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Guy thread - relationship doomed?
amberlock
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So you know, just to balance out all the girl threads. This will be long.
I have known this guy for 4 years. We've lived together 18 months or so. Technically we've been 'more than friends' for about 2 years now. He has a problem identifying a word for our relationship. That's a problem but I don't care about that in the context of this thread.
Anyway. I'm a super-realistic person so if you guys tell me that I should just leave, I'll do it, I'm not one of those people that will fluff around saying "but I loveeeeeee him and I want to make it work" when its a waste of time. That said, I am in love, and feel very loved in return.
Problem: Sex is very infrequent. It's pretty awesome when it happens, but it doesn't happen often enough. Sometimes once a month, sometimes once every 2 weeks. I would prefer: every 2-3 days.
Here is what I have tried:
Doing nothing - we went 2+ months. I didn't say anything, didn't try anything, didn't even mention sex or anything the whole time. No change.
Communication, both subtle and non-subtle. I started with trying to initiate sex myself when I was interested, he will mainly brush me off or fall asleep. Tactics range from: kissing, moving his hands where I want them to actually stroking him. Even if he gets semi-hard he'll just roll over/block my hand. It's to the point where he sleeps purposefully so I can't do this.
I've also directly said "hey, I'd love more sex, it's very fulfilling but its a bit scarce". He shrugs this conversation off with excuses (some valid, some not, but come on, people can make an excuse not to do anything, its about making time). This of course had no effect even for a short period.
I am careful to stay clean, waxed (which is his preference, I have asked and received a direct answer), and I wear nice clothes that make me look good.
I have tried walking around partly or completely nude, while he usually comes close for a feel and a kiss, he'll then just go back to playing video games or whatever.
I have tried different times of day - in the late evening when we're in bed, or early evening after taking a shower, in the morning on weekends, and also right when we get home from work which is roughly about the same time.
The other thing is - I know he masturbates about every second day. He doesn't know I know this, but I know it for sure. He'll go into the computer room downstairs, usually in the mid-late evening.
I have both jokingly (trying to keep it light) and directly (not subtle, in case I was too obtuse) asked him about masturbation. He refuses to answer the question. I mean, he will actually shrug at me and refuse to say a word on the subject. He has never shown any interest in watching me, nor even asked whether I do. When he goes to the comp room - he looks at fairly normal still-image porn on the net. Nothing crazy like he's into dogs or something that would give me a clue whats going on. The women sometimes look like me, sometimes not. I have zero problems with porn at all. I would love to watch it with him, or if not, thats fine too because I do the same. My only issue is that he's masturbating about as often as I want sex, and I'm getting no action!!
I have asked him a few questions too. If he catches a look up my skirt or something I might jokingly say "do you like that panty shot". He will do the same thing as above ^ refuse to answer the question with a yes or no, just a shrug and he'll walk away. I've asked him what he's interested in, positions, roleplay, etc etc, never get any response, "eh" is the most verbal I've ever got in response and this is pretty out of character.
When we are having sex, I will ask him questions about what feels good, he'll do the shrug thing again. I've also tried saying nothing and just trying to guess. It's not fucking easy and I hate not having a little bit of communication. I'd also like to be able to talk about what I like, but he never asks and when I volunteer the information as sexily as I can, he feels like he's failed or something and gets sulky.
So, tell me guys. Does he just not find me attractive? That's cool, lay on the honesty. I'd rather be with someone that finds me sexy. I have tried both lots of communication, both direct or indirect. I have tried not communicating at all in case he finds it too overbearing. Makes no difference.
Hmm, I have some other things to ask you guys but this is long enough to start. Tell me whats going on.
EDIT: We are both 26. Full time jobs, normal 9-5 schedule, same weekend days off.
I have known this guy for 4 years. We've lived together 18 months or so. Technically we've been 'more than friends' for about 2 years now. He has a problem identifying a word for our relationship. That's a problem but I don't care about that in the context of this thread.
