How many people think disguises are almost useless? I've heard this multiple times, and I don't believe it myself. But if this is the general consensus, then they needed to be buffed up a little.
I swear every time I put up a disguise I am almost always busted the second the other team sees me. It's like no matter what the circumstances are I still have a big sign over my head that says spy. Doesn't matter if I'm running away from the enemy spawn as someone else, the people in front always turn around and roast me or something equally awful.
I pretty much just shoot everybody that I see, regardless of what team they are on.
its people like you that annoy the shit out of me when i play spy..
I hate both spies and snipers. I'm not saying I think this classes are useless or that it doesn't require a lot of skill to play them. My problem with them is when they kill me I can't think of what I did wrong. When any other class kills me I can improve on my play by thinking to myself maybe I should have switched weapons here, or rocket jumped away, or something like that. When a sniper kills me with a headshot all I can think is I guess I shouldn't have walked out that door. Or if I get stabbed in the back all I can think of is maybe I should be walking backwards all the time.
I hate both spies and snipers. I'm not saying I think this classes are useless or that it doesn't require a lot of skill to play them. My problem with them is when they kill me I can't think of what I did wrong. When any other class kills me I can improve on my play by thinking to myself maybe I should have switched weapons here, or rocket jumped away, or something like that. When a sniper kills me with a headshot all I can think is I guess I shouldn't have walked out that door. Or if I get stabbed in the back all I can think of is maybe I should be walking backwards all the time.
Wrong place at the wrong time. I know this feeling all too well...
How many people think disguises are almost useless? I've heard this multiple times, and I don't believe it myself. But if this is the general consensus, then they needed to be buffed up a little.
I do not at all think disguises are useless. Disguises are extremely helpful, actually, and I'd probably not get much done otherwise.
This is what I think, I don't really understand why I keep hearing from spy guides and other spy players that they are useless and that you should rely almost entirely on the cloak.
It's important to understand what a disguise is and what it is not. A disguise gives you, at most, the outward physical appearance of another class. However, your behavior is a significant part of your total appearance, and if you behave in common "spy" ways (such as making a beeline for the sniper) it's as bad as not wearing the disguise at all. The problem of behavior is further compounded by the fact that you cannot switch, fire, or reload your weapon, all of which are very common actions that most players will be doing most of the time. Assuming you aren't outed any other way (enemy sees you decloak, can't walk through you, etc.), a disguise will still only buy you a few seconds of safety, which is about as long as it'll take someone to figure out you're a sham. Those few seconds may be all you need and should be exploited as much as possible, but generally when people say "Ignore your disguise in favor of your cloak", they're trying to discourage relying on the disguise as the main means of getting within striking range of the enemy. It just doesn't work.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
How many people think disguises are almost useless? I've heard this multiple times, and I don't believe it myself. But if this is the general consensus, then they needed to be buffed up a little.
I swear every time I put up a disguise I am almost always busted the second the other team sees me. It's like no matter what the circumstances are I still have a big sign over my head that says spy. Doesn't matter if I'm running away from the enemy spawn as someone else, the people in front always turn around and roast me or something equally awful.
I pretty much just shoot everybody that I see, regardless of what team they are on.
its people like you that annoy the shit out of me when i play spy..
It's spies like you that annoy me when I play other classes.
When spies disguise they always seem to have approx. 3/4 of their health. That's what I rely on in determining whether someone's a spy or not, if he shows up with 3/4 of his health he almost certainly is.
I think it should be randomized, though that could lead to problems if someone who shows up with 1/5 of his health and doesn't act like he's about to die, etc.
The constant 3/4 always helps me immensely in my spy checking.
I pretty much just shoot everybody that I see, regardless of what team they are on.
As a new engineer, I've gotten into the habit of shotgunning anyone who comes near my little fort.
Empty at least two shotgun blasts into anyone approaching your sentry, that way even if they try to shrug it off and sap your gun anyways, all you need to do is hit them once with anything and they're toast.
Also remember that if you're alone, kill the spy first, then save your gear. Trying to follow him playing Whack-A-Sapper will just get you a pile of rubble and possibly a knife in your spine. Shotgun him until you get in wrench range and then cave in his skull.
Of course if you're an offensive engineer, you'll just hear the sapper attachment voice and immediately prepare to build your replacement gun at a new location.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
When spies disguise they always seem to have approx. 3/4 of their health. That's what I rely on in determining whether someone's a spy or not, if he shows up with 3/4 of his health he almost certainly is.
I think it should be randomized, though that could lead to problems if someone who shows up with 1/5 of his health and doesn't act like he's about to die, etc.
The constant 3/4 always helps me immensely in my spy checking.
Really it should just display how much health you currently have.
