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Why wouldn't he just call their corporate offices for the States or Europe or wherever he is? It seems that sending e-mails is rather ineffecient if they just ignore them. I'm sure calling the offices and explaining the exploit to someone over the phone would get better results.
And yes, I read his e-mail as threatening too. "Listen to me or else I'll ruin you" was the tone of it. That makes him no better than the pirates he's trying to help Nintendo against.
How is it threatening?
"Hey guys, I tried to tell you about this before, but you don't want to listen. Sorry to have to do this, but I need to fire off a proverbial flare to make you pay attention. Please respond. Thanks."
Yes exactly. That's threatening. He's under no obligation to "fire off a proverbial flare." Releasing his hack to the world because he feels ignored by Nintendo does nothing to help his cause and only hurts Nintendo and himself.
As for calling them, I never said R&D, did I? I'm just saying that if e-mails and a blog post don't get a response, why not try the phone too?
Yes exactly. That's threatening. He's under no obligation to "fire off a proverbial flare." Releasing his hack to the world because he feels ignored by Nintendo does nothing to help his cause and only hurts Nintendo and himself.
Look, this is how security fixes work. User discovers a security hole. User attempts to privately contact vendor with information so vendor can fix it. If vendor does not respond, user publically reveals security hole so vendor is prompted to fix it. This is done because if the benign user who first discovered the hole just sits on it, eventually a malicious user will find the problem and exploit it. This is nothing new and happens with (for example) networking software every goddamn day.
As for calling him, I never said R&D, did I? I'm just saying that if e-mails and a blog post don't get a response, why not try the phone too?
The phone will get him to warranty support. He needs to talk to an actual engineer.
Yes exactly. That's threatening. He's under no obligation to "fire off a proverbial flare." Releasing his hack to the world because he feels ignored by Nintendo does nothing to help his cause and only hurts Nintendo and himself.
Look, this is how security fixes work. User discovers a security hole. User attempts to privately contact vendor with information so vendor can fix it. If vendor does not respond, user publically reveals security hole so vendor is prompted to fix it. This is done because if the benign user who first discovered the hole just sits on it, eventually a malicious user will find the problem and exploit it. This is nothing new and happens with (for example) networking software every goddamn day.
As for calling him, I never said R&D, did I? I'm just saying that if e-mails and a blog post don't get a response, why not try the phone too?
The phone will get him to warranty support. He needs to talk to an actual engineer.
Except this isn't networking software. It's a game console. And again, because the "benign" users tend to alert the companies does not mean there is any obligation to do so. Plus, Nintendo's history of legal battles would probably land him in court for revealing the exploit.
And again, I said to call a corporate office, not the help support line. I just didn't say R&D either. I'm just saying it's worth the fucking effort.
My camera actually wouldn't let me write to the SD card in it from the PC. I didn't really bother looking for a workaround for that, though, so it may have been possible with some tweaking anyway.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
Nintendo Ninjas should put a crack in Bushings Skull.
Nah, seriously. Who cares. Flagrant DS piracy hasn't slowed it down.
I might get another wii if someone makes an HD loader. Quicker load times? Not having to drag my collection around, just a smaller external HD? Yes please.
Why wouldn't he just call their corporate offices for the States or Europe or wherever he is? It seems that sending e-mails is rather ineffecient if they just ignore them. I'm sure calling the offices and explaining the exploit to someone over the phone would get better results.
And yes, I read his e-mail as threatening too. "Listen to me or else I'll ruin you" was the tone of it. That makes him no better than the pirates he's trying to help Nintendo against.
How is it threatening?
"Hey guys, I tried to tell you about this before, but you don't want to listen. Sorry to have to do this, but I need to fire off a proverbial flare to make you pay attention. Please respond. Thanks."
Yes exactly. That's threatening. He's under no obligation to "fire off a proverbial flare." Releasing his hack to the world because he feels ignored by Nintendo does nothing to help his cause and only hurts Nintendo and himself.
As for calling them, I never said R&D, did I? I'm just saying that if e-mails and a blog post don't get a response, why not try the phone too?
