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The Mac Thread - New Laptops and an Overpriced Cinema Display

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Posts

  • DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I wouldn't call windows less polished technology. Any time someone compares the two OS's (and yes, we can only compare OS's, hardware is irrelevant and detracts) on equal hardware, they come up about the same in performance. Anytime someone uses Mac and it consistently crashes, its the user's fault, or the hardware (I see this often at work.) Anytime I see Windows systems crash, its cause of the user or the hardware (again, often.)

    Most technically minded would want to use Linux or Windows over Mac because quite simply, theres more options. Less so with Vista then compared to XP, but there really is more on the Windows platform. That's not to say Mac doesn't have options, because it does. But whatever a Mac can't do, a Windows/Linux based system can - lets just put it that way. It's not necessarily Mac's fault per se, it's about developers more than anything. But that doesn't make the argument invalid.

    What sort of thing is this that Mac's "can't" do? (Gaming is a legitimate point, but that also applies to Linux). There are things that you can do on Windows/Linux with a fair amount of work, but can't be done with the simple the Mac GUI. That's hardly a surprise - although Macs are known for being "easy to use" and whatnot, it doesn't make sense that a task that would take you a lot of effort in Linux/Windows could be done in a few clicks. It is just an OS, not some sort of super-computing power. But if you put in an equivalent amount of time in the OS X command line, you can do anything you can do in Linux. Let's put it this way: Mac OS is a fully Unix-compliant OS based on BSD. Logically, how can there be things that you can do in BSD but not in OS X, provided you are willing to put in the time and effort?

    DeathPrawn on
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  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Ah, I was hoping we'd get to this. Now the argument has fully cycled for both sides.

    Mac: Why should I put in the time and effort when I can easily do it on a Mac?
    PC: Why should I put in the time and effort when I can also easily do it on a PC?

    Mac has served me on all my needs. But sometimes, when to do a task, like do efficient video and audio editing, or play games (which I do, i'm a gamer), I can only turn to a PC. Thats not to say Mac doesnt have a good library, it does, but the library doesn't always have all the options. I guarantee you that if you dont like something out there for Windows, you WILL find something that suits your needs. And more often than not, they will be Windows exclusives.

    EDIT: Lets not forget Kris's issues. his post is all the way at the top :-P Wish I could help, but I hate the Ipod touch and the iPhone. I'm an HTC smartphone kind of guy.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I honestly couldn't imagine using my MBP without bootcamp/parallels, in some areas the *apps* made for windows are just so much better. One example is video playback, the decoders for mac are..well..shit. It actually takes less resources for me to watch h.264 720P video in media player classic inside a parallels window than it does to run it in VLC mac =\

    taliosfalcon on
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  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I honestly couldn't imagine using my MBP without bootcamp/parallels
    Yeah, me neither. I never would have gotten a Mac if it weren't for Bootcamp.

    As it is, the Mac gives you more or less the best of both worlds (except for hardcore gaming).

    Zoolander on
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Fuck, guys, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to incite the whole BS fanboy wars in this thread.

    maximumzero on
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  • theantipoptheantipop Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    theantipop wrote: »
    dodos wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel that by using Apple's computing products that you're limiting yourself with what's available in the world of computers today? For instance, if you want to use Mac OS X you can only buy an Apple Macbook or iMac. But if you want to use Windows or Linux, you can buy from a wealth of laptop and computer providers or even build your own. I guess it goes back to the anomaly of Apple not licensing it's OS to any other computer provider, but I just wanted some input on what other people thought.

    No.

    My new job that I started two weeks ago is all Windows based. Honestly I haven't touched Windows for about 5 years now and having to use it again is just painful, absolutely painful.

    And unreliable, my god. So many pointless lockups.

    Coming home to my iMac every day after using Windows for 9 hours is like....[I can't think of a good enough analogy for this situation] good.

    My Macbook locks up and has program crashes more than my Windows and Linux boxes. Using Firefox is like playing hangman. Maybe your work computers suck, but I haven't seen a blue screen in 4-5 years and very rarely ever have to kill anything but Steam. Linux, on the other hand, has only been weak to flash because of the shitty plugin.

    Firefox on mac is iffy. Bad coding on the side of Mozilla

    I'm sorry, but if your macbook is locking up it sure as hell isn't the fault of Firefox. It's a user space program, if it is locking up then i'd say something else is at fault. (like a daemon or hardware fault)

    And second Firefox has been rock solid on both my older Macbook and newer Macbook Pro, if you're having problems then i'd say it's probably your own fault. I'd try a clean install of Firefox if I were you, remove the application then go into ~/Library/Application Support and remove the mozilla and firefox directories. (making sure you backup any bookmarks etc beforehand)

    I'd place good money on it being an iffy add-on.

