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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah I would, Fram probably would too.

    Defender on
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    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Defender, I understand your stance on Apple.

    If they didn't have such an effectively-marketed brand identity they wouldn't be able to charge as much as they do for the computers they make.

    Sure a person could buy a similarly-capable machine for a lower price, but they don't want that. They want an Apple. They want MacOS X, they want the aesthetic design and they want the whole package to come through the same company instead of assembled from several sources. Apple takes these features and markets around them so that not only is it a stable computer, it's also a status symbol or a mark of how cool/artistic you are.

    And people like that, and they buy them.

    The marketing works and allows them to generate a sizable profit which they then use to develop even more trendy consumer products.

    TankHammer on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    That's what I'm saying, it's pretty straight-forward stuff.

    Defender on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    Is that like the Life thing? Where you make patterns that turn out to be little birdies and stuff? I am not big on theory.

    Man, Defender.

    I thought you were cool.

    Framling on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Framling wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Is that like the Life thing? Where you make patterns that turn out to be little birdies and stuff? I am not big on theory.

    Man, Defender.

    I thought you were cool.

    I'm totally cool, but you must recall that I do not like math and I tolerate theory only insofar as it makes video games cooler.

    Defender on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    Framling wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Is that like the Life thing? Where you make patterns that turn out to be little birdies and stuff? I am not big on theory.

    Man, Defender.

    I thought you were cool.

    I'm totally cool, but you must recall that I do not like math and I tolerate theory only insofar as it makes video games cooler.

    Does not compute.

    Framling on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Math is fun with enough lube.

    MKR on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I mean jeez, even Jordyn likes math, and she hates math.

    Framling on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Framling wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Framling wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Is that like the Life thing? Where you make patterns that turn out to be little birdies and stuff? I am not big on theory.

    Man, Defender.

    I thought you were cool.

    I'm totally cool, but you must recall that I do not like math and I tolerate theory only insofar as it makes video games cooler.

    Does not compute.

    I'm more about the grammar than the math. Like this cool guy:

    Chomsky_Van.jpg

    Defender on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Framling wrote: »
    I mean jeez, even Jordyn like math, and she hates math.

    GRAMMAR

    Defender on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    Framling wrote: »
    I mean jeez, even Jordyn like math, and she hates math.

    GRAMMAR

    Oh whatever, that was a typo and you fucking know it.

    Framling on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I do.

    Defender on
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    SeriouslySeriously Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Cloudman wrote: »

    Watching that video was like hearing a teacher trying to be clever lecturing on the Nacirema.

    All it would take to be complete is a little 'shoppin

    Seriously on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Last night, we were waiting to go sit down at this comedy show thing, and Jordyn and I were standing next to her boss, and a joke occurred to me about dynamic identifier binding at run-time, and I was all ready to just file it away with all the other jokes I don't get to make because Jordyn would never get them, and then I realized that her boss was a programmer nerd, and he'd get it.

    And he did. It was wonderful.

    Framling on
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    you should send that joke to the guy who does XKCD

    I'm sure he would appreciate having a good joke to use

    Centipede Damascus on
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    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Actually, we started talking about xkcd after that.

    Apparently the "Little Bobby Tables" one is his favorite, since he once ran an ecommerce website for like 4 years without properly sanitizing input.

    Framling on
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    SeriouslySeriously Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    pause.png

    Seriously on
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    stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    ZeroFill wrote: »
    wait do you work for t-mobile?

    yeah, I'm a customer service representative at one of their call centers

    Hahaha, I had that exact job, but for Cingular.

    Worst job of my entire fucking life.

    Highlight was a dude who threatened to "cut my fingers off" when I wouldn't let him use a Sprint pre-paid minutes card on his Cingular phone.

    Duuuuuude

    That is hilarious

    What did you say?

    I pointed out that he lived in California, and that I lived in Colorado.

    He said he'd make the trip.

    I told him that if he could afford those kind of travel expenses, he could probably afford a $20 card from the proper provider.

    He hung up, and my supervisor high-fived me.

