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Insane game dev asks pirates to email him

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Posts

  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The law itself is convoluted. Piracy is copyright infringement, not theft. That doesn't make it legal or right or any less serious (copyright infringement often comes with stiffer penalties than petty theft). Is it arguing semantics? Yes, but that's how the law works. :)

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Your argument about stealing is so convoluted. Taking something you haven't paid for is theft. The circumstances don't matter

    Copying something you haven't paid for and that still has valid copyright on it is called copyright infringement, not theft. Theft by definition has to deprive the owner of the original item.

    It's important to define the difference, because whenever discussions of Intellectual Property laws come in, people always try to drag in the "but it's stealing argument". Well no, no it's not, and that just muddies the waters further. Intellectual Property is NOT the same as physical property, nor should it be treated in the same manner. IP has limits and regulations associated with it that do not apply to physical property.

    subedii on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    If you couldn't pirate it, you would either simply not have it or you would make some kind of sacrifice so you have the money to buy it. I repeat, the "I can't afford games so I pirate them" excuse is bunk.

    Like I said earlier, I rode on that excuse for years. I used that excuse after buying a $1600 gaming computer. Eventually I grew the fuck up and stopped lying to myself.

    The thing about piracy is that you end up losing respect for games. Have you ever had a time when you bought three or four games out of the bargain bin at once? Good games, that you just missed the first time around? Odds are, you ended up not really playing any of them; you'd start one, play for fifteen minutes, switch to another one, and so forth, in some kind of ADD fit.

    Constant piracy is basically like that all the time. Quitting was one of the best things I'd ever done.

    Daedalus on
  • HedwirezHedwirez Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Good point, forgot about that. Don't have a wii but still torn between buying streets of rage 2 on my xbox or spending a bit more and getting a working megadrive

    Hedwirez on
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I hope they have Freespace 2.

    This is actually a game you can get free, legally. The EULA allows the game to be shared freely.

    I can't imagine the lawyer who wrote it up got much work since.

    sethsez on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I hope they have Freespace 2.

    This is actually a game you can get free, legally. The EULA allows the game to be shared freely.

    I can't imagine the lawyer who wrote it up got much work since.

    It's weird, actually; the EULA in the manual is different from the one in the installer, which is itself different from the one that gets put on the hard disk.

    Daedalus on
  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    If you couldn't pirate it, you would either simply not have it or you would make some kind of sacrifice so you have the money to buy it. I repeat, the "I can't afford games so I pirate them" excuse is bunk.

    Like I said earlier, I rode on that excuse for years. I used that excuse after buying a $1600 gaming computer. Eventually I grew the fuck up and stopped lying to myself.

    The thing about piracy is that you end up losing respect for games.

    I would think a that the thing about piracy is that you start with no respect for games.

    BlueBlue on
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  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I hope they have Freespace 2.

    This is actually a game you can get free, legally. The EULA allows the game to be shared freely.

    I can't imagine the lawyer who wrote it up got much work since.

    Well first off, the EULA says that you can share it "with friends", not freely, certainly not with everyone over the entire internet.

    Secondly, that was deliberate. I can't remember the details but the reason they made that version of the EULA was because they were trying to push through some changes on how EULA's were done in the EU and set some sort of legal precedents. IIRC the EULA was different in the US (although I could be wrong on that alst part).

    subedii on
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited August 2008
    subedii wrote: »
    sethsez wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I hope they have Freespace 2.

    This is actually a game you can get free, legally. The EULA allows the game to be shared freely.

    I can't imagine the lawyer who wrote it up got much work since.

    Well first off, the EULA says that you can share it "with friends", not freely, certainly not with everyone over the entire internet.

    Secondly, that was deliberate. I can't remember the details but the reason they made that version of the EULA was because they were trying to push through some changes on how EULA's were done in the EU and set some sort of legal precedents. IIRC the EULA was different in the US (although I could be wrong on that alst part).

    "Friends" has no real legal meaning in this context. I understand the intent, but that's the tricky thing about legalese... a contract is only as meaningful as the language contained within, and without defining "friend" anybody can claim to be anybody else's friend and be in the clear.

    I'm also fairly certain that the US version contains the same language.

    sethsez on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Have you ever had a time when you bought three or four games out of the bargain bin at once? Good games, that you just missed the first time around? Odds are, you ended up not really playing any of them; you'd start one, play for fifteen minutes, switch to another one, and so forth, in some kind of ADD fit.

    Yes, a million times yes! I swear that's where 90% of my backlog has come from and it's a horrible, horrible trap. I can't even run some of them anymore (Icewind Dale for example). The sad thing is that it doesn't even have to be 3 or 4 games at once--one is enough if events conspire to keep me away long enough to forget about/move on to other games.

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited August 2008
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    If you couldn't pirate it, you would either simply not have it or you would make some kind of sacrifice so you have the money to buy it. I repeat, the "I can't afford games so I pirate them" excuse is bunk.

    Like I said earlier, I rode on that excuse for years. I used that excuse after buying a $1600 gaming computer. Eventually I grew the fuck up and stopped lying to myself.

    The thing about piracy is that you end up losing respect for games.

    I would think a that the thing about piracy is that you start with no respect for games.

