good the first time they play a sim racer like Gran Turismo, but enough people cared enough to try and improve at the game before outright dismissing the genre and now there's a big geek-out wave of anticipation for Gran Turismo 5 and a really strong Forza Motorsport 2 community. More than enough people have fun with those games, but why is the antipathy towards them so vocal?

tl;dr: kinda wondering how gamers' tastes for/against specific genres develop and evolve and how hard it is to break that hard-wired sense of taste after it sets in.

EDIT: augh I'm stupid; I probably should have finished thinking of a thread title


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Posts

  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I have little interest in real-life sport or racing, so found it difficult to look at the game equivalents either.
    It's partly a question of aesthetics, too- I don't want my games to look like the real world. The real world does that nicely enough for me.

    Xagarath on
  • wyrlsswyrlss Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I have a sort of taxonomy of video games, and the first division is Simulation or Arcade. I'm glad that you like simulation racing games. I'm glad there are people who like simulation first person shooting games. Perhaps there's some sort of simulation platformer out there. I prefer the arcade experience. If I'm playing soccer, I find it entertaining to turn the soccer ball into a chain-chomp before I kick it.

    It's an opinion. As far as game development goes, most popular opinion gets the most games. There's still weird simulations out there, like all those Russian submarine simulators.

    wyrlss on
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  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Racing and sports sims don't really do anything for me. It's not that I can do that on my own (I can't), I just don't enjoy really simmy stuff. I'd rather run your car into a wall than draft for god knows how long and maybe eventually pass you. Just not my cup of tea.

    I also stay away from most RTS games. There's just too much going on for me. I can do turn-based, but I don't have the speed to work all that shit in real time.

    jclast on
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  • Monolithic_DomeMonolithic_Dome Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Some games require you to...

    [ ] practice a lot
    [ ] absorb a lot of new information
    [ ] buy an expensive peripheral

    to enjoy the full experience. racing sims require all three. I'm way too lazy.

    I mean if you like racing sims though, sweet. Have a ball.
    just quit taking up the demo kiosks at stores, you weirdo

    Monolithic_Dome on
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  • StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Maybe another distinction that could be made: fans of RPGs, Mario games, adventure games, etc. play for escapism and rich storylines, while people who play sims are all about the idea of control -- not just "this controls really well" a'la Super Mario Galaxy or something, but the idea of being able to endlessly tinker with and finesse these control mechanics until you get the pride that comes with acing a difficult track or striking out a great hitter. (Naturally there's some crossover between the interest in storyline/escapism and the interest in control, though the sports/racing sim base falls almost entirely in the latter -- still, there's probably some fannish escapism in making the Timberwolves a good team or turning a Honda S2000 into a Porsche-killing supercar.)

    Stupornaut on

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  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited June 2008
    Because people are insecure and it's easier to attack other things to justify your tastes than be confident and defend/not care what other people think about your own.

    Aroduc on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well, from what I understand from fans of sports games the genre as a whole has peaked and is on its way downhill. Different people give different times of that peak, but as a general consensus I've heard '05. Realism in a game is only fun to a point, it would seem; perhaps the complete suspension of disbelief is something to be avoided in a game. This may also hold true to racing games, wherein by adding parts and customization options to make the game "hardcore" they lose something.

    Also, it would seem that these are games that have passed the point of refinement. There really isn't any place you can go with sports games except to add realism. The rules are permanently in place, you can't throw the stadium into space or put it underwater or anything. When developing a new sports game, the best way to be different is to improve the graphics and add realism. For the people who enjoy making everything eye-bleedingly realistic, these games do a fantastic job. But for people like me who don't care so much about realism and how many turns they should put on each bolt on the forward-right wheel to maximize tire-to-ground torque or how many sit-ups their self-made sports minions need to lift in order to qualify for certain positions, that level of micro-management seems boring. I watched a couple of my friends playing either Madden '07 or '08 and resolved never to play another sports game after seeing them spend more time in the menus shoving around individual points on players than actually playing the game.

