So I had been enjoying leveling a shaman as enhancement well enough, but then I hit 75 and I was like well, maybe I should try this lava burst thing
and it was pretty good
so good in fact I disenchanted all my enhancement gear, cause, fuck that noise
anyway, how does elemental prioritize caster stats? Crit seems like it wouldn't be that high, because you get so much from talents and mechanics. Is haste really good, then? it doesn't seem like that would be true either, because of the lava burst cooldown.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Listen, I've been both Elemental and Enhance at 80, and Enhance is about 100x more interesting. Lava Burst is seeing a big number every 6 seconds. You can get that better with a mage. And for comparison, I used to raid as a mage full time, so it's not like range casters just "aren't for me."
But to answer your question, the stat importance is basically Hit to cap > Spellpower > Haste to about 500 > Crit
Hit is the most important, obviously. Missing that one LavaBurst or Flame Shock in your rotation would suck. Hit Cap, Imp Faerie Fire/Misery adjusted in brackets. Horde: 368 (289) Alliance: 341 (263).
Spellpower for obvious reasons.
Haste is definitely useful, but you shouldn't gem for it or anything. You'll probably get enough from gear. Around 500 is considered a good spot to aim for.
Crit is the least useful due to Lava Burst always critting with Flame Shock on and you still get a good amount from talents and gear.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Though, Lava Burst is still fairly nice for Enhancement, I've heard. With enough haste, you can cast it fast enough that it doesn't interfere terribly with your autoattacks. "Lava Slam", I think this was called.
I still would like a spell that gives you 5 mw stacks, like on a 2-3 minute cooldown
This would give enhancement a buit more on demand burst, and not be inbalanced
autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I'd like Astral Shift to be at the top of Elemental tree so Enhancement and Resto could pick it up for added PvP survivability.
eh.. enhancement can't pick up many other survival talents either
autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Well, if Astral Shift was up there in the first or second tier or something, I'd make room for it.
Also, they should combine Anticipation with something else. Do people actually spec for that? Even in pure PvP build I can't really find any room for it.
edit: Y'know, fuck that. They should just go crazy and move Astral Shift, Toughness and Nature's Guardian all way up in the trees so all specs could potentially grap them. The same way they have the "mandatory" tanking talents at the first tier of each DK tree.
reVerse on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Better yet, put the disarm-duration reduction from Anticipation into Weapon Mastery, and then just get rid of anticipation altogether.
Edit - Or shit, put it into Improved Windfury Totem so that we can actually double-dip for something.
Henroid on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Better yet, put the disarm-duration reduction from Anticipation into Weapon Mastery, and then just get rid of anticipation altogether.
Yeah, hey, Weapon Mastery. That's where it should go.
Oh man, I remember back when Anticipation was a defense talent, giving 2/4/6/8/10 defense. I had it for offtanking UBRS, Strat and Scholo back when those places were "raids" and 15/10mans.
reVerse on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
It was almost as if they ran out of ideas for enhancement and were like, "Well okay they can carry shields, so just in case let's give them some tanking methods." Those were the good ol' days.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Well I didn't mean immediately.
Earlier this week I got into an argument with a guildie (I certainly wasn't looking for it) over Water Shield. Someone on their shaman alt asked randomly in guildchat, "Anyone remember when Water Shield used to cost mana" and I mused with him about how it was silly, and all of a sudden this guy I knew for a long time in this guild gets on our asses about it and how it "never had a mana cost." He eventually ignored me, and some ten minutes later someone came up with the patch note from 2.3 that removed the mana cost and made water shield only last a minute.
I got my Shaman to 80 and said oh man what now. I needed some rough guidelines for the kind of healing stats, and dps stats (elemental or enhancement) to know when I would be safe to run Heroics or raids. So I scourer around the Shaman thread with not much luck, but then I start reading some of the other class threads here. Oh man some have super sweet first posts with talent specs at end game and rough values you want your dps to be at etc etc.
With that in mind I'm throwing out some numbers in case anyone else me comes along looking for some advice on what is doing for Shaman. Feel free to eat me alive.
Elemental:
For Heroics I'd suggest at least around 1500 dps and probably closer to at least 2000 dps for raids.
I think the most important attributes are spell hit, spell power, Intellect and haste. I believe that is the correct order of importance for raiding. For leveling/questing I would imagine that Stamina, Intellect, and spell power would be paramount. Or at least those were the stats I focused on while leveling.
With Unrelenting Storm converting Intellect into Mana over 5 there is little reason to be overly worried about Mana regeneration. In fact if with Clearcasting and Shamanistic Focus spells are going to be very cheap and Water Shield coupled with Thunderstorm (based off of your Intellect) should really be enough.
