And I thought of a better, not-6am-in-the-morning way of putting it.
I totally agree that I shouldn't stand much of a chance against a pyro once they reach me, and that was never my complaint.
But shouldn't I have a good chance, playing well, to kill them at range? This is my point, and what Asiina seems to agree with. I can do my utmost to kill a pyro at considerable range and still stand a decent chance of them getting to me before I can.
This seems to completely ignore the fact that you have a team who should be defending the rear (i.e: where you should be) with sentries, stickies, spychecks, etc. The pyro shouldn't be able to close in from a considerable range without getting blown to smithereens by your team, never mind possibly getting sniped along the way.
But this is dumb. You're effectively now saying that snipers should have to rely on a team being there to slow the pyro down because they're too hard to kill solo, at long range, with a sniper.
First you take it out context where it's inconvenient, now you add context where it's convenient.
You mean...relying on a team to shield your weaknesses?
This wouldn't be Team Fortress or anything
Whoa whoa whoa. That is absolutely not the point, and I'm sure you know it.
And even if it is, what part of "pyros can reliably kill snipers even when they start at range and that is a sniper weakness that your team has to cover" sounds right to you?
What is this Flippy? I know you're smarter than this
The vast majority of time, you'll have your team between you and a pyro. If the pyro makes a dead sprint for you running through countless other guys, he's dead. He's not going to make that. Pyros will be more concerned with what's closest.
Ok, hypothetical situation, you're way ahead of your team or your team is out of the equation somehow. Again, I'm going to use Dustbowl 3-2 as an example.
You're behind the cap point, the pyro comes around the corner and is coming for you. That should be an easy kill. You can get two or three headshots in in that time, or two headshots and some mg or anything. A sub par sniper maybe not but whatever.
However, same situation, except the pyro is on the cap point. Should a sniper be able to stand toe to toe to a pyro who is still outside of flame range, but will be if he takes just a few steps? A very good sniper may be able to get two lucky headshots, but in most cases no, the pyro is going to win that one. It's not anything wrong with the pyro...put a different class in that situation and it will be a vastly different outcome. It's just the downside the sniper has as being a long range class.
Yeah, nothing I like more than waiting at the enemys gate with a medic on me, only to realize that Kritz is not going to save me from the 3 ubered pyros coming at me.
The situation that came to mind was defending stage 1, cap 1 of Goldrush. A well situated soldier/medic combo with Kritz, far enough away from the initial uber push (or at least behind the higher priority target sentry's) could potentially wreck havoc on everyone but the 2/4/6 players ubered.
Same situation but with an uber instead yields what? It's unlikely you're going to successfully defend cap 1 on stage 1, so I'd think killing as many people to slow the whole process down would be the better option.
The rub, as always, is the skill of the people using the kritz as well as the skill of the attacking team to put that engine of chaos down.
I understand your point, but the theory doesn't work out in practice. Trouble is it's all anecdotal. The point is that, most of the time, the sniper doesn't have such an advantage as he theoretically should.
But I think I'll step out of this discussion here. Several players I have a lot of respect for agree with me, so I guess it's split down the middle.
I understand your point, but the theory doesn't work out in practice. Trouble is it's all anecdotal. The point is that, most of the time, the sniper doesn't have such an advantage as he theoretically should.
But I think I'll step out of this discussion here. Several players I have a lot of respect for agree with me, so I guess it's split down the middle.
The problem is you're pitting the best long range class against the best short range class and worrying about how the long range class doesn't have any advantage when not in his element
And I'm glad to see all these other players are out debating the points, discussion dies with you there bucko
Roar. Does anyone want to design a map? I can't say for sure that I'll put it into production, but I can at least make an orange map for it.
Or a new style of gameplay? Like, instead of CP/PL/CTF, etc. I'll know if it's possible or not, but you can let your imagination run freeeeee!
I'm basically out of new ideas...Unless an invunerable SG attached to the payload that the defense can push back and sapp (so it stops working) sounds good..? Does this sound good?
I had the idea ( or someone else did, I'm not so sure ) to have dual hunted CTF. The hunted would be the only player allowed to pick up and capture the intel. This class could be designated before the game starts to change up pace.
Roar. Does anyone want to design a map? I can't say for sure that I'll put it into production, but I can at least make an orange map for it.
Or a new style of gameplay? Like, instead of CP/PL/CTF, etc. I'll know if it's possible or not, but you can let your imagination run freeeeee!
I'm basically out of new ideas...Unless an invunerable SG attached to the payload that the defense can push back and sapp (so it stops working) sounds good..? Does this sound good?
Question
Could you make vehicles.
