Options

Superman: Man of Tomorrow! (and his dog)

1262729313235

Posts

  • Options
    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Lex totally does have a pal. His name is Otis.

    otis.gif

    Otis
    32 yrs old
    5'9
    218lbs
    likes: Lex, Mrs.Tessmmocker, long walks on the beach, jazz
    dislikes: Camping, the South, banjo music, rednecks, obvious jokes about the movie Deliverance

    Caveman Paws on
  • Options
    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    IGN comics gave JMS's Superman: Earth One a scathing review. Keep in mind though they've given his regular Superman series run mostly positive reviews.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Options
    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    "I can't believe I'm writing this, but Superman: Earth One made me appreciate Smallville."

    Ow, burn.

    Wildcat on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Didn't Superman #703 come out this week? Did anyone read it? Is Grounded still terrible?

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Pretty sure it was last week.

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
  • Options
    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yeah, he accused Dick of being out of touch and then broke a redneck's nose, or something.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Options
    Futt BuckerFutt Bucker CTRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    He caused some collateral damage and then everyone got mad at him.

    Futt Bucker on
    My color is black to the blind
  • Options
    LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    He caused some collateral damage and then everyone got mad at him.

    Shit! Now he's got to take two laps around the country to deal with his double-guilt.

    Lux on
  • Options
    Futt BuckerFutt Bucker CTRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    What irritates me the most about Superman right now is how JMS is using Superman to address people on the internet who don't like his run. I'm sick of reading dialogue that sounds like "I know everyone is laughing at me. I know everyone thinks I am wasting my time. I know everyone is saying this doesn't make sense."

    Guess what: they are right!

    Futt Bucker on
    My color is black to the blind
  • Options
    DrakeonDrakeon Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I almost wish someone on here was buying the book so I could read more details on just how terrible it is.

    Drakeon on
    PSN: Drakieon XBL: Drakieon Steam: TheDrakeon
  • Options
    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Yeah, he accused Dick of being out of touch and then broke a redneck's nose, or something.

    I love the mental image of Superman breaking a rednecks nose. Sure he could punch him so hard he evaporates into a pink mist, but nah, he just broke his nose.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Do we have sales figures for issue 700-703? I want to see if there has been any significant decline in purchases.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SUPERMAN #700 67,571
    SUPERMAN #701 54,506
    SUPERMAN #702 50,023
    It didn't ship in September, which would have been the first month we'd have seen adjusted numbers (since retailers place orders three months in advance). So we'll have to wait until the October numbers come out, so see how well it's doing.

    Munch on
  • Options
    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Apparently Superman: Earth One is "hip, sexy and moody" according to Didio. Good to know.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Options
    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    You know, sometimes I get the feeling that Dan Didio doesn't really know what he's doing..

    Munch on
  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Apparently Superman: Earth One is "hip, sexy and moody" according to Didio. Good to know.

    Ironically, Didio sounds like a Stan Lee character here.

    Solar on
  • Options
    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Wildcat wrote: »
    "I can't believe I'm writing this, but Superman: Earth One made me appreciate Smallville."

    Ow, burn.

    On the flipside.
    This really is a Superman story. It just takes a little while to get there. It's maybe what Smallville ought to be
    .

    Automaticzen on
    http://www.usgamer.net/
    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
    I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
  • Options
    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I think I'll just stick to the Green Lantern books for my DC reading. Those are guaranteed to be at least "good".

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So Superman 704 already has a fill in? not a good sign. Or maybe its a very good sign.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    You know I was wondering why Texiken wasn't weighing in his opinion on JMS's Supes as usual, then I saw he got banned. Oops.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Options
    KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    What did he get banned for?

    KVW on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Pretty sure we aren't supposed to discuss bans or infractions. Best to drop it before someone gets in trouble.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    His ban should have expired though since it wasn't 8 points at one time

    Maybe that changed, I dunno

    CorporateLogo on
    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So anyway, regarding the fill-in creative team for this month, is there any official reason as to why they are already using fill-ins on this arc after only 3 issues?