Spell critical rating is also curious in that 10 percent bonus critical can be achieved through talents alone, with Elemental Oath provides an additional 5 percent on critical. So as a rotation starts with Flame Shock followed by Lava Burst you would be sitting with a 15 percent higher critical strike chance from the base of level of what your Intellect provides you. That said, I am not sure there is a magic number because Lava Burst is already going to critical each cast and Flame Shocks dots do not currently benefit from critical. Ideally you would want enough to keep Elemental Oath up all the time and as the buff lasts 15 seconds you always get another Lava Burst off with a ticking Flame Shock to ensure the buff never fades.
Of course all of this is useless if you cannot hit that raid boss successfully. The base miss is 17% and Elemental Precision reduces this by 3 percent, leaving us to make up the 14% difference. I have read that based upon raid buffs an additional 3 percent can be ignored. I know I read why and what talents from other classes make this true but at the moment they escape me. Those Draenei among us have this reduced by another 1%, not so lucky for the Horde. This translates into Horde Shaman needing 289 Spell Hit Rating and Draenei needing 263 Spell Hit Rating.
Haste should be picked up when haste can be picked up. Don't got out of your way to get it because Lava Burst and Flame Shock have cool downs and we must operate within those cool downs.
After haste has all of your spells fiting in a rotation nicely critical strike would be the last attribute to start hunting for on gear, enchants, or gems.
The glyph for Flame Shock that increases duration and does not remove the dot effect on Lava Burst hit is of primary importance. After that the Lightning Bolt glyph that increases damage by 4% and the last spot could be the Flametongue glyph or the Lava Burst glyph. The Flametongue might be better for those of us who don't primarily raid and find ourselves in pugs where we have to spot heal or run around far too much and reapply Flame Shock. Lava Burst is probably best for single target holy cow kill the bonus before anyone dies raid focused wipechievments.
While I have repeated things seen in this thread and elsewhere, hopefully brining them all together helps others searching for some answers. I only have an Elemental Shaman and as such have not done much looking into the other trees. Of course maybe some else might not want to do their homework either and write something nice like this for others.
lifeincognito on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
For Heroics I'd suggest at least around 1500 dps
As Elemental, I could pull 1200-1400 on a single mob at 72 (in instances, where I actually bother dropping totems).
It's a very nice effort lifeincognito - however a more comprehensive and accurate guide to elem shamans is on elitistjerks - very detailed info on stats and rotations. http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20914-shaman_elemental/
It's a very nice effort lifeincognito - however a more comprehensive and accurate guide to elem shamans is on elitistjerks - very detailed info on stats and rotations. http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20914-shaman_elemental/
Erk. How come I didn't find that when I went there? Oh well. Thanks Louie.
I've been swapping between elemental and resto spec (and gear) every other raid or so depending on what we need (our number of healers available for raids fluctuates wildly as of late, for some reason), and I've been impressed at the scaling of elemental DPS with gear. Pretty small upgrades result in a very noticeable difference. I'm now hit capped at 2150 spell power, 500+ haste, 26% crit and doing 4500 DPS at Patchwerk - and there are plenty of upgrades left for my gear still. Today I helped guild alts in VH and did 5300 DPS on Moragg, although granted it was only ~30 seconds and with Bloodlust.
With the dumbing down of healing from the way it used to be in vanilla (I skipped raiding during most of TBC), I'm finding DPSing as much if not more challenging and fun. Dual spec will make me a very happy orc.
shamans in general scale hugely with gear
enhancement obviously because it about benefits from almost every single stat in the game, save for perhaps spirit.
autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Spirit and +def, and hell, +def is marginally useful when out questing and crap. Spirit not so much since you'll be bouncing from mob to mob so fast, casting spells all the time, keeping you in the 5SR.
I can see why haste would be favored over crit at raid level, but what about while leveling? I just started playing my 70 shaman again. He was enhance but I am kind of sick of melee and wanted to pewpew lightning. I have been taking crit over haste so far, it just seems the difference between a nice crit chain and regular damage makes crit more important than slightly faster spells.
I am only 71 though, so I don't have lava burst yet. My current chain is usually chain lightning, lightning bolt, flame shock, chain, lb then shock or whatever if still not dead, or more likely chain on the add I pulled on accident and then thunder and then general shenanigans.
I guess with guaranteed lava crits I will find crit rating less useful, but for now it just seems so much better.
Pellaeon on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Yeah, when you get Lava Burst crit becomes less valuable even while soloing because LvB takes over half of the mob's health away in a single blast. I usually go FS->LvB crit->CL crit->dead mob. If CL doesn't crit, I have to maybe cast one or two LBs.