I mean in the loosest sense. Things like a payload, but you can build an SG on them and actually move them in the direction you choose
I mean in the loosest sense. Things like a payload, but you can build an SG on them and actually move them in the direction you choose
Damn that would be somewhat sweet
Oh.. oh!
Dual Payload.
2 sets of tracks, first team to end, etc, etc.
Vehicles...No? Not that I'm aware of. All things would move on a track...Though I suppose I could make it so someone can jump inside a compartment in the middle of it and walk around with the platform attached to their head. It would effectively drop the player out of doing anything until they die/suicide, though.
Dual Payload! I've thought of it before. It has the problem with CP and CTF in that one team can go all defense and the game gets nowhere...I can still make an example map if you guys want me to..?
I'll try to make it pretty enough for HoNC? Would anyone waaant to play a DUAL PAYLOAD map?
EDIT: I could make a frogger map pretty easily. It might not look the prettiest, but whatever. Also, scouts would have a distinct advantage over...everyone. And the heavy would be like hard mode. I must say, though, that I would absolutely suck at testing that map.
EDIT2: ..Wait, isn't freight basically a frogger map =P?
I could make a frogger map pretty easily. It might not look the prettiest, but whatever. Also, scouts would have a distinct advantage over...everyone. And the heavy would be like hard mode. I must say, though, that I would absolutely suck at testing that map.
..Wait, isn't freight basically a frogger map =P?
Could possibly limit some classes to keep it slightly fairer and thus more fun.
Haven't honced up long enough to try Freight yet. Sounds like I need to.
I understand your point, but the theory doesn't work out in practice. Trouble is it's all anecdotal. The point is that, most of the time, the sniper doesn't have such an advantage as he theoretically should.
But I think I'll step out of this discussion here. Several players I have a lot of respect for agree with me, so I guess it's split down the middle.
The problem is you're pitting the best long range class against the best short range class and worrying about how the long range class doesn't have any advantage when not in his element
And I'm glad to see all these other players are out debating the points, discussion dies with you there bucko
Whaaat. How many times do I have to consistently spell it out that I have no problem with a pyro killing me at short range. Are you just ignoring me when I say that? I've said it at least four times. Asiina understood perfectly what I was saying as did Tyrannus. You're hearing what you want to hear because I have said this So Many Times by now.
Also, no. I'm pitting the best long range class against the best short range class and worrying about how the long range class doesn't have a significant advantage about 30% of the time when in his element.
You guys seem so quick to agree with the fact that the pyro should rape the sniper at close range. And that's absolutely the right attitude. So why does the proposition that there's something wrong when the opposite isn't true cause so much friction? Is it that snipers just rile people up more than pyros or something?
Snipers are probably the most adept class at pissing me off. But that's because I always hate getting killed from long distance in whatever game I play that has that danger.
Usually all it takes is one revenge kill on them and I calm down.
You guys seem so quick to agree with the fact that the pyro should rape the sniper at close range. And that's absolutely the right attitude. So why does the proposition that there's something wrong when the opposite isn't true cause so much friction? Is it that snipers just rile people up more than pyros or something?
So your point is that Snipers do not have an advantage over Pyros at long range? How is that? Pyros aren't magically fast like a scout. If you can snipe an engineer or even a medic you can snipe a Pyro. They don't have some special ability that protects them from headshots. I guess if you're a lousy shot it would be bad, but how in the world does a good Sniper NOT have an advantage over a pyro at long range? Flare gun/Shotgun vs Sniper Rifle... Hmmm...
I'm not trying to be antagonist here, by the way. I'm genuinely curious where you're seeing this perceived imbalance and how it can be fixed. Because outside of shitty snipers (and no class should be balanced around the bad players) I don't see any reason why a zoomed in sniper at long range won't anally violate a pyro.
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What is this Flippy? I know you're smarter than this
The vast majority of time, you'll have your team between you and a pyro. If the pyro makes a dead sprint for you running through countless other guys, he's dead. He's not going to make that. Pyros will be more concerned with what's closest.
Ok, hypothetical situation, you're way ahead of your team or your team is out of the equation somehow. Again, I'm going to use Dustbowl 3-2 as an example.
You're behind the cap point, the pyro comes around the corner and is coming for you. That should be an easy kill. You can get two or three headshots in in that time, or two headshots and some mg or anything. A sub par sniper maybe not but whatever.
However, same situation, except the pyro is on the cap point. Should a sniper be able to stand toe to toe to a pyro who is still outside of flame range, but will be if he takes just a few steps? A very good sniper may be able to get two lucky headshots, but in most cases no, the pyro is going to win that one. It's not anything wrong with the pyro...put a different class in that situation and it will be a vastly different outcome. It's just the downside the sniper has as being a long range class.
