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Need a bit of legal advice concerning an accident
Calebros
a k a TimesNewPwninRegistered User regular
a k a TimesNewPwninRegistered User regular
So about 6 months or so ago, my girlfriend Crystal was backing out of her parking space (with me in the passenger seat), and was hit by (well technically, hit) an SUV that was driving out of the parking lot. Crystals car hit the SUVs tire, the curvy tire frame thing, and the passenger side door, leaving large scrapes along the side of the SUV.
Now, for the nitty gritty details about the entire situation. Kris was parked in the spot next to a large utility van that is used for a handicapped family on the bottom floor of the apartment, so as far as she could see, there was no one coming. So she backed out. As she backed out, the SUV came driving very quickly out of the parking lot, so fast that Kris' car had enough time to scrape half of the entire damn SUV. Now, normally, you would drive slowly out of a parking lot, making sure you were careful not to hit anything. Slow enough that you could stop in time to not get hit, or at the very least stop as soon as the cars made contact with nothing more than a bump.
Crystal was having a bad morning, and this was the straw that broke the camels back, so she burst into tears. The lady got out of the SUV, asked us if we were OK, assured her that it'd be ok and tried to exchange insurance information with Crystal. Crystals car insure had lapsed by about 1 day, because she had only recieved a warning that it was impending about 3 days before it actually would lapse, and didn't have the money to pay it then. The lady was in a hurry to get to the airport, so she left. Kris and I just went back inside, called out from work, and took the day off the try and relax.
Crystal gets a bill thing from the ladys insurance company a few months later, saying that the total repairs came to about $5000. As we understand it, the lady or her insurance company was supposed to get a quote from a shop for an estimated cost, and we would have a chance to look around and see if we can find a cheaper price somewhere else. We almost assuredly would have been able to, as my father is the manager of the service department at a dealership, and could very easily have helped us out and made the costs minimal. So the ladies insurance company tries to get her to pay a couple times, then seemingly gives up.
About a week ago, Kris gets a letter from some agency saying they can help her with her legal trouble with going to court for the claim (which was the first we heard of this), and just an hour ago we got the official court summons.
Crystals only fault is that her insurance had lapped, but other then that she didn't do anything wrong. However, unfortunately, there is no proof that the woman was driving quickly when she should have been slow going and cautious. There is no proof that we were next to a large white van. There were no witnesses to the accident that werent involved, so it's our word against hers. Neither party called the police, as we should have, as the woman was in a hurry, Crystal was hysterical, and I have no experience with this and had no idea that that was standard operating procedure.
Is it likely she'll be able to get out of paying such a large bill for the repairs (which, by the way, not everything on the report of the work done was related to the damage.) Is there anything Crystal can do?
Now, for the nitty gritty details about the entire situation. Kris was parked in the spot next to a large utility van that is used for a handicapped family on the bottom floor of the apartment, so as far as she could see, there was no one coming. So she backed out. As she backed out, the SUV came driving very quickly out of the parking lot, so fast that Kris' car had enough time to scrape half of the entire damn SUV. Now, normally, you would drive slowly out of a parking lot, making sure you were careful not to hit anything. Slow enough that you could stop in time to not get hit, or at the very least stop as soon as the cars made contact with nothing more than a bump.
Crystal was having a bad morning, and this was the straw that broke the camels back, so she burst into tears. The lady got out of the SUV, asked us if we were OK, assured her that it'd be ok and tried to exchange insurance information with Crystal. Crystals car insure had lapsed by about 1 day, because she had only recieved a warning that it was impending about 3 days before it actually would lapse, and didn't have the money to pay it then. The lady was in a hurry to get to the airport, so she left. Kris and I just went back inside, called out from work, and took the day off the try and relax.
Crystal gets a bill thing from the ladys insurance company a few months later, saying that the total repairs came to about $5000. As we understand it, the lady or her insurance company was supposed to get a quote from a shop for an estimated cost, and we would have a chance to look around and see if we can find a cheaper price somewhere else. We almost assuredly would have been able to, as my father is the manager of the service department at a dealership, and could very easily have helped us out and made the costs minimal. So the ladies insurance company tries to get her to pay a couple times, then seemingly gives up.