    To Stim: Not to be a total asshole, but how uneventful is your life?

    More uneventful than it used to be that is for sure, but I managed back when it was more eventful just fine without a phone, but I saw my friends on a regular basis then, seriously though, I find I manage just fine however, my friends have this thing about not changing plans though, so they're pretty easy to find where they are and when, it is kind of creepy how well they stick to their plans. If people want to contact me, they ring my house, or find me on the internets, and then if I'm already are out, chances are I'm doing something and won't want to do anything different.

    I just don't find I need one, so I'm happy without it, don't care what other people do in that respect really.

    stimtokolos on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Man, Apple arguments are dumb. Apparently they're all really overpriced pieces of shit, yet practically everyone who owns or uses an Apple product thinks they're well worth the money.

    As are arguments about whether people need to own cellphones or not. That's great, you're lifestyle doesn't require one; that's super, your lifestyle does require one. It's like a lumberjack and an accountant arguing over whether people need to waste money buying chainsaws. How the fuck does it turn into some sort of moral stand-off? Needing or not needing one doesn't make you any better or worse.

    OK, now you're being dumb, because you've just assumed that anyone who buys an Apple product and says that they're worth the money is automatically qualified to know what the fuck they're talking about. The ENTIRE POINT of what I'm saying is that Apple's marketing convinces people that their products are worth the money. (Really, any good marketing will do that.) So if, hypothetically, a company were to design and market an overpriced item to an ignorant consumer base, that consumer base would buy it and say that it's worth it. In other words, you have proven absolutely nothing here.

    ARGH! Just fuck off with your inane shit!

    We get it, you hate teh apples! Abloo abloo abloo.

    No, you dumb fucking shitface, it's not that I hate Apple or its product line. Goddamn, you are so fucking dense. My point is that they sell an overpriced product based on really good marketing. Any reasonable person would just realize that that's exactly what marketing does; make people aware of something and make them want to buy it if they don't already. That's the whole goddamn point of having a marketing department! This isn't about "Apple makes shitty products," and you'll notice that I haven't said that their products are actually bad. I just said they're overpriced. Goddamn, Dru was right, you are a moron.

    Ok, well setting aside for a minute that marketing is a bit more complicated than that, what are you really saying? That people who buy Apple products are by default ignorant because the only reason someone would buy anything made by Apple is because of their silly TV adverts?

    Because that concept doesn't mesh with how consumers of hi-tech products currently make buying decisions.

    Do you want to know what marketing is really all about? Marketing is central to any modern business organisation. 'The marketing department' isn't a bunch of poofs in loud shirts drawing pretty housewives buying rolling tobacco for their hard-working husbands any more. Marketing involves everything from initial product development to final distribution and everything in between.

    Marketing starts with product development - if you don't have a product that people want or need, you don't have a product. It's naive to think that marketing is a magical tool to brainwash people into thinking they need something they don't. It simply doesn't work that way because it turns out, people aren't stupid. Shocking, I know, but it's a truth we just have to accept Defender. People, especially those who buy expensive electronics and hi-tec consumer goods, research the products in detail before buying them. Especially when they cost $600. And they can do this easily and outside the control of the manufacturer because of the dissemination of information on the internet. You can't cover up product flaws any more, the product has to convince the buyer on it's own, otherwise it won't sell.

    If a company is as successful as Apple in today's market, yes it's because of their really good marketing, but that really good marketing starts with going out and figuring out what people need that they don't currently get. That's how you become a market leader - it isn't by churning out identical products to your competitors, it's through finding a niche in the market currently not served. Now, sometimes that's a hard sell to make, because as Apple demonstrated with the iPhone, targeting a niche not currently served can alienate a lot of the assumed target niches for smartphone customers. But to be a market leader rather than a market follower that's a risk you have to take; Apple are by no means the first to do it.

