HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited August 2008
Why do fundies like the WBC even have rights of free speech in the first place? They should just be gathered up, shot and be given no funeral! From a utilitarian perspective it's wrong not to have them raped and killed!!!
Why do fundies like the WBC even have rights of free speech in the first place? They should just be gathered up, shot and be given no funeral! From a utilitarian perspective it's wrong not to have them raped and killed!!!
We have no universal freedom of speech in Canada. There are things which are illegal to say.
This is patently false.
Canadian citizens have freedom of expression, which is subject to certain limits as can be reasonably justified in a free and democratic society. And those limits are not enforced like speeding tickets; someone has to bring a complaint against someone else before a court, which examines such cases on an individual basis. We do not have "things which are illegal to say".
Although, certainly, foreign tourists making disruptive and vulgar public demonstrations are in no way extended that freedom and, as in any country, Canadian authorities may deem to disperse or remove said troublemakers.
I'd say everyone loses if you have a gunfight on a bus with 37 people aboard.
I watched a police training video on knives and they did a training scenario. Within 13 feet the man with the knife was able to inflict life threatening wounds before the police officer could even draw the gun. They also showed real knife wounds at the end. Everyone saying that the people should have fought back should have to watch that video over and over.
It was part of our last guns are bad/scary/ thread if I remember right. The idea being that if you pull a knife on a cop they should not consider it that deadly of a weapon and not respond with deadly force. The gist is that at under 20 feet a knife is more dangerous than a gun due to the ability of the knife wielder to get in range and fatally stab you faster than you can draw and effectively fire.
IE cops are perfectly justified in shooting anyone dumb enough to wave a knife at an officer because trying to use less lethal/non lethal take downs poses far to much risk for them vs a knife wielding psycho. Half lethal/half non lethal also doesnt work because by the time you can determine if non lethal worked your buddy is sporting a neck accessory.
And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited August 2008
Although the 21 foot threat range is based on open ground, not a crowded bus where the guy is currently busy stabberating the guy next to him, so whatever with that.
If someone on the bus had a gun, then the best case scenario would be one dead man, one dead psycho, and I think having the psycho in custody so at least it can be better figured out just what the fuck was in his head is the better resolution.
Although the 21 foot threat range is based on open ground, not a crowded bus where the guy is currently busy stabberating the guy next to him, so whatever with that.
If someone on the bus had a gun, then the best case scenario would be one dead man, one dead psycho, and I think having the psycho in custody so at least it can be better figured out just what the fuck was in his head is the better resolution.
I disagree, having the psycho dead on the floor is the optimum best case scenario. Now he has to be sent for psychological testing, determined fit/unfit for trial, then locked up for the rest of his life while society pays for his incarceration. All while hoping he doesn't snap again and kill someone else.
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
The 21 feet is also a "best case" for a knife wielder who has a knife out, is aware of the party drawing down on him and reacts and rushes him without pause. It also supposes a person with a medial, not expert, level of marksmanship and draw.
There are people out there who can draw, fire and reload much faster then someone who's simply qualified with a sidearm. There's some people who can draw and empty a revolver in under a second.
Not to say they're typical either.
Although the 21 foot threat range is based on open ground, not a crowded bus where the guy is currently busy stabberating the guy next to him, so whatever with that.
If someone on the bus had a gun, then the best case scenario would be one dead man, one dead psycho, and I think having the psycho in custody so at least it can be better figured out just what the fuck was in his head is the better resolution.
I disagree, having the psycho dead on the floor is the optimum best case scenario. Now he has to be sent for psychological testing, determined fit/unfit for trial, then locked up for the rest of his life while society pays for his incarceration. All while hoping he doesn't snap again and kill someone else.
Oh yeah, jesus. What a terror. He's going to have to be tried justly as though we were some sort of society built around ideals that don't crumble at the first sign of stress.
Oh yeah, jesus. What a terror. He's going to have to be tried justly as though we were some sort of society built around ideals that don't crumble at the first sign of stress.
Ohhhh shiiiit.
Then again it is Canada, so let them deal with him for the rest of his life.
Oh yeah, jesus. What a terror. He's going to have to be tried justly as though we were some sort of society built around ideals that don't crumble at the first sign of stress.
Ohhhh shiiiit.
Then again it is Canada, so let them deal with him for the rest of his life.
You're missing the point here. He's psychotic. He's valuable for the sake of study so that this type of situation could possibly be avoided in the future. More so, unless your prisons are repeatedly releasing psychopaths into society, there's no reason not to incarcerate him unless you can demonstrate the net positive value of killing the mentally ill.
Although, certainly, foreign tourists making disruptive and vulgar public demonstrations are in no way extended that freedom and, as in any country, Canadian authorities may deem to disperse or remove said troublemakers.
The Charter applies to foreigners in Canada.
This might help clear up some confusion, but Canada's freedom of speech is pretty much identical to that in the U.S., just the mechanics are a little different. Where in Canada speech can be restricted through the use of s.1 (the "limits as can be reasonably justified in a free and democratic society" Azio mentions) in the U.S. the courts will usually do something like declare the matter to not be "speech". Take obscenity as an example. In Canada we might say that it's speech, but speech that can still be restricted. In the U.S. the court will opt to say that freedom of speech simply doesn't include obscene material. The end result is the same either way.
