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Zimbabwe: Modern failure

2

Posts

  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Mugabe is almost universally regarded as a war hero in Africa for his role in ending white minority rule and won the first election in 1980 handily. This is quite simply the reason other African leaders won't do anything about him, its political suicide. Even the ones who secretly want him gone are likely to just wait him out (he's 84).

    I just despair at the whole picture, every report coming out of Zimbabwe is voter intimidation, violence and fucking torture camps. Hell, in the early years of his first tenure as Prime Minister there were even reports of targeted killings of the Ndebele tribe overseen by his allies.

    I'm convinced this guy is simply batshit insane, he needs to go.

    Demiurge on
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  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I was listening to an NPR piece a while back. He destroyed the economy by seizing land from white farmers and giving it to natives with no experience or equipment for industrial farming. Which means yields go in the toilet. Since farming is basically their whole economy, it collapses. This means inflation goes through the roof and it's really hard to get food.

    Mugabe also believes in witchcraft. He's a goddamned idiot who's running his country into the ground. And that's not even looking at all the violence and other dictatorial tactics.

    RandomEngy on
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  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    T.I.A.

    It's really, really hard to solve any African problem, as this thread has already showed us.

    Seriously though, he should just be assassinated. It's not like he doesn't deserve it. Probably would have less bodycount then a military intervention anyway.

    Of course you never know what happens in Africa...might start a countrywide genocide as well (like in Rwanda).

    DarkCrawler on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Seriously though, he should just be assassinated.

    This is not good development policy.

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  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I just despair at the whole picture, every report coming out of Zimbabwe is voter intimidation, violence and fucking torture camps. Hell, in the early years of his first tenure as Prime Minister there were even reports of targeted killings of the Ndebele tribe overseen by his allies.
    Mugabe was directly responsible for the attacks (the Gurkhahind - spelling might be horribly wrong) against the Ndebele people who were largely supporters of the other liberation group/political party, ZAPU, led by Joshua Nkomo. Under his orders the military murdered some 10,000-20,000 people - it went far beyond just "reports of targetted killings".

    Andrew_Jay on
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I just despair at the whole picture, every report coming out of Zimbabwe is voter intimidation, violence and fucking torture camps. Hell, in the early years of his first tenure as Prime Minister there were even reports of targeted killings of the Ndebele tribe overseen by his allies.
    Mugabe was directly responsible for the attacks (the Gurkhahind - spelling might be horribly wrong) against the Ndebele people who were largely supporters of the other liberation group/political party, ZAPU, led by Joshua Nkomo. Under his orders the military murdered some 10,000-20,000 people - it went far beyond just "reports of targetted killings".

    D: Shit, I just pulled the "reports" part from his Wiki article (it wasn't sourced). I'll have to read up on that, fucking hell.

    Demiurge on
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    The linked report regarding sexual violence was disturbing, until it got to mentioning the part where in two decades, the average life expectancy has dropped from 60 to 37 due to HIV and AIDS.

    That's pretty fucking shocking right there.

    Being raped (or raping someone, for that matter) may well be a literal death sentence.

    On top of the mockery of a sham of two mockeries of a sham of a political system and attrocious living / economic conditions, part of me thinks that we (the nations of the world) need to fill that place up with soldiers and set some shit right... and then the more realistic side recognizes that this is unlikely to solve anything and that I need to base my foreign policy beliefs on fewer Bruce Willis movies.

    The whole situation is terrible on a scope I'm not sure I will ever (or would ever want to) grasp.

    Forar on
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  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Aegis wrote: »
    Seriously though, he should just be assassinated.

    This is not good development policy.

    Maybe it could be made to look like an accident? :winky:

    DarkCrawler on
  • unknownsome1unknownsome1 Registered User
    edited July 2008
    I'm not entirely sure how dropping food in Zimbabwe would help. It would probably just mean more food for the dictatorship to seize. Military intervention can actually help and history has shown it can. Just look at WWII, the Korean conflict, Kosovo, Bosnia, and other situations. It just has to be carefully planned. An assassination of the country's dictator could probably work.

    unknownsome1 on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    The linked report regarding sexual violence was disturbing, until it got to mentioning the part where in two decades, the average life expectancy has dropped from 60 to 37 due to HIV and AIDS.

