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    earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The only thing that looks a little weird to me so far is the right booby. I know that the left one is more turned, in turn making it take up less real estate, but the right ones shape just doesn't seem to match.

    Also the arms look pretty sound to me so far, but the left leg, or specifically calf part, seems short unless you're gonna foreshorten it more.

    Realllly cool sketch though, can't wait to see you refine it further.

    earthwormadam on
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    NappuccinoNappuccino Surveyor of Things and Stuff Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I don't think the legs look chunky at all (unless you were aiming for anorexic then... i guess so) but they do seem a tad short. I can't tell if its an optical illusion or not though.

    Nappuccino on
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    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The only thing that looks a little weird to me so far is the right booby. I know that the left one is more turned, in turn making it take up less real estate, but the right ones shape just doesn't seem to match.

    Realllly cool sketch though, can't wait to see you refine it further.

    Hmm, yeah, I changed the curve of the left bewb a few times. I'll look into that! I think maybe I'll give her a lift on the left side...that may be the issue.

    And thanks, I'm excited about finishing it! :D I'm really happy with how the shoulder/head region is coming out.

    NightDragon on
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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Man I hate feet for this reason :P I'd probably approach it by reducing shit to cubes to the get the angles right and refining from there, trying to figure out the boot design... I'd probably be tracing over what I've done to avoid fucking the original too much. ...I am giving you terrible advice, why am I bothering. :| Sorry pal!

    desperaterobots on
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    feet cubes

    haha, it's fine :P

    The thing is, I couldn't even get the cube-method to work properly. This must just be completely beyond me, heh! Feet are usually one of the hardest things for me to get right in a character...so throwing in foreshortening and crazy angles is just killing me.

    NightDragon on
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    D-RobeD-Robe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    What you need is a knee-high wall. That'd do the trick.

    D-Robe on
    Cheese.
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    NappuccinoNappuccino Surveyor of Things and Stuff Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    For the foot, you could give this a try http://www.posemaniacs.com/tools/handviewer/ (the second option on the right is a 3D foot you can put at just about any angle.)

    (there's only one foot, so for the other, you can screen cap it and flip it so you'll get the other foot you want)

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
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    Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ND: Two suggestions. First, look at some pictures of female triathletes. If you want a better understanding of low bodyfat, muscular women look, those would be a great resource. For example. I don't know how muscular you want to go, though.

    Right now, the face is looking great, but there are weird anatomy glitches all over (neck not in the center of the shoulders, ridgid, tubelike limbs, awkward transition from hips to legs, and so forth). I'd offer some paintover, but my women aren't too great.

    Second, grab a pair of shoes. Hold one up to the angle of the foot you want to draw and observe it. That should help with your feet woes.

    Toji Suzuhara on
    AlphaFlag_200x40.jpg
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Awesome you guys, thank you thank you!

    Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the tube-ness in the arms (maybe my own arms are tube-like D: ) but the legs definitely are, and I think that photo you posted will really help.

    I'll consider elongating the legs a bit (she does look a bit short), even though the last time I tried that, her legs looked way too long. Eugh. I'll see what happens.

    NightDragon on
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    Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yeah, sorry. I could've been a little more helpful. Like so!

    NDlady.jpg

    That's how I'd approach it. The lack of overlap on the inner-elbows was what was making me see the arms as tubey. Some light muscle definition on the arms will sell the fact that she's muscular all over, since that's all we can really see of her body sans clothes, and arms tend to be a good indicator, anyway.

    (Ed: I don't know if I'm making sense. I'm tired.)

    Toji Suzuhara on
    AlphaFlag_200x40.jpg
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Ooooh, alright. Heh, I actually had the creases at the elbows, but erased them after tweaking the arms. Thanks for the drawing! I'll add some muscles to her arms ''n' legs and make her less tubey. :)

    NightDragon on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Tomorrow I am driving back to Los Angeles from Central California...and the day after that I drive home to San Diego. When I get there, I will do a paintover. Hopefully you aren't in a huge hurry.

    I think we can squeeze some more dynamics out of this honestly. I am not usually a big proponent for finding ultra dynamics in poses...but she appears to be flying through the air a bit...is this the case? Because if so that is definitely one of the situations we would want to dynamify the hell out of something.

    If she isn't in midair...what is she doing exactly?

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    VeritasVeritas Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I know this doesn't exactly help immediately with the drawing at hand but would it be possible to get a friend to pose for you to get the foreshortening/angles/feet?

    Obviously it's an action pose so you can't just recreate the whole pose but even if they were on a counter-top or something so you can match the angles of the legs that might be a tremendous help.

    Veritas on
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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Im with Cake on this one, there's alot more that can be done with the dynamics. Right now there's no real sense of movement, and it looks like shes doing a little jig or something with her limbs all akimbo. Her limbs arnt moving in 3d space, and theyre all very 'straight-on' views, which looks a little flat.

    Here's my take, boot is a little screwey but I don't have time to figure it out proper.
    GunGal_WIP2.jpg

    The face is totally radsauce though.