He's not saying he'll release it, but that this is time sensitive. Someone else will find it, especially now that they know it exists.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
Of course, then Justin can pirate his merry little ass off. Having bushing try to negotiate a fix means that he might have to beg his mom to buy him the games rather than just a stack of blank DVDRs.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
No. My position is that he made some effort to contact them (granted, he's failed to even try to call them), but releasing his hack to the world doesn't help his cause. As you said, the piracy scene will find it eventually, so why should he make it easier on them? If he really cares about this, he should keep it to himself and when Nintendo cries later, tell them "I told you so."
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
Of course, then Justin can pirate his merry little ass off. Having bushing try to negotiate a fix means that he might have to beg his mom to buy him the games rather than just a stack of blank DVDRs.
I don't even own a god damn Wii. And I don't want one. Thanks for playing though, go back to jail.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
No. My position is that he made some effort to contact them (granted, he's failed to even try to call them), but releasing his hack to the world doesn't help his cause. As you said, the piracy scene will find it eventually, so why should he make it easier on them? If he really cares about this, he should keep it to himself and when Nintendo cries later, tell them "I told you so."
He's making every effort he can to contact them privately first.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
Of course, then Justin can pirate his merry little ass off. Having bushing try to negotiate a fix means that he might have to beg his mom to buy him the games rather than just a stack of blank DVDRs.
I don't even own a god damn Wii. And I don't want one. Thanks for playing though, go back to jail.
Ah, but now you see how I can put words in your mouth too. Thanks for crying.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
No. My position is that he made some effort to contact them (granted, he's failed to even try to call them), but releasing his hack to the world doesn't help his cause. As you said, the piracy scene will find it eventually, so why should he make it easier on them? If he really cares about this, he should keep it to himself and when Nintendo cries later, tell them "I told you so."
He's making every effort he can to contact them privately first.
Security through obscurity is worthless.
I don't consider a fucking blog post as "every effort" but whatever. It was when he also threatened to release it publicly. That's where I differ on his stance.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
No. My position is that he made some effort to contact them (granted, he's failed to even try to call them), but releasing his hack to the world doesn't help his cause. As you said, the piracy scene will find it eventually, so why should he make it easier on them? If he really cares about this, he should keep it to himself and when Nintendo cries later, tell them "I told you so."
He's making every effort he can to contact them privately first.
Security through obscurity is worthless.
I don't consider a fucking blog post as "every effort" but whatever. It was when he also threatened to release it publicly. That's where I differ on his stance.
Yes, because he just posted it openly on the blog rather than trying to contact Nintendo first.
oh wait
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
So, your position is that rather than inform Nintendo of the problem so they can fix it and curtail piracy, bushing should have just sat on the information until the Wii piracy scene picked up on it and used it?
No. My position is that he made some effort to contact them (granted, he's failed to even try to call them), but releasing his hack to the world doesn't help his cause. As you said, the piracy scene will find it eventually, so why should he make it easier on them? If he really cares about this, he should keep it to himself and when Nintendo cries later, tell them "I told you so."
He's making every effort he can to contact them privately first.
Security through obscurity is worthless.
I don't consider a fucking blog post as "every effort" but whatever. It was when he also threatened to release it publicly. That's where I differ on his stance.
This is a blog that is closely monitored by Nintendo because it is where they release the Twilight Hack, the Twilight Hack fix for the latest firmware update, and other general reverse engineering updates. The engineers go here to figure out how he did it.
Holy crap. Something tells me that the anti-piracy home-brew (read: one more guy who wants to make v ideo games) developer probably is more interested in getting in Nintendo's good graces than blackmailing them, publicly, on the internet.
Goodness, people. Ever tried to get in touch with a game dev to tell them about an exploit you discovered? There is a considerable gap between the person who answers the phone at Nintendo and the person who knows what the hell you even mean and how serious it is when you tell them about the security hole you found.
Holy crap. Something tells me that the anti-piracy home-brew (read: one more guy who wants to make v ideo games) developer probably is more interested in getting in Nintendo's good graces than blackmailing them, publicly, on the internet.