    To a traditional smartphone consumer, the iPhone seems ridiculous, to the millions of new smartphone users and those who migrated from other handsets to the iPhone, Apple have clearly struck a chord. They're serving a need. It might not be your need, but it's obviously someone's need. Maybe that 'need' is just style over function, maybe it's omitting features that some users simply don't have a use for in favour of other features they've been crying out for, maybe it's just something simple like a 'proper' keyboard.

    Associated with this research is determining a price point which the customer base are willing and able to pay for the proposed product. This is dictated by the customer - it's dependent on their level of disposable income, the perceived value the proposed product will have to them, their typical spending on similar products etc. This isn't just a pie in the sky figure they can slap on at the end and force people to pay via irresistible advertising, this is a limiting factor that the product has to be designed within.

    So yes, Apple manage to sell their products through really good marketing. But not even remotely the way you think. In the modern business world really good marketing starts with a really good product at the right price. The adverts with pilots telling us how the iPhone saved their dinner plans is just fluff - all it does is demonstrate that they got it right, it's little more than post-marketing self-congratulation - without the right product to begin with you couldn't have that advert.

    tl;dr Shove it up your fucking arse you self-important shit bag.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    god szech
    just
    stop

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Did you really write 661 words in SE++ to say "Apple is pretty good at marketing"?

    MKR on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Did you really count how many words I wrote?

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    It took 3 seconds to paste it into openoffice and click the word count button.

    MKR on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    In that case, yes, I did.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    owwww my brains

    whyyyyy

    Centipede Damascus on
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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    so the CA law here says that dialling and ... TEXTING... while driving is still legal. you just have to be hands-free during the conversation.

    TEXTING???

    jwalk on
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    SeriouslySeriously Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Sure, you just use the PenisPad.

    Seriously on
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    dialing wand

    MKR on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    jwalk wrote: »
    so the CA law here says that dialling and ... TEXTING... while driving is still legal. you just have to be hands-free during the conversation.

    TEXTING???

    I have seen stupid, fat, 20-something bitches do that on multiple occasions.

    Defender on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Druhim wrote: »
    god szech
    just
    stop

    Man, you were completely right about this guy being an idiot. I hadn't really seen him frequently enough to establish this, but good fucking god, he has now officially registered himself in my brain as a complete retard.

    Defender on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    jwalk wrote: »
    so the CA law here says that dialling and ... TEXTING... while driving is still legal. you just have to be hands-free during the conversation.

    TEXTING???

    I have seen stupid, fat, 20-something bitches do that on multiple occasions.

    People read novels behind the steering wheel during their commute.


    And not even good ones either.


    I'm pretty certain most of that stuff can just be covered under a blanket 'dangerous driving' law though. Even although there probably isn't a law that specifically says 'Don't read Mills and Boon behind the wheel you stupid slut' if the police pulled you over for doing it there's bound to be something they can ticket you with.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    god szech
    just
    stop

    Man, you were completely right about this guy being an idiot. I hadn't really seen him frequently enough to establish this, but good fucking god, he has now officially registered himself in my brain as a complete retard.

    Haven't seen me frequently enough? Jesus Defender, I've been posting retarded shit in SE++ for four years now. of all the things you've said, that cut the deepest.

    Szechuanosaurus on
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    Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    god szech
    just
    stop

    Man, you were completely right about this guy being an idiot. I hadn't really seen him frequently enough to establish this, but good fucking god, he has now officially registered himself in my brain as a complete retard.

    Haven't seen me frequently enough? Jesus Defender, I've been posting retarded shit in SE++ for four years now. of all the things you've said, that cut the deepest.

    What's with all the e-hate? Relax dudes, you all gotta learn to love each other

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    in the butt.

    jwalk on
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    Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Defender wrote: »
    jwalk wrote: »
    so the CA law here says that dialling and ... TEXTING... while driving is still legal. you just have to be hands-free during the conversation.

    TEXTING???

    I have seen stupid, fat, 20-something bitches do that on multiple occasions.

    according to cnn, texting is sort of already covered under current driver-distraction laws

    Randall_Flagg on
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    Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    also: were we talking about john conway's game of life in here?

    because it is super awesome

    Randall_Flagg on
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