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Philosophy? Where do I start?

Regicid3Regicid3 Registered User regular
edited July 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
I don't even know where to start, or what I'm doing. I don't know anything. I'm sick of sitting here, wondering aimlessly everyday and not being able to connect the dots.

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Posts

  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    Wikipedia, or play Bioshock.

    Fizban140 on
  • VisionOfClarityVisionOfClarity Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The Undead and Philosophy: Chicken Soup for the Soulless

    VisionOfClarity on
  • Durandal InfinityDurandal Infinity Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Find social life and girls and then you wont care about the mortality of every being and the purpose of existence. Just go out and have fun and dont dwell on what depresses if you dont have to

    Durandal Infinity on
  • WezoinWezoin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well, really I think if you're looking to figuring out what life means, you probably want to figure out what life is first. For that I'd recommend reading some epistimology based books.

    If, however, you're just looking to be happy. I'd recommend just adopting an epicurean lifestyle - do whatever makes you feel good and avoid whatever makes you feel bad.

    Wezoin on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Plato's Republic.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    T.Z. Lavine's book From Socrates to Sartre provides a nice synopsis of Western Philosophy. It's, obviously, not very in depth since it focuses on a lot of philosophers and concepts, but it's a very good overview. I used it during my undergraduate studies, and it definitely intensified my interest in philosophy. Here's a link to the Amazon page for it: http://www.amazon.com/Socrates-Sartre-Philosophic-Quest/dp/0553251619/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214620186&sr=8-1 . Also, it's only 8 dollars, which is a good deal.

    However, studying philosophy will almost certainly create more questions than it will answers. You will never find the right path by studying philosophy, you will simply find more questions that need to be answered.

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  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Plato's Republic.

    Actually, The Republic is a rather advanced work. Start with Plato's Euthyphro and Gorgias.

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  • Durandal InfinityDurandal Infinity Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
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  • fuelishfuelish Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Worship: Sun

    Pray to: Joe Pesci

    Thanks to: George Carlin

    fuelish on
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  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    You can't go wrong with Leibniz. I'll always contend that he was the most intelligent person to ever live. His page on wikipedia is light on his philosophy, but provides a good overview of what he was capable of.

    That said, philosophy makes you work for your answers. It makes you really think about what you believe, and work through your questions on your own. I think it's incredibly important precisely because of that fact, but plenty of people get frustrated with the endless searching.

    There are plenty of overview books out there, but you'll get the most out of the primary texts. The standard progression usually goes something like: Plato->Aristotle->Descartes->Hume->Kant. That of course leaves huge holes, and leaves a big gap between then and the present, but it's the broad overview that you'd get in Philosophy 101 or thereabouts.

    PolloDiablo on
  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Might want to pick up a standard "Intro to Philosophy" textbook somewhere that just has a bunch of excerpts from random popular philosophers on various topics. That what convinced me to major in the subject.

    Raiden333 on
  • HylianbunnyHylianbunny Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    Might want to pick up a standard "Intro to Philosophy" textbook somewhere that just has a bunch of excerpts from random popular philosophers on various topics. That what convinced me to major in the subject.

    Honestly, this is probably your best option. Get a taste for articles in a variety of subjects, and then decide what you'd like to spend more time on from there.

    Hylianbunny on
  • starmanbrandstarmanbrand Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Philosophy isn't going to give you any answers. It's just going to give you more questions.

    Only thing I liked about philosophy is pragmatism.

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  • TaGuelleTaGuelle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    If you want a comprehensive life philosophy to connect the dots, you might want to look at religions rather than philosophy. No philosophy that I've read really connects the dots, its more like they point out the dots and tell you which ones not to miss, but you still gotta do it yourself. Whereas, take for example, Islam, that does all the work for you, even if doing it isn't easy on your part.

    Edit: I mean exploring in a scholastic sense, I'm not saying you pick up a religion, but they are good for self discovery.