Goodness, people. Ever tried to get in touch with a game dev to tell them about an exploit you discovered? There is a considerable gap between the person who answers the phone at Nintendo and the person who knows what the hell you even mean and how serious it is when you tell them about the security hole you found.
This. Anybody who thinks the receptionist at Nintendo Corporate is going to do anything other than get rid of you ASAP when you call obviously has never had a job like that. #1 They won't know who to transfer you to, #2 They don't care, and #3 they won't be wasting their time making their job any harder.
tsmvengy on
0
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
Slashdot says a custom wii firmware has been released that allows DVD-Rs to be read. Neat.
Slashdot says a custom wii firmware has been released that allows DVD-Rs to be read. Neat.
Two things:
1) That wasn't bushing.
corrolary: some other people already know about the security hole
2) The person who released that IOS deliberately set it up so you can't run pirated games with it.
(but clearly it's only a matter of time before it gets hacked).
If I really wanted to get in contact with someone to reveal secret secrets to a big corp I wouldn't call their front reception, I'd either spend a bit of time trying to find a direct dial/extension of someone I wanted to talk to, or write directly to their legal or marketing team. Not guaranteed to work for sure, but more likely to than sending emails to people, given spam etc.
If I had secret secrets I'd email them once and only once and woe onto them if they doubt my powaaaa
If I really wanted to get in contact with them I would drive there.
So, there are degrees of doing this. In the end he is giving them a pretty big courtesy just with what he's done so far. He's really not obligated to contact them at all!
I picture Reggie sitting in a large office, looking up from counting his stack of bills only long enough to utter "we do not negotiate with turrists".
Then again - would Nintendo care? I mean, it's only the hardest of the core who are going to pirate games... it's not like that's any lost revenue for them. *cough*
This is why you make proprietary hardware required to play your new games; pirate the software... but fork over $30 for the newest doodad to make it go.
So worst case scenario is that Wii's become more scarce as Nintendo recalls existing units to update their firmware and we all get a DL patch ?
Worst case scenario is that the Wii is used to power the SHAHAB 4 missile and gamers everywhere are put on no-fly-lists while being subject to random cavity searches.
Yeah, I don't really see them caring - if you want to pirate, a modchip costs less than a new Wii game.
Edit - well, they would care. If you asked them if they cared, they would say yes. But, just not enough to actually do anything substantial. Though I hear they are cracking down on Chinese bootlegs of nes carts recently.
I don't think anyone is not pirating because it costs too much. Saving money is like the whole point.
The benefit to this exploit would be for those people who are too nervous about messing with their precious circuits. And even so, they still have to deal with the fear of a firmware update bricking them or something (depending on the nature of the exploit?).
Yeah, I don't really see them caring - if you want to pirate, a modchip costs less than a new Wii game.
I've no idea how this exploit works, but this is majorly different if you're a pirate all the time person, casual pirate or might pirate pirate.
From what I can discern it's a non-hardware boot anything exploit, in otherwords no hardware modding. So no voiding of warranty so there's no longer the fear of the Wii going pear shaped or not being able to send it back to Nintendo because you're a dirty stinking pirate who has a modchip in there.
From what I can see this is the same kind of thing as the Dreamcast whereby a way was found to boot cd's with no modchip, in otherwords.. download or get your game of choice and plop it in. No hassle needed. I think with the dreamcast it was playing with some kind of audio thing on the cd that tricked the dc into booting code. (can't remember, look it up on wikipedia anyway)
That kind of thing is happening at the moment with the R4 and the DS, lots of people I know who own DS' (as in bought them for their kids) are looking at the prices of DS games, looking at the price of an R4 then making a decision based on their financial situation... and it ain't one Nintendo likes. I seriously doubt it will affect the DS market seriously though, for a few reasons.. the people who make stuff like the R4 will never be able to produce the numbers required to put a dent in the DS market because making hardware takes time, money and engineering knowledge. They simply can't make them in the numbers that Nintendo are putting out DS'.