Anyway. I'm a super-realistic person so if you guys tell me that I should just leave, I'll do it, I'm not one of those people that will fluff around saying "but I loveeeeeee him and I want to make it work" when its a waste of time. That said, I am in love, and feel very loved in return.
Problem: Sex is very infrequent. It's pretty awesome when it happens, but it doesn't happen often enough. Sometimes once a month, sometimes once every 2 weeks. I would prefer: every 2-3 days.
Here is what I have tried:
Doing nothing - we went 2+ months. I didn't say anything, didn't try anything, didn't even mention sex or anything the whole time. No change.
Communication, both subtle and non-subtle. I started with trying to initiate sex myself when I was interested, he will mainly brush me off or fall asleep. Tactics range from: kissing, moving his hands where I want them to actually stroking him. Even if he gets semi-hard he'll just roll over/block my hand. It's to the point where he sleeps purposefully so I can't do this.
I've also directly said "hey, I'd love more sex, it's very fulfilling but its a bit scarce". He shrugs this conversation off with excuses (some valid, some not, but come on, people can make an excuse not to do anything, its about making time). This of course had no effect even for a short period.
I am careful to stay clean, waxed (which is his preference, I have asked and received a direct answer), and I wear nice clothes that make me look good.
I have tried walking around partly or completely nude, while he usually comes close for a feel and a kiss, he'll then just go back to playing video games or whatever.
I have tried different times of day - in the late evening when we're in bed, or early evening after taking a shower, in the morning on weekends, and also right when we get home from work which is roughly about the same time.
The other thing is - I know he masturbates about every second day. He doesn't know I know this, but I know it for sure. He'll go into the computer room downstairs, usually in the mid-late evening.
I have both jokingly (trying to keep it light) and directly (not subtle, in case I was too obtuse) asked him about masturbation. He refuses to answer the question. I mean, he will actually shrug at me and refuse to say a word on the subject. He has never shown any interest in watching me, nor even asked whether I do. When he goes to the comp room - he looks at fairly normal still-image porn on the net. Nothing crazy like he's into dogs or something that would give me a clue whats going on. The women sometimes look like me, sometimes not. I have zero problems with porn at all. I would love to watch it with him, or if not, thats fine too because I do the same. My only issue is that he's masturbating about as often as I want sex, and I'm getting no action!!
I have asked him a few questions too. If he catches a look up my skirt or something I might jokingly say "do you like that panty shot". He will do the same thing as above ^ refuse to answer the question with a yes or no, just a shrug and he'll walk away. I've asked him what he's interested in, positions, roleplay, etc etc, never get any response, "eh" is the most verbal I've ever got in response and this is pretty out of character.
When we are having sex, I will ask him questions about what feels good, he'll do the shrug thing again. I've also tried saying nothing and just trying to guess. It's not fucking easy and I hate not having a little bit of communication. I'd also like to be able to talk about what I like, but he never asks and when I volunteer the information as sexily as I can, he feels like he's failed or something and gets sulky.
So, tell me guys. Does he just not find me attractive? That's cool, lay on the honesty. I'd rather be with someone that finds me sexy. I have tried both lots of communication, both direct or indirect. I have tried not communicating at all in case he finds it too overbearing. Makes no difference.
Hmm, I have some other things to ask you guys but this is long enough to start. Tell me whats going on.
EDIT: We are both 26. Full time jobs, normal 9-5 schedule, same weekend days off.
amberlock on
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If i see my girlfriend walking around naked I will practically jump on her.
Note that a guy masturbating even when getting regular sex is normal, most guys still do it.
But ya, not wanting sex with you is just wrong, especially if he's looking at porn. I don't think he's attracted to you anymore.
I would be upfront with him. Explain to him that this little communication is unhealthy for both of you, and that you want more sex. Cut through the crap cake and don't bother with anything passive aggressive. Look him in the eye and say ,"we need to have more sex." Don't be surprised if he shrugs and looks at you. I would look for someone else at that point.
edit: if you just want to make him horny start feeding him seeds like pumpkin seeds. Anything with zinc in it.