    TaGuelle on
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well, if you wanna go big, I could give you the list of all the books we read in our year long (Western focused) survey type class where we read everything from Plato's Republic to Foucault's Discipline and Punish.

    ---

    Or you could go the awesome route and read:

    Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

    I read this for my Philosophy in Literature class and it was one of my teacher's favorite books, and I loved it, it was fantastic, you should read it, seriously man, I'm serious, don't read some textbook or whatever, start with this, it will be interesting and make you think at the same time. I lie not.

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
  • adamadam Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    You pretty much sound like a philosopher to me.

    adam on
  • LiveWireLiveWire Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    adam wrote: »
    You pretty much sound like a philosopher to me.

    I laughed really hard at this.

    LiveWire on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Pretty much any attempt in Philosophy to connect all the dots is significantly difficult that it should take you a few years of study to comprehensively understand. Metaphysics, epistemology and ontology are words that most people don't know for a reason. I don't agree that Philosophy only gives you questions and not answers, but the only answers come through thorough reading and substantial personal rumination. Notably, a lot of famous philosophers were known, in their time, for causing depression and anxiety through their work, as laypeople read their books and would realise "horrible" truths about existence.

    If you think you'd like to examine it some more, a first-year or high school philosophy textbook should do you well. They'll have excerpts of model philosophers that you can peruse to see if there's any specific field you're interested in.

    If you're serious enough about Philosophy to hit it independently, there are some big names that are probably mandatory reading:

    Plato (Republic) <- Greek Rationalist
    Aristotle (Nicomachean Ethics?) <- Greek Empiricist
    Anselm (Prosoglion and replies) <- Medieval
    Aquinas <- Medieval
    Descartes (Meditations) <- Rationalism
    Locke (Essay on Human Understanding) <- Empiricism
    Berkeley (Treatise on Principles of Human Knowledge) <- Idealism
    Hume (Enquiry on Human Understanding) <- Skepticism
    J.S. Mill <- Utilitarianism
    Marx <- Socialism
    Sartre (Being and Nothingness is hard. Do Existentialism is a Humanism first, then go back if interested.) <- Existentialism
    Russell <- Analytical
    Foucault <- Postmodern
    Dawkins (Blind Watchmaker's probably best?) <- Evolutionary
    Rawls <- Social Justice

    This is by no means a complete list, but I think it should provide a decently broad overview of western Philosophy, though I've excised the most difficult writers (e.g., Kant, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Rousseau) and some of the lesser known writers (e.g., Leibniz - who I love too PolloDiablo but just isn't that influential - Spinoza, Heraclitus, Parmenides, de Beauvoir, Santyana). I'm also missing a few movements, like pragmatism, but can't think of who'd be good in that role.

    ETA: My high school philosophy reader was Voices of Wisdom, by Gary E. Kessler, and it was pretty good. It's got a lot of lesser, modern names but I remember getting some really good readings out of it.

    hippofant on
  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Philosophy just gives you more questions...

    corcorigan on
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  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    If you're looking for books to get you started, pick up Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar.... It's a basic overview of philosophy through humor. Short, easy to read, and quite funny.

    Kilroy on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    corcorigan wrote: »
    Philosophy just gives you more questions...

    This has been said a few times, and it is totally false.

    Read Machiavelli's The Prince (open source) and J.S. Mill's On Liberty for social/political content. Maybe Plato's Meno for general "what is life/thought?" stuff, but you have to be willing to deal with pretty wildly incorrect assumptions about knowledge and gender roles, among other things.

    edit: fix'd

    TL DR on
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Do you mean Machiavelli's The Prince? I think that, like a lot of the older stuff we're recommending, might not be to the point. If he's looking for answers on life in the modern world, I think he would be best served by some contemporary works, and not necessarily philosophical works.

    So, in answer to the title's question of "Philosophy?" I have to answer, "not really." Might I recommend literature? I'm currently reading Haruki Murakami's The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles, and the main character focuses a lot on what it means to live in today's society. Go sit in the sun, and read that.