    That's pretty fucking shocking right there.

    Being raped (or raping someone, for that matter) may well be a literal death sentence.

    On top of the mockery of a sham of two mockeries of a sham of a political system and attrocious living / economic conditions, part of me thinks that we (the nations of the world) need to fill that place up with soldiers and set some shit right... and then the more realistic side recognizes that this is unlikely to solve anything and that I need to base my foreign policy beliefs on fewer Bruce Willis movies.

    The whole situation is terrible on a scope I'm not sure I will ever (or would ever want to) grasp.

    And as far as countries go...Zimbabwe isn't the worst.

    Try to think of that. D:

    DarkCrawler on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Back in High School, I believe Sierra Leone was among (if not the highest) culprits for human rights attrocities, but I haven't kept up on it. Is that still the case?

    Forar on
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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    Back in High School, I believe Sierra Leone was among (if not the highest) culprits for human rights attrocities, but I haven't kept up on it. Is that still the case?
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sl.html
    Democracy is slowly being reestablished after the civil war from 1991 to 2002 that resulted in tens of thousands of deaths and the displacement of more than 2 million people (about one-third of the population). The military, which took over full responsibility for security following the departure of UN peacekeepers at the end of 2005, is increasingly developing as a guarantor of the country's stability. The armed forces remained on the sideline during the 2007 presidential election, but still look to the UN Integrated Office in Sierra Leone (UNIOSIL) - a civilian UN mission - to support efforts to consolidate peace. The new government's priorities include furthering development, creating jobs, and stamping out endemic corruption.

    Aldo on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I'm not entirely sure how dropping food in Zimbabwe would help.

    Shouldn't have to, and would probably be redundant. Zimbabwe had quite a large proportion of agriculture exports until Mugabe fucked things up by seizing land. Assuming a situation arises in which he's no longer leader of the country, then an easier (infrastructure was already there) and more practical solution might be to just redevelop their agricultural sector.
    Military intervention can actually help and history has shown it can. Just look at WWII, the Korean conflict, Kosovo, Bosnia, and other situations. It just has to be carefully planned.

    None of those are Sub-Saharan African interventions. Do note, from Mugabe's own platforms, that there is a heavy anti-colonialist sentiment throughout much of Africa. All that a pre-conflict Western military intervention will accomplish is to raise support for Mugabe's suspicions.
    An assassination of the country's dictator could probably work.

    Assassination implies a political agenda, and since figures in Africa typically conduct regime change through coups and rebel uprisings I'm going to assume this political agenda will be based outside of Africa. This will lead to a similar result as above.

    The most favourable development I can see happening is either going to be: 1) the people of Zimbabwe become desperate enough to force Mugabe out (or kill him); 2) A coup happens with the new president being more amenable to actually developing his country, probably having to be influenced by the first option; 3) The AU or similar African regional organizations (I'm looking at you Botswana and South Africa) pressure Zimbabwe politically and economically to either pressure him to step down or enforce changes.

    3 is never going to happen whereas 2 is a coin-toss for motivations of new leader. I'd prefer 1 but I don't see that as being practical unless they have the support of countries mentioned in 3. Of course to get that support you'd have to fix the problems developing in South Africa first, or have some new educated leaders show up within Zimbabwe that actually give a damn about fixing their country.

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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Wasn't that opposition leader promising?

    Aldo on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wasn't that opposition leader promising?

    He was, as far as I could tell from what I'd heard of him, but the lack of structural and international/regional support to get him into power fairly kind of worked against him.

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  • Chake99Chake99 Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    worst country in Africa right now is the D.R. of Congo, right?

    And lots of African leaders don't like the idea of an intervention in Zimbabwe. They aren't all democratic countries to begin with, and an intervention pushed for by 1st world powers is colonialist (woooooooo [scary ghost sound]),

    Chake99 on
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  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Chake99 wrote: »
    worst country in Africa right now is the D.R. of Congo, right?