A CD/DVD though, that's a whole different matter. All you need is a burner and a blank disc. That should worry Nintendo a lot just about everyone who buys nowadays gets a burner with the pc. There really isn't a limit to how many people can make and it isn't a central source or place that can only produce x a month.
If I were Nintendo right now I would be shitting bricks if this is a exploit in the same vein as the Dreamcast exploit.
Thing about the Dreamcast was, it was a small and dying market made up primarily of normal gamers. With the Wii however you've got parents, people of all age groups who will be a lot less loyal than your average gamer when it comes to piracy versus buying. Especially when it comes down to a financial decision.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
I don't know why people are treating the guy like some sort of cyberterrorist, I'm guessing he just wants to be acknowledged for his find instead of just anonymously sending in the info.
From what I can discern it's a non-hardware boot anything exploit, in otherwords no hardware modding. So no voiding of warranty so there's no longer the fear of the Wii going pear shaped or not being able to send it back to Nintendo because you're a dirty stinking pirate who has a modchip in there.
Woah, hey now. Just because you're not making a hardware mod doesn't mean they can't catch you! So far, the exploit (that, again, I must stress does not play pirated games) installs a custom IOS version to the internal NAND flash. Nintendo could easily see that if you sent in your Wii and deny you warranty service on that basis.
A new feature of Firefox 3. It lets you put random keywords in your address bar, and then searches for them in realtime against your history. So I put in words that I knew would be in the title for my history entry of the DS homebrew thread, and it brings it up, way quicker than forum search.
Posts
You can then rent or borrow TP.
Oh okay, I didn't know it worked like that.
Yes exactly. That's threatening. He's under no obligation to "fire off a proverbial flare." Releasing his hack to the world because he feels ignored by Nintendo does nothing to help his cause and only hurts Nintendo and himself.
As for calling them, I never said R&D, did I? I'm just saying that if e-mails and a blog post don't get a response, why not try the phone too?
The phone will get him to warranty support. He needs to talk to an actual engineer.
Except this isn't networking software. It's a game console. And again, because the "benign" users tend to alert the companies does not mean there is any obligation to do so. Plus, Nintendo's history of legal battles would probably land him in court for revealing the exploit.
And again, I said to call a corporate office, not the help support line. I just didn't say R&D either. I'm just saying it's worth the fucking effort.
Nah, seriously. Who cares. Flagrant DS piracy hasn't slowed it down.
I might get another wii if someone makes an HD loader. Quicker load times? Not having to drag my collection around, just a smaller external HD? Yes please.
He's not saying he'll release it, but that this is time sensitive. Someone else will find it, especially now that they know it exists.
Of course, then Justin can pirate his merry little ass off. Having bushing try to negotiate a fix means that he might have to beg his mom to buy him the games rather than just a stack of blank DVDRs.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
No. My position is that he made some effort to contact them (granted, he's failed to even try to call them), but releasing his hack to the world doesn't help his cause. As you said, the piracy scene will find it eventually, so why should he make it easier on them? If he really cares about this, he should keep it to himself and when Nintendo cries later, tell them "I told you so."
I don't even own a god damn Wii. And I don't want one. Thanks for playing though, go back to jail.
He's making every effort he can to contact them privately first.
Security through obscurity is worthless.
Ah, but now you see how I can put words in your mouth too. Thanks for crying.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I don't consider a fucking blog post as "every effort" but whatever. It was when he also threatened to release it publicly. That's where I differ on his stance.
Yes, because he just posted it openly on the blog rather than trying to contact Nintendo first.
oh wait
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
This is a blog that is closely monitored by Nintendo because it is where they release the Twilight Hack, the Twilight Hack fix for the latest firmware update, and other general reverse engineering updates. The engineers go here to figure out how he did it.
Goodness, people. Ever tried to get in touch with a game dev to tell them about an exploit you discovered? There is a considerable gap between the person who answers the phone at Nintendo and the person who knows what the hell you even mean and how serious it is when you tell them about the security hole you found.