In Canada, freedom of speech is considered a right because it facilitates three core values - truth, self-expression and political participation. Whether speech can be restricted rests on how close the material is to these core values. Obviously, foolishness such as what the Phelps' get on with is quite on the fringe, and the restriction much less onerous.
The 21 feet is also a "best case" for a knife wielder who has a knife out, is aware of the party drawing down on him and reacts and rushes him without pause. It also supposes a person with a medial, not expert, level of marksmanship and draw.
There are people out there who can draw, fire and reload much faster then someone who's simply qualified with a sidearm. There's some people who can draw and empty a revolver in under a second.
Not to say they're typical either.
The 21 feet is also a "best case" for a knife wielder who has a knife out, is aware of the party drawing down on him and reacts and rushes him without pause. It also supposes a person with a medial, not expert, level of marksmanship and draw.
There are people out there who can draw, fire and reload much faster then someone who's simply qualified with a sidearm. There's some people who can draw and empty a revolver in under a second.
Not to say they're typical either.
We have no universal freedom of speech in Canada. There are things which are illegal to say. Namely things like hate speech, which is why WBC is being turned away at our borders.
Nope, this isn't correct. While it's true that we have no universal rights due to s.1 as AJ said, it's also true that the line where "hate speech" is or isn't crossed is pretty fuzzy under both the criminal and HRC systems.
The reason the WBC is being turned away at the border is because Canada hangs a sign at the border that says "we reserve the right to refuse service." There doesn't have to be a particular reason to not let people into the country and certainly not a legally valid one. If the public safety minister says he doesn't want somebody or a group of people in the county, they don't get in.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
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The 21 feet is also a "best case" for a knife wielder who has a knife out, is aware of the party drawing down on him and reacts and rushes him without pause. It also supposes a person with a medial, not expert, level of marksmanship and draw.
There are people out there who can draw, fire and reload much faster then someone who's simply qualified with a sidearm. There's some people who can draw and empty a revolver in under a second.
Not to say they're typical either.
Bet that guy could have taken Li down within 13 feet...
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Canadian citizens have freedom of expression, which is subject to certain limits as can be reasonably justified in a free and democratic society. And those limits are not enforced like speeding tickets; someone has to bring a complaint against someone else before a court, which examines such cases on an individual basis. We do not have "things which are illegal to say".
Although, certainly, foreign tourists making disruptive and vulgar public demonstrations are in no way extended that freedom and, as in any country, Canadian authorities may deem to disperse or remove said troublemakers.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
IE cops are perfectly justified in shooting anyone dumb enough to wave a knife at an officer because trying to use less lethal/non lethal take downs poses far to much risk for them vs a knife wielding psycho. Half lethal/half non lethal also doesnt work because by the time you can determine if non lethal worked your buddy is sporting a neck accessory.
And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
If someone on the bus had a gun, then the best case scenario would be one dead man, one dead psycho, and I think having the psycho in custody so at least it can be better figured out just what the fuck was in his head is the better resolution.
I disagree, having the psycho dead on the floor is the optimum best case scenario. Now he has to be sent for psychological testing, determined fit/unfit for trial, then locked up for the rest of his life while society pays for his incarceration. All while hoping he doesn't snap again and kill someone else.
There are people out there who can draw, fire and reload much faster then someone who's simply qualified with a sidearm. There's some people who can draw and empty a revolver in under a second.
Not to say they're typical either.
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Oh yeah, jesus. What a terror. He's going to have to be tried justly as though we were some sort of society built around ideals that don't crumble at the first sign of stress.
Ohhhh shiiiit.
Then again it is Canada, so let them deal with him for the rest of his life.
This might help clear up some confusion, but Canada's freedom of speech is pretty much identical to that in the U.S., just the mechanics are a little different. Where in Canada speech can be restricted through the use of s.1 (the "limits as can be reasonably justified in a free and democratic society" Azio mentions) in the U.S. the courts will usually do something like declare the matter to not be "speech". Take obscenity as an example. In Canada we might say that it's speech, but speech that can still be restricted. In the U.S. the court will opt to say that freedom of speech simply doesn't include obscene material. The end result is the same either way.
In Canada, freedom of speech is considered a right because it facilitates three core values - truth, self-expression and political participation. Whether speech can be restricted rests on how close the material is to these core values. Obviously, foolishness such as what the Phelps' get on with is quite on the fringe, and the restriction much less onerous.
...is that a euphamism for something?
Nope, this isn't correct. While it's true that we have no universal rights due to s.1 as AJ said, it's also true that the line where "hate speech" is or isn't crossed is pretty fuzzy under both the criminal and HRC systems.
The reason the WBC is being turned away at the border is because Canada hangs a sign at the border that says "we reserve the right to refuse service." There doesn't have to be a particular reason to not let people into the country and certainly not a legally valid one. If the public safety minister says he doesn't want somebody or a group of people in the county, they don't get in.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
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