    I suspect that there's some bias in that assessment, though. For instance, that post is only going to been seen by people who frequent that particular board. Also, those kinds of posts will typically draw only people who feel very strongly about a subject, and most of those will be those who feel negatively about it. Statistically speaking, people are likely to believe things they read whether it's their opinion or not. They may not be terribly aware of it, but people who just read through several pages of arguments against racing and sports games will often find themselves agreeing. As an example, when the "console wars" escalated and people were arguing between the Xbox, Gamecube, and PS2, there were several people in my school who were very vocal about the PS2 and made up patent lies about the system that they voiced whenever they could. This lead to the misconception amongst my schoolmates that the PS2 had the best graphics of the 3 systems, a belief they grasped to even when shown the same image of a game on each console.

    Terrendos on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I hate cars and I hate sports and I especially hate watching either so paying money to play either does not strike me as interesting.

    It's especially an issue because it's basically the same thing over and over again, unless you have a "combat" version of something, like the Mario Kart series.

    But actual racing? It's basically a fast tour with annoying buzzing noises.

    Sports? Man I those guys don't even use hammers on people.

    Incenjucar on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    People who are nerdy enough to read videogame blog sites let alone respond to one of their polls don't like sports games. News at 11.

    The fact that it and sim racing are the most stagnant genres this side of vertical SHUMPS and 2D fighting games doesn't help either. Besides the two breath of fresh air sports games on the Wii (Madden '07 and PES) I can't really tell much of a difference from the modern day games and those on the Dreamcast or early PS2.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • SchideSchide Yeoh! Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Personally, I have a horrible aversion to FPS games. This stemmed from me growing up with all my friends playing them. Oh, I tried to play them, Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, etc. but I was terrible at them, couldn't play anything for shit unless I used a god mode code. Then it was just boring. So basically through the years I just completely ignored them. Except for Goldeneye, not sue why but that was the only one I've ever liked. But now I occasionally pick one up and try to play it, but whether they be on the PC on console I just can't figure out what the broad appeal is, or at least, none of them appeal to me at all. Not even something like Bioshock.

    Hell, I even try to watch FPS LPs and they bore the crap out of me.

    Schide on
  • SoaLSoaL fantastic Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I hate cars and I hate sports and I especially hate watching either so paying money to play either does not strike me as interesting.

    It's especially an issue because it's basically the same thing over and over again, unless you have a "combat" version of something, like the Mario Kart series.

    But actual racing? It's basically a fast tour with annoying buzzing noises.

    Sports? Man I those guys don't even use hammers on people.

    Nice edit.

    comparing racing games to fast pokemon snap is the dumbest thing.

    SoaL on
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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    What would you say are the statistics that people who buy sports games/racing games almost exclusively are less likely to go to a site like Kotaku and comment? It wouldn't surprise me if it was pretty sizeable. I think this is more telling of Kotaku's readership than anything.

    Gyral on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah, I'm not a big fan of FPS either. The sheer amount of time and computer speed required to be good at those is irritating, competition wise, and I've never really been drawn into the single player worlds that much.

    --

    SoaL: Yeah, I was mostly associating them based on the level of boring me to death. :P

    Incenjucar on
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    But actual racing? It's basically a fast version of Pokemon Snap.
    I can race Pokemon? Sweet!

    jclast on
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  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    To me, sports games are an accurate respresentation of the sport, and that's pretty much it. I want more than that.

    Bartholamue on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I like sports games sometimes. It just comes it bursts, like I'll get the opportunity to go see a pro basketball game and then I want to play a good basketball video game and then I realize that there really isn't one so I give up

    Same with racing games, not the most exciting thing to me unless it's in the future and has combat or some such. Racing sims are even worse, because they're even less exciting and even more tedious in between races

    Basically to me these are niche genres that appeal mostly to people already really into either sports or racing

    Olivaw on
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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Given that your average video game geek doesn't like real sports, why should it surprise anyone that they don't like virtual sports either?

    RainbowDespair on
  • Tim JamesTim James Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I wouldn't worry about racing sims too much. You have to put it in perspective. No offense to anyone, but that's just the audience you're going to get on Kotaku. Most racing sim fans are pretty hardcore. They can also afford the peripherals. I would dismiss a lot of the "I can do that in real life" comments as some teenagers that like to speed through town and think they are race car drivers. They'll probably die soon anyway. I autocross (haven't made it out to the track yet :() and love racing sims, which I recently got into because I could never afford a wheel as a kid. It's nice knowing just enough about car control and seeing it work in a game. Just tickles me.