Shogun Streams Vidya
He's probably not attracted to you.
Thanks for the comments so far.
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Trying that tack with a woman, for example, would often not result in success.
Maybe this guy's triggers are just different than most guys.
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This.
Just a question from a fellow female; how is he with regards to physical contact like cuddling, kissing etc.? From what you have said he doesn't seem to be a very open person, it seems he is more ashamed and evasive than disinterested in talking about things like sex and masturbation. Maybe I'm reading into the not-wanting-to-talk-about-things too deeply, in which case he may not be attracted to you like some have suggested, but you have said he has troubles identifying a word for the relationship.. that sounds like he may not even be interested in being in the/a relationship at all? In either case I think you both need a good honest talk, if he can cope with that.
Maybe you should make one last pitch to how you feel. It seems to me like you feel like there's more wrong with your relationship than just sex: it appears to extend to a lack of intimacy in general. Tell him how you feel, and how you want to work together to change the situation. If he still makes no effort whatsoever to make a change, you're basically in a dead-end relationship. Dump him.
I know a few guys like that. They've always been like that and nothing's ever really changed them. It's like they just don't feel things particularly strongly - including sexual desire.
From what you've described, I don't think you're going to change his behavior. I think that in this case, what you see is what you get.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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- He takes me with him to all his family stuff, they all love me a lot.
- He does say nice things without me expecting/asking for them, like he'll make positive comments about clothes that I wear, he'll call me beautiful, etc etc. I am FULLY aware this might just be trying to keep me around but since he doesn't really want sex I am not sure what he DOES want from me?
- Some people have assumed he's gay before, yeah. He thought it was funny and joked along with it. He doesn't get offended but he has none of the signs that I know. I hang out in the gay community, both sexes, pretty frequently so I have a half-decent gay-dar.
- He has talked about marriage and kids, but wants to wait longer than I would.
- We have this weird thing going on where we basically joke about each other finding someone else and getting married to them. That stems out of the fact that when I ask whether he wants to be officially dating he'll respond 'its already way beyond dating'.
- He has asked me about how I would raise children, what is my dream wedding, what is my dream proposal scenario.
- He's told a few of his guy friends to back off (not in my presence, I found out through another friend) when they were getting really close.
- We spend a lot of time together, we have no secrets, we don't fight about anything more serious than what is for dinner.
- He'll do all the regular stuff, we have our own eye code to talk when we can't say what we want to in public, we have a bunch of silly in-jokes.
- When we go out without each other with friends, he often comes back early, or will always bring something (food, gifts) because he wanted to be with me.
- After a long trip for work or something things get pretty steamy upon return.
We have healthy separate friendship groups, don't worry.
Trust me, I'm not an idiot. I know all these things may mean absolutely nothing, might just be tricks to try and get me into bed. Problem is, I'd LOVE to be in bed and I ain't getting there.
(Is he British?)
2. Channeling my inner advice columnist, the biggest thing is that you should make any decisions with the expectation that nothing will change, and things could go on like this for decades. Totally up to you what you are willing to live with and whether this guy's positive attributes somehow balance things out.
My guess is that he loves you but isn't in love with you. He knows that something has to change but doesn't want to admit that because it will hurt you and shake up his comfortable existence. But I could be wrong. Is he shy, emotionally repressed otherwise? The sex is good when it happens and you feel emotionally good around him even though he's blowing you off? Has it always been like this?
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Sorta, yeah. I thought it was just more of the not attracted to me though.
By sorta I mean:
- In 2 years he's basically only cum inside twice. Usually, its mouth/hand required.
- He lasts wayyyyy long. I've commented about the whole "death grip" thing and of course, shrug city. Same old same old. He seemed surprised that I could even help him get off.