Ah ok I figured it must be something like that. It was just looking at the rewards from a quest like last rites, two blue staves, one with 36 crit and 32 hit, one with 37 haste and spirit, and reading that haste is favored was kind of confusing.
I guess I just need a few more levels and then pewpew fire instead!
While leveling it doesn't really matter what you take. Everything's so easy and it's not like there's any reason to min-max. I'd say crit favors over haste while leveling if you really have to choose, though. Spirit is basically useless. I also wouldn't use staves if you can avoid it, since having extra armor from the shield helps.
When you say your rotation, you're not really using chain lightning against single targets are you? There's really no reason to do that, especially considering its mana cost.
When you say your rotation, you're not really using chain lightning against single targets are you? There's really no reason to do that, especially considering its mana cost.
It's faster and does a bit more damage than LB, and quite frankly, mana isn't a problem, ever. The lowest I've personally gone while leveling in Northrend is maybe 60% on 4+ mob pulls.
Well the staff is just the best weapon I have come across so far, I was starting off in whatever random gear I had collected from leveling to 70 or picked up for off spec in a kara raid so when I come across a decent shield and one hander I'll definitley be switching.
As for chain lightning, it is not the most mana efficient but it does do more damage and I don't really have mana efficiency problems. Plus I am still experimenting with it, trying to see just how close mobs can be before it jumps and I multi-pull, and how many mobs I can pull before I end up dead. At this point leveling speed is not an issue for me, I am very quest efficient so a slight loss in the mana efficiency dept doesn't really bother me. I'm just trying to have some fun blowing things up with fireballs from my eyes and bolts of lightning from my arse.
Posts
and it was pretty good
so good in fact I disenchanted all my enhancement gear, cause, fuck that noise
anyway, how does elemental prioritize caster stats? Crit seems like it wouldn't be that high, because you get so much from talents and mechanics. Is haste really good, then? it doesn't seem like that would be true either, because of the lava burst cooldown.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Listen, I've been both Elemental and Enhance at 80, and Enhance is about 100x more interesting. Lava Burst is seeing a big number every 6 seconds. You can get that better with a mage. And for comparison, I used to raid as a mage full time, so it's not like range casters just "aren't for me."
But to answer your question, the stat importance is basically Hit to cap > Spellpower > Haste to about 500 > Crit
Hit is the most important, obviously. Missing that one LavaBurst or Flame Shock in your rotation would suck. Hit Cap, Imp Faerie Fire/Misery adjusted in brackets. Horde: 368 (289) Alliance: 341 (263).
Spellpower for obvious reasons.
Haste is definitely useful, but you shouldn't gem for it or anything. You'll probably get enough from gear. Around 500 is considered a good spot to aim for.
Crit is the least useful due to Lava Burst always critting with Flame Shock on and you still get a good amount from talents and gear.
The key that makes it enhancement friendly is Maelstrom Weapon.
it does not work with mw
Edit - I guess I never caught on to the change from when the talent was in beta. Boo.
This would give enhancement a buit more on demand burst, and not be inbalanced
Also, they should combine Anticipation with something else. Do people actually spec for that? Even in pure PvP build I can't really find any room for it.
edit: Y'know, fuck that. They should just go crazy and move Astral Shift, Toughness and Nature's Guardian all way up in the trees so all specs could potentially grap them. The same way they have the "mandatory" tanking talents at the first tier of each DK tree.
Edit - Or shit, put it into Improved Windfury Totem so that we can actually double-dip for something.
Yeah, hey, Weapon Mastery. That's where it should go.
Oh man, I remember back when Anticipation was a defense talent, giving 2/4/6/8/10 defense. I had it for offtanking UBRS, Strat and Scholo back when those places were "raids" and 15/10mans.
They just forgot to remove some of the tanking talents when they decided shaman would be dps only.
10% armor and 5% dodge really helped Enh Shaman push those DPS numbers in TBC.
Except for the fact that they didn't, with the old Toughness sticking around forever. I believe there was a shield block % talent, as well.
Edit: Fuck I'm late for the party.
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Origin: ShogunGunshow
Earlier this week I got into an argument with a guildie (I certainly wasn't looking for it) over Water Shield. Someone on their shaman alt asked randomly in guildchat, "Anyone remember when Water Shield used to cost mana" and I mused with him about how it was silly, and all of a sudden this guy I knew for a long time in this guild gets on our asses about it and how it "never had a mana cost." He eventually ignored me, and some ten minutes later someone came up with the patch note from 2.3 that removed the mana cost and made water shield only last a minute.