    I'm not even sure they understood the question. Maybe they are thinking of sim mode on Gran Turismo 4 or something. I don't even tweak my car in GTR2, just use a downloaded setup for my car, and drive about 30 minutes each in the practice, qualifying, and race for each track in the season. It's loads of fun, very challenging, but doesn't require any "boring" technical tinkering in the slightest.

    Tim James on
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  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I think it's unreasonable to expect any game that attempts to simulate a real-life activity exactly to draw in anyone other than the very specific demographic who are heavily interested in that particular thing, and you should expect it to turn people off. I hate Forza but love Burnout, for example.

    It doesn't mean that Forza games shouldn't be made, but I'm sure as shit not going to buy them.

    Willeth on
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  • StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Terrendos wrote: »
    But for people like me who don't care so much about realism and how many turns they should put on each bolt on the forward-right wheel to maximize tire-to-ground torque or how many sit-ups their self-made sports minions need to lift in order to qualify for certain positions, that level of micro-management seems boring. I watched a couple of my friends playing either Madden '07 or '08 and resolved never to play another sports game after seeing them spend more time in the menus shoving around individual points on players than actually playing the game.

    Do you like RPGs?

    Stupornaut on

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  • j0hnz3rj0hnz3r Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I have an extremely high aversion to games set in a realistic Tolkien/D&D inspired Western fantasy setting (Morrowind), a dark, bloody, post apocalyptic setting (Gears of Wars) or anything set during a war after 1900 (Take your pick). There are exceptions to the rule (Fable, Fallout, CoD4), but in general, you'll find very few of these types of games in my collection.

    Other than that, I can play and enjoy just about anything else.

    j0hnz3r on
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  • FeathersMcGrawFeathersMcGraw Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    For games that tend toward the simulation end of the spectrum, an inherent dislike of a genre almost insures that you won't enjoy the game it is modelling. For example, I will probably never enjoy the physics-based racing in the GT series, although I like more arcade-like racers like Diddy Kong/Mario Kart. Not understanding how football plays are composed and executed make it difficult to play against opponents familiar with the sport (and the team rosters) in various NFL games, but I'm fine with NFL Jam.

    I certainly don't feel a need to be a "well-rounded" gamer. Games are a hobby and a diversion, and if I have to force myself to like a game, it's no longer entertainment. The only people I would expect have a need to actually play outside the box are those who compete (a la Omegathon) or those who want to be involved in the industry, as in game designers, reviewers, etc.

    FeathersMcGraw on
  • UltrachristUltrachrist Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I love real sports and will watch all the boston teams somewhat religiously all year long, but realistic sports games just don't do it for me. I need a next-gen NBA jam or Ice Hockey or something. Same goes for racing (well, I guess I have very little interest in real-life racing). Give me Mario Kart or something. Ultra-realism has no appeal to me.

    Ultrachrist on
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  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Me and JRPGs don't go well together. From the often ridiculous, to characters, writing, gameplay, I find pretty-much nothing there that appeals to me.

    darleysam on
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  • DaxonDaxon Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I generally like games that have a nice story (RPGs, HL2 etc) or I have lots of fun playing (Portal, TF2, Burnout - only with friends though, HL2:DM [with friends on LAN] or CS [with friends on LAN]).

    Sports or (true) racing games have neither so I'm not interested. I love fidgeting around with stats etc in RPGs; as long as I feel it'll help me beat the next boss or something so that I can further the storyline.

    Daxon on
  • NegrodamusNegrodamus Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I've always been the opposite of most people on PA. I have never been into RPGs of any kind, FPSs, or most anything else that's popular here. Action/adventure, racing sims, basketball, and the occasional third person shooter are my scene. It bothers me that very few people here get into discussing racing or sports games, but at the same time I can understand why. Now, if something I usually don't play is said to be great, I will check it out. That's the difference between me, and the attitudes found in that poll and on here (for the most part).