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    So anyway, regarding the fill-in creative team for this month, is there any official reason as to why they are already using fill-ins on this arc after only 3 issues?

    JMS had super-bronchitis and it set him back a month and a half. That's why 703 was late, and I think the dates for 704 and 705 changed in response.

    I'm seriously considering getting earth one. TexiKen isn't even around to stop me, and Amazon has it at nearly half off (plus I need to order some stuff from them in the next couple days).


    Fuuucccckkk.

    On the other hand, I read JMS's Wonder Woman preview at the source earlier today, and the dialog was still just stilted and terrible. I think the majesty is kind of dead, because when I read his stuff I usually just think about him and not so much the characters anymore.

    HadjiQuest on
  • Options
    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Might as well just take $10 and light it on fire, Hadji.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • Options
    MastaPMastaP Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    So anyway, regarding the fill-in creative team for this month, is there any official reason as to why they are already using fill-ins on this arc after only 3 issues?

    JMS had super-bronchitis and it set him back a month and a half. That's why 703 was late, and I think the dates for 704 and 705 changed in response.

    I'm seriously considering getting earth one. TexiKen isn't even around to stop me, and Amazon has it at nearly half off (plus I need to order some stuff from them in the next couple days).


    Fuuucccckkk.

    On the other hand, I read JMS's Wonder Woman preview at the source earlier today, and the dialog was still just stilted and terrible. I think the majesty is kind of dead, because when I read his stuff I usually just think about him and not so much the characters anymore.

    There are a few extended previews online, read them and then make a choice based on that.

    Though, this was probably the best day 1 sales for a hardcover Graphic Novel we've had in years. Maybe ever. It was comparable to the fist Buffy Season 8 trade in softcover.

    MastaP on
  • Options
    Futt BuckerFutt Bucker CTRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    MastaP wrote: »
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    So anyway, regarding the fill-in creative team for this month, is there any official reason as to why they are already using fill-ins on this arc after only 3 issues?

    JMS had super-bronchitis and it set him back a month and a half. That's why 703 was late, and I think the dates for 704 and 705 changed in response.

    I'm seriously considering getting earth one. TexiKen isn't even around to stop me, and Amazon has it at nearly half off (plus I need to order some stuff from them in the next couple days).


    Fuuucccckkk.

    On the other hand, I read JMS's Wonder Woman preview at the source earlier today, and the dialog was still just stilted and terrible. I think the majesty is kind of dead, because when I read his stuff I usually just think about him and not so much the characters anymore.

    There are a few extended previews online, read them and then make a choice based on that.

    Though, this was probably the best day 1 sales for a hardcover Graphic Novel we've had in years. Maybe ever. It was comparable to the fist Buffy Season 8 trade in softcover.

    My LCS sold out and when he called to order more they said they wouldn't have anymore available til December. You'd think it would have had a bigger print run considering how much they promoted the book.

    Futt Bucker on
    My color is black to the blind
  • Options
    MastaPMastaP Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    MastaP wrote: »
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    So anyway, regarding the fill-in creative team for this month, is there any official reason as to why they are already using fill-ins on this arc after only 3 issues?

    JMS had super-bronchitis and it set him back a month and a half. That's why 703 was late, and I think the dates for 704 and 705 changed in response.

    I'm seriously considering getting earth one. TexiKen isn't even around to stop me, and Amazon has it at nearly half off (plus I need to order some stuff from them in the next couple days).


    Fuuucccckkk.

    On the other hand, I read JMS's Wonder Woman preview at the source earlier today, and the dialog was still just stilted and terrible. I think the majesty is kind of dead, because when I read his stuff I usually just think about him and not so much the characters anymore.

    There are a few extended previews online, read them and then make a choice based on that.

    Though, this was probably the best day 1 sales for a hardcover Graphic Novel we've had in years. Maybe ever. It was comparable to the fist Buffy Season 8 trade in softcover.

    My LCS sold out and when he called to order more they said they wouldn't have anymore available til December. You'd think it would have had a bigger print run considering how much they promoted the book.