- He's usually hard already by the time we get past the kissing phase. For all I know he could have been getting prepped in the computer room for the previous hour. I've never paid attention to what he does pre-sex because its so infrequent and unexpected I can't exactly prepare.
- He has overly ridiculous fears about pregnancy, even with condoms and BC, and yet will still start off with no condom and then stop halfway to put one on.
- The few times I've been able to "initiate" sex he'll usually disappear once things get heavy to shower, or pee or something... I dunno??
Not british but he's pretty reserved. Hates public affection, will close the blinds and the blackout blinds if we are so much as kissing. It took like 6 months before the cats were even allowed to wander in/out of the room. He kicked them out every time previous. (I could care less what the cats do, they never get near the bed, even if we're not rocking out on it).
Yes, thats a thread of itself I think. He says dating is a really cheap word for it. But I'm not introduced as his g/f either. He introduced me to some family a few months back (in front of the rest of the family that know me very well) as "His roommate". His aunts all burst out laughing.
I used to be pretty close to this camp. You could go down the list for schizoid personality disorder and check every single box. I was mostly emotionally sealing myself off of some difficult stuff. Am I better now? Yeah, somewhat, seven or eight years later after a really concerted effort on my part. These things can change, but nothing will happen unless he wants to change for himself.
This sounds a lot like a guy I knew who lived with a girl who basically lost her virginity to him at 16 (skipped a bunch of grades and got to college early) and bonded pretty heavily. Well they were kind of made for each other, in that they both accepted each other's flaws more completely than I could picture anyone else doing so...I would say he loves her but also doesn't give that much of a shit about her feelings, and sees sex with her as more of a backup thing than something to be excited about.
You want something more from the relationship and you have acted to get that something on multiple occaisions. Your man has not reacted positively to your stimuli and continues to deny that which you want.
Sounds like its time to find greener pastures. On the not officially dating thing alone you're knee deep in shit creek. Time to dust yourself off and find yourself a more sexually active (damn of all the problems to have believe that will be easy to fix) and open guy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Well, I think there's definitely something deeper at work here.
Long story short, though, in light of everything you've said, my suggestion would be to DTMFA.
On many levels, it doesn't sound like a particularly fulfilling relationship. For either of you.
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I guess we're all friends here, so... um... this pretty much describes my past issues perfectly. At my worst I would be incredibly hard whlie making out and basically go limp as soon as it was time for any sort of penetration. (I was always fine with porn, it's emotionally safe.) I am better off now but my mind still gets in the way pretty often and I feel terrible and anxious when that happens. And of course the easy thing to do is just shut down, because that's my way of handling difficult situations. In my case it is entirely a trust issue... there is a tremendous amount of emotional reactivity that has taken me years and years to work through. I simply do not trust people getting that close to me, although I will push past that in certain disinhibited cases.
I don't want you to think of your guy as a charity case or anything. It is also true that I have categorically pushed away people where there was a chance of something serious (followed by months of emotional self-abuse), and dated people I thought were "nice" and that my friends would find reasonably attractive for quite a long time without really looking at what I was doing. My girlfriends probably saw about what you are seeing. So that's why I lean towards "he loves you, but not in love with you."
Yes. We've talked openly about medical problems, parents divorces, death of my sibling, death of a couple of his very close family, our feelings about friends and their drama, our frustrations over friends that let us down, what we look for and expect in partners, my exs, what we want from the future.... I can't think of anything else thats particulary personal that might also count.
What he will NOT talk about: his ex's (of any kind. I do know one of them, nothing too weird there - I've been told by friends that its his right to keep the past secret so I have never made a deal of it at all), sex between us, sex between other people, whether other girls are hot, guys we both know that I had crushes on in the past (don't think thats unusual), birth control.
He does find my celebrity crushes hilarious and brings them up often.
He's shy and outgoing at the same time. I guess to quantify that - he makes friends easily, loves to have a good time out with them, or with mutual friends, but it's a bit of a facade. While he enjoys the time out there, I know he's not actually sharing anything personal with those people. He's very reserved in personal details and shares with practically nobody. For example: He is not a guy where you would say "Oh hey! There's a girl he will like!" none of his friends would even know what his girl preferences are. Most of them hardly know anything personal about him. They just know about his hobbies, his movie and music tastes and such.