The situation that came to mind was defending stage 1, cap 1 of Goldrush. A well situated soldier/medic combo with Kritz, far enough away from the initial uber push (or at least behind the higher priority target sentry's) could potentially wreck havoc on everyone but the 2/4/6 players ubered.
Same situation but with an uber instead yields what? It's unlikely you're going to successfully defend cap 1 on stage 1, so I'd think killing as many people to slow the whole process down would be the better option.
The rub, as always, is the skill of the people using the kritz as well as the skill of the attacking team to put that engine of chaos down.
[IMG]http://www.alabasterslim.com/0/number 9.png[/IMG]
But I think I'll step out of this discussion here. Several players I have a lot of respect for agree with me, so I guess it's split down the middle.
I never asked for this!
Ka-Chung!
Ka-Chung!
train is imba
The problem is you're pitting the best long range class against the best short range class and worrying about how the long range class doesn't have any advantage when not in his element
And I'm glad to see all these other players are out debating the points, discussion dies with you there bucko
Fuck yeah.
edit: speak
that or he can't speak loud because he might wake his angry mother
Or a new style of gameplay? Like, instead of CP/PL/CTF, etc. I'll know if it's possible or not, but you can let your imagination run freeeeee!
I'm basically out of new ideas...Unless an invunerable SG attached to the payload that the defense can push back and sapp (so it stops working) sounds good..? Does this sound good?
He just talks all slow and slurry is all.
I t ' s l i k e h e t a l k s a n d t h i n k s a b o u t i t a t t h e s a m e t i m e .
As I say, only an idea.
ew, he's all...exposed and expecting
Question
Could you make vehicles.
I mean in the loosest sense. Things like a payload, but you can build an SG on them and actually move them in the direction you choose
Damn that would be somewhat sweet
Take a look into forever.. gentlemen.
Oh.. oh!
Dual Payload.
2 sets of tracks, first team to end, etc, etc.
Also, I demand a Frogger map with like 20 trains on 5 second intervals.
Vehicles...No? Not that I'm aware of. All things would move on a track...Though I suppose I could make it so someone can jump inside a compartment in the middle of it and walk around with the platform attached to their head. It would effectively drop the player out of doing anything until they die/suicide, though.
Dual Payload! I've thought of it before. It has the problem with CP and CTF in that one team can go all defense and the game gets nowhere...I can still make an example map if you guys want me to..?
I'll try to make it pretty enough for HoNC? Would anyone waaant to play a DUAL PAYLOAD map?
EDIT: I could make a frogger map pretty easily. It might not look the prettiest, but whatever. Also, scouts would have a distinct advantage over...everyone. And the heavy would be like hard mode. I must say, though, that I would absolutely suck at testing that map.
EDIT2: ..Wait, isn't freight basically a frogger map =P?
awsome, i like this idea!
Could possibly limit some classes to keep it slightly fairer and thus more fun.
Haven't honced up long enough to try Freight yet. Sounds like I need to.
Whaaat. How many times do I have to consistently spell it out that I have no problem with a pyro killing me at short range. Are you just ignoring me when I say that? I've said it at least four times. Asiina understood perfectly what I was saying as did Tyrannus. You're hearing what you want to hear because I have said this So Many Times by now.
Also, no. I'm pitting the best long range class against the best short range class and worrying about how the long range class doesn't have a significant advantage about 30% of the time when in his element.
You guys seem so quick to agree with the fact that the pyro should rape the sniper at close range. And that's absolutely the right attitude. So why does the proposition that there's something wrong when the opposite isn't true cause so much friction? Is it that snipers just rile people up more than pyros or something?
I think you should copy paste this every 10 pages.
Usually all it takes is one revenge kill on them and I calm down.
why am i being called out for my trolling by a respectable troll
It WAS batted at some point, and I prefer to think of the good ol' days.
So your point is that Snipers do not have an advantage over Pyros at long range? How is that? Pyros aren't magically fast like a scout. If you can snipe an engineer or even a medic you can snipe a Pyro. They don't have some special ability that protects them from headshots. I guess if you're a lousy shot it would be bad, but how in the world does a good Sniper NOT have an advantage over a pyro at long range? Flare gun/Shotgun vs Sniper Rifle... Hmmm...
I'm not trying to be antagonist here, by the way. I'm genuinely curious where you're seeing this perceived imbalance and how it can be fixed. Because outside of shitty snipers (and no class should be balanced around the bad players) I don't see any reason why a zoomed in sniper at long range won't anally violate a pyro.
Oh great and I got totp, too.
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