    Maybe they didn't expect this much and instead printed say, as many as they did for the Blackest Night hardcovers or something.

    Of course this IS diamond comics we're talking about, so it could just be the warehouse in your area and not the print run over all.

    MastaP on
  • Options
    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Got to read Earth One in the store yesterday, they had a few opened copies for people to read since the UPS delivery came late and they were behind making the pull lists. You can actually burn through it rather fast, for being about 20 pages longer than those DC premier hardcovers like JLA/JSA or the Joker HC or WW: Hiketia, you can probably get through Earth One in the same time.

    Superman Earth One seems to be this attempt by JMS to one-up all other types of Superman stories or general ideas in comics, as if to say "I can do it better." Hefty spoilers below.

    Morrison writes this epic Superman story with a great ending? JMS'll try and one-up that by having this new outer space threat really make Superman fight for Earth and do everything to protect them because it's bigger than fighting a sun-eater. I mean, they killed tons and tons of planets (and people) to get to Superman! And he doesn't really care that all these people died either, so it makes him as apathetic as modern teenage person!

    Claremont using mutants as a metaphor for minorities in the 80's (until the message was beaten to death in the 90's)? JMS tries to up that and really seems to hammer home the idea that young Clark is this symbol for gays/lesbians struggling with coming out. It doesn't quite get to balance the emotional teen and super powered hero angle, and sometimes falls into that "no one gets me I'm going to play this music really loud you take out the trash, man, you take out the trash!"

    Jimmy Olsen being a bit energetic/stalkerish with Lois and Clark in Birthright and trying to simply be recognized by those he considers his betters? Here he goes by Jim and is a paparazzi who doesn't care what you think because it's all about the story and takes Clark under his wing in Metropolis. He's such a bad ass the main bad guy (named Tyrell) thinks he's the Kryptonian they were looking for on Earth. Jimmy can be cool and confident without being either too docile or exxxtreeme, as Nick Spencer is doing with the Olsen backups in Action Comics.

    Busiek makes Superman super-smart again, post Infinite Crisis? Earth One Clark has that intelligence but with it a bit of arrogance and dismissive attitude to him that comes across almost like a Lisa Simpson know it all.

    And his ship talks, and is all about wanting vengeance for Krypton. It's like in Red Dawn, you have the dad in the internment camp about to be killed, and he yells out to the kids "Avenge Me!", this is something that Clark doesn't address in this book but will probably be a carrying plot point in the future, to choose to be an avenger of his people or a champion for humanity.

    On top of this, Clark's motivation for working at the Planet isn't because he has the ability to see the world and give intimate first hand knowledge, or was inspired by a journalist traveling the world like in Action Comics #800. It was because Jim and Lois saved him in a fight with robots, and they/we are the true heroes (cliched JMS story point #1, out in full force to see, while he times it out on his iPod to some epic soundtrack score). Really, someone should compare the "You are ALL Super" line with the Flash WWII issue of Brave & the Bold, because it seems to be the exact same vibe. And Perry White seems to be nothing more than an older Iron Man from when Peter was working under Tony in the Avengers. Lois is written as a pale imitation of her Joe Kelly persona. Nothing about her makes you think Clark would fall for her like he did in Man of Steel or Birthright. Maybe that's the twist in Earth One, Clark picks Lana or maybe even Cat Grant or Lori Lemaris.

    And this is my biggest complaint about the story, and one of the biggest problems Hollywood in general seems to make, like others who really never read Superman. JMS makes Superman the person and Clark the disguise, and really hits the piano keys to try and tug at our heartstrings that we should feel bad for him because he can't be himself see, see the point JMS is trying to make?. This is just not the case, no matter what David Caradine said at the end of Kill Bill 2 that made people go "oh wow, that's totally deep." The key understanding of Superman is that he never knew about his origin until early teens, and therefore was able to be raised in a way that allowed him to be firmly grounded in humanity, realizing that these gifts he has now been blessed with can do so much to help the world. He wouldn't be Superman with the Kents, plain and simple. In Earth One it's more the Kents making him be Superman than Clark realizing "I was raised by a good family, with strong morals and ethics, I want to use these powers to help others," and then encourage Clark on his choice.

