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Insane game dev asks pirates to email him

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Posts

  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    You're missing astoundingly little.

    I think on the first page the "I don't want to pay for it twice" thing wasn't really moral justification, it was just saying "I've spent the money I'm gonna spend and now I'm just gonna take it because I don't want to re-spend that money".

    I have some basic sympathy to the general idea, because you shouldn't be forced to re-buy music if you want an MP3 and you own the CD. I don't know if that directly applies to this situation, though.

    Pheezer on
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  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Company of Heroes had a demo. It didnt run very well. Relic patched the demo so people could accurately judge the game. As a result, COH has sold very well indeed (of course not all is down to the demo but it helped)

    Demos are more important than a lot of developers think.

    Look at the heaps of cash Microsoft is making from XBLA, where every single title has a demo. Let someone try before they buy and not only do you get the blind purchasers who were 'day one' from the start, but also a lot of people on the fence who might just wait for the next game to come along.

    The_Scarab on
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I tend to not buy PC games unless I can check out a demo. For example, I still haven't played Bioshock because I'd rather play it on my PC and the demo wouldn't run. (I was not in the mood to do any special coaxing)

    Bama on
  • eternalbleternalbl Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Piracy is just a part of internet culture. Like virtual potheads, they just have different ideals than the rest of society. To try to change their ways is just an exercise in frustration.

    eternalbl on
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  • StaedtlerStaedtler Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    eternalbl wrote: »
    Piracy is just a part of internet culture. Like virtual potheads, they just have different ideals than the rest of society. To try to change their ways is just an exercise in frustration.

    My experience is that most people under forty pirate stuff. There isn't a group of people who pirate and a separate group who buy things. Almost everyone does a bit of both.

    Staedtler on
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  • Dareth RamDareth Ram regular
    edited August 2008
    I think a more interesting question then 'why you do pirate,' is 'why don't you?' It seems fairly obvious people will pirate to avoid spending money.

    Personally, if I don't want to spend money, I'll just borrow the game from a friend. Its equally as damaging to the game industry, but I haven't done anything wrong.

    Dareth Ram on
  • JMC123JMC123 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Is it really hard to believe that some people just don't have the same moral values as everyone else?

    As in, dude pirates a game. Dude knows it's wrong, doesn't try to justify it in any way. Dude doesn't really care.

    JMC123 on
  • eternalbleternalbl Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Staedtler wrote: »
    eternalbl wrote: »
    Piracy is just a part of internet culture. Like virtual potheads, they just have different ideals than the rest of society. To try to change their ways is just an exercise in frustration.

    My experience is that most people under forty pirate stuff. There isn't a group of people who pirate and a separate group who buy things. Almost everyone does a bit of both.

    True enough, I'm mostly referring to diehards, like people who haven't paid for a game in years.

    eternalbl on
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  • BuhamutZeoBuhamutZeo Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Why do people pirate?

    A) They're poor
    B) They're cheap
    C) That can't see 5 minutes past their nose
    D) They honestly don't care

    All of the reasoning in the world won't convince these people otherwise. Telling them to "man up" if they can't afford it just makes them laugh.

    By the way:

    Were the mods really just tricked into allowing AND defending in a thread talking about why we should pirate? Really? Am I the only one seeing the irony/absurdity of this?

    Also, I have a near full-proof method to stop piracy if anyone is interested.

    BuhamutZeo on
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  • StaedtlerStaedtler Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    People seem to purchase instead of pirate when:

    1) The product is really good. I know someone who recently chose to buy (instead of pirate) the Batman animated series because "there are so few good western cartoons."

    2) Loyalty to the developer/publisher/whatever. I think this is the big one on these forums, and is really the "morality" option.

    3) The purchase is connected to some service or event. You can't pirate a theater experience, and your online options are often limited.

    4) It's easier. Money aside, it's usually easier to pirate than buy. When the opposite is true, it can be a motivator to buy. I don't have a credit card, I don't plan on getting one, and I simply don't buy things that require it.

    Staedtler on
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  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Were the mods really just tricked into allowing AND defending in a thread talking about why we should pirate? Really? Am I the only one seeing the irony/absurdity of this?