    And lots of African leaders don't like the idea of an intervention in Zimbabwe. They aren't all democratic countries to begin with, and an intervention pushed for by 1st world powers is colonialist (woooooooo [scary ghost sound]),

    Past a certain point, 'worse' becomes nebulous and probably comes down to 'who dies sooner from AIDS'. Zimbabwe is landlocked, resource rich, and has terrible governance. It is about as bad as you can get.

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  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2008
    an_alt wrote: »
    One of the problems in getting the AU to step in is that many African countries support Zimbabwe and apparently think things aren't all that bad.

    Considering some of the countries that they are in charge of, Zimbabwe isn't that bad by comparison.

    Picardathon on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Aegis wrote: »
    Chake99 wrote: »
    worst country in Africa right now is the D.R. of Congo, right?

    And lots of African leaders don't like the idea of an intervention in Zimbabwe. They aren't all democratic countries to begin with, and an intervention pushed for by 1st world powers is colonialist (woooooooo [scary ghost sound]),

    Past a certain point, 'worse' becomes nebulous and probably comes down to 'who dies sooner from AIDS'. Zimbabwe is landlocked, resource rich, and has terrible governance. It is about as bad as you can get.

    As bad as it is currently I'd say it isn't the worst. The DRC has what - 1/3-1/2 of the country in open, low intensity war. Something like 5 million dead in a decade and no sign of ending anytime soon. That beats Zimbabwe with a giant big stick.

    Then if we look at the Rhodesian (Zimbabwe) Bush War from the mid 60s till 1980 then were I think around 30,000 casualties. From about 1971-2 onwards Rhodesia became a very violent, dangerous place for anyone. More died then than in the current crisis. Which goes to show just how shit it must have been during UDI for such a violent war to go on for so long, yet nothing similar has happened since Mugabe went insane back in 2000. Which surprises me, I had thought they would long since taken to arms

    Kalkino on
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  • Millennium101Millennium101 Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Not to point out the totally obvious, but when you have to differentiate between "bad, worse, really bad, truly awful, clusterfuck of the century," and "democratic happy bunny republic" I don't even know how/where to begin.

    As long as other (and theoretically more "responsible") country's continue to bankroll/support/give a blind pass to assholes like Mugabe, et al, I doubt there will be any sizable action from the UN beyond "hey......stop that."

    Millennium101 on
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  • ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    Well, they took away his Knighthood. I'm sure that means a lot.

    ege02 on
  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Registered User
    edited July 2008
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    Zimmydoom on
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  • ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    ege02 on
  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Registered User
    edited July 2008
    ege02 wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    I probably should have been more specific. I was referring to the "bad parts" of Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, the Congo and the like. Lots of kids go over there doing missionary work and end up in all kinds of trouble.

    Zimmydoom on
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    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
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    Running around and clawing eyelids
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    ege02 wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    I probably should have been more specific. I was referring to the "bad parts" of Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, the Congo and the like. Lots of kids go over there doing missionary work and end up in all kinds of trouble.
    My uncle is accountant with the British council. He's stationed in Zimbabwe at the moment. The state newspaper runs articles accusing him of being the leader of the British den of spies.

    electricitylikesme on
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    ege02 wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    I probably should have been more specific. I was referring to the "bad parts" of Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, the Congo and the like. Lots of kids go over there doing missionary work and end up in all kinds of trouble.
    My uncle is accountant with the British council. He's stationed in Zimbabwe at the moment. The state newspaper runs articles accusing him of being the leader of the British den of spies.

    I guess he doesn't value his life very much.

    Gafoto on
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Gafoto wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    ege02 wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    I probably should have been more specific. I was referring to the "bad parts" of Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, the Congo and the like. Lots of kids go over there doing missionary work and end up in all kinds of trouble.
    My uncle is accountant with the British council. He's stationed in Zimbabwe at the moment. The state newspaper runs articles accusing him of being the leader of the British den of spies.

    I guess he doesn't value his life very much.
    The working theory is that he always wanted to be in the army but really wasn't cut out for it. I mean, this is a guy who volunteers to go to places like Sierra Leone at the time they were killing heaps of people there.

    electricitylikesme on
  • ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    Gafoto wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    ege02 wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    I probably should have been more specific. I was referring to the "bad parts" of Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, the Congo and the like. Lots of kids go over there doing missionary work and end up in all kinds of trouble.
    My uncle is accountant with the British council. He's stationed in Zimbabwe at the moment. The state newspaper runs articles accusing him of being the leader of the British den of spies.

