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Grad School
KetBra
Dressed RidiculouslyRegistered User regular
Dressed RidiculouslyRegistered User regular
Okay, so I'm going into the third year of my Engineering Physics degree this fall, and I'm starting to think about Grad School. The only thing is, no one in my family's ever gone to grad school, so I don't know much of how the application process works.
So, I've just got a few questions on the subject. When's a good time to start applying? Should I apply to as many schools as possible? What's generally involved in applying? What schools should I apply to? I know I also need a letter of recommendation from a prof, generally. When should I start talking to profs about that?
Thanks for any advice.
So, I've just got a few questions on the subject. When's a good time to start applying? Should I apply to as many schools as possible? What's generally involved in applying? What schools should I apply to? I know I also need a letter of recommendation from a prof, generally. When should I start talking to profs about that?
Thanks for any advice.
KetBra on
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Since you are an Engineering Physics major, I am guessing you are applying for either engineering or physics (if there is such thing as a graduate engineering physics degree then I am unaware). Typically what is involved in an application is your transcript, a statement of purpose, GRE scores, teacher recommendations, and a list of research experience (extracurriculars and such are probably on there, but they don't matter). You will probably need 3 teacher recommendations, not just one. What schools you apply to depends on what you are interested in.
If you haven't started doing research already then you should start now.
If you are planning on going to grad school for physics then I have some more information (I'm an undergrad physics major but I've done a lot of research on this). Firstly, in order to be competitive with other physics majors you'll have to take a good number of physics classes. I don't know what the curriculum of your program is. If you're going to be graduating with 2 semesters of quantum mechanics, 2 semesters of E&M beyond intro level, 2 semester of classical mechanics beyond intro level, thermodynamics, and statistical mechanics, then you're probably good (it won't hurt to take more though). You will also have to take the physics GRE, which (in addition to the above), will test you on a handful of other subjects (such as atomic physics and optics). I've read that grad schools don't really care what major you were, as long as you've taken the classes. The reason that physics grad schools are filled with physics majors, though, is because typically they are the only ones that have taken all the classes that they want. General GRE scores barely matter, but the physics GRE score does matter. You can take the general GRE whenever is convienient to you, the only part that would probably make any difference for you is quantitative, and as long as you have a decent score on that you'll be fine. You already know everything you need to know to take the general GRE; it's just a slightly beefed up SAT with a much better curve.
You might want to plan on taking the GRE at least twice, or at least take it early enough your first time that you have enough time to take it again, if you think you might need to. The first time I took it was the first time I ever did that computer based testing thing, and not being able to skip questions really threw me off. The second time I took it, I did much, much better (like, 200 points better). Also, I disagree that quantitative is what matters for you; for a highly mathematical field, you are expected to score 800 on quant, so it's actually your verbal and analytical scores (along with subject test scores) that differentiate you from other applicants.
That's really the name of the game: differentiating from other applicants. So, while transcripts and test scores are important, it's the statement of purpose, letters of rec., and research experience that will be the difference between being wait-listed, and being offered a full assistantship or even fellowship. In your field, I'd guess that research experience is the most significant variable.
As far as when you should start talking to profs, if there are any you get along with particularly well, or that you've taken multiple courses from, you might want to mention that you're starting to look at grad schools, and would they be willing to write you a letter when it comes time to do so. You might also mention what you're interested in specializing in, and if they know of any programs that are particularly good for that.
One more piece of advice: once you have an idea of what programs you want to apply to, try to find out how many of their grad students need financial aid. In general, unless you're a marginal candidate or you're applying to a tiny program, you should expect an assistantship that includes at the very least, a waiver for tuition and fees, plus the majority of your cost of living. It's not uncommon for grad students to have to take out small loans to help pay for an apartment, food, or books (graduate level texts are expensive), but you should definitely avoid taking out loans for tuition and fees. If you're having a hard time finding out this information, try contacting departmental secretaries. For large departments, there's often a secretary dedicated to the graduate program, and he or she should be able to give you that information pretty quickly.