    PA's never frowned on threads discussing the motivations behind piracy (we had a big one not that long ago) or even the motivations behind digital rights management before. Certainly talking about these issues doesn't hurt the industry. If anything it gives devs an inside look into the issue.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • BuhamutZeoBuhamutZeo Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It's just after every piracy pin drop I see the mods jump all over, I find a thread like this rather ironic and amusing.

    BuhamutZeo on
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  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Has anyone ever done a study on where most pirates come from(or where most pirate games go)? I wonder how big of the pie the US has with it's high connectivity rate versus poorer or ignored countries that get raped with game prices.

    agoaj on
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  • TheGreat2ndTheGreat2nd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    BuhamutZeo wrote: »
    It's just after every piracy pin drop I see the mods jump all over, I find a thread like this rather ironic and amusing.

    I think the issue is that
    there is a difference between discussing how to pirate, and discussing why you pirate.

    TheGreat2nd on
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  • stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    People pirate because they can justify it to themselves to the point of having no guilt, and many live in areas where there is no criminal / civil repercussions or have very limited chances of being caught. The specifics are otherwise irrelevant. If you take away one 'justification', it is just human nature to come up with another one provided the perceived benefits outweigh the consequences.

    stigweard on
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I think a lot of people who pirate games started with pirating music and it just evolved from there; this would mean the arguments and justifications they have really aren't even meant for games in the first place, which is why they might seem illogical.

    Cervetus on
  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    BuhamutZeo wrote: »
    Also, I have a near full-proof method to stop piracy if anyone is interested.

    I'm really interested in knowing what this is. Steam and MMO games can already be pirated via the illegal magic of server emulation, so that doesn't count (unless you count out on missing out on a lot of the community aspects of it all). DRM doesn't work. All proprietary hardware is eventually reverse engineered. Unless you want to make all games free or stop selling them altogether...

    Frem on
  • StaedtlerStaedtler Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    If you had consequences massively disproportionate to the crime and were willing to sacrifice people's rights to get convictions, that would probably curb the practice significantly. Might also cause a revolution...

    Staedtler on
    Give me a hug, mofo
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Staedtler wrote: »
    If you had consequences massively disproportionate to the crime and were willing to sacrifice people's rights to get convictions, that would probably curb the practice significantly. Might also cause a revolution...

    *grin* well how's it worked for music?

    Ego on
    Erik
  • RoshinRoshin My backlog can be seen from space SwedenRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Speaking as a reformed pirate, then. Keep in mind that I'm an old git now and generally can't be arsed to bother with piracy anymore. My suggested solutions comes from someone who wants to be honest.

    Simplicity and availability.
    In a discussion on a forum somewhere, I see mention of some game I've never heard of, but sounds interesting. I do a quick search on a torrent site, the game pops up, I download it, and try it. If I genuinely like it and think it's worth the price, I will buy it. If I don't like it, it gets shitcanned. If I like it, but can't find an easy way to buy it (an old game maybe), then I might keep the pirated game.

    The solution for this are places like Steam and XBLA. They work roughly the same. If there's a demo, I'll download it. If there's no demo, I'll look at the movies and screenshots. If I genuinely like it and think it's worth the price, I will buy it. If I don't like it, it gets shitcanned.

    Fear.
    Some companies that shall go unmentioned (EA) slap doubtful security measures (SecuRom) on their products that can seriously fuck your system, if you're unlucky, and they can be very difficult to rid yourself of. In these cases, I sometimes buy the actual product and then download a pirated version. Yes, I trust the pirated versions more.

    The solution? Other than the above, I really don't know.

    Don't be a dick.
    Generally, if you're a nice guy/dev and treat your customers with respect, then you will see less piracy. If you're a dick and treat your customers like thieves, then many will decide that they might as well be thieves and nick your product. Admit to yourself that there will always be people who will pirate your game, no matter what, or else you'll go crazy.

    Roshin on
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  • RoshinRoshin My backlog can be seen from space SwedenRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    BigDes wrote: »
    An interesting thing to note is that in the EU at least, if you get done for pirating and they find out that you've pirated more than three things then legislation is coming into effect where the punishment is that if you are caught using the internet ever again, you go to prison.

    Which I feel is a bloody good incentive to to pay for the things I want to own.

    I've never heard anything of the sort and I seriously doubt they will put anyone in prison for say, receiving an email 10 years later.

