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So Radio is Piracy Now.

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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Druhim wrote: »
    neville wrote: »
    Except you can legaly purchase mp3s without DRM off of iTunes.
    Turning that off would be prior to them changing the format, imo.

    ah, thanks for the clarification
    I don't have direct experience with iTunes so I was speaking in ignorance
    did they start doing so in response to Amazon offering mp3s?

    You can't buy MP3s from iTunes. You download an AAC file, and may convert it.

    iTunes has always had a wink-wink-nudge-nudge DRM avoidance system, in that you can burn as many copies of a song as you want to a CD, and then just re-rip it. Last year they started selling higher-bitrate, DRM-free music for a few cents more, but it's the label's/artist's choice whether to require DRM or not.

    Janin on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Pony wrote: »
    i remember a couple years back

    i bought the Sims 2 college expansion

    and it wouldn't install on my machine

    like it just wouldn't

    i call customer support and they are like "do you have any of the following programs installed" and read a big list

    and on that list was Demonoid (a virtual drive program) and Alcohol 120 (which is a burning program)

    she is like "yeah the game won't install while you have those programs installed because they are used for piracy"

    her tone was threatening

    i was quite upset as there are legitimate uses for those programs, you asshole

    i returned the game to EB, explained the situation nicely to the manager, he let me swap the game for something else
    yeah, that is bullshit and why most current DRM is unreasonable

    Druhim on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Janin wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    neville wrote: »
    Except you can legaly purchase mp3s without DRM off of iTunes.
    Turning that off would be prior to them changing the format, imo.

    ah, thanks for the clarification
    I don't have direct experience with iTunes so I was speaking in ignorance
    did they start doing so in response to Amazon offering mp3s?

    You can't buy MP3s from iTunes. You download an AAC file, and may convert it.

    iTunes has always had a wink-wink-nudge-nudge DRM avoidance system, in that you can burn as many copies of a song as you want to a CD, and then just re-rip it. Last year they started selling higher-bitrate, DRM-free music for a few cents more, but it's the label's/artist's choice whether to require DRM or not.
    ah, so you can convert them to mp3

    Druhim on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Pony, that's basically why I think DRM is just a big "fuck you" to people that buy legitimate music/games. You can bet pirates didn't care about their stupid protection at all.

    Janin on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Druhim wrote: »
    ah, so you can convert them to mp3

    Yeah, but only the ones bought without DRM or ripped from a disc.

    Janin on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    Dru, that article is bullshit.
    MPAA Says No Proof Needed in P2P Copyright Infringement Lawsuits
    No. They are saying this:
    "The only purpose for placing copyrighted works in the shared folder is, of course, to 'share,' by making those works available to countless other P2P networks," the MPAA wrote.
    Which would indeed prove intent to commit copyright infringement. Should they sue the poor lady for millions of dollars? No. Are they wrong in saying that intent to illegally share songs should be enough because it can be impossible to track those she would be sharing it with? Not really.

    this isn't even necessarily true. a lot of P2P apps 1) can be used entirely for legal purposes to begin with and 2) automatically share your media, often without the user knowing. poor software design? probably. but it certainly doesn't prove intent on its own. there's a huge logic gap.

    what the RIAA is trying to do here is automagically label P2P apps as themselves showing "intent to infringe". it's a ludicrous argument.

    No you didn't read the article in full. They are only accusing intent of those that have copyrighted material in shared folders for those P2P networks.

    Butters on
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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Apple never sold MP3s, never ever. Their music is in AAC format, which technically isn't Apple-only, effectively it is (the PS3 will play AAC files I found out - but it doesn't read the tags properly so nothing is organized at all..)

    In the last year or so they started selling a VERY small selection of tracks from one or two record companies in non-protected format, but they are still AAC.

    There are other stores that do sell MP3 like Amazon of course.. and that's a better deal IMO, though I'd still want 192-256k or better - especially with MP3 which isn't as good as AAC.

    jwalk on
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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Janin wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    ah, so you can convert them to mp3

    Yeah, but only the ones bought without DRM or ripped from a disc.
    Yep and you lose a generation when you trans-code like that.

    jwalk on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Druhim wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    i remember a couple years back

    i bought the Sims 2 college expansion

    and it wouldn't install on my machine

    like it just wouldn't

    i call customer support and they are like "do you have any of the following programs installed" and read a big list

    and on that list was Demonoid (a virtual drive program) and Alcohol 120 (which is a burning program)

    she is like "yeah the game won't install while you have those programs installed because they are used for piracy"

    her tone was threatening

    i was quite upset as there are legitimate uses for those programs, you asshole

    i returned the game to EB, explained the situation nicely to the manager, he let me swap the game for something else
    yeah, that is bullshit and why most current DRM is unreasonable

    a lot of EA's current DRM still does this. Mass Effect has SecuROM, which still prevents me from wanting to plunk down money for the game. Crysis has it too. their upcoming titles are all supposed to have SecuROM as well. it's disgusting.