When spies disguise they always seem to have approx. 3/4 of their health. That's what I rely on in determining whether someone's a spy or not, if he shows up with 3/4 of his health he almost certainly is.
I think it should be randomized, though that could lead to problems if someone who shows up with 1/5 of his health and doesn't act like he's about to die, etc.
The constant 3/4 always helps me immensely in my spy checking.
Really it should just display how much health you currently have.
Does the spies health level changed when they are hurt and disguised, if so maybe change that.
Having the spy's disguised health reflect his real health would need to be set up so that it would only be the "initial damage" that registered - otherwise it would be even easier to spycheck.
Shoot your teammate. Did his health bar go down a notch? If so, THAT ENGINEER'S A SPY and should probably meet Mr. Wrenchy.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I think having friendly fire off affects spies quite a bit. Not that I want it on... just wish there was a way to have it on that didn't end up ridiculous and unfun.
Edit: Oh yeah, showing current health with FF off would be even sillier.
How many people think disguises are almost useless? I've heard this multiple times, and I don't believe it myself. But if this is the general consensus, then they needed to be buffed up a little.
I swear every time I put up a disguise I am almost always busted the second the other team sees me. It's like no matter what the circumstances are I still have a big sign over my head that says spy. Doesn't matter if I'm running away from the enemy spawn as someone else, the people in front always turn around and roast me or something equally awful.
I pretty much just shoot everybody that I see, regardless of what team they are on.
its people like you that annoy the shit out of me when i play spy..
It's spies like you that annoy me when I play other classes.
im hardcore pyro baby... its just when i do play spy... (14 hrs total..ever...) its hard enough trying to blend in without someone just ejaculating bullets or fire all over me aswell
I think having friendly fire off affects spies quite a bit. Not that I want it on... just wish there was a way to have it on that didn't end up ridiculous and unfun.
Edit: Oh yeah, showing current health with FF off would be even sillier.
Yea, being able to spray people with a flamethrower or shotgun or whatever seems to be the spy's downfall. You'd have to pay a lot more attention to spy-hunting if you might be executing a teammate.
I've never played with FF on, so I don't know how hard it is, but it would need to majorly change tactics I think.
That video is kind of cool, but it seems like the spy in it has a cloak that lasts significantly longer than the real one.
Disguises are definitely useful if only for the fact that sentries won't shoot at you when you have one on (unless you disguise as a member of your own team, forget, and then decloak right in front of one like I always do).
What I'd want as a spy is to be able to either appear to fire (someone on another thread had a good suggestion for a "prop gun" thing that didn't fire real bullets but allowed you to do this while disguised) or to pick a weapon besides the real one. Medic would be a much better disguise if you didn't always show as having the needlegun equipped when you wear it, for instance.
There's few things more satisfying than shooting a long-range flare onto a spy who thought he was getting away with it. I find the resulting flames are more effective than a callout.
Am I alone in using flare gun at all?
Edit: the 'prop gun' sounds like a sweet idea for a Spy unlockable, especially if he had to trade in his real gun for it or something
Spy seems like a strange class because, like the sniper, he is disconnected from the rest of the team. But at the same time the spy would do a lot better if he didn't have to rely only on what he sees but could also tap into the team communication. Obviously hearing his teams chatter re: sentry location is useful but also if the opposing team is making a push, he would know that it would be a prime time to go in for some backstabs.
It's a bit inherently difficult to play because it calls for patience and restraint as well as a large reliance on luck and laziness or neglect on the other teams part.
I can't think of what valve might do for the spy pack, it will be interesting when it comes.
The only thing I was every decent at with spies was to sneak behind enemy lines and destroy teleporters or the odd sniper or engineer.
Ditto..
That video just puts every attempt at spying I've had to shame.
I thought what was good about that video was that even though he's a good spy he wasn't afraid to show that even good spy's regularly get found out, make mistakes, and get killed. It's being smart about your approach and working around the idiosyncrasies that net's you a rare but sweet string of kills .
if friendly fire were on, spies would be a lot better off.
In TFC I was killed several times by morons who wouldn't listen to "I'M NOT A HEAVY" over chat. That, or armor stripping was on and I'd be without armor.
There's few things more satisfying than shooting a long-range flare onto a spy who thought he was getting away with it. I find the resulting flames are more effective than a callout.
Am I alone in using flare gun at all?
The other day I tried to shoot a demoman with flare and hit a cloaked spy that was passing in front of him.
Good times.
Flare gun can be fun just for the ability to light up a stationary Medic/Sniper at long range, but generally speaking those are the situations I try desperately to avoid being in as a Pyro.