About a week ago, Kris gets a letter from some agency saying they can help her with her legal trouble with going to court for the claim (which was the first we heard of this), and just an hour ago we got the official court summons.
Crystals only fault is that her insurance had lapped, but other then that she didn't do anything wrong. However, unfortunately, there is no proof that the woman was driving quickly when she should have been slow going and cautious. There is no proof that we were next to a large white van. There were no witnesses to the accident that werent involved, so it's our word against hers. Neither party called the police, as we should have, as the woman was in a hurry, Crystal was hysterical, and I have no experience with this and had no idea that that was standard operating procedure.
Is it likely she'll be able to get out of paying such a large bill for the repairs (which, by the way, not everything on the report of the work done was related to the damage.) Is there anything Crystal can do?
Calebros on
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But, just reading through what you've written, I'd say you're going to have a hard time getting out of the repairs. It's like how you can rear end someone when they slam on the breaks in front of you for no good reason and are still liable for damages. She backed up into oncoming traffic, and I think that's how any arbiter will see the case, and the fact that you have remitted no sort of payment will not be doing you any favors in court.
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Over half way out of the space, they have to yield to us, correct?
It seems to me that, logically (though probably not legally) that it wouldn't matter if she had insurance or not if it wasn't her fault and she wasn't responsible for the damages.
Edit: "I never got a bill so I forgot to pay it and it lapsed" she says
4,886.18 is a lot of money just to fix some dents and scrapes.
Can we ask for proof that all the work that was done on it was even necessary?
You'll have a hard time from this seeing its the insurance agency versus you. They tend not to throw extra charges into these especially when going into court because they have plenty of experience with this. And repairing a car is almost always expensive which is why a lot of times companies end up writing them off as totaled. Also not sure about Maryland but in almost every state I can think of no the person backing out has to yield the right of way, and its hard to argue that case since you didn't call for local law enforcement to write up the incident.
If it cost the insurance company $4,886.18, they are going to want $4,886.18. They're not there to help you out.
I would just own up, pay the bill and hopefully your girlfriend has learned some valuable lessons. Drive with insurance, back into parking stalls and if you get into an accident that may not be your fault try to handle it properly so you can defend yourself.
Edit: Apparently they can.
This whole damn thing is so frustrating. It wasn't even her fault, but she has to pay because law outweighs logic.
Well just looking at it, you wouldn't think it was $5000 worth of damage. Kris has a dented bumper and some rubber streaks from the tire. The bumper is dented in such a way that you could hit it from the other side and pop it out, and the rubber can be buffed off. I'm sure there are some scratches on the paint somewhere or another, but the point is that how can her car be hurt so little and somehow the SUV was hit with five grand of damage?
So, even though she didn't call the police after the accident, had no insurance, and just pretended the whole thing didn't happen afterwards, you're saying it isn't her fault?
Yea man, it sucks ass that she's having to pay that much, but she's as much to blame as anyone else.
The woman left the accident immediately because she had to get to the air port. What good would calling the police have been?
Having no insurance is her fault, yes, but that wouldn't be an issue if the other woman hadn't sped out of the parking lot, not paying attention to her surroundings. Let me remind you, Crystal was parked next to a large white utility van that there's no way to see around when pulled into the spot.
Not responding to the insurance company was the advice of a lawyer.
You should have called the cops. If you weren't in a hurry it wouldn't matter to you. She was in a hurry. Had you called the cops, she would either have to wait, or much more realistically, she would have left. Meaning she would have left the scene of an accident which would have given you a crazy amount of legal ground. But that's all woulda, coulda, shoulda.
Heres what I would do;
You're going to court, unless you up and pay. Get a quote, or an estimated quote from your father, get the car insured, go to court and explain the situation to the judge. Tell the judge that your father has estimated the job should take X dollars, and that he'll do a full estimate if he's given the chance.
