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Khoo, a suggestion
Bionic Monkey
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
I know you won't read this until after PAX, but I'll throw it out there right now:
Is it too late to get the full 300,000 square feet for next year's venue? Even if attendance stagnates between this year and next, merely doubling the size is not going to be nearly enough. There's barely room to move around right now, and frankly, I'm having a miserable time thus far. If we're stuck with 130,000 feet next year, I think I may pass until 2008.
Is it too late to get the full 300,000 square feet for next year's venue? Even if attendance stagnates between this year and next, merely doubling the size is not going to be nearly enough. There's barely room to move around right now, and frankly, I'm having a miserable time thus far. If we're stuck with 130,000 feet next year, I think I may pass until 2008.
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1. The "Wireless Lounge" is useless. No WiFi, and there are so many DS's that you can't get a single multiplayer game going without (unplayable) lag, not to mention the overall inability to use Pictochat.
2. Post signs RE: Lines. We were at the front of the line for the PA Panel, then got told to go outside as new lines were forming, then one line got let in before the other, and we ended up with the last 2 seats in the far corner (that we had to find in the dark). Not good planning.
3. Too many people, not enough space. Next year, be prepared for 100,000 easy.
407 Columbia St. New Westminster (GVA)
Just off Columbia Skytrain Station.
http://www.gamedeals.ca
So don't worry about it.
It looks like the second day was a bit smoother. The lines were clear, although they were all outside in the sun.
Maybe some sort of "system" could be set up where we get stickers put on our passes to indicate which events we want to see. The stickers could be handed out 1-2 hours in advance of the event, and handed out "rapidly". Then 15 or so minutes before the event an announcement is made and everyone with a sticker can enter the event hall. Then 5 minutes before the event, anyone can enter, sticker or not.
Someone else with more experience would probably have more reasonable minutes/hours figures for the above system.
SL: Da Rahja
crowded rooms, crowded walkways, crowded everything. And every floor smells like gym locker room in 100 degree heat
/signed
Get the PAX 2008 Countdown widget and while away your sad, pathetic life watching it tick down the hours to PAX '08!
http://homepage.mac.com/ctishman
As mentioned, the overcrowding is ridiculous. And that's just talking about the Meydenbauer itself. The tabletop area at the Red Lion is uncomfortably warm and has a vile odor unmatched in my previous olfactory experiences.
My recommendations:
Larger Theaters. We've already talked about how the overall venue is too small, but given the huge demand for almost every panel, a lot of people get left out of what makes PAX.
Organization. PAX has grown to the point where the existing logistics just dont cut it. Lines need to be more organized, areas more clearly labeled, instructions for places like Console Freeplay should be clearly posted.
Security. Don't misunderstand me, the enforcers are awesome. But again, we're dealing with too large a group of people to rely on a ragtag group of volunteers. This is mainly to ensure that the organization stays organized.
Totally unrelated suggestion:
A specific time set aside for signings. Several times I ran into Jerry and Mike (and sometimes Khoo), but felt uncomfortable asking for their autograph. This is despite the fact that I brought two things specifically for them to sign.
Anyway, I recommend sticking with the Bellevue Hilton. They've treated me very well thus far. Their shuttle sucks, but its just a quick jaunt through the bushes to catch the GOOD shuttle running between the red lion and the meydenbauer.
What I am loving is meeting lots of like-minded people. I've struck up conversations everywhere I go. People are friendly and will talk about their interests with little prompting. Don't know much about Nerdcore rap? The guy in the Optimus Rhyme shirt does. That guy witht he Heroes, Inc. box will explain the relative merits of tabletop publishers. Maybe you guys' expectations are off. This isn't the Halo/Madden/MTV extravaganza. It's just geeky paradise.
are you crazy? some cons take ten years to get the turnout that PAX has got in three years. while the jump from 8-9k to 19k (Tycho's quote to me before I left) is impressive, I don't think that 100k is an "easy" number.
edit: unless you're talking space, that is. it was *way* too packed in there, a perfect display would have been the Wireless Lounge area when that Bawls ball was being lobbed around. It took until Sunday for the crowds to die down to a workably enjoyable level, so more space is a must. It's already in the works though, so let's just count the days!
http://www.wsctc.com/
This is the largest venue they can get in the area. It is in downtown Seattle. Here are some of the space specs:
- 205,700 square feet of dedicated heavy-load exhibit space. Divisible into six halls. Accommodates up to 965 10'x l0' booths.