    I don't use any addons in my Mac install. I'm not even sure if I have flash installed. I barely use my Macbook, the only programs I've added are VLC and Firefox, beside that it's basically an untouched but patched up version of Tiger. I pretty much only use it for web browsing when I'm out of town.

    I've also had a couple scary experiences with system updates freezing and locking up the OS or restarts for firmware updates just staying in the preboot sequence (fans spun up, screen blank). Luckily restarts have fixed the problems without issue, but it just takes one time of a partial patch to hose the system.

    theantipop on
  • dodosdodos Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Fuck, guys, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to incite the whole BS fanboy wars in this thread.

    You didn't, it was my first question on the previous page. I wanted to incite the discussion of the worlds of the operating system and what they allow us to do or restrict from doing.

    Obviously there's no "best". There's no OS that's clearly the king with the trophy and gold stars as both are widely used across the world (sorry Linux, you're still not and won't be mainstream). That isn't to say Linux isn't viable, it's also built on UNIX. The only problem with Linux has been previously mentioned; the hardware issues are so prevalent that the compatibility is somewhat limited (such as Wireless on a Macbook Pro). What I wanted to discuss or bring up is whether the people using Macs feel as restricted as I do because it's a one computer company=the fabled Mac OS X operating system deal versus the many computer companies=flavors of windows and I've gotten some great responses.

    However, I'd personally like for the discussion to continue on the behalf of what makes each unique. People have posted that Windows has great decoding ability for high-quality videos. That's funny because Mac OS X has some of the best video editing software available (Final Cut Pro). What else offsets one and benefits another?

    dodos on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Most technically minded would want to use Linux or Windows over Mac because quite simply, theres more options. Less so with Vista then compared to XP, but there really is more on the Windows platform. That's not to say Mac doesn't have options, because it does. But whatever a Mac can't do, a Windows/Linux based system can - lets just put it that way. It's not necessarily Mac's fault per se, it's about developers more than anything. But that doesn't make the argument invalid.

    See, I have a hard time buying this. Most technically minded people would prefer to use third-party hardware, since if you know what you're doing there's a significant cash advantage. But you said you're not thinking about hardware. And in OS X you're always a click away from an actual, real, actual BSD shell. So I guess you're talking about the software library? But that still doesn't make sense, since 90% of Linux software can be installed on OS X without much hassle. So I guess you're talking about... games?

    I mean, I really don't know what you're saying.

    Adrien on
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  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    dodos wrote: »
    Fuck, guys, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to incite the whole BS fanboy wars in this thread.

    You didn't, it was my first question on the previous page. I wanted to incite the discussion of the worlds of the operating system and what they allow us to do or restrict from doing.

    Thanks for that.

    *sigh*

    Lewisham on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    dodos wrote: »
    Fuck, guys, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to incite the whole BS fanboy wars in this thread.

    You didn't, it was my first question on the previous page. I wanted to incite the discussion of the worlds of the operating system and what they allow us to do or restrict from doing.

    Obviously there's no "best". There's no OS that's clearly the king with the trophy and gold stars as both are widely used across the world (sorry Linux, you're still not and won't be mainstream). That isn't to say Linux isn't viable, it's also built on UNIX. The only problem with Linux has been previously mentioned; the hardware issues are so prevalent that the compatibility is somewhat limited (such as Wireless on a Macbook Pro). What I wanted to discuss or bring up is whether the people using Macs feel as restricted as I do because it's a one computer company=the fabled Mac OS X operating system deal versus the many computer companies=flavors of windows and I've gotten some great responses.

    However, I'd personally like for the discussion to continue on the behalf of what makes each unique. People have posted that Windows has great decoding ability for high-quality videos. That's funny because Mac OS X has some of the best video editing software available (Final Cut Pro). What else offsets one and benefits another?

    Here's essentially the problem:

    Tons of shitty and not so shitty companies making computers - then plopping on the Windows OS. It's a hit or miss. The upside is, you can build your own PC. Any way you want. Hundreds and thousands of customization options. And then you install Windows on it - thats IT.

    With Mac, it's not that simple. It's great because you don't have to sift through tons of crappy companies to find the good ones - you go straight to Apple. But, that's also the downside, one retailer. You can't simply just BUILD a Mac, that's PC territory. You lack the options, the customizability, the openness of the hardware.