I think loving me without being in love is probably very valid.
EDIT: He only blows me off with the sex and I guess public affection. Other than that he is open with his money and time, he's very affectionate, hugs me like 5 times a day, kisses about as often, will touch me a lot, wants to cuddle a lot, but if I put my hand down his pants he shuts down.
So only outward displays that you guys are going out? And he doesn't call you his girlfriend?
Sounds like you aren't what he wants, but he'll settle for the emotional security until his real ms. perfect comes along. You're being used, and worse then that not even being fulfilled while being used.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Sorry I missed this question. I haven't had any clues toward this. He's quite affectionate generally. He'll give a hug to his other lady friends but is quite careful not to piss off their b/f's so it is sometimes a bit stiff.
And with me- very much so. Touches me, tickles me (even in public), hugs... but hates holding hands or doing the arm-around thing.
It's entirely possible, he seems to have this kinda... charming the MILF thing going, although it always seems like boyish innocence. I think that's the absolute only thing I can even think of that might hint toward anything in the past.
Also he went to a catholic school. He's not catholic himself now, and his family aren't super serious about it really, but it might affect things?
Personal experience, and the parts I questioned in my post. I tell people you're not my girlfriend its because I don't want to admit that, I don't want you to kiss me in public or show any affection beyond simple friendship, I don't want people to make that inference we could be dating.
He either wants to find a better woman to fuck, or he feels treating the OP like she's just a friend is a great way to show affection.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Just something I spotted....
This sounds like anxiety in regards to performance. I know I get anxious and such sometimes - and it may be hard for him to talk about this kind of stuff, but he needs to if it's going to be a satisfying time with each other.
So assuming I lay it out and don't get an appropriate response, can you tell me what the best way to break things off is? If you were this guy, would you want me to be really specific and tell you exactly everything you did wrong?
Or should I just say "I've mentioned before I'm not satisfied with the quantity of sex, things haven't changed, and we can't even have a conversation about anything we enjoy that is sexual. I am looking for someone that can satisfy those needs, so our quasi-relationship whatever you call it is over." ??
Does he already know this? Should I just say "You know why, cya"?
This is a long, serious, living-together relationship we're talking about here, though. I honestly don't see what you're saying at all in what amberlock has said.
I would say that on a conscious level he probably doesn't intend anything like that. Sounds like he has some real issues though, probably with sexual shame.
Edit: amberlock, I think you've pretty much got it squared.
Please man, that's giving this guy way more then the benefit of the doubt, thats giving him the mountain of the doubt. If he's that clueless into what he's doing then it still doesn't help her.
He's using her either way, either he's an idiot or an asshole.
Amber the best way would be to do it honestly. Say that he hasn't been sexually fulfilling to you and that when you try and bring it up he shrugs it off. Also bring up that a relationship is two people working together and perhaps he needs therapy to adjust to a more healthy lifestyle.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I would just bring up the major problem you have about this relationship, not every little thing. The problem is that you need a more sexually active person in order to be happy. Don't go into "I am looking for someone else" stuff - simply say that the lack of sex hurts the relationship to such a degree that you do not feel as if it could survive and if you want to end it - be firm and resolved.
What I do know is that if he doesn't seem to particularly care about it, and he's not willing to talk about it, then it's unlikely to change - and even if it does change, it probably won't change much or for a very long time.
So make a decision. Decide whether you're willing to stay with him even with a lack of sex, or you want to leave him, or if you want to try another arrangement (like an open relationship).
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
NO. Especially after you already laid things out for him. I'm pretty sure he has a good idea what's going on, I would just say it's not working. Maybe if he's refusing to look at any of this it might be good for him... but that's not your job anymore.
Great bottom line, in my opinion.