Are you a Canadian or American citizen? International students have far more hoops to jump through in terms of visa applications and such. Also, look into applying for the Hertz Foundation fellowship; I think it's open to anyone, unlike most big fellowships, but I could be wrong. Also look into Canadian study abroad fellowships. Basically, at most grad schools you have to TA or RA until a professor picks you up. If you have a fellowship you don't have to TA or RA and you earn a lot more.
Good time to start applying? Right now. Most schools should have their applications online by August or so, if they aren't up already. Talk to profs now. Expect a long time to get recommendation letters sent in, since profs are very busy people. Also, it helps to write your statement of purpose and have a current resume to give them so they don't just write "CorpeRT got an A in Quantum Mechanics." Recs that just mention your grade and nothing about you are horrible from an admissions perspective.
As far as what schools to apply to, keep in mind the following:
-If you want to be a professor, pedigree matters. A LOT. A good PhD from MIT will get you more tenure-track interviews than a great PhD from a very good school like University of Washington or UT-Austin. It sucks, but academia is full of elitist jerks. So if that's your definite goal, apply to as many reputable schools as possible. However, keep in mind that I mean pedigree as far as your specific institution is concerned. An optical physics degree from Rochester, which is one of the best optical physics research schools in the world, is worth more than an optical physics degree from UT-Austin, even though UT-Austin is a much more famous research school overall. Basically, all things being equal the name of the school is important in academic circles. However, if you work for a very famous guy at a less famous school, that usually evens the playing field. Of course, often times these famous guys are at famous schools, but not always.
-Ask profs at your school about good grad schools to go to for a specific research area. Go into your profs' office and ask them what schools do lots of good research in this area. They'll usually mention specific names that you can look up and such. Like I mentioned above, school research pedigree matters. However, working for a famous professor also matters. Even then, if the professor is TOO famous it might not be a good idea to work for him, but let's wait until you get into grad school before going into that stuff.
-Make sure they pay you for grad school. Stanford is notorious for accepting lots of people but giving funding to only a few. Don't pay for grad school; you're doing a job by researching, you aren't just taking classes or whatever for 6 years.
-If you want to do industry and government lab research after your PhD, try and be in a city you'll like with lots of job opportunities or on-campus interviews. The bigger the city or the bigger the university (not necessarily both) the better. I'm at a small school in a giant city, so I'm okay. Penn State is a giant school in a tiny city, but it's a giant school so there are lots of job interviewers on campus.
EDIT: I took out the last part since in hindsight I'm not sure if it's true.
Look at the department websites and see what the professors there are researching. If you get into multiple schools, this will most likely be the biggest deciding factor for you (it was for me!).
I'll also echo the advice about money. Try to get a TA stipend if you can.
Considering only about 25% of students going to physics grad school score an 800 on quantitative, it would be almost silly for a department to expect an 800 outside of top schools. For engineering, it's only 10-20% (depending on the specific field). Also, you can find plenty of examples of people getting into top schools who got like a 330 on verbal. Grad schools do not care about things that don't predict success in research. It's just plain silly to do so.
I fucked up my Comp Sci subject test, so don't forget about how hard they are. Bottom 25%
But then I was top 20% in the quantitive, and top 10% in the verbal on the general.
Basically, what I'm saying is, that these numbers are not very good at being predictive of your ability, so taking it multiple times is in your benefit, to see which way the needle swings.
Okay, so maybe a perfect 800 is stretching a bit. But over 75% make 700 or better, so there's still far more room for differentiation in the other parts of the test. And, as you pointed out already, the GRE general test is not the most important part of the process, by far. Getting research experience would far and away be the best thing to do to enhance the prospects of getting into their program of choice.
Inasmuch as one worries about the general test at all, though, I maintain that my advice is sound. For a lot of the better programs, they're going to get an awful lot of applications that fall in the "3.5 GPA, top 30% on subject test, good if generic letters of rec and statements of purpose, and a senior research project/REU". Again, the important place to differentiate is that research experience, but, barring that, you can differentiate yourself from that pack by, e.g., having a verbal score in the upper 600s or lower 700s. In my case, it meant the difference between an assistantship and a fellowship.