    The day Apple releases their OS as a stand alone package that can install on any PC - hardware drivers and all (YAY new graphics cards!) is the day that Mac will take in shitloads of cash and become a rival OS to game on.

    Adrien wrote: »
    Most technically minded would want to use Linux or Windows over Mac because quite simply, theres more options. Less so with Vista then compared to XP, but there really is more on the Windows platform. That's not to say Mac doesn't have options, because it does. But whatever a Mac can't do, a Windows/Linux based system can - lets just put it that way. It's not necessarily Mac's fault per se, it's about developers more than anything. But that doesn't make the argument invalid.

    See, I have a hard time buying this. Most technically minded people would prefer to use third-party hardware, since if you know what you're doing there's a significant cash advantage. But you said you're not thinking about hardware. And in OS X you're always a click away from an actual, real, actual BSD shell. So I guess you're talking about the software library? But that still doesn't make sense, since 90% of Linux software can be installed on OS X without much hassle. So I guess you're talking about... games?

    I mean, I really don't know what you're saying.

    Read my previous replies and you will. Thanks for following. Oh, you'd also notice the software thing was more for Windows than anything. Theres no debate for mac vs. linux. That's a downhill fight, and one that doesnt need elaboration.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2008
    Blargh. Someone PM me when it's over.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    It should be over. Continue on with the discussion. It's just painstaking to see people blame any one OS for hardware/user problems. It's like when I had to convince my uncle that it was OK to use Firefox even though it wasn't "Microsoft sanctioned."

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    I honestly couldn't imagine using my MBP without bootcamp/parallels
    Yeah, me neither. I never would have gotten a Mac if it weren't for Bootcamp.

    As it is, the Mac gives you more or less the best of both worlds (except for hardcore gaming).

    For what it's worth this goes for me too. At the time they released the MBP I was facing the difficult decision of either replacing my old iBook or building a new gaming box.

    Adrien on
    tmkm.jpg
  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    So what do you guys recommend for a Mac FTP client? I'd like to grab some files off of my Windows machine over my home network.

    Mike Danger on
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  • KrisKris Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    So what do you guys recommend for a Mac FTP client? I'd like to grab some files off of my Windows machine over my home network.

    Cyberduck, Cyberduck, Cyberduck.

    Kris on
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Did anyone answer my question about Gamepads yet?

    maximumzero on
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  • DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Did anyone answer my question about Gamepads yet?

    Someone has made a driver to use 360 controllers on the 360:

    http://tattiebogle.net/index.php/ProjectRoot/Xbox360Controller/OsxDriver

    I can't comment on how it works with regular wireless controllers, but I've had no trouble using it for my USB Rock Band instruments.

    DeathPrawn on
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  • smokmnkysmokmnky Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    quick question, I updated my sisters iPhone to 2.0 on my PC with my itunes and now every time
    she tries to download an app it wants to use my iTunes account. Can I change this?

    smokmnky on
  • PatboyXPatboyX Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Any good iPod Touch apps?
    Free is best, of course.

    PatboyX on
    "lenny bruce is not afraid..."
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  • dodosdodos Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Pandora and Shazam are both worth mentioning.

    dodos on
  • Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Major East CoastRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    So, I have a problem. Two really.

    Technical one first.
    I installed XP Pro via boot camp. Followed the instructions, let the Leopard CD install all the drivers, etc. Everything is fine EXCEPT my wireless internet. It keeps saying it cannot find the certificate to allow me access.

    Non-Technical one.
    I literally just got this machine yesterday from Best Buy, having totally forgot about my student status and the "free iPod" offer. Is there any way to salvage this? I don't really care as much about the 10% off as I do about the free iPod (via rebate yes but free still).

    Iceman.USAF on
  • KrisKris Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Non-Technical one.
    I literally just got this machine yesterday from Best Buy, having totally forgot about my student status and the "free iPod" offer. Is there any way to salvage this? I don't really care as much about the 10% off as I do about the free iPod (via rebate yes but free still).

    Well, as long as Best Buy doesn't have an issue with hardware returns within a certain time-frame, just package it up, take it back, then re-order a new one from Apple (only way to get the free iPod offer I believe). Not sure what Best Buy's return policy is like though. Should say on the receipt.

    Kris on
  • Tw4winTw4win Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Tw4win wrote: »
    I've noticed that the screen on my Macbook Pro doesn't fit flush to the rest of the computer when I close the laptop lid. The left and right side seem to "warp" up a bit - nothing too bad but enough that you can see it.