    fightinfilipino on
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    BomanTheBearBomanTheBear Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Pony wrote: »
    i remember a couple years back

    i bought the Sims 2 college expansion

    and it wouldn't install on my machine

    like it just wouldn't

    i call customer support and they are like "do you have any of the following programs installed" and read a big list

    and on that list was Demonoid (a virtual drive program) and Alcohol 120 (which is a burning program)

    she is like "yeah the game won't install while you have those programs installed because they are used for piracy"

    her tone was threatening

    i was quite upset as there are legitimate uses for those programs, you asshole

    i returned the game to EB, explained the situation nicely to the manager, he let me swap the game for something else

    i know you don't need to hear this from me but

    that is a stack of HORSE SHIT

    did they just have them banned arbitrarily, simply because they can be used for piracy?

    i use alcohol 120 to make home videos for my family

    i expect a notice from MPAA that i must register them and pay a tariff or i am not allowed to distribute them

    BomanTheBear on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    a lot of EA's current DRM still does this. Mass Effect has SecuROM, which still prevents me from wanting to plunk down money for the game. Crysis has it too. their upcoming titles are all supposed to have SecuROM as well. it's disgusting.

    What's the big deal with SecurROM?

    Butters on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    jwalk wrote: »
    Apple never sold MP3s, never ever. Their music is in AAC format, which technically isn't Apple-only, effectively it is (the PS3 will play AAC files I found out - but it doesn't read the tags properly so nothing is organized at all..)

    In the last year or so they started selling a VERY small selection of tracks from one or two record companies in non-protected format, but they are still AAC.

    There are other stores that do sell MP3 like Amazon of course.. and that's a better deal IMO, though I'd still want 192-256k or better - especially with MP3 which isn't as good as AAC.
    well Amazon mp3s are 256k (variable rate though, but I doubt you could actually tell the difference compared to a track that was entirely 256k)

    Druhim on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    jwalk wrote: »
    Janin wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    ah, so you can convert them to mp3

    Yeah, but only the ones bought without DRM or ripped from a disc.
    Yep and you lose a generation when you trans-code like that.

    Generational loss isn't a big deal for most users, because they aren't doing any sort of editing or constant transcoding.

    Janin on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    a lot of EA's current DRM still does this. Mass Effect has SecuROM, which still prevents me from wanting to plunk down money for the game. Crysis has it too. their upcoming titles are all supposed to have SecuROM as well. it's disgusting.

    What's the big deal with SecurROM?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM

    Druhim on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    a lot of EA's current DRM still does this. Mass Effect has SecuROM, which still prevents me from wanting to plunk down money for the game. Crysis has it too. their upcoming titles are all supposed to have SecuROM as well. it's disgusting.

    What's the big deal with SecurROM?

    it rapes your HD and dicks with programs

    PiptheFair on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    a lot of EA's current DRM still does this. Mass Effect has SecuROM, which still prevents me from wanting to plunk down money for the game. Crysis has it too. their upcoming titles are all supposed to have SecuROM as well. it's disgusting.

    What's the big deal with SecurROM?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM

    It basically sticks a bunch of weird shit into your computer's deep holes, and then starts fucking with you.

    Janin on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    also it tends to gain physical form and rape you

    PiptheFair on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    only it doesn't use any lube

    Druhim on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So piracy detecting spyware? Yeah that's fucked up.

    Butters on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    and it's pretty big too

    PiptheFair on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    So piracy detecting spyware? Yeah that's fucked up.

    it's a bit more than that dude

    PiptheFair on
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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    to be fair, there are dozens of other programs you could use to make videos.

    alcohol and demonoid are roughly 99% used for piracy.

    that don't make what EA does right, but then neither is piracy, and you are free to simply not buy their products, which is really the best thing you can do since it hurts them in the only place they really care about.

    jwalk on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    So piracy detecting spyware? Yeah that's fucked up.

    Spyware usually doesn't damage your computer, SecuROM has been known to do stuff like disable your CD burner or anti-virus software.

    Janin on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    So piracy detecting spyware? Yeah that's fucked up.

    it's a bit more than that dude
    Some users have reported severe damage caused by SecuROM, resulting in system failures that required complete system reformats to fix.

    D:

    Butters on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Dru, that article is bullshit.
    MPAA Says No Proof Needed in P2P Copyright Infringement Lawsuits
    No. They are saying this:
    "The only purpose for placing copyrighted works in the shared folder is, of course, to 'share,' by making those works available to countless other P2P networks," the MPAA wrote.
    Which would indeed prove intent to commit copyright infringement. Should they sue the poor lady for millions of dollars? No. Are they wrong in saying that intent to illegally share songs should be enough because it can be impossible to track those she would be sharing it with? Not really.

    this isn't even necessarily true. a lot of P2P apps 1) can be used entirely for legal purposes to begin with and 2) automatically share your media, often without the user knowing. poor software design? probably. but it certainly doesn't prove intent on its own. there's a huge logic gap.

    what the RIAA is trying to do here is automagically label P2P apps as themselves showing "intent to infringe". it's a ludicrous argument.

