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No grounded outlets in new apartment
wasted pixels
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm moving into a new place in St. Louis, and I was frustrated last night to discover that all of the outlets (save for the GFCIs in the kitchen and bathroom) are two-prong outlets. I didn't notice during the initial walk-through of the place because the apartment was occupied at the time, and there was furniture in front of most of the outlets.
If my memory serves, this is (technically) up to code: the GFCIs will keep me from getting zapped, but as far as I know, surge protectors are useless without an actual ground. Obviously I'd like to get the wiring upgraded, but I have a feeling that the owners will be hesitant to foot the bill.
What are my options here? How much should I expect to pay to get the apartment wired properly? Is that $10 Walmart surge protector really doing me any good anyway, or could I probably get by without one?
Thanks, H/A.
If my memory serves, this is (technically) up to code: the GFCIs will keep me from getting zapped, but as far as I know, surge protectors are useless without an actual ground. Obviously I'd like to get the wiring upgraded, but I have a feeling that the owners will be hesitant to foot the bill.
What are my options here? How much should I expect to pay to get the apartment wired properly? Is that $10 Walmart surge protector really doing me any good anyway, or could I probably get by without one?
Thanks, H/A.
wasted pixels on
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If, however, the boxes aren't grounded, it is a much bigger procedure. A ground wire will need to be run from the receptacle to the panel. If this is the case, you are probably out of luck.
If you want to test for ground, you will need a simple voltage tester. Stick one end in the hot (Usually right hand) side and the other onto the plate screw. You might have to move it around to make contact with bare metal. If that doesn't work, you can take the plate off and check from hot to the screws holding the receptacle in the box. If neither of those work, there is still some faint hope, but it will require visual inspection with the receptacle removed. Remember, be very careful around live electricity. At this step I would recommend turning the power off .
Power off. Remove receptacle. Now look for a bare copper wire in the box. That will be the ground. If it is there, power back up and, being careful, check hot to ground for voltage. If you get voltage, everything is good. From here you would replace the receptacle (power off) with a new one, hooking up the wires properly.
First step would be to talk to the landlord though and see if he is willing to help. You may get lucky.
Because sometimes a picture is faster and clearer than an explanation.
Thanks, I have a fair bit more hope now. If I'm lucky enough to have some way of grounding to the box, I can take care of that myself. One question, though:
Is that a "you'll need a pricey professional electrician out of luck", or a "you're shit out of luck"?
I'd still like to get some input on how critical a surge protector really is, too. I'm sure the higher-end ones have some value, but I really do expect that my cheap ones are just glorified power strips anyway.
Technically the first, but it usually requires putting a bunch of holes in the walls to run the wire which gets expensive extremely quickly.
How critical a surge protector is depends on where you live and how often you get spikes or surges. If they happen frequently and at a the voltage increases enough it can shorten the life or damage your equipment.
Surge protector's are good and bad. They are good because they will protect, to some extent, from sloppy power and lightning strikes, and usually pay out on anything that gets through them. They are bad because they can encourage you to overload a circuit, but that just takes common sense to fix. Also, like khain said, it really depends on how clean your local power is. I've never had a surge take out anything in my life, but I still protect my expensive electronics.
Edit:
As an addendum, in reference to that picture that wasted pixels posted. That metal piece with the hole in it needs to be screwed to the receptacle, through the plate, in order for it to function as a ground. This is in addition to the necessity that the old style receptacle actually be grounded. Those adapters will work without an actual ground though, it just isn't recommended.
As for the screw in "ground" adaptors, they will work if the building is a lower resistance ground than you.
You're snarky, but you have the same Maverick that I do. I can't be too mad.
I just wanted to say thanks for all of the additional advice, particularly from Mushiwulf. I'd say my question is pretty well answered. Thanks!
My Maverick is full custom. Custom paint, graphics removed, port cleared, chamber stop removed, etc. Seriously, be careful when using the three prong "adaptor", electricity likes the path of least resistance. Often it is the guy changing the CD.
Is it Direct Threat's work, or just a similar approach? Mine is a more battle-scarred version of this.
And yes, I'm well aware of the hazards of ungrounded electronics, if the outlets aren't groundable, I'll either be hiring an electrician or (depending on cost) potentially just negotiating an early end to on the lease and looking for something more modern.
Better pictures:
Not really a good idea if you're going to be plugging power strips + a bunch of crap in there. Running 10+ things of a single outlet is not a good idea.
Figure out if the outlets are grounded and then use adapters.
In most older structures the outlet box is not grounded to anything other than the box being nailed to the studs. So the structure needs to have less resistance than your body for the adaptor to work.
There may be some boxes that have a ground wire run to them with just a two prong receptacle but I have never seen one, it would be just as easy to go ahead and install the three prong receptacle.
And there are lots of three prong receptacles that are not grounded. So watch out for that.
Get a ground fault tester, which will also tell you if the outlet has the correct polarity. They are cheap
If the building is old enough, the wire was run in either conduit or armor, into metal boxes, and so there is an easy path to ground. If it is new enough, there is a ground wire there, even if it isn't hooked up. There was a period in between though when romex cable did not include a ground, and that is the worst of the three as far as this situation is concerned.
The funny part about grounded circuits is that the ground wire and the grounded conductor (white) go to the same place in most panels. It is more about having an additional path to ground than any special properties of the ground wire itself. It protects you from certain short circuit conditions That wouldn't normally trip a breaker.
In the long run, the ground isn't going to matter that much for surge supression, it is just nice to have.
I'm confused as shit
My gf has just got into our apartment in Santa Cruz, CA. Apparently the apartment is nice. It seems relatively new (30 years old tops), but all the outlets are two-prong.
I've read this whole thread, but I've got all confuzzled with all the different testers and what-not.
My plan was just to get a surge protected power strip, and then connect it to the two-prong outlet with one of those 3-to-2 prong connectors in the picture from wasted pixels. Turn off the fuse, unscrew the screw, put the connector in. Can I safely assume that this is going to be grounded? If not, is there any danger in doing this? Am I at any sort of electrical fire risk?
My plan is to connect up a 24" LCD monitor, speakers, laptop charger, phone charger and Xbox 360 to it. Obviously, they won't be all on at the same time, so I'm not concerned with overloading.
I like good old beefy UK plugs
I think all of those items could be on the same circuit at the same time without overloading. None of them are particularly demanding. If you want to be sure, look at the labels and add up the wattage. If you are under 1800 watts, you will be fine.
Throw the breaker for an outlet and remove the cover. See if there is a ground wire run but not hooked to the outlet. This kind of stuff, three prong but not installed correctly is the most dangerous, because you expect the stuff to be wired correctly.
Ground protection is to protect you in the case of a short in the unit that does not cause a breaker to trip but is bleeding electricity to the unit case.
I am not as familiar with surge protection but I believe it acts more like a circuit breaker to cut the path in the event of a big power increase.
Also, if you are unsure if the wiring is hot but you still really want to touch it, keep one hand in your pocket. That way you don't turn your body into a pathway.
:^:
Thanks chief!