    PolloDiablo on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Do you mean Machiavelli's The Prince? I think that, like a lot of the older stuff we're recommending, might not be to the point. If he's looking for answers on life in the modern world, I think he would be best served by some contemporary works, and not necessarily philosophical works.

    So, in answer to the title's question of "Philosophy?" I have to answer, "not really." Might I recommend literature? I'm currently reading Haruki Murakami's The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles, and the main character focuses a lot on what it means to live in today's society. Go sit in the sun, and read that.

    Shit, yes.

    TL DR on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Thomas Moore's Utopia, obviously

    INeedNoSalt on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    You live your life and come up with your own philosophy.

    Drez on
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  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Bertrand Russell's The History of Western Philosophy.

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  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Solvent wrote: »
    Bertrand Russell's The History of Western Philosophy.
    Oh hey that's the one we used in my phil in lit course
    But still, read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance cuz I said so

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
  • coldbird.coldbird. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    kierkegaard

    coldbird. on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    coldbird. wrote: »
    kierkegaard

    Shut up. :P

    Stay away from 19th or 20th century philosophers and philosophies until you've read at least a little bit of Plato, Aristotle, and Kant. Once you've got a general idea of where these three guys are coming from, you'll be in a position to read what everyone else was responding to.

    saggio on
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  • coldbird.coldbird. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Kierkegaard got me through some tough times. O.P. seems to be going through some tough times.

    coldbird. on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    coldbird. wrote: »
    Kierkegaard got me through some tough times. O.P. seems to be going through some tough times.

    Fair enough. I retract my previous statement.

    saggio on
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  • KartanKartan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I wouldn't recommend Kant at all. You are better of googeling his ideas than reading through his works. Reading through his works is...hard, that man just can't finish a sentence.

    Kartan on
  • DrFrylockDrFrylock Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    At some point after you've gotten through the basics, read some Heidegger. Not a lot of it, just enough to convince yourself that philosophy hasn't evolved to the point where its top practitioners can distinguish between useful information and complete, utter timecube raving excremental bullshit.

    DrFrylock on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    saggio wrote: »
    coldbird. wrote: »
    kierkegaard

    Shut up. :P

    Stay away from 19th or 20th century philosophers and philosophies until you've read at least a little bit of Plato, Aristotle, and Kant. Once you've got a general idea of where these three guys are coming from, you'll be in a position to read what everyone else was responding to.

    Kant? Seriously? You'd recommend newbie Philosophers read Kant, and without Descartes and Locke? I thought Kant's whole thing is the resolution of the conflict between rationalism and empiricism (which I don't think he really does, in that obfuscating-German-way of his, but...) and you need Descartes and Locke (or viable alternatives) to understand what he's trying to resolve.

    Not that Kant isn't insightful, but I remember my second-year Philosophy course just going to hell when we hit Kant. He's very difficult reading and nobody in the class had any clue what he was talking about, except the upper-year Philosophy students who were dipping down for the course, and me because I'd studied him in high school. The combination of deadly German prose and his being one of late-comers to the rationalist/empiricist game makes me wave people away from Kant, at least on a first pass of Western philosophy.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I usually recommend staying away from the Germans in general. With their made-up words and ridiculous prose, they are so damn hard to read. Between them and the French existentialists...

    hippofant on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    hippofant wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    coldbird. wrote: »
    kierkegaard

    Shut up. :P

    Stay away from 19th or 20th century philosophers and philosophies until you've read at least a little bit of Plato, Aristotle, and Kant. Once you've got a general idea of where these three guys are coming from, you'll be in a position to read what everyone else was responding to.

    Kant? Seriously? You'd recommend newbie Philosophers read Kant, and without Descartes and Locke? I thought Kant's whole thing is the resolution of the conflict between rationalism and empiricism (which I don't think he really does, in that obfuscating-German-way of his, but...) and you need Descartes and Locke (or viable alternatives) to understand what he's trying to resolve.