    No you didn't read the article in full. They are only accusing intent of those that have copyrighted material in shared folders for those P2P networks.

    i did read the article, a while ago actually when it was posted on Slashdot. and i'm pointing out that that's a red herring. let's say i have a typical Windows machine with the default documents folder -> music folder hierarchy. let's also say i buy non DRM'ed music off iTunes or some other source, or, worst case scenario, i rip MP3s of songs off CDs that i own, and store them there.

    a majority of P2P programs automatically will share these folders upon installing them, without any prompting from the user. so if i installed a P2P program, like Limewire or something, to download wholly legal things like homebrew games or freely shared manuals from normal companies or anything else, that program might inadvertently also make my music folder public. in that case there was no "intent" to share at all, and yet the RIAA is claiming that that in itself already represents guilt.

    you still have the problem of being able to concretely tie a given IP address to an actual person. right now the balance between accuser and accused is already way skewed towards the accuser. what the RIAA is asking here is a complete dismantling of the few remaining protections an accused person still has. regardless of any actual guilt, it taints the whole process by giving way too much leverage to the plaintiffs (the **AA's).

    fightinfilipino on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Butters wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    So piracy detecting spyware? Yeah that's fucked up.

    it's a bit more than that dude
    Some users have reported severe damage caused by SecuROM, resulting in system failures that required complete system reformats to fix.

    D:

    yo

    PiptheFair on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    jwalk wrote: »
    to be fair, there are dozens of other programs you could use to make videos.

    alcohol and demonoid are roughly 99% used for piracy.

    that don't make what EA does right, but then neither is piracy, and you are free to simply not buy their products, which is really the best thing you can do since it hurts them in the only place they really care about.

    Are there any other Windows programs for mounting an ISO image as a virtual drive? Other OSes like OS X or Linux have that built-in, but Alcohol and Daemon Tools are the only way I know of to do so in Windows.

    Also, "demonoid" is a torrent aggregate, not a program.

    Janin on
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    J3pJ3p Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Starforce was worse.

    J3p on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    for a while there, SecuROM also prevented people from running Sysinternals' Process Explorer. it's a completely legit system utility, and SecuROM blocked it in the name of preventing piracy.

    the only reason i think SecuROM gave up on blocking it after Sysinternals patched Process Explorer to defeat this was because Sysinternals is now an official part of Microsoft.

    t j3p: yeah, Starforce actually destroyed CD/DVD drives. that was just ridiculous.

    fightinfilipino on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    Janin wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I thought Apple dumped DRM? Weren't they like the first to do it?

    Only if the artist allows them to. Lots of artists still want their music to come with digital restrictions.

    Fun fact: burning a CD with that download and reripping it onto your computer means no more DRM on it
    Not that I am advocating doing anything illegal with it, hell you can read about this in a magazine, which is where the school librarian read about it before she asked me

    Me Too! on
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    JaninJanin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah, I already said that Wiggin.

    Janin on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lol! wrote: »
    Janin wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I thought Apple dumped DRM? Weren't they like the first to do it?

    Only if the artist allows them to. Lots of artists still want their music to come with digital restrictions.

    Fun fact: burning a CD with that download and reripping it onto your computer means no more DRM on it
    Not that I am advocating doing anything illegal with it, hell you can read about this in a magazine, which is where the school librarian read about it before she asked me

    assuming you're doing this with songs you originally bought, this should fall under fair use protections.

    of course, you're also falling afoul of the DMCA. what a fucking shittily written piece of legislation.

    fightinfilipino on
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    nevilleneville The Worst Gay (Seriously. The Worst!)Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Janin wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    So piracy detecting spyware? Yeah that's fucked up.

    Spyware usually doesn't damage your computer, SecuROM has been known to do stuff like disable your CD burner or anti-virus software.

    Makes you wonder why no lawyers are suing the RIAA.
    They've been doing bullshit for years, especially with the fake summons they send to people which essentially amount to blackmail:

    "Pay us X or we take you to court" knowing fully that they wouldn't win all of those cases.

    neville on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    Man I skipped a bit alright
    Just hit quote and went to town

    Me Too! on
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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    right now canada is trying to put forth a DMCA-style law which, amongst other riders put on it, would give airport security the right to search your ipod or laptop for illegal mp3s

    which uh

    would be impossible to determine

    Pony on
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    KilljoyKilljoy __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    holy fuck that is a terrible law pony

    you sure that's real?

    Killjoy on
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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    right, and if you're gonna buy a blank CD and spend the time burning it and ripping it back, and losequality in the process... might as well just buy the damn CD in the first place.

    jwalk on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Pony wrote: »
    right now canada is trying to put forth a DMCA-style law which, amongst other riders put on it, would give airport security the right to search your ipod or laptop for illegal mp3s

    which uh

    would be impossible to determine
    oh dear god

    and we all know how technically competent airport security is

    Druhim on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    I have heard a lot of dumb things, and I've said a lot of dumb things, too
    But that, that right there?
    Takes the fucking cake

    Me Too! on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    jwalk wrote: »
    right, and if you're gonna buy a blank CD and spend the time burning it and ripping it back, and losequality in the process... might as well just buy the damn CD in the first place.

    Or you have a stack around because you burn music that you download to listen to in the car or on your stereo or whatever
    So for ten bucks it's still cheaper because you already have the CD

    Me Too! on
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