    I guess he doesn't value his life very much.
    The working theory is that he always wanted to be in the army but really wasn't cut out for it. I mean, this is a guy who volunteers to go to places like Sierra Leone at the time they were killing heaps of people there.

    The money must be sweet.

    Accountant for the British Council? He probably lives in a fortress protected by giant robots with lasers coming out of their eyes.

    ege02 on
  • matisyahumatisyahu Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Aegis wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wasn't that opposition leader promising?

    He was, as far as I could tell from what I'd heard of him, but the lack of structural and international/regional support to get him into power fairly kind of worked against him.

    Funny how election fraud will do that to a guy

    matisyahu on
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    ege02 wrote: »
    Gafoto wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    ege02 wrote: »
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    This is why I didn't go to Africa during my year abroad.

    Waaaay too many nightmarish stories of students getting arrested on bullshit charges in some of these countries.

    A friend of mine went to Johannesburg for study abroad and he loved it.

    Then again RoSA is nothing like Zimbabwe et al.

    I probably should have been more specific. I was referring to the "bad parts" of Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, the Congo and the like. Lots of kids go over there doing missionary work and end up in all kinds of trouble.
    My uncle is accountant with the British council. He's stationed in Zimbabwe at the moment. The state newspaper runs articles accusing him of being the leader of the British den of spies.

    I guess he doesn't value his life very much.
    The working theory is that he always wanted to be in the army but really wasn't cut out for it. I mean, this is a guy who volunteers to go to places like Sierra Leone at the time they were killing heaps of people there.

    The money must be sweet.

    Accountant for the British Council? He probably lives in a fortress protected by giant robots with lasers coming out of their eyes.
    Every photo does pretty much have a guy with a machine gun in the background.

    electricitylikesme on
  • JustPlainPavekJustPlainPavek Registered User
    edited July 2008
    For the folks suggesting removal of Mugabe in one form or another as a potential solution, I've got bad news: he is not the only obstacle to restoring some semblance of peace or order in the country. From this report, it sounds like his miltary cronies are not going to give up their power and influence easily, either. Any hopes of a rescue coup by the military seem unlikely right now. What a nightmare.
    President Robert Mugabe summoned his top security officials to a government training center near his home in central Zimbabwe on March 30. In a voice barely audible at first, he informed the leaders of the state security apparatus that had enforced his rule for 28 years that he had lost the presidential vote held the previous day.

    Then Mugabe told the gathering he planned to give up power in a televised speech to the nation the next day, according to the written notes of one participant that were corroborated by two other people with direct knowledge of the meeting.

    But Zimbabwe's military chief, General Constantine Chiwenga, responded that the choice was not Mugabe's alone to make.

    According to two firsthand accounts of the meeting, Chiwenga told Mugabe his military would take control of the country to keep him in office or the president could contest a runoff election, directed in the field by senior army officers supervising a military-style campaign against the opposition.

    Mugabe, the only leader this country has known since its break from white rule nearly three decades ago, agreed to remain in the race and rely on the army to ensure his victory. During an April 8 military planning meeting, according to written notes and the accounts of participants, the plan was given a code name: CIBD. The acronym, which proved apt in the fevered campaign that unfolded over the following weeks, stood for: Coercion. Intimidation. Beating. Displacement.

    JustPlainPavek on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2008
    For the folks suggesting removal of Mugabe in one form or another as a potential solution, I've got bad news: he is not the only obstacle to restoring some semblance of peace or order in the country. From this report, it sounds like his miltary cronies are not going to give up their power and influence easily, either. Any hopes of a rescue coup by the military seem unlikely right now. What a nightmare.
    President Robert Mugabe summoned his top security officials to a government training center near his home in central Zimbabwe on March 30. In a voice barely audible at first, he informed the leaders of the state security apparatus that had enforced his rule for 28 years that he had lost the presidential vote held the previous day.