    On top of that, there's this weird bit of the Kent's pretty much giving in that Clark will now gravitate to his Kryptonian heritage because it's who he really is. Remember in Birthright Jonathan beating up the ship that came back to life, because he was willing to fight anything to make sure his son stays human and with him and was jealous of something that could take that away? That's not only touching and heartbreaking, but it works in grounding Clark a few pages later. Here, Martha works an angle of coddling because she knows about his "secret" (again it seems very heavy on the closet homosexual references) yet also never comes across as a strong willed woman from Kansas. JMS relies too much on generic ideas of what the south/midwest is. and has these usual mom lines that don't offer anything new or make Martha stand out. There's also a bit where Clark is trying to find a job, and it seems to do nothing more than say "I am going to be Superman, these jobs are beneath me, bah." Well, that kind of misses the point of Clark Kent and further emphasizes the "mask" portion of the story that again, doesn't work.

    Finally, we get the idea that Superman can't be trusted because he was in on the whole invasion thing by Tyrell as a set up to take over our world. It can't work that way, because if the world's military forces are literally slapped around like they have sticks, what is the point of Superman doing all that fighting for the people when he could just take over the world himself and save the time and trouble? It seemed JMS was so in love with that plot point he carried it over to the regular Superman title.

    The art isn't that great either, or something that you go "yeah, that took a year to draw." Compared to Davis' S/B Kryptonite story which had rather strong art that made up for the weak ending, everyone in Earth One seems to have a bigger head than their body, and there's a few pages where it looks heavy on the photo referencing (like Larocca's current style) and the art has no depth to it. Gary Frank probably used up every Christopher Reeve Superman image on Google when he drew Action and Secret Origin but it never stood out as being referenced.

    Having wrote all that, this isn't as terrible as his Grounded story. It's just not inspiring or very original. I would say this is better than For Tomorrow. 4/10 would be the score it gets. I mean, if you could buy the book for under 10 bucks, and already bought Doomwar and have the Absolute All-Star Superman omnibus on pre-order, that would be a fair price to pay for it. My biggest concern with this story is that while this is to be a new take on Superman, how many times has the new take on a character always bled back into the real version? If this does well that means for the next Superman story (or origin, it has been 4 months since the last one was told) we will get this version of Superman in our regular books. See, Waid accomplished some of the more pronounced points of the Smallville TV show incorporating them into Superman's then cannon origin, but that is because he is a better writer and has a much greater understanding of Superman than JMS. Other writers trying to do the same can mess it up even more, giving the Superman books an even greater sense of malaise. And comparing this to say, Ultimate X-Men or Spider-Man, it's no contest that the Ultimate versions are better in updating the characters. And apologies for comparing a lot of this to Birthright, but that is what this is trying to replace, and you can't really not compare it.

    TL;DR: JMS doesn't get Superman even in "Ultimate" form, and on top of that includes a rather generic, by the books movie script adaptation of Superman to try and make it stick for current generations. I didn't see the love that other writers have for the character, but rather an attempt to offer a little bit to entice everyone to try the book, but in doing so it forgets who Superman is, which is a character that can still resonate on his three simple principles, and it is not the fault of the character that some people today are too ignorant or close minded to see that. It's a mediocre sum of all its parts, stealing a bit from Birthright, Our Worlds at War, some of his ASM work, etc.


    Now for something completely unexpected, Superman #704 wasn't that bad skimming through it. It completely mischaracterizes Lois, and makes her more of a girly girl than she has been shown to have been (especially for being an Army brat and her sister being the one who tried to be perfect for Daddy), but the actual weight and premise of the story isn't bad at all. It would have worked much better if it was just some woman who wonders about Superman's significant other in comparing her own life at a certain point in time. Still should have been the Busiek Krypto issue for a fill-in.

    TexiKen on
  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Hey Tex.