    I call bollocks.

    Roshin on
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  • SilkyNumNutsSilkyNumNuts Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Caught...using the internet?

    Got any more info about that, because I can't see really being able to conduct life without any access to the internet at all.

    And yeah, most of my generation would be stripped of the internet were that the case...

    SilkyNumNuts on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    BuhamutZeo wrote: »
    Were the mods really just tricked into allowing AND defending in a thread talking about why we should pirate? Really? Am I the only one seeing the irony/absurdity of this?

    yes, because there isn't any. We weren't tricked into shit, and this isn't a thread about why people should pirate. It's a discussion of piracy.
    It's just after every piracy pin drop I see the mods jump all over, I find a thread like this rather ironic and amusing.

    protip: you don't know what that word means

    Tube on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    For those who have reading comprehension issues the Rules thread is very clear:
    2 ) Piracy and emulation :

    * These may still be discussed as news issues, but any passing mention to methods, techniques or resources is strictly not allowed. Any violation of the above rule is grounds for immediate banning. Just don't do it.

    You can talk all you want about piracy, why you did it, why you stopped. But you cant discuss how or link to pirate bays and stuff.

    I'd say a good way to stop piracy would be to make buying the game the same process. Steam is essentially like that. I cant imagine there are people to lazy to go out to a store to buy a physical copy or order it online but downloading it direct to your PC is a good way to go. In fact, nearly every PC game is digitally distributed these days, Steam, d2d, impulse etc.

    The_Scarab on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    I'd say a good way to stop piracy would be to make buying the game the same process. Steam is essentially like that. I cant imagine there are people to lazy to go out to a store to buy a physical copy or order it online but downloading it direct to your PC is a good way to go. In fact, nearly every PC game is digitally distributed these days, Steam, d2d, impulse etc.

    The digital distribution services make impulse buying ridiculously easy (for me at least). I almost never go to a store and buy a (PC) game anymore because I generally save games for last on my trips and by then I've had enough time to convince myself I really don't want to spend the money. Steam is right in front of me and its collection is at least as large if not larger than local stores (except for Best Buy and Gamestop, but I despise both places and they aren't conveniently located for me regardless). It helps that it seems to be pretty competitive on the price front with local stores and even online at sites such as Amazon.

    Speaking of D2D, I keep hearing conflicting information about it. Hell, at first I thought it was EA's digital distribution service (I am right in thinking that isn't the case..right?). How easy is it to backup stuff you've bought through it? I've heard you're basically downloading what amounts to a disc image you can burn to CD/DVD for safe keeping. Is that the case? Is there anything on there that isn't on Steam, already, anyway? Should I shut up an ask these on a D2D forum somewhere? :)

    RBach on
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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey, you got slashdotted. Good job.

    AbsoluteZero on
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  • StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I've had my fill of piracy. Daedalus nailed it on the head, you just don't really do anything with that whole stash of games, not to mention you have a guilt trip afterwards.

    Funny thing is, it was my mother who told me to download this program to get music files, and it snowballed from there. Later I grew up and threw all the pirated stuff to go clean and just buy what I want. I kept Sanitarium though, but that's a different cookie, the devs were fucked over by the publisher. Good case for demos too, as I had my $50 in hand and went to a game shop, but I couldn't get the damn game. A shame because I love the game. I hope Good Old Games will release this gem, though it is unlikely.

    I plan my purchases out, even though I'm nearing my BA and I still haven't got a job job (I do some simple stuff on the side, it does not pay well, but every bit counts), and I have no need to pirate games. For that I have a golden rule: If I can walk into a local game shop and buy the game (more on that in a moment), I will not even highlight the torrent. It's stupid, I want to support the industry, and the games aren't that expensive anyway. Which reminds me that I need to grab Puzzle Quest.

    Now, I have another rule: Japan can go to hell. I like their stuff, I really do, but the amount of hoop-jumping is a little too much for my constrained wallet. Touhou games for example. Same goes with anime until Japan figures out that making us wait for God knows how many years is hurting them. I also get OSTs, though I have friends that help me import and I'm a proud owner of four soundtracks, all of them previously downloaded. When I get a steady income, I'll ramp this one up to make up for the, let's not kid ourselves, piracy.