    McGibs on
    website_header.jpg
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    Radar6590Radar6590 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Edit: Damn! I need to refresh before posting. McGibs is also a good take, though the legs' still a little short and fat. At least it looks like it's in some sort of perspective. And he moved the am forward instead of down, which may be an improvement over my idea, I think. Also, he moved the leg back, which may be good, but depends on what you wanted and what she's doing.

    Edit2: Also, Gibs! That leg, I would like it back, too. But you put it at a really uncomfortable angle. Hide that shit behind the other leg. Or leave it forward.

    Has no one noticed that her left arm is bending in an angle that makes me wince? Yeah, you can do it, but it's really unnatural and stiff. And, in fact, the whole pose looks like she's a rock, built into it. Nothing looks like it's moving at all. Which is a problem, since she is. I'm with Cakemikz on this.

    You need to extend her leg, and bring her other leg up. And they just need to not look like a solid object. Like, your legs just look like one continuous limb. But people are always bending, changing, and each part shouldn't follow exactly the same path. She also has a fairly boxy body, making her quite manly. Not that she needs to be thinner, but just slight bends in her stomach and at her back would help with this.

    Here's a drawover!

    drawover.jpg

    Radar6590 on
    My DeviantArt
    Loomdun wrote: »
    ...And I am being hulked enraged by multiple things right now and I will destroy you
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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm still not sure what she's doing? Her flow of motion suggests she's riding down a slide.

    McGibs on
    website_header.jpg
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    Radar6590Radar6590 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Could be at the end of a jump? Jumping down from somewhere. That's how I took it originally.

    Edit: Btw, McGibs, hadn't taken a look at your site until now. Sick stuff.

    Radar6590 on
    My DeviantArt
    Loomdun wrote: »
    ...And I am being hulked enraged by multiple things right now and I will destroy you
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    PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm going to do a drawover as well. Radar's sketch lost a lot of energy.

    PROX on
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    PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Here we go:

    gungal_proxover.jpg

    I didn't want to alter your pose too much since it was pretty dynamic. I think the main problem was that your torso is very elongated, so your arms and legs had to made longer or (in my approach on the drawover) strong foreshortening needed to be added to make the proportions right.

    What I noticed was that your shoulder were a bit low and that the neck sat flatly on the ribcage when it should have sat at a slant, with indication of the trapezius behind it.

    For the feet, I find it helpful to indicate the ankle attachement because that area can get confusing fast. I use pyramidal wedging since people feet are flat like ducks. The arch of a foot is often underestimated, even though most people's feet create a 2.2 to 1 ratio triangle.

    edit: the arm on the right is really big, since i was trying to compensate for the proportions...


    edit edit: USE GIB'S DRAWING. His pose makes the floating in the air thing work. The way you have the torso constructed is better since there is a sense of upward motion. The way he tweaked that leg gives a pretty good curve.

    PROX on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yeah Gibs for the most part did what I was thinking, though I would almost consider mirroring the legs (with some adjustment obviously). I may have to put my foot in my mouth on that (since I cant do a paintover right now) but I feel getting more of a twist from torso to hips would be a very good thing.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The little cast shadow Gibs put in grounds the whole picture in reality. I think that he had the right idea.

    PROX on
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    CharisCharis Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I don't know, Prox. I know it's a quick sketch over, but that's one boxy chick. Looks like man's body with some slight hip to it and some boobies thrown on there. Think Michaelangelo, that guy had no idea what women looked like, his statues were all man torsos with boobs tacked on under the armpits.

    That arm is also still wrenching up there on the right side. You would have to make it bigger to compensate for her torso being long, but no one picks their arm up that high. Both Radar and McGibbs corrected that, because if you try putting your arm like that yourself, it hurts.

    The way you have the shoulders takes some energy out of that neck crane. The original drawing had some nice caught action with the neck, and Radar and McGibbs accentuated that by dropping the arm, causing there to be a nice motion line that curves along the head. With your shoulders she kind of looks like a brick wall or a foot ball player, especially with the arm up, and we lose that nice craning neck.

    And picking up the left foot like that so it's facing up, who would do that? Once again, stretching something that much hurts. If you put the foot up like that you lose the motion line, and it would hurt the back of your heel and the front of your ankle to do so.

    Considering the regular composition of a piece where the character is falling (that is, the best place on the page for them to accentuate the motion) I have moved both the pieces to a same-size canvas so that you can see.

    pshi.jpg

    psh2.jpg

    As you can see, the motion that the downward arms Radar put, and that foot pointing to accentuate the same motion, gives that piece a lot more flow. The raised arm in your sketch over and that foot pointing up have this weird suspended puppet sort of effect, and keep the movement lines from totally consolidating into motion.

    In terms of energy, McGibbs got it. Running always looks more energetic than falling, of course, and the arm that extends forwards into space, and that leg going back, pushes the space way more than Radar's and yours. But, of course, it depends on if Nightdragon wanted her to be falling or running.