    It's hard to explain the reasons, and you all know why you like what you do :)

    Negrodamus on
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  • GrudgeGrudge blessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm a sucker for a good narrative, so that basically rules out any type of sport/simulation type game. No story? No thanks.

    Simulation-type games do work if the setting is interesting though - for example I love strategy games like the Civilization and Total War series.

    Casual sports games like Wii Sports is ok when played together with other people (preferably also when drunk) though, but let's face it - lots of things are more fun when you're drunk.

    Grudge on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    Me and JRPGs don't go well together. From the often ridiculous, to characters, writing, gameplay, I find pretty-much nothing there that appeals to me.

    What he said.

    august on
  • Sunday_AssassinSunday_Assassin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Sports games offer a completely different experience to playing in real life, so I hardly see that as an excuse not to like them.

    Soccer games, for example, are an eleven-man tactical affair. In real life... yeah, not so much. You're one guy, and people rarely do what you want them to do (unless you shout a lot. Which I do. But it rarely helps). In games the difficult parts are almost done for you, in exchange for the bigger picture.

    The video game versions are actually a lot closer to televised football than the real thing. Only with the added ability to make the little men do what you want. Which is nice when you are a Cardiff fan.

    (The new 'be a player' mode in Fifa is closer to the real thing, I suppose. In that its frustrating and horrible to play online unless you're fond of defensive midfield.)

    Maybe american football's different and everyone's a quarterback in real life, but as both a fan and player of the sport, soccer games offer a completely different experience and challenge to the real life equivalent.

    Given the choice, yeah I'd probably chose real life every time, but that doesn't mean I don't have time for the Football Managers, and the Fifas, and the Pro Evos of the world.

    Sunday_Assassin on
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm adverse to "FANTASY ADVENTURE" titles, as adventure seems to hint at actually being long winded fetch quests that overstay their welcome.

    That's right, Legend of Zelda.

    I'm looking at you.

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  • -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Unless there's 3 other people playing with me in the room I don't give a shit about sports games. Even then they seem to be getting increasingly complex these days in an attempt at more realistic and deep gameplay, and I just don't give enough of a shit to learn how to play properly. So I'd never want to play the latest version of FIFA or Madden or whatever. But give me 3 friends, a Nintendo 64 and a copy of Wayne Gretzky 3d hockey and I'm set!

    -SPI- on
  • StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm a sucker for a good narrative, so that basically rules out any type of sport/simulation type game. No story? No thanks.

    Does it also rule out, say, Pac-Man? Or Tetris?

    Stupornaut on

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  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    -SPI- wrote: »
    Unless there's 3 other people playing with me in the room I don't give a shit about sports games. Even then they seem to be getting increasingly complex these days in an attempt at more realistic and deep gameplay, and I just don't give enough of a shit to learn how to play properly. So I'd never want to play the latest version of FIFA or Madden or whatever. But give me 3 friends, a Nintendo 64 and a copy of Wayne Gretzky 3d hockey and I'm set!

    This. Though I'm ok with new versions. I never really got playing sports games by yourself (maybe Madden, but I never got into that period.) But get 4 people in on those games and you can play for hours.

    tsmvengy on
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  • GrudgeGrudge blessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm a sucker for a good narrative, so that basically rules out any type of sport/simulation type game. No story? No thanks.

    Does it also rule out, say, Pac-Man? Or Tetris?

    Yeah, these kinds of casual games bore me very quickly.

    Grudge on
  • LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    And why is it always sports and racing games, anyways -- is it something specifically due to the game mechanics, or is it more of a cultural thing?

    This has always struck me as the perfect translation of the classic music preference "I like everything but country and rap." I think it's very much based on cultural preferences, combined with a lack of specific knowledge about the differences within each broad genre. You can find a lot of people who'll pick out the differences between, say, Super Mario Galaxy and Ratchet & Clank: Future, but won't really stop to think about the differences between GT5 and PGR4.

    It's kind of a catch-22: In general, people are interested in games that they're good at playing, and they're not interested in games they're not good at playing. But it's only by playing enough games in a genre that you can really differentiate games while still being under that same umbrella. If you don't like the first game or two you try, or you're just not good at them, you'll be more prone to say "I don't like racing games" instead of "I don't like sims, I prefer looser arcadey driving games like Burnout or Outrun."