    I have one other problem and that is I can't figure out how to use credit cards over the Internet. Admittedly, I haven't really tried, since I flush my account rather fast, and the amounts there aren't even that big anyway. That, and I have a Maestro card. Never get a Maestro card, EVER. This is why I mentioned Puzzle Quest, I thought it would be offered as a digital download (yes Tube, I know), but since it's retail now I have no excuse. In case you're wondering, that translates to... current rates... $20. I'd grab it earlier, but I couldn't find it. We also get Bionic Commando Rearmed retail for the same price, good value.

    Note: I don't actually pirate digital downloads (not anymore since then), but I was curious about Puzzle Quest and its 'rampant cheating.' And no, I did not pirate Rearmed, for two reasons: NO, and my computer is a piece of shit, I'd just shelve it for later.

    And I'm trying to buy anime DVD's that get released over here. Anime-Gate is doing a lot of good in that regard. Recently, I've been trying to complete the Samurai Champloo collection, get more Haibane Renmei, and finally buy a Shana DVD, which I'm probably going to do soon.

    Once you realize you don't actually need all this stuff, it gets much, much easier to wait.

    Strifer on
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  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Strifer wrote: »
    I also get OSTs, though I have friends that help me import and I'm a proud owner of four soundtracks, all of them previously downloaded. When I get a steady income, I'll ramp this one up to make up for the, let's not kid ourselves, piracy.

    Well I'm not absolutely sure on this, but if an artistic work is only made available in Japan it might only have a copyright in Japan, which would make downloading its torrent anywhere else in the world legal.

    Cervetus on
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Strifer wrote: »
    Now, I have another rule: Japan can go to hell. I like their stuff, I really do, but the amount of hoop-jumping is a little too much for my constrained wallet. Touhou games for example. Same goes with anime until Japan figures out that making us wait for God knows how many years is hurting them.

    Touhou games are made by one guy so I doubt he's too concerned with catering to the international market (which is a royal pain in the ass for one guy to deal with), and Japan isn't at fault for how anime is distributed in other countries. I doubt they're losing much money over it, either... Geneon is gone and ADV is in some deep shit. Anime in America isn't exactly a lucrative market right now unless you've got a massive hit.
    Cervetus wrote: »
    Strifer wrote: »
    I also get OSTs, though I have friends that help me import and I'm a proud owner of four soundtracks, all of them previously downloaded. When I get a steady income, I'll ramp this one up to make up for the, let's not kid ourselves, piracy.

    Well I'm not absolutely sure on this, but if an artistic work is only made available in Japan it might only have a copyright in Japan, which would make downloading its torrent anywhere else in the world legal.
    Nope, we recognize Japanese copyrights and they recognize ours.

    sethsez on
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Cervetus wrote: »
    Strifer wrote: »
    I also get OSTs, though I have friends that help me import and I'm a proud owner of four soundtracks, all of them previously downloaded. When I get a steady income, I'll ramp this one up to make up for the, let's not kid ourselves, piracy.

    Well I'm not absolutely sure on this, but if an artistic work is only made available in Japan it might only have a copyright in Japan, which would make downloading its torrent anywhere else in the world legal.

    The Berne Convention is an international agreement regarding copyright that basically every country in the world is part of.

    khain on
  • StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    khain wrote: »
    Cervetus wrote: »
    Strifer wrote: »
    I also get OSTs, though I have friends that help me import and I'm a proud owner of four soundtracks, all of them previously downloaded. When I get a steady income, I'll ramp this one up to make up for the, let's not kid ourselves, piracy.

    Well I'm not absolutely sure on this, but if an artistic work is only made available in Japan it might only have a copyright in Japan, which would make downloading its torrent anywhere else in the world legal.

    The Berne Convention is an international agreement regarding copyright that basically every country in the world is part of.

    Regardless, somebody sells stuff and I want it. I can't ask for leeway, but I hope they will understand where I'm coming from. I'll be a good repeat customer, I promise!

    Strifer on
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  • KhaczorKhaczor Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well if we are talking about video games. I have only pirated a handful of times games like Black and White 2 and Company of Heroes. This was definitely me demoing the game. I'm glad I pirated first because most of the time I find that paying for these certain games is not worth it and I delete the game from the computer pretty quickly. The official demo don't do much for me since it doesn't give you the whole shebang of what a game is capable off and its failures also.

