Bass Halfstack/Head Purchase

Scrublet

I'm taking the plunge very soon here and buying some Ampeg hardware. Pretty much decided on the B-2RE as a head, but I'm still not 100% sure what half-stack (4x10) I'm going to get. There are a couple things I've been looking to have answered:

1. Usually for these heads, power output is listed at 4 and 8 ohms. What does this mean in terms of sound? I understand that ohms usually measure resistance...

2. How much can you trust the used market on these things? I've seen some pretty good deals on Ebay and such, but with sound there's virtually nothing you can glean from the descriptions.

3. What do I need to be aware of in terms of the Voice coil/magnet weight specs? What other things might I not know off the top of my head?

Any other experiences anyone has with specific SVT and B series half-stacks is more than welcome. Thanks!

Pheezer

Your amplifier's output will be rated at a given resistance, 4 or 8 ohms. You need to match that to the cabinet's rated power handling at the same resistance. Typically you run at 8 ohms, but you can Y-cable your amp into two inputs on some cabinets, dropping the resistance in half.

Now I'll tell you right now that you're going to spend more than you should by buying Ampeg hardware, but that's fine, you're just going to ignore me anyhow. Personally I'd push you to a late 70s/early 80s Peavey 400 series amplifier, but that's me.

For your cabinet, I would suggest that Crate will give you a better deal on a large cab than the vast majority of competitors, and that their large cabs have preeeeeetty sweet tone. I use a 4x10, 400W @ 8 Ohms. It can handle a little more than my head can dish out, but headroom is rarely a bad thing.

Also, if you can't repair a head unit yourself or get cheap repairs done by someone who can, don't buy online. Buy used in person, though.

The markup on new vs. used equipment is pretty much ludicrous. Used equipment will often work just as well, even decades after it was made, too. Save a tonne of cash and buy used, but only buy used locally, after you've personally tested out the gear.

Sir Carcass

Pheezer wrote: »

Peavey

Pheezer wrote: »

you've personally tested out the gear.

It's hard to recommend equipment without an idea of the type of music it will be used for, but at least from my experience with rock oriented music, I've really enjoyed Peavey cabinets and Hartke cabinets. Really, though, most cabinets are going to be good and you'll need to play through them with the specific head you want to get an idea of what sounds best to you. The speakers may seem fairly inconsequential, but they'll make a pretty big impression on your tone.

Scrublet

I've heard of Peavey but never checked them out. I'm doing so now. I've seen Crate in action on the guitar side, but never on the bass side. Any specific impressions on the Tour vs. Pro series coming out of Peavey?

Sir Carcass

Unless you are a pro, I would go with the tour stuff. I have a MAX 700 head, which looks like the Tour 700 took it's place. It's a great head and all you need for just about any club or venue you'd want to play at.

It's up to you, but you're looking at like a $1300 difference between the two lines.

flatlinegraphics

ok, on a solid state head, the resistance of the cab will determine the power output of the head. typically, you cut the resistance in half (8ohm to 4ohm), you double the power. you need to read the back of the amp or the manual to determine how low you can go, and what kind of power you will get at different settings. ampeg typically inflates their output ratings by publishing high wattage specs... at 2ohm. you can cut the resistance by adding more cabs (the amp puts out more power, but it is divided by two cabs), or by buying a lower resistance cab. typically, if you are only going to use one cab, you should look for a 4 ohm cab. if you plan on adding more cabs later, get an 8. this will really not impact the sound much (atleast on a solid state rig. tubes..... whole nother discussion).

i would not really reccoment a y cable. get two SPEAKER cables (not instrument cables). and either plug both into the two taps on the back of the head (parallel - will not effect your impedance and will push out the stated power). or run a cable to one speaker, then from the series out to the next. this will cut your effective impedance in half for the entire load. you will get more power out the head, and probably more volume. also, in any case, if you have more than one cab, try to match impedance as much as possible. otherwise you can get weird loads, or have one speaker working harder than another.

i would heartily recommend against ampeg. anything other than their pro line (svtii pro, svt4 pro), you will be pushing the head to the limits to be heard. also, for cabs recommending crates over ampegs is fine, as long as you know they are both the same company. and ampeg cabs need ALOT of power to really sing. an svtii pro and an svt 8x10 cranked sound great. anything else... meh. hlf models, maybe.

new, i would highly reccomend avatar speakers. avatarspeakers.com. peavey speakers are also pretty damn nice. the heads are ok. not too much charecter, which may or may not be something to look for.

heads, really look locally and look used. if you are patient, you can find really great deals. i found a sunn 1200s and an eden 410dxlt for 1k. louder than god. but if you are set on the b2r, save your reciept until after a session with a drummer. it may be totally fine. but again, i find ampegs generally underpowered and mushy. ymmv.

for the 2) most brand name stuff is made for touring. if it looks abused, it was. but that doesn;t mean that its crap, or that it doesn;t work. but look locally, or somewhere where you can try it before you spend your moey.
3) weight and damping are less important than efficiency, and less important that just rocking out. efficiency is another discussion, and rocking out is rocking out.

also, what style of music are you playing and what kind of sound are you looking for?