Other then that, this rest soley on her shoulders, and the best you can do is hope the judge will allow your father to do the work, instead of completely siding with the woman and making you pay the damages that her insurance company quoted.
Well part of the problem is that the work is already done. It was done 6 months ago. We thought the insurance company had just dropped it, until we find out that she has a court summons. Even if my dad made an estimate, would they even allow us to just pay that, as that is what we would have paid if they had done the courteous thing and showed us a quote before she up and got it done?
That's another thing that makes me mad. I know they don't HAVE to give us a quote, but it would have been nice. It's not like it was urgent- obviously she could drive the SUV if she got the airport.
This entirely depends on the model of the SUV. It is entirely likely that this could be the total cost. If it were something along the lines of a Lincoln Navigator or Cadillac Escalade it could potentially be more expensive. Luxury vehicles are extremely expensive to repair.
Oh and vmike it was just a Toyota. Nothing fancy. Still, why the hell would something in the rear need to be replaced? The right front tire got the worst of it, the rest were scrapes because the woman drove half the length of her car before stopping.
Live and learn. If something like this ever happens, you need to make sure the police are called, if your insurance lapses, then you need to contact the persons insurance and set up an apointment to have the damage estimated by a company of your choosing (something your insurance would have done for you, hence why you "never go the chance" to estimate it yourself) and never, ever, ever, assume that an insurance company has just "dropped it"
Heres the thing, you're not going to court against her, you're going to court against her insurance company. She is long gone from the picture. They will have highly paid lawyers, and you will not. Call them, see if you can't work out a payment plan, if they refuse, then try it with the judge.
Although, I don't know why the company would deny you a set period of time to pay the damages, that would be against their best interest.
On the evidence presented, the only course of action would depend on your local laws regarding accidents, such as if they must produce quotes for you to choose from, if you're allowed to arrange your own quote, if the SUV driver then has any say on your quote being chosen/denied. The accident itself appears to have been entirely your gf's fault... it would be very difficult to persuade a judge that reversing into the side of someones car was actually their fault. The van being in the way is no defence, its nobody's fault the van was there, and (i assume) it was parked legally. It just meant your gf should have been reversing much more cautiously.
I think if you're lucky you'll be able to reduce the payment by means of some alternative quotes that prove the work is significantly overpriced. But to be frank, i think that ship has sailed, now that the work has already been completed. Still interested in what angle your lawyer is going for though. Best of luck with it, all the same.
Not really my problem though. Its the girlfriend that's in trouble. Either she has to pay it all at once (which she can, but she would have to break her cd which was intended for a house), or hopefully make monthly payments to the insurance company, which as you said I have no idea why they would deny her that as they would see far less money from people if they had to somehow pay all at once.
Now, unless I'm mistaken, most SUV's are 4 doors. Meaning, she hit two panels, probably the front panel, and the left front door panel. Those were probably both removed, undented, sanded down, and repainted.
That's a lot of money, and $5000 isn't that outrageous.
Sure you could have had it done cheaper, but you didn't. And they went a head and did it.
Not that it makes much a difference, but I fail to see how the accident part of this is entirely her fault. There was a large van, and she was backing out as slowly as anyone would. You have to remember, she can only see what's directly behind her, and not was is coming from the far right, behind a truck, at about 20 mph. The other lady can see her tail lights far before Crystal could see her. So how is it not the speeding SUV drivers fault?
Well it wasn't literally half of the car. It was the tire housing curvy thing and most of the way down the front right door. The point is that if you hit a car in a parking lot, you should be driving slow enough to be able to stop upon contact. Not to keep going several more feet. Usually you can see and stop when you see a car backing out, or at least start breaking even though its a bit too late.
If you couldnt see, how do you know she was speeding? Nobody can prove she was speeding, therefore it is no defence. It is not the SUV driver's fault your gf couldnt see either. The van is no defence to either party.
I'm less interested in all that anyway, since you'll never convince anyone it was the SUV drivers fault. I'm more interested in what your lawyer is aiming for by telling your gf not to respond to the insurance company.