    I've heard that this is a known issue and that it's caused by heat.

    I don't know if it's caused by heat. I was under the impression it was just a manufacturing flaw.

    You can't get rid of it, only learn to accept it and move on. It took me a couple of weeks to get over it too. I was trying to bend the thing back into shape... putting heavy books on it... all sorts of shit. Nothing worked.

    Thanks. That made me feel a lot better. I noticed it awhile ago, freaked out, and googled it. I ended up reading a bunch of forums of really anal retentive people talking about sending their macs back for repair countless times for this issue. That didn't help my freaked out feeling.

    As long as it's totally cosmetic I won't worry about it...


    Now, a question regarding Linux. Is there any reason to run a virtual machine with linux installed on it other than the novelty of having the OS installed? Meaning, is there any application that is done better on linux than it is on OS X or XP? If so, what distro should I think about installing and how much disc space should I allow it to use?

    Tw4win on
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  • The Reverend Dr GalactusThe Reverend Dr Galactus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Tw4win wrote: »
    I've noticed that the screen on my Macbook Pro doesn't fit flush to the rest of the computer when I close the laptop lid. The left and right side seem to "warp" up a bit - nothing too bad but enough that you can see it.

    I've heard that this is a known issue and that it's caused by heat.

    I don't know if it's caused by heat. I was under the impression it was just a manufacturing flaw.

    You can't get rid of it, only learn to accept it and move on. It took me a couple of weeks to get over it too. I was trying to bend the thing back into shape... putting heavy books on it... all sorts of shit. Nothing worked.

    I went through that alarm > attempted remedy > acceptance process too when I bought that closeout MBP in the spring, although it still ended up going back for the backlight, went out of stock, and ultimately resulted in my still posting here from this vintage machine instead.

    The Reverend Dr Galactus on
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  • bashbash Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Now, a question regarding Linux. Is there any reason to run a virtual machine with linux installed on it other than the novelty of having the OS installed? Meaning, is there any application that is done better on linux than it is on OS X or XP?

    No. Installing Linux is pointless wanking* unless there is something you know you need that is only available through Linux. In a world where a significant percentage of "Linux" applications compile and run fine on OSX there's little reason to use a non-VM install of it on a Mac. If you were running Windows on a PC there's plenty of utility to be had installing Linux, on the Mac you've already got the underlying Unix-like functionality and lots of FOSS apps are a MacPorts install away.

    * Today's Mac is a fully certified Unix machine, much of what can be done on Linux can be done on a Mac out of the box.

    bash on
    comi-sig1.jpg
  • theantipoptheantipop Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    bash wrote: »
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Now, a question regarding Linux. Is there any reason to run a virtual machine with linux installed on it other than the novelty of having the OS installed? Meaning, is there any application that is done better on linux than it is on OS X or XP?

    No. Installing Linux is pointless wanking* unless there is something you know you need that is only available through Linux. In a world where a significant percentage of "Linux" applications compile and run fine on OSX there's little reason to use a non-VM install of it on a Mac. If you were running Windows on a PC there's plenty of utility to be had installing Linux, on the Mac you've already got the underlying Unix-like functionality and lots of FOSS apps are a MacPorts install away.

    * Today's Mac is a fully certified Unix machine, much of what can be done on Linux can be done on a Mac out of the box.

    Well, you're forgetting one big one. Linux is free and runs excellently on old hardware, hardware that you can't install OSX on at all. Also, the package managers in most distros are absolutely fantastic. A lot of projects are written for Gnome and wouldn't be just a simple recompile to use in X on OSX not that I've found a lot of Gnome-only apps that are worth using Gnome specifically for.

    theantipop on
  • KrisKris Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    He was talking about running a Linux VM from within OS X though, wasn't he? Which would make the "runs on hardware OS X won't" thing pointless.

    Kris on
  • theantipoptheantipop Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Oh right.

    theantipop on
  • Desert_Eagle25Desert_Eagle25 Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Who the hell would run a Linux VM on OS X though? That wasn't even mentioned.

    Desert_Eagle25 on
  • KrisKris Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Who the hell would run a Linux VM on OS X though? That wasn't even mentioned.
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Now, a question regarding Linux. Is there any reason to run a virtual machine with linux installed on it other than the novelty of having the OS installed? Meaning, is there any application that is done better on linux than it is on OS X or XP? If so, what distro should I think about installing and how much disc space should I allow it to use?

    Kris on
  • TrentusTrentus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    theantipop wrote: »
    I've also had a couple scary experiences with system updates freezing and locking up the OS or restarts for firmware updates just staying in the preboot sequence (fans spun up, screen blank). Luckily restarts have fixed the problems without issue, but it just takes one time of a partial patch to hose the system.