    Not that Kant isn't insightful, but I remember my second-year Philosophy course just going to hell when we hit Kant. He's very difficult reading and nobody in the class had any clue what he was talking about, except the upper-year Philosophy students who were dipping down for the course, and me because I'd studied him in high school. The combination of deadly German prose and his being one of late-comers to the rationalist/empiricist game makes me wave people away from Kant, at least on a first pass of Western philosophy.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I usually recommend staying away from the Germans in general. With their made-up words and ridiculous prose, they are so damn hard to read. Between them and the French existentialists...

    Well, I'll definitely concede that it helps if you read Descartes/Spinoza/Leibnez and Locke/Berkley/Hume before you read Kant. But if the OP wants to read anything from the 19th/20thC, then he's going to have to read Plato, Aristotle, and Kant just to understand what anyone is going on about. That's essentially the price of entry to anything post-Kant, because a surprising number of ideas and positions are either derivatives of the three thinkers, or are purposely opposed to what those three thinkers put forward.

    saggio on
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  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Start with Sophie's World.

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  • KartanKartan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Start with Sophie's World.

    This. So hard.

    Kartan on
  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Questions like this is why I lurk here. Thanks OP.



    Philosophy 101 textbook.
    Bertrand Russell's The History of Western Philosophy
    Sophie's World

    1) Of the three texts mentioned, which to start with? I've only read a few philosphy texts and I still don't "get it" in a big picture way like you "get" that math isn't only about counting.


    2) "Or you could go the awesome route and read: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

    I've read this. It was interesting, but why do you think it's awesome?

    PirateJon on
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  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm not a philosophy student (although I aced Logic 1 as an elective if that counts for anything). I also haven't read much other philosophy, but I'll add to my earlier suggestion why I like The History of Western Philosophy.
    Russell is just so readable. He will summarise the ideas of great philosphers for you so you don't have to dig through their archaic prose and figure it out yourself. And he's very funny, in that dry old-fashioned British way that my grandfather can sometimes do.
    The criticisms of the book are that he allows much of his opinion into it. There are some philosophers in there that you can tell he doesn't have much respect for, and so if you're looking for purely objective stuff this may not be for you. Also, I've read that the book skips over the significance of some philosphers and doesn't do them justice, and also that the book is too heavy on the ancient Greek stuff and not big enough on relatively modern stuff. It was written in 1946, I think, which can give you an idea on how modern it gets. And when I found that out I was surprised, because as I said it's incredibly readable. Has aged well.

    So there's further thought on my original 2c.

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  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Hippofant put together a fantastic list on the first page, you need to not ignore the texts he said. I am puzzled by the grouping of Nietzsche in with the 'tough reads' though. He is far and away the most enjoyable philosopher to read for me, nearly god damned poetry at times. At the very least some Zarathustra couldn't hurt him, though I think the existentialists in general should be second priority to a lot of other stuff he could be reading.

    Thirded or whatever on the Russell reccomendations. At the very least it is one of the best reference tools - you can be reading something else, encounter some idea or work that is even briefly mentioned, and then go back to HoWP to get some background. Well, or just stay up all night on wikipedia.

    OP - any specifics about what you want to learn? Law and society? Epistemology? Logic?

    Another suggestion I can give you that isn't a philosophy text (though combing through source material with a highlighter and possibly even taking notes can be extremely helpful if you're going through some particularly dense stuff) is called Zeno and the Tortoise, by Nicholas Fearn. It pretty much breaks down every major contributor to philosophy and expounds the influence and utility of their contributions. Depending on how much you already know it may seem oversimplified, but it's an extremely easy and quick read, and really couldn't hurt if you're going to go into the big stuff afterwards. Knowing a little history helps, especially given that most philosophers reference the philosophers of their past and the ideas they put forth.

    UnknownSaint on
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