Meaning, that didn't hit the front of her car, but the side of her car. So she basically backed into a moving vehicle. If she had been far enough out, then the SUV would have hit her bumper with the front of her car, not the side of her car. Had she been far enough out to have that happen, she would have had the right of way, but until she was far enough out, she has to yield to oncoming cars.
Now, maybe the lady swerved and that's how she avoided getting the front of her SUV hit, but without witnesses, theres no way to prove that. All you have is superficial physical evidence which points to your GF being at fault.
Could there by any chance be cameras in the parking lot this happened in?
If so, it might be worth it to find the tape and see if she was clearly in the right of way, clearing her of fault. But unless you can get something better then the 'he said/she said' you've got right now, you don't legally have a leg to stand on.
The evidence is going to fall in favor of the lady in the SUV, unless you can find another witness or a tape.
That's still two panels. And if you hit the front panel hard enough, it could have been warped to the point of it needing to be replaced.
I dunno. I'm not the lawyer.
Although, and I know it's also something I can't use in any way, there's no proof that we even hit the woman to begin with, since nothing official was reported except for the claim on her end.
Yeah, true. Oh well. Not like I can do much about it anyways. Or rather, not like she can. All I am is a witness, though I don't think I'll be much good in our side of this debacle.
In real terms, if you shopped around, it was probably something like 500 dollars worth in damages if you found a handy repairshop who knew what they were doing. But you didn't, and she probably went to the Toyota dealership, and dealerships are notorious for charging an arm and a leg.
I got into a 3 MPH collision with some guy's Highlander once. It was literally two tiny scrapes above the license plate and a 3 cm crack going from left to right on the back bumper.
It was on lease, and he took it to the dealership. I got the bill in the mail.
$1000 dollars.
Nothing to do in these situations but buck up and pay it, and hope to handle it better the next time.
Like your gf, I didn't call the police and stupidly just agreed to pay and we exchanged insurance info. Not a good idea.
If you exchange info you should always involve the police.
Its cool. I dont want you to think i'm against you or anything here, because i've got no interest in just putting people down for no reason. I'm just trying to look at it all as objectively and neutrally as possible. Hey, if your gf gets out of paying a single dime, i'd be happy for you... but thats pretty unlikely
Anyway, good luck with it, hope you do find an out for your gf's sake. I'd advise her to plan on footing the entire bill though, because honestly that sounds pretty likely, and if it doesnt come to pass then thats just a bonus.
Left?
ruh roh
danger will robinson
Sounds like you're getting fucked, here.
But without a police report, it's your word against the woman's.
I hope we don't get a stupid judge.
cause if not, the existing damage on it is evidence of the crash. You'd be surprised how much they can figure out from examining damage -- experts should be able to take a quick look at it to see whether the impact was enough to damage both sides of an SUV.
Some people get away with driving uninsured for great lengths of time, but all it takes is one accident and no insurance to blow everything up.
LESSON TO BE LEARNED : Always make sure you're insured when you drive.
Now that she has a summons to appear in court, her best bet is to lawyer up, preferably with a lawyer that specializes in insurance cases. And if she ends up having to pay the damages, she should call her own insurance to see if they'll either pay them or re-imburse her. Generally, if you state your case and are nice about it, they will pay the damages for you. It's what you pay that premium for, after all.
Also, if there is a next time, CALL THE POLICE! I don't care if the other party's mother is dying. You get a fucking report. At the very least, you use the camera that's on almost every cell phone and take pictures of the damage to cover your ass. Chances are, the driver knew that she was speeding and could have invented the airport story so you wouldn't bother to call the police.
Sounds like it would be a good idea for your girlfriend to have an attorney unless she's prepared to pay the full amount. It would also be a crazy good idea to find out whether she was actually insured at the time of the accident (it seems like you believe she was not, but there's some confusion on the matter?) If so, she needs to contact HER insurer immediately, because they will pay the claim or have an attorney deal with it.