    I always make a habit of doing a permissions repair before installing an OS X update. I've forgotten a few times, and thankfully everything has gone smoothly. But there were too many times when I was updating or building new images at work where I would go off and do something and then just install the OS update. It would try and restart, and I would just get the grey apple logo... a fsck, or a disk repair would just about always fix it, so at least I didn't lose hours of work, but there's always that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you don't know for certain if you can bring it back to life.
    Technical one first.
    I installed XP Pro via boot camp. Followed the instructions, let the Leopard CD install all the drivers, etc. Everything is fine EXCEPT my wireless internet. It keeps saying it cannot find the certificate to allow me access.

    So, when you say wireless internet, do you mean you can't connect to a wireless network, which is how you connect to the internet? Or do you have proper wireless internet (with a little dongle, or a card, or a special modem)?

    Trentus on
  • Tw4winTw4win Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Tw4win wrote: »
    I've noticed that the screen on my Macbook Pro doesn't fit flush to the rest of the computer when I close the laptop lid. The left and right side seem to "warp" up a bit - nothing too bad but enough that you can see it.

    I've heard that this is a known issue and that it's caused by heat.

    I don't know if it's caused by heat. I was under the impression it was just a manufacturing flaw.

    You can't get rid of it, only learn to accept it and move on. It took me a couple of weeks to get over it too. I was trying to bend the thing back into shape... putting heavy books on it... all sorts of shit. Nothing worked.

    I went through that alarm > attempted remedy > acceptance process too when I bought that closeout MBP in the spring, although it still ended up going back for the backlight, went out of stock, and ultimately resulted in my still posting here from this vintage machine instead.

    My backlight seems to be fine. Is there anything I need to look out for there?

    Thanks for the Linux answers everyone - thinking about installing linux is just an old habit from owning PCs for so long...

    Next question - What do most people use as their development environment on the Mac? I need to write simple C++ programs from time to time...

    Tw4win on
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  • noobertnoobert Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Next question - What do most people use as their development environment on the Mac? I need to write simple C++ programs from time to time...

    Windows here....

    noobert on
  • KrisKris Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Next question - What do most people use as their development environment on the Mac? I need to write simple C++ programs from time to time...

    I've never spent much time with C++, so I dunno if there is an IDE of choice on the mac for it, but XCode will do the job if you care to use it.

    As for myself, I do all my Java work (Eclipse) and Python learning (IDLE at the moment) on my mac partition, and all my .NET work (VS2008) on my windows partition.

    Kris on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tw4win wrote: »

    Thanks for the Linux answers everyone - thinking about installing linux is just an old habit from owning PCs for so long...

    Next question - What do most people use as their development environment on the Mac? I need to write simple C++ programs from time to time...

    XCode works well for me. For small projects, TextMate is pretty unbeatable.

    Also, don't forget you can always use MacPorts if there is a Linux program you greatly miss.

    Lewisham on
  • WulfWulf Disciple of Tzeentch The Void... (New Jersey)Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Lewisham wrote: »
    Tw4win wrote: »

    Thanks for the Linux answers everyone - thinking about installing linux is just an old habit from owning PCs for so long...

    Next question - What do most people use as their development environment on the Mac? I need to write simple C++ programs from time to time...

    XCode works well for me. For small projects, TextMate is pretty unbeatable.

    Also, don't forget you can always use MacPorts if there is a Linux program you greatly miss.

    Yeah, Xcode is my besterest friend.

    Wulf on
    Everyone needs a little Chaos!
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2008
    On a development-related note, what's the key combination for # ?

    I don't actually have that symbol anywhere on my Powerbook G4 keyboard and it makes creating CSS somewhat...difficult.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    On a development-related note, what's the key combination for # ?

    I don't actually have that symbol anywhere on my Powerbook G4 keyboard and it makes creating CSS somewhat...difficult.

    Alt+3.

    The lack of a hash key on the Anglicised keyboards is really annoying.

    Lewisham on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited July 2008
    Backslash on alt-shift-7 in the Swedish layout annoys the crap out of me.

    Echo on
  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    Backslash on alt-shift-7 in the Swedish layout annoys the crap out of me.

    Goddamn, that's a fuck.

    Hey Apple: Stop putting common programming keys on bizarre key combinations.

    Or start putting programming teams in the UK and Sweden, and see how they fucking like it.

    Lewisham on
This discussion has been closed.