- 20 covered bays at two loading docks
- 45,000 square feet of carpeted ballroom space, divisible into four separate ballrooms
- 57,000 square feet of carpeted meeting space, divisible into 61 versatile meeting rooms support every format
- Four separate and independent registration lobbies
Also, last I heard(was back when the first book was released though), the concerts might be in a different, close place.
Probably not true anymore, but we'll see.
Maybe because it's been there all the times its run.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
- Eliminate lines. Way too much of the hassle this year was the constant lines. If each panel/concert/event room can hold all of the people expected to be in it (and more), then people will come & go as they please, there will be less hassle, less frustration, and people will be more inclined to enjoy themselves in other areas as they will have exponentially more free time.
- More music acts & themed nights. i.e. Have the Video Game Pianist & other "softer" artists on one night (maybe a video games live style orchestra). Then the "rock versions of NES themes" artists on another night, and the "Nerd-core rap" with MC Chris, etc. as a seperate event (may require an early Sunday night concert).
- Make the good panels longer, and seek out better panalists. The "Ask Gabe & Tycho questions" panel is not even close to being long enough. IF they can handle it, make it 3 hours, with a small break in the middle where maybe Khoo answers a few questions for 15 minutes about the business end of things.
- Hire professional event staff. The volunteer enforcers are a great help, but they need more logistical support and pre-production planning/meetings to keep everyone up to speed on each aspect of the show, not to mention more radios and information areas. We had enforcers tell us things that were so wrong that we missed panels because of it. Look to the film industry for these people... cause they know how to make shit run on schedule no matter what (sometimes delays can cost the production many thousands of dollars - so they plan things out so well that there are no delays).
- Make the "Wireless lounge" into many smaller lounges spread throughout the venue. Give them "themes" based on different multiplayer games, or styles of lounge. Have 1 PSP lounge, a "media" lounge with WiFi, and "WiFi lounge" for the regular folk, a few DS lounges seperated by game themes (this year would be "Mario Kart", "Tetris", "Metroid Prime", & other... next year may be different) as well as a pictochat room and a "quiet" room. Speaking of Pictochat... divide the larger event spaces into (invisible) quarters, and put up signs that say "Pictochat room A", etc. so that people can chat with the people closer to them without as much interference & lag.
I know there are more but I can't think of them. The overall feeling from our group was frustration. They wanted to enjoy themselves, but the lines and uninformed enforcers made it very difficult. This could very well be the ultimate gamer convention, but some things need to change, and a move to a bigger venue is only a small piece of the puzzle.
407 Columbia St. New Westminster (GVA)
Just off Columbia Skytrain Station.
http://www.gamedeals.ca
Dude, I can tell you from experience, once you get to the WSCTC, you won't miss Meydenbauer. I come from going to Sakura Con and being squeezed through the Sea-Tac Hilton for four years, one year at the Everett Holiday Inn, and three years at the now, non-existent Southcenter Doubletree (the original small one that's been demolished for the mall expansion).
Once we moved to WSCTC, it was a breath of fresh air, both literally and figuratively. All this space to utilize, and we didn't even use all of it. Of course, our attendance this year was half of this year's PAX. I'm sure PAX '07 will fill the WSCTC very nicely.
There will always be lines. Free seating = need to get there early for best seats = line forming.
Would possibly be a good idea. Even if it's spread out, there will still be an abundance of wireless traffic from people not wanting to go to another lounge area, but it might help.
Woah woah woah.
Ferquin?
The one that used to(dunno if you still do) post at Nintendorks? Or am I tired and delirous? :P Edit: After looking at your www, I can see that you are.
Haven't been to NDorks since aught-two. Had a falling out with their jerk mods and their Plinkomedia bretheren. I'm an N-Sider man nowadays.
Yeah. I only post there once in a rare while and read like...five threads. Nice to see ya.
I think those two suggestions are magnificent.
Regarding the lines... My friends & I learned from prior attendance that PAX lines are useless. You always get in anyway, the lines are enforced poorly (especially once they get moving), and finding a decent vantage point is easy (if you're not too picky).
My specific advice on the lines problem is: a) make sure rooms can hold everyone, b) don't "clear the room" and shut the doors between events (unless absolutely necessary), c) make sure everything runs exactly on time. (It *can* be done.)
The one nice thing about lines? If you're not interested in what the line is for you can go do all the other stuff while the other thousands of people are standing in line with sore legs and DS lites.
And if you do still have lines, don't combine events. Standing in the "Frontalot line" to watch the Guitar Hero Omegathon round was painful.
Congrats to PA for putting on another fine event! I had a great time.
BACK TO ADVENTURE!
There shouldn't be the massive overcrowding issues that have been plauging them for the past couple years.