He never apologized. ;_;
With that in mind I'm throwing out some numbers in case anyone else me comes along looking for some advice on what is doing for Shaman. Feel free to eat me alive.
Elemental:
For Heroics I'd suggest at least around 1500 dps and probably closer to at least 2000 dps for raids.
I think the most important attributes are spell hit, spell power, Intellect and haste. I believe that is the correct order of importance for raiding. For leveling/questing I would imagine that Stamina, Intellect, and spell power would be paramount. Or at least those were the stats I focused on while leveling.
With Unrelenting Storm converting Intellect into Mana over 5 there is little reason to be overly worried about Mana regeneration. In fact if with Clearcasting and Shamanistic Focus spells are going to be very cheap and Water Shield coupled with Thunderstorm (based off of your Intellect) should really be enough.
Spell critical rating is also curious in that 10 percent bonus critical can be achieved through talents alone, with Elemental Oath provides an additional 5 percent on critical. So as a rotation starts with Flame Shock followed by Lava Burst you would be sitting with a 15 percent higher critical strike chance from the base of level of what your Intellect provides you. That said, I am not sure there is a magic number because Lava Burst is already going to critical each cast and Flame Shocks dots do not currently benefit from critical. Ideally you would want enough to keep Elemental Oath up all the time and as the buff lasts 15 seconds you always get another Lava Burst off with a ticking Flame Shock to ensure the buff never fades.
Of course all of this is useless if you cannot hit that raid boss successfully. The base miss is 17% and Elemental Precision reduces this by 3 percent, leaving us to make up the 14% difference. I have read that based upon raid buffs an additional 3 percent can be ignored. I know I read why and what talents from other classes make this true but at the moment they escape me. Those Draenei among us have this reduced by another 1%, not so lucky for the Horde. This translates into Horde Shaman needing 289 Spell Hit Rating and Draenei needing 263 Spell Hit Rating.
Haste should be picked up when haste can be picked up. Don't got out of your way to get it because Lava Burst and Flame Shock have cool downs and we must operate within those cool downs.
After haste has all of your spells fiting in a rotation nicely critical strike would be the last attribute to start hunting for on gear, enchants, or gems.
The glyph for Flame Shock that increases duration and does not remove the dot effect on Lava Burst hit is of primary importance. After that the Lightning Bolt glyph that increases damage by 4% and the last spot could be the Flametongue glyph or the Lava Burst glyph. The Flametongue might be better for those of us who don't primarily raid and find ourselves in pugs where we have to spot heal or run around far too much and reapply Flame Shock. Lava Burst is probably best for single target holy cow kill the bonus before anyone dies raid focused wipechievments.
While I have repeated things seen in this thread and elsewhere, hopefully brining them all together helps others searching for some answers. I only have an Elemental Shaman and as such have not done much looking into the other trees. Of course maybe some else might not want to do their homework either and write something nice like this for others.
As Elemental, I could pull 1200-1400 on a single mob at 72 (in instances, where I actually bother dropping totems).
People who barely manage 1k dps at 80 baffle me.
that's about my autohit damage
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Erk. How come I didn't find that when I went there? Oh well. Thanks Louie.
With the dumbing down of healing from the way it used to be in vanilla (I skipped raiding during most of TBC), I'm finding DPSing as much if not more challenging and fun. Dual spec will make me a very happy orc.
enhancement obviously because it about benefits from almost every single stat in the game, save for perhaps spirit.
I am only 71 though, so I don't have lava burst yet. My current chain is usually chain lightning, lightning bolt, flame shock, chain, lb then shock or whatever if still not dead, or more likely chain on the add I pulled on accident and then thunder and then general shenanigans.
I guess with guaranteed lava crits I will find crit rating less useful, but for now it just seems so much better.
I guess I just need a few more levels and then pewpew fire instead!
When you say your rotation, you're not really using chain lightning against single targets are you? There's really no reason to do that, especially considering its mana cost.
It's faster and does a bit more damage than LB, and quite frankly, mana isn't a problem, ever. The lowest I've personally gone while leveling in Northrend is maybe 60% on 4+ mob pulls.
As for chain lightning, it is not the most mana efficient but it does do more damage and I don't really have mana efficiency problems. Plus I am still experimenting with it, trying to see just how close mobs can be before it jumps and I multi-pull, and how many mobs I can pull before I end up dead. At this point leveling speed is not an issue for me, I am very quest efficient so a slight loss in the mana efficiency dept doesn't really bother me. I'm just trying to have some fun blowing things up with fireballs from my eyes and bolts of lightning from my arse.