That said, crit-flaring a jumping Scout clear across Badlands is fucking awesome.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
The only thing I was every decent at with spies was to sneak behind enemy lines and destroy teleporters or the odd sniper or engineer.
Ditto..
That video just puts every attempt at spying I've had to shame.
I thought what was good about that video was that even though he's a good spy he wasn't afraid to show that even good spy's regularly get found out, make mistakes, and get killed. It's being smart about your approach and working around the idiosyncrasies that net's you a rare but sweet string of kills .
I find the difference between a spy with a high score and one with a low score is really just a matter of luck. It a little bit of skill and a lot of luck to get a huge string of backstabs.
if friendly fire were on, spies would be a lot better off.
In TFC I was killed several times by morons who wouldn't listen to "I'M NOT A HEAVY" over chat. That, or armor stripping was on and I'd be without armor.
Also by me. I find it very offensive that iowa and his team were so incredulous that he was dominated by an engineer.
The only thing I was every decent at with spies was to sneak behind enemy lines and destroy teleporters or the odd sniper or engineer.
Ditto..
That video just puts every attempt at spying I've had to shame.
I thought what was good about that video was that even though he's a good spy he wasn't afraid to show that even good spy's regularly get found out, make mistakes, and get killed. It's being smart about your approach and working around the idiosyncrasies that net's you a rare but sweet string of kills .
I find the difference between a spy with a high score and one with a low score is really just a matter of luck. It a little bit of skill and a lot of luck to get a huge string of backstabs.
I don't know. Whilst the string of backstabs things is admittedly a pretty much based on opportunity, I tend to see good spies maintaining their position in the score's quite regularly. Maybe it's just me.
subedii on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
Good spies also hunt for loners or people lagging in the back of the pack.
As a spy unlockable, I'd like to see a blackjack or something. Higher base damage, still crits from behind, but it's not an instakill, unlike the knife.
Edcrab on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
How many people think disguises are almost useless? I've heard this multiple times, and I don't believe it myself. But if this is the general consensus, then they needed to be buffed up a little.
I do not at all think disguises are useless. Disguises are extremely helpful, actually, and I'd probably not get much done otherwise.
This is what I think, I don't really understand why I keep hearing from spy guides and other spy players that they are useless and that you should rely almost entirely on the cloak.
It's important to understand what a disguise is and what it is not. A disguise gives you, at most, the outward physical appearance of another class. However, your behavior is a significant part of your total appearance, and if you behave in common "spy" ways (such as making a beeline for the sniper) it's as bad as not wearing the disguise at all. The problem of behavior is further compounded by the fact that you cannot switch, fire, or reload your weapon, all of which are very common actions that most players will be doing most of the time. Assuming you aren't outed any other way (enemy sees you decloak, can't walk through you, etc.), a disguise will still only buy you a few seconds of safety, which is about as long as it'll take someone to figure out you're a sham. Those few seconds may be all you need and should be exploited as much as possible, but generally when people say "Ignore your disguise in favor of your cloak", they're trying to discourage relying on the disguise as the main means of getting within striking range of the enemy. It just doesn't work.
I beg to differ, with good enough acting, you can make it more than a few seconds. If you play it well enough, you can fetch a medic's attention in the front lines and lead him to his death. There have been lots of times where I was able to use a disguise to stay in sight for quite a while before I was able to backstab the shit out of an assault or stab and sap an engi. But it's when they bump into me that it all goes to hell, and considering you have to be able to keep your eyes off of your enemy yet keep moving around to keep yourself convincing, it happens a lot. That's why I feel like being able to pass through the enemy only while you're uncloaked and disguised would help a lot. And while I'm at it, it would also help a lot if you could change your "disguise health". Sometimes I want to look like I'm almost dead, sometimes I want to look like I'm at full health, but I have no control over this. I don't care if it ads a level of complication to gameplay, they could make it 3/4 default, and some controls to change this during gameplay.
Posts
its people like you that annoy the shit out of me when i play spy..
if a spy gets behind a charge and just starts going crazy with the knife, he can absolutely shut them down
I never asked for this!
It's important to understand what a disguise is and what it is not. A disguise gives you, at most, the outward physical appearance of another class. However, your behavior is a significant part of your total appearance, and if you behave in common "spy" ways (such as making a beeline for the sniper) it's as bad as not wearing the disguise at all. The problem of behavior is further compounded by the fact that you cannot switch, fire, or reload your weapon, all of which are very common actions that most players will be doing most of the time. Assuming you aren't outed any other way (enemy sees you decloak, can't walk through you, etc.), a disguise will still only buy you a few seconds of safety, which is about as long as it'll take someone to figure out you're a sham. Those few seconds may be all you need and should be exploited as much as possible, but generally when people say "Ignore your disguise in favor of your cloak", they're trying to discourage relying on the disguise as the main means of getting within striking range of the enemy. It just doesn't work.