    While I generally dislike sports games because I don't follow many sports, I do harbor a secret obsession with golf games. Tiger Woods is really a very in-depth RPG if you take the career mode: You make a character and start with shitty stats and equipment, and as you play and win games/beat opponents, you earn money and experience to make your character better. The player also gets better at the physical act of playing. You earn your way into tournaments and shoot for winning everything. The last one I played, '06, actually has a nice balance between linear and nonlinear progression, because you can tackle groups of challenges ("quests") in any order you want.

    And racing sims are definitely an acquired taste—and I've found their fans tend to be insular in the way that fans of shmups and fighting games are—but I don't know if I could live in a world without EXCITE TRUCK.

    Lunker on
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  • Uncle_BalsamicUncle_Balsamic Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I don't care for JRPGs, especially the overly cute ones with funny shaped characters. I do however love racing sims. I don't care for most sports games but Football Manager is good even if it isn't a "proper" sports game.

    Uncle_Balsamic on
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  • ErgandarErgandar Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I disliked racing games before I played Trackmania Nations United.

    I'm more of an arcade racer than a sim one, and like many others here, I simply cannot play sports games.

    Puzzle games bore me to tears, and any online competitive shooter I play I find either incredibly shallow or not worth the time investment.

    However, I am willing to waste hours scheming world conquest, so it's not a matter of patience.

    Ergandar on
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  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Grudge wrote: »
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm a sucker for a good narrative, so that basically rules out any type of sport/simulation type game. No story? No thanks.

    Does it also rule out, say, Pac-Man? Or Tetris?

    Yeah, these kinds of casual games bore me very quickly.

    I find I do get tired very quickly with having to chase scores. I just don't care enough to try and have a bigger number than the next guy, even if the game is great. This is a shame, because Geometry Wars is a great game, I just don't care enough to play it.

    darleysam on
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  • EngelNULEngelNUL Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Being an avid racing enthusiant and a gamer I find myself trying almost every new non-arcade racing game out there. I have found that the ultra-sims like GTR and the SimBin gmaes are almost unplayable in their pursuit of simulation in the same way that Mario Kart is about the lack of simulation (a recent hour was spent tyring to appreciate the new Mario Kart, where the last 5 versions of the game have failed to even spark excitement).

    Gran Turismo and Forza are about where you get to the playable phase. Learning the tracks, the turns, when to accelerate or when to take the braking zone a little late to grab the inside of a hairpin is exactly the same thing as memorizing patrol patterns in Metal Gear, exactly which animation frame to jump from the knee to the arm on the 3rd Colossus or learning the timing of the god awful moving platforms in any umpteen billion mario/platformer games. Its just a different set of stat memorization to know your Ferrarri can outbrake a Viper than to know your Articuno using Ice Beam will get a massive 6x attack bonus hitting a Dragonite (seriously, who hasn't considered Gran Turismo to be the Pokemon of racing games?)

    At that level of playing, when the game becomes a chore, I check out. I can barely race Forza 2 online because, well, I only have so much time to devote to tuning a car. I kick some serious ass at Nurburgring, but I don't stand a chance against the people that tune.

    When you get to the Need for Speeds, Project Gothams and Grids...thats when its a game. You can screw up, take turns late, show off and be impressed with your own lack of control. Grid expects you to wreck. Codemasters put one of the coolest damage models together, jus so you could take that chicane at 180, lose control and go bouncing down the wall, ripping your car to shreds and flipping up in the air....then using the racing equivelent to the Sands of Time, go back a little and take the turn a little smarter, survive, and win. Brilliant.

    I hate uber sim, I hate sports games, I hate platformers and am starting to develope a dislike for JRPGs. Console FPSs are overrated, RTSs are too frantic. Puzzle games are boring, and adventure games are either exctinct or have jumping puzzles. Basically...I hate everything!

    EngelNUL on
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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Speaking of genre aversion have any non-sports lovers here tried MLB Power Pros (Wii/PS2)? It's a highly chibi version of baseball complete with a dating sim-esque simulation mode.

    RainbowDespair on
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