    Charis on
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    F87F87 So Say We All Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    McGibbs got it, for sure. That paintover actually helped me realize something of great importance.

    EDIT: ND, I love this drawing so far. Please don't stop.

    F87 on
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    PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Sure you get motion with radar's gesture, but it makes the composition lopsided. I kept the arm up there for balance and rhythm. Also the arm is going back in space, instead of just flat along the side like radar had it, which adds a bit more dimension.

    I made the drawover boxy to show the perspective of the torso, so that it would be easier to wrap details around the shape. Yes I now notice I drew the ribcage and arms too beefy for a female figure, but I was trying to correct the perspective and give a definite direction for the body.

    edit: the left foot is not being lifted up, the leg is come towards you so you see the underside of the foot.

    PROX on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ND, I find it helps to do a few separate gestural drawings and then a more involved sketch to really get a feel for what you're doing before launching into the piece proper. I don't know if you do that already, but I just wanted to put that out there.

    Tam on
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    PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    gungal_proxoverb.jpg

    PROX on
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    CharisCharis Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PROX wrote: »
    Sure you get motion with radar's gesture, but it makes the composition lopsided. I kept the arm up there for balance and rhythm. Also the arm is going back in space, instead of just flat along the side like radar had it, which adds a bit more dimension.

    I made the drawover boxy to show the perspective of the torso, so that it would be easier to wrap details around the shape. Yes I now notice I drew the ribcage and arms too beefy for a female figure, but I was trying to correct the perspective and give a definite direction for the body.

    edit: the left foot is not being lifted up, the leg is come towards you so you see the underside of the foot.

    You're wrong. The body might be leaning towards the lower left side of the composition, but the cape in the upper right side of it helps balance. Not everything is in the middle of the page all the time. That is poor composition, actually.

    And I'm talking about the left side leg, not the left leg. And that left side foot is being lifted in a painful and uncomfortable manner. It's fine when you're leg is straight, but the bent left side leg would strain the achilles tendon.

    To me, that arm you drew does not look like it's going back in space. The hand is the size of the hand holding the gun, so to me there is no perspective suggesting that it is going back.

    EDIT: Also, if I had been really trying for the composition I would have extended the left side of the canvas more so that the piece was focused on the upper right. But that demonstration was just for motion purposes.

    Charis on
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    PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The torso and the legs are already providing the main gesture, and putting the arm like that would feel like she tied that arm to her body with a rope, and that it didn't have it's own weight. An arm has less mass then the torso and leg combined, and is attached by a joint, so it would be in a different position during a fall or a jump. Right now it seems like a jump. Or if running the character is free to move the arm in a running motion. I felt that Radar's pose was too stuff.

    I did draw the arm funny though, so i can see how the perspective became confused.

    PROX on
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    You guys...freakin' ROCK!

    I think McGibs' and Prox's drawings have the feeling I was going for (and yeah, she's running, not falling...I would've probably made her legs more vertical and have the extended leg have more of a bend if I was going to do that, I think)...I did do gestures, originally, but I think I lost a lot of the movement after redrawing so much, mostly in the torso.
    Charis wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, if I had been really trying for the composition I would have extended the left side of the canvas more so that the piece was focused on the upper right. But that demonstration was just for motion purposes.

    The piece actually does extend on the left a bit, and what you see is just the cropped part. I didn't include it though because there's hardly anything there yet, and I figured there wouldn't be much point in including it.

    NightDragon on
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Shes running? None of the poses done work for running really. I was kind of confused as to what she was supposed to be doing... and I think most people were too.

    I did a quick paintover (lol, how many have there been) of Gib's paintover since I thought that was an excellent start as far as posing the legs and arms better. But there needed to be some changes to make her actually look like shes running:
    running.jpg

    The funny thing is if you had the horizon completely horizontal, she would have been grossly overbalanced. But put that horizon in at an angle? Balance AND dynamic all in one cheap trick :D

    Wassermelone on
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    Radar6590Radar6590 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    You, sir, are the winner.

    Radar6590 on
    My DeviantArt
    Loomdun wrote: »
    ...And I am being hulked enraged by multiple things right now and I will destroy you
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    D-RobeD-Robe Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I think we need a few more paintovers.

    D-Robe on
    Cheese.
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    D-Robe wrote: »
    I think we need a few more paintovers.

    I think about 7-9 more should complete our grand work.

    Wassermelone on
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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    and then a vote on who has the best paintover.

    Mustang on
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    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    no no no, your all wrong, shes suppose to be smashing a tiny city

    GODWOMAN-1.jpg

    SOHAPPY-1.gif

    Loomdun on
    splat
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    KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I vote for looney.

    Kendeathwalker on
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    earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Whoa triple paintover! *head asplode*

    earthwormadam on
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Oh HELL no, that paintover crown is MINE!

    runningdog.jpg

    Wassermelone on
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    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    oh shit theres no way I can compete

    Loomdun on
    splat
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I am glad it has come to this.

    Wassermelone - <3

    NightDragon on
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