It's spies like you that annoy me when I play other classes.
I, Spy
When spies disguise they always seem to have approx. 3/4 of their health. That's what I rely on in determining whether someone's a spy or not, if he shows up with 3/4 of his health he almost certainly is.
I think it should be randomized, though that could lead to problems if someone who shows up with 1/5 of his health and doesn't act like he's about to die, etc.
The constant 3/4 always helps me immensely in my spy checking.
Empty at least two shotgun blasts into anyone approaching your sentry, that way even if they try to shrug it off and sap your gun anyways, all you need to do is hit them once with anything and they're toast.
Also remember that if you're alone, kill the spy first, then save your gear. Trying to follow him playing Whack-A-Sapper will just get you a pile of rubble and possibly a knife in your spine. Shotgun him until you get in wrench range and then cave in his skull.
Of course if you're an offensive engineer, you'll just hear the sapper attachment voice and immediately prepare to build your replacement gun at a new location.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I never asked for this!
It doesn't do that? That seems silly.
Having the spy's disguised health reflect his real health would need to be set up so that it would only be the "initial damage" that registered - otherwise it would be even easier to spycheck.
Shoot your teammate. Did his health bar go down a notch? If so, THAT ENGINEER'S A SPY and should probably meet Mr. Wrenchy.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Edit: Oh yeah, showing current health with FF off would be even sillier.
im hardcore pyro baby... its just when i do play spy... (14 hrs total..ever...) its hard enough trying to blend in without someone just ejaculating bullets or fire all over me aswell
That video just puts every attempt at spying I've had to shame.
I never asked for this!
Yea, being able to spray people with a flamethrower or shotgun or whatever seems to be the spy's downfall. You'd have to pay a lot more attention to spy-hunting if you might be executing a teammate.
I've never played with FF on, so I don't know how hard it is, but it would need to majorly change tactics I think.
Disguises are definitely useful if only for the fact that sentries won't shoot at you when you have one on (unless you disguise as a member of your own team, forget, and then decloak right in front of one like I always do).
What I'd want as a spy is to be able to either appear to fire (someone on another thread had a good suggestion for a "prop gun" thing that didn't fire real bullets but allowed you to do this while disguised) or to pick a weapon besides the real one. Medic would be a much better disguise if you didn't always show as having the needlegun equipped when you wear it, for instance.
Am I alone in using flare gun at all?
Edit: the 'prop gun' sounds like a sweet idea for a Spy unlockable, especially if he had to trade in his real gun for it or something
It's a bit inherently difficult to play because it calls for patience and restraint as well as a large reliance on luck and laziness or neglect on the other teams part.
I can't think of what valve might do for the spy pack, it will be interesting when it comes.
I thought what was good about that video was that even though he's a good spy he wasn't afraid to show that even good spy's regularly get found out, make mistakes, and get killed. It's being smart about your approach and working around the idiosyncrasies that net's you a rare but sweet string of kills .
In TFC I was killed several times by morons who wouldn't listen to "I'M NOT A HEAVY" over chat. That, or armor stripping was on and I'd be without armor.
Good times.
That said, crit-flaring a jumping Scout clear across Badlands is fucking awesome.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Yeah I looked into calling for that guy's banning since he was shooting nades through the gate. What a douche, that guy was :P
I never asked for this!
8-)
touche
I don't know. Whilst the string of backstabs things is admittedly a pretty much based on opportunity, I tend to see good spies maintaining their position in the score's quite regularly. Maybe it's just me.
No one in their right mind would use that, crab.
I beg to differ, with good enough acting, you can make it more than a few seconds. If you play it well enough, you can fetch a medic's attention in the front lines and lead him to his death. There have been lots of times where I was able to use a disguise to stay in sight for quite a while before I was able to backstab the shit out of an assault or stab and sap an engi. But it's when they bump into me that it all goes to hell, and considering you have to be able to keep your eyes off of your enemy yet keep moving around to keep yourself convincing, it happens a lot. That's why I feel like being able to pass through the enemy only while you're uncloaked and disguised would help a lot. And while I'm at it, it would also help a lot if you could change your "disguise health". Sometimes I want to look like I'm almost dead, sometimes I want to look like I'm at full health, but I have no control over this. I don't care if it ads a level of complication to gameplay, they could make it 3/4 default, and some controls to change this during gameplay.
Don't listen to Zen he is a horrible person/player/child molester.
Also one of the problems on PA is knowing each other too well, I see Gayrannus running around as a medic and for sure I am spy checkin'.
You should listen to me because I'm a child molester.
I know what it takes to do it from behind.