    Then Mugabe told the gathering he planned to give up power in a televised speech to the nation the next day, according to the written notes of one participant that were corroborated by two other people with direct knowledge of the meeting.

    But Zimbabwe's military chief, General Constantine Chiwenga, responded that the choice was not Mugabe's alone to make.

    According to two firsthand accounts of the meeting, Chiwenga told Mugabe his military would take control of the country to keep him in office or the president could contest a runoff election, directed in the field by senior army officers supervising a military-style campaign against the opposition.

    Mugabe, the only leader this country has known since its break from white rule nearly three decades ago, agreed to remain in the race and rely on the army to ensure his victory. During an April 8 military planning meeting, according to written notes and the accounts of participants, the plan was given a code name: CIBD. The acronym, which proved apt in the fevered campaign that unfolded over the following weeks, stood for: Coercion. Intimidation. Beating. Displacement.

    The military men who have been breaking heads for the past thirty years are is a situation that is impossibly precarious. If Mugabe resigns his popularity with the people of Africa and his status as a world leader makes a trial unlikely. The people surrounding him have no such benefit, and thus pressure him to remain in power as long as possible.
    Hell, the man's what, 84? He could very well be in the army's pocket at this point, and as time goes on the army could essentially take over the country (I see it as similar to Hindenburg in Weimar Germany).

    Picardathon on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    How can a soldier support his leaders when his leaders are turning his country to shit? It seems that with the situation as bad as it is there would be mutinies across the country.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2008
    How can a soldier support his leaders when his leaders are turning his country to shit? It seems that with the situation as bad as it is there would be mutinies across the country.

    Things can turn into complete shit and a well trained soldiers will still follow orders. There's an extremely good example I could use involving a certain European power that existed in the 1940's, but I will not divulge the name of that power for specific reasons.

    Picardathon on
  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Registered User
    edited July 2008
    How can a soldier support his leaders when his leaders are turning his country to shit? It seems that with the situation as bad as it is there would be mutinies across the country.

    Things can turn into complete shit and a well trained soldiers will still follow orders. There's an extremely good example I could use involving a certain European power that existed in the 1940's, but I will not divulge the name of that power for specific reasons.

    Fucking Belgians... :x

    Zimmydoom on
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    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    The other point is that I imagine the military in such countries is fairly brutal with its discipline, so you wouldn't want to mutinying unless a whole unit was going to do it at the same time.

    electricitylikesme on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    How can a soldier support his leaders when his leaders are turning his country to shit? It seems that with the situation as bad as it is there would be mutinies across the country.

    Things can turn into complete shit and a well trained soldiers will still follow orders. There's an extremely good example I could use involving a certain European power that existed in the 1940's, but I will not divulge the name of that power for specific reasons.

    Alternatively, the soldiers could be living quite well, which wouldn't surprise me given this is Africa and wouldn't want to give that up. I doubt very many of them joined the Army out of a sense of patriotism.

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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Well Mugabe has been pretty cunning - in addition to the military he also has created a couple of alternative milita or para military groups since 2000. I can only guess this is in part to ensure that he isn't reliant on just one source of force. If any of those groups attempted a coup or suffered internal dissent then the other groups could potentially intervene to crush it.

    Kalkino on
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  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    The other point is that I imagine the military in such countries is fairly brutal with its discipline, so you wouldn't want to mutinying unless a whole unit was going to do it at the same time.

    And even then, to whom would these units cede power? Tsvangirai is wallowing in exile and in the event of open military upheaval, the entire system (such as it is) would likely fall apart, leaving militia to defer to individual commanders and plunging the region into civil conflict. Incidentally, this is one of the more major reasons not to prescribe military intervention. That and there really isn't anything for us to gain from helping the Zimbabweans retain their democracy.

    The best solution therefore would be to invoke sanctions, declare the country a failed state and move on. Worst case, Zimbabwe would find itself no worse off than most of its neighbors. I love happy endings.

    Glyph on
  • KartanKartan Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Sanctions are pretty much worthless. if you cut off any and all trade with Zimbabwe (half the AU would probably still trade with them), Mugabe would be the last person who starves to death.


    As for the military, it is amazing how much people will put up with if you give them large amounts of power.

    Kartan on
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