Gamer Transit Authority
Maybe next year there will be enough space for everybody. Maybe the increase in space will persuade more people to show up, thus not solving the problem.
Two solutions that could be effective (although they may be shot down) are to either limit the number of attendees or increase the admission price drastically. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be willing to pay triple the current price if it granted access to less lines, more space and less hassles.
Another thing I was going to suggest was to decrease the initial admission price (to zero, maybe?) and then charge admission to each panel, tournament, room, etc. However, some panels might be abandoned or people would expect the panels to become suddenly better.
PAX functioned very, very well for what it was. I have been to many a tradeshow and conference like this, and it was done very, very well. Food and water was reasonable and easily acessible, crowds were managed well, given that it was managed by an army of volunteers, and it provided relatively easy access to all of its features.
Shows like this are tough. Expect large crowds, crazy lines and to be packed around like sardines. Everybody else wants to do the same thing you are doing. Crowds and chaos are the natural result, and I have a huge respect and admiration for the Enforcers and the PAX staff that coordinated this year's event.
Is there any convention in the world that does this? It sounds like an absolutely terrible idea to me, but maybe there's some convention out there that made it work?
I think double the space will certainly solve many of the line/crowding issues that we've been having at PAX the last couple of years. Popular events will now be in bigger rooms, which means you can just walk in, instead of standing in line for an hour.
I have been to cons where attendees who paid more got to attend a special event or two. Comic Con has it's "Masquerade" where you pay to attend a party in costume. Star Wars Celebration has it's "Fan Club Breakfasts" where you pay 40 bucks to get a goodie bag and some bad food in a room full of fans hoping to meet Warwick Davis.
I could see having some sort of bonus event like the aforementioned, but if you triple the registration fees, or charge a premium for every panel or show....you're going to lose your audience.
Of course, I suppose the one positive thing about your idea is that PAX could once again be held in the Meydenbauer center, because the attendance would be about right again.
If that's true, that should actually help immensely.
It is HUGE!!!! Even if we are only using 130,000 sq. feet it is more than enough. Also that size is not the final size set in stone. Khoo and Co. know that adjustments may have to be made. 130,000 sq. feet is the starting size they have reserved with additional available on a as needed basis.
I know your concerns, trust me the WSCC has a much better design layout and is a much better place than Meydenbauer Center was. Simply put PAX is growing up, those in charge know this and they knew they would out grow MBC. WSCC will be a perfect home for it.
Indeed. The main problem with the Meydenjackbauer was that the common areas were quite narrow.
The only way I'm flying to Omaha is if I ever go to 311 day.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
Allow me to point out something important. There might be something at the center that makes the managers a little leery about renting out the entire facility. Perhaps because they want to see proof that it can be successful at their venue (changing venues can be a make or break move), thus Robert has chosen only to reserve 130k of space, as you said, Monkey - besides, the goal of the conventions for the Penny Arcade guys is to break even on the expenses, running a convention is not cheap.
Which brings up another possible reason for the 130k - it might be a bit too taxing on the PA coffers to rent the entire facility out on the first year at the new venue. Robert Khoo is a business-minded person with an eye for fun, so just be patient and scout out the facility for yourself if you want. I've been there numerous times, and it is one hell of a place.
Best of all? THERE IS A FREAKING GAMEWORKS ARCADE RIGHT ACROSS THE FRIGGING STREET. Two floors of gaming, awesome.
And for restaraunts in Downtown Seattle, well...take a look around! There's the Fox Sports Grill, The Cheesecake Factory, the Pike Place Market, or for the neurotically addicted, Starbucks.
Trust me, it'll be the best venue in the city - the main problem is lodging! There are lots of places sure, but this is downtown seattle, thus very expensive. And worst of all is that Metro service stops running at 2:00 PM in Seattle, so getting home for me will be nigh impossible.
So I'm hoping Robert talks with the city about extending public transportation hours for that particular weekend (Like hell that would happen). There are several hotels a couple or so blocks from the Convention Center. Some of you may be familiar with the cylindrical towers - I forget the name of that hotel. It was once considered one of the most posh hotels in the area.
-Kato
fuck 311, they don't even acknowledge they came from Omaha now. Now they say they grew up in California.
[spoiler:7ccc664f5f]They lived in my neighborhood.[/spoiler:7ccc664f5f]
Actually the LA Convention center is almost 3.5 times the size of WA state convention center. Almost 900k square feet when you add in floor space and meeting rooms. The place is huge.
He had to pay for his portion of the roomspace with Paypal, because he couldn't even use his credit card to take out cash at any other ATM in the area.
-Bressler