Scrublet

flatlinegraphics wrote: »

also, what style of music are you playing and what kind of sound are you looking for?

Currently, I'm working on something that puts an emphasis on the upper end of the instrument. I don't want to go a stereotypical direction and say "man I play prog-rock and Tool" because every high-schooler who uses their G-string says that. But the high end is just as important to me as the low-end. For the most part, I stay away from funk and associated slapping/popping. I vary between picking and fingering. Aside from what I've already mentioned, I'm also looking to meet some people that are in a more Rise Against or Thursday direction (though I haven't found people interested so far).

tl;dr is that I'm definitely NOT going on a pro-type setup (though I did try to pull off a sweet ebay auction the other day), but want the head/half-stack for the power. I'll be looking around for local Peavey/Crate dealers and also checking the used market.

Pheezer

@flatline:
I'm sayin' Crate over Ampeg because Crate doesn't have the brand name dollar inflation that comes with the Ampeg name. They also come rated at their 8 Ohm configuration.

Also if you plan to run an amp at 2 Ohms, you'd best be certain that it's 2 Ohm stable. Just because that's how they rated it doesn't mean it ought to be run that way. Peavey's ancient 400 line was 2 Ohm stable though, I'll tell you that much.

flatlinegraphics

Pheezer wrote: »

@flatline:
I'm sayin' Crate over Ampeg because Crate doesn't have the brand name dollar inflation that comes with the Ampeg name. They also come rated at their 8 Ohm configuration.

Also if you plan to run an amp at 2 Ohms, you'd best be certain that it's 2 Ohm stable. Just because that's how they rated it doesn't mean it ought to be run that way. Peavey's ancient 400 line was 2 Ohm stable though, I'll tell you that much.

true.
and most ampeg heads and peaveys are 2ohm stable. but not much else. basically, look at the back of the amp.

to the OP: if you want cleans, i would suggest you stay away from ampegs. ampegs are best known for their distortion. this cab:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-TVX-410-EX-4X10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=600558
should fit your budget and your sound. but as always, go to a store and try EVERYTHING. with your bass (not one off the wall), so that you have a baseline (haha) to compare to. and in the end, find the gear that makes you sound like you, not like what some dude on the internet thinks you should sound like.

Sir Carcass

flatlinegraphics wrote: »

to the OP: if you want cleans, i would suggest you stay away from ampegs. ampegs are best known for their distortion. this cab:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-TVX-410-EX-4X10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=600558
should fit your budget and your sound.

I have that cabinet sitting on top of a Peavey Black Widow 1x15 cabinet, and it has served me well.

Scrublet

The thing that is hurting me is difficulty finding testing locations. Ampeg was my starting point because of reputation, my experience with another person's rig, and ease of access (There is a B2-RE and a B half stack in a store I usually use). I've been trying to run down Peavey, but it's been a pain in the ass. The first dealer in town is a large store, but most of their Peavey is guitar-oriented. There's one other dealer I have yet to try.

Edit: For those of you advising me to check out Crate...I went to their site and their "bass gear" simply includes a bunch of combo amps going up to 220W. Is this all they offer, and you were advising me to play out of one of their guitar-oriented cabs? If so, I want to hear some experience from this, because while I've never played a cab marketed to guitarists through a BASS HEAD, I've played through guitar heads (both on combo amps and a standalone with a cab), and each time it was hands down not a good idea.

flatlinegraphics

no. don't EVER play a bass head into a guitar cab, unless you want little pieces of speaker cone all over your living room.
yes, timmy c from rage uses a guitar amp as part of his sound. he is timmy c. he can do that. you cannot.

crate may currently be only showing guitar stuff and combos online, as they and ampeg are part of the same company. they want to segment the market, as ampeg has very little in the way of guitar amps (currently). but historically, there are a ton of ampeg guitar amps, and crate cabs. hence the "go used if possible" part.

where are you located? if you are patient, you can scrub craigslists (or use a multi list search like http://crazedlist.org/#) and score some good deals. and if you deal locally, you can always pull a "hey can i try it out?" thing. and since most bassists are not douchebags, you can probably go and try it.

also, musiciansfriend has a fairly lenient return policy. call them up and ask about it.

Pheezer

You can run a guitar head into a bass cab, if you're using a bass guitar. You can never run a bass guitar into a guitar cab. Regardless of the amp, it's a bad fuckin' idea unless you've done the math and you know the cones and you've got the headroom.

Here's the other thing you do: Call every place in town that rents any kind of equipment. Ask them if they have any used bass gear they're willing to sell. You'll get a deal. Not as good as buying from a guy who's moved on to louder gear or given up the instrument but not bad all the same.