    It sucks that Superman: Earth One is so bad, I was really looking forward to it being an Ultimate DC type thing, something that I could get into easily and was available in trade form. As far as Superman goes I'll just have to stick with All-Star Superman, because there isn't anything coming out now that I can enjoy.

    Solar on
  • Options
    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Solar wrote: »
    Hey Tex.

    It sucks that Superman: Earth One is so bad, I was really looking forward to it being an Ultimate DC type thing, something that I could get into easily and was available in trade form. As far as Superman goes I'll just have to stick with All-Star Superman, because there isn't anything coming out now that I can enjoy.

    Honestly, the Geoff Johns Superman stuff is pretty fantastic. Secret Origins has a great first few issues, although it falls pretty flat in the later half. However, Up, Up & Away, Last Son, Superman & The Legion of Superheroes, Brainiac, and the first two New Krypton volumes are all brilliant Superman stories.

    As for the rest of the New Krypton stuff, I wouldn't recommend most of it to a new DC reader, even though it's how I got back into DC after not reading since childhood. The "Last Stand of New Krypton" crossover that brought it to a climax was really good, but the "War of the Supermen" arc that ended it all and reset the status quo sucked hard. "World of New Krypton" was ultimately forgettable and most of it didn't establish anything lasting or important to the two crossovers that ended the event.

    Edit: I should note that Up, Up, and Away was a reboot for Supes, and so it's a very clean break and easy entering point. From there, Johns's other stories build off of it, although Superman & The Legion stands on its own, and ties in more to his other Legion works, but it's also a clean entry point for the Legion. Honestly, you should check the run out if you get a chance.

    HadjiQuest on
  • Options
    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    the thing is, this 120 page format is actually really good. For instance, just have Dave Finch do his Dark Knight story as a premier HC and release it in a year or 5 when it's ready. The structure is very malleable and it does read like you aren't getting a break every 20 pages or so like a regular comic.

    And even in the case of Marvel, I would love to see New Avengers be axed, only for it to be a direct to HC/SC format that we see every 8 months or so, it would really work out well.

    TexiKen on
  • Options
    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So has anyone here read that Luthor book that DC released, last week I think? I was thinking of picking it up, but I wanted to hear if anyone had any thoughts on it.

    Maratastik on
  • Options
    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's really good, it was actually a 4 issue mini series from 2004-5 by Azzarello and Bermejo.

    The new hardcover apparently has some more pages that weren't used in the story, and for as bad as Azarello's Superman For Tomorrow was, he writes a strong Luthor. His janitor's son isn't doing well in school, he tells him if he gets his grades up the kid can go with Luthor to the professional basketball game as his guest in the suite box.

    It does a good bit of showing that we know Luthor's a jerk, but he's very strong in convincing the average person that he's trustworthy. And to an extent he actually is, it's just his contempt for Superman always stands in the way.

    TexiKen on
  • Options
    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Sweet, I guess I'll be picking it up then.

    Maratastik on
  • Options
    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Oh man, I didn't know the Lex Luthor mini had been reprinted. I'm all over that shit.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Options
    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited October 2010
    Lex from the Lex Luthor: Man of Steel is the best Lex Luthor

    he wants to help the human race but believes the existence of Superman will just stunt their will to be any better, since they can never be him

    plus I love that Luthor always sees Superman with his eyes glowing red

    Garlic Bread on
  • Options
    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Joker was upsetting, everything I hear about For Tomorrow is bad news, and Bermejo had the poor luck to draw the single worst strip, Superman, in Wednesday Comics. So I've been pretty hesitant about Luthor, but maybe I should check it out.

    HadjiQuest on
  • Options
    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's worth it.

    Azzarello really isn't a guy who can write superheroes well, but Luthor isn't that kind of villain (or used to be when the series came out). Orr is in it, the super secret operative from For Tomorrow, which is kind of a bummer, but he's not that important to the mini.

    For instance, getting the Luthor mini over Superman Earth One, that would be a better choice.

    TexiKen on
Sign In or Register to comment.