This. Anybody who thinks the receptionist at Nintendo Corporate is going to do anything other than get rid of you ASAP when you call obviously has never had a job like that. #1 They won't know who to transfer you to, #2 They don't care, and #3 they won't be wasting their time making their job any harder.
Two things:
1) That wasn't bushing.
corrolary: some other people already know about the security hole
2) The person who released that IOS deliberately set it up so you can't run pirated games with it.
(but clearly it's only a matter of time before it gets hacked).
If I really wanted to get in contact with them I would drive there.
So, there are degrees of doing this. In the end he is giving them a pretty big courtesy just with what he's done so far. He's really not obligated to contact them at all!
Then again - would Nintendo care? I mean, it's only the hardest of the core who are going to pirate games... it's not like that's any lost revenue for them. *cough*
This is why you make proprietary hardware required to play your new games; pirate the software... but fork over $30 for the newest doodad to make it go.
Worst case scenario is that the Wii is used to power the SHAHAB 4 missile and gamers everywhere are put on no-fly-lists while being subject to random cavity searches.
A close second is the scenario you've described.
Edit - well, they would care. If you asked them if they cared, they would say yes. But, just not enough to actually do anything substantial. Though I hear they are cracking down on Chinese bootlegs of nes carts recently.
The benefit to this exploit would be for those people who are too nervous about messing with their precious circuits. And even so, they still have to deal with the fear of a firmware update bricking them or something (depending on the nature of the exploit?).
I've no idea how this exploit works, but this is majorly different if you're a pirate all the time person, casual pirate or might pirate pirate.
From what I can discern it's a non-hardware boot anything exploit, in otherwords no hardware modding. So no voiding of warranty so there's no longer the fear of the Wii going pear shaped or not being able to send it back to Nintendo because you're a dirty stinking pirate who has a modchip in there.
From what I can see this is the same kind of thing as the Dreamcast whereby a way was found to boot cd's with no modchip, in otherwords.. download or get your game of choice and plop it in. No hassle needed. I think with the dreamcast it was playing with some kind of audio thing on the cd that tricked the dc into booting code. (can't remember, look it up on wikipedia anyway)
That kind of thing is happening at the moment with the R4 and the DS, lots of people I know who own DS' (as in bought them for their kids) are looking at the prices of DS games, looking at the price of an R4 then making a decision based on their financial situation... and it ain't one Nintendo likes. I seriously doubt it will affect the DS market seriously though, for a few reasons.. the people who make stuff like the R4 will never be able to produce the numbers required to put a dent in the DS market because making hardware takes time, money and engineering knowledge. They simply can't make them in the numbers that Nintendo are putting out DS'.
A CD/DVD though, that's a whole different matter. All you need is a burner and a blank disc. That should worry Nintendo a lot just about everyone who buys nowadays gets a burner with the pc. There really isn't a limit to how many people can make and it isn't a central source or place that can only produce x a month.
If I were Nintendo right now I would be shitting bricks if this is a exploit in the same vein as the Dreamcast exploit.
Thing about the Dreamcast was, it was a small and dying market made up primarily of normal gamers. With the Wii however you've got parents, people of all age groups who will be a lot less loyal than your average gamer when it comes to piracy versus buying. Especially when it comes down to a financial decision.
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
EDIT: got it, nevermind.
This is why the awesomebar is awesome.
Just typed in "games technoloy homebrew DS" and got it.
Woah, hey now. Just because you're not making a hardware mod doesn't mean they can't catch you! So far, the exploit (that, again, I must stress does not play pirated games) installs a custom IOS version to the internal NAND flash. Nintendo could easily see that if you sent in your Wii and deny you warranty service on that basis.
A new feature of Firefox 3. It lets you put random keywords in your address bar, and then searches for them in realtime against your history. So I put in words that I knew would be in the title for my history entry of the DS homebrew thread, and it brings it up, way quicker than forum search.
Reading this DS homebrew thread... just...
An MP3 player? An internet browser?
This alone has just made me buy an R4.
Firefox 3.
What used to be the navigation bar or some dumb useless shit like that. Now it's the awesome bar.