    The main selling point for me in PC games is multiplayer anyway. Pirating games doesn't allow me that option so there isn't even a reason for me to pirate the games I DO want.

    Khaczor on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Why don't they just make it so where needing a serial key is needed to play the game at all, offline or online?

    Sure they can be cracked but that's about all I think is bypassable with keys.

    SkutSkut on
  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    While I suppose the "stealing a car/game off the shelf" analogy gets shouted down because COPYRIGHT IS NOT STEALING STOP SAYING IT'S STEALING NOBODY GETS HURT or whatever, how about taking a ride on a bus or train without paying for it? You're not necessarily denying anyone else their seat (unless it's busy, but let's assume it's not) and you're getting a free journey for it too!

    Still wrong though.

    darleysam on
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  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    Why don't they just make it so where needing a serial key is needed to play the game at all, offline or online?

    Sure they can be cracked but that's about all I think is bypassable with keys.

    Most games use to require a CD key, and they still might, but its useless for stopping offline play as you don't have a way to make sure that a single key isn't being used by multiple people at the same time.

    khain on
  • KhaczorKhaczor Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    While I suppose the "stealing a car/game off the shelf" analogy gets shouted down because COPYRIGHT IS NOT STEALING STOP SAYING IT'S STEALING NOBODY GETS HURT or whatever, how about taking a ride on a bus or train without paying for it? You're not necessarily denying anyone else their seat (unless it's busy, but let's assume it's not) and you're getting a free journey for it too!

    Still wrong though.

    Your taking the analogy the wrong way. Think of copyrighting and pirating as

    "Lets say your neighbor owns a car you want. You own a machine that can make an exact copy of the car. You make the copy of the car with your machine and drive away with it."

    That is more inline of how copyright works. You aren't hurting the neighbor or the creators of the vehicle in any way since you had the capability of always duplicating it.

    Khaczor on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey, you got slashdotted. Good job.

    heh,
    Error establishing a database connection

    LewieP on
  • freakish lightfreakish light butterdick jones and his heavenly asshole machineRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    khain wrote: »
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    Why don't they just make it so where needing a serial key is needed to play the game at all, offline or online?

    Sure they can be cracked but that's about all I think is bypassable with keys.

    Most games use to require a CD key, and they still might, but its useless for stopping offline play as you don't have a way to make sure that a single key isn't being used by multiple people at the same time.

    Which Bioshock attempted to solve with their horrible, horrible system, and we all know how that turned out.

    freakish light on
  • DVGDVG No. 1 Honor Student Nether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Way late to the thread, but I think an important distinction between console games and PC games is there really isn't a good way to Rent PC games the way you can console games. For those short games that you're only moderately interested in, you can't just drop $5 to play it over a weekend in lieu of dropping $50 on owning it forever.

    Then of course there are the loads of people who just download anything they see and never, ever buy anything, including stuff they'd never be interested in to begin with, and most likely won't play it anyway.

    DVG on
    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    While I suppose the "stealing a car/game off the shelf" analogy gets shouted down because COPYRIGHT IS NOT STEALING STOP SAYING IT'S STEALING NOBODY GETS HURT or whatever, how about taking a ride on a bus or train without paying for it? You're not necessarily denying anyone else their seat (unless it's busy, but let's assume it's not) and you're getting a free journey for it too!

    Still wrong though.
    Nobody is saying that copyright infringement doesn't hurt anybody (well, some are but they're dumb). What people are saying is that copyright infringement is wrong in its own way, separate from how theft is wrong, and that it's an important distinction to make when discussing why people pirate and what can be done to curb it as much as possible.

    Basically, it's a reaction to people screaming "it's theft, you're thieves, stop your thievery" and refusing to discuss the issue beyond that. It's unproductive, uninteresting and inaccurate. It's possible to have intelligent discussions about potentially immoral and illegal activities (their causes, their ramifications, potential solutions, etc) without condoning them, but it's hard when the misguided morality brigade sweeps in typing "IT'S THEFT CASE CLOSED EVERYONE SHUT UP NOW" until their fingers bleed.

    sethsez on
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