    Agreed... it's just unfortunate when publishers also have no respect for the games they're releasing. Starforce and SecuROM are blights on PC gaming, fucking over people who want to support the developers while simultaneously doing nothing to stop the actual pirates. I understand the purpose behind DRM, and the logic supporting it, but as it currently exists being a paying customer means you're getting spat on by the very industry you're supporting. Buying Mass Effect for PC was one of the dumber things I've done recently... great game, but the DRM is vicious.

    None of this applies to console games, of course.

    sethsez on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    If you couldn't pirate it, you would either simply not have it or you would make some kind of sacrifice so you have the money to buy it. I repeat, the "I can't afford games so I pirate them" excuse is bunk.

    Like I said earlier, I rode on that excuse for years. I used that excuse after buying a $1600 gaming computer. Eventually I grew the fuck up and stopped lying to myself.

    The thing about piracy is that you end up losing respect for games.

    I would think a that the thing about piracy is that you start with no respect for games.

    Nah, nobody starts off like that, or they wouldn't bother in the first place. It's more of a "hey, I don't have a job and am still in high school, but I'd really like [insert game here]." and eventually finding out how to get it. And hey, it's just this one time and you don't have any money anyway, right? I mean, you'll buy it once you get paid, or get allowance money, or whatever.

    And then you get money, but something else has come up that you want instead. And so forth.

    And eventually you just don't care anymore.

    Daedalus on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    sethsez wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I hope they have Freespace 2.

    This is actually a game you can get free, legally. The EULA allows the game to be shared freely.

    I can't imagine the lawyer who wrote it up got much work since.

    Well first off, the EULA says that you can share it "with friends", not freely, certainly not with everyone over the entire internet.

    Secondly, that was deliberate. I can't remember the details but the reason they made that version of the EULA was because they were trying to push through some changes on how EULA's were done in the EU and set some sort of legal precedents. IIRC the EULA was different in the US (although I could be wrong on that alst part).

    "Friends" has no real legal meaning in this context. I understand the intent, but that's the tricky thing about legalese... a contract is only as meaningful as the language contained within, and without defining "friend" anybody can claim to be anybody else's friend and be in the clear.

    It's pretty difficult to argue from a legal standpoint that you're friends with the entire internet.

    I guess it's pretty moot by this stage anyway.

    subedii on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    I used to pirate most stuff when I was in my teens.

    Nowadays I just can't bother. Buying stuff on Steam lets me download it just as fast (if not faster) with my Phat Swedish Broadband Penis. And I get automatic updates and stuff.

    Overall I buy less games now than I pirated when younger. But I also realised that tons of games are crap, and thanks to PA recommendations I can now stick to buying just the good stuff.

    A lot of stuff having a large multiplayer component is extra incentive, what with needing legit copies to play on proper servers.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Have you ever actually had problems with Starforce or SecuROM, or are you just basing your hatred of them on what you've heard on the internet?

    Also, I'm pretty sure Starforce and SecuROM are effective. Allegedly Starforce took over a year to be cracked for Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

    And the idea that because DRM screws gamers over, they have a reason to pirate is retarded. If you don't like the DRM, don't buy the game. But you don't have a 'right' to that game. You don't deserve it.

    P10 on
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  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited August 2008
    subedii wrote: »
    sethsez wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    sethsez wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I hope they have Freespace 2.

    This is actually a game you can get free, legally. The EULA allows the game to be shared freely.

    I can't imagine the lawyer who wrote it up got much work since.

    Well first off, the EULA says that you can share it "with friends", not freely, certainly not with everyone over the entire internet.

    Secondly, that was deliberate. I can't remember the details but the reason they made that version of the EULA was because they were trying to push through some changes on how EULA's were done in the EU and set some sort of legal precedents. IIRC the EULA was different in the US (although I could be wrong on that alst part).

    "Friends" has no real legal meaning in this context. I understand the intent, but that's the tricky thing about legalese... a contract is only as meaningful as the language contained within, and without defining "friend" anybody can claim to be anybody else's friend and be in the clear.

    It's pretty difficult to argue from a legal standpoint that you're friends with the entire internet.

    I guess it's pretty moot by this stage anyway.

    Without any legal definition of what "friend" means it's actually not a hard position to argue from at all, which is why it's such a terrible EULA. It was a ballsy move but not a particularly well thought out one.

    sethsez on
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Have you ever actually had problems with Starforce or SecuROM, or are you just basing your hatred of them on what you've heard on the internet?
    Come on, I even said I had on the previous page. SecuROM (Mass Effect's weapon of choice) made it impossible for me to delete executables from my machine without stopping Explorer first via Killbox (and god help me if I ever want to delete Killbox). That's absolutely unacceptable to me.
    Also, I'm pretty sure Starforce and SecuROM are effective. Allegedly Starforce took over a year to be cracked for Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
    They're only effective for a week at most these days. Pirates have learned how to get past them. Granted, that first week is where many sales happen, but I can't imagine most pirates don't just wait that week.

    sethsez on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Have you ever actually had problems with Starforce or SecuROM, or are you just basing your hatred of them on what you've heard on the internet?

    Also, I'm pretty sure Starforce and SecuROM are effective. Allegedly Starforce took over a year to be cracked for Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

    Starforce reduced my CD-ROM drive's read and write speeds to the absolute minimum they could go, even when not playing the game that used it.

    And while it took a while for a real, full-fledged crack to come out for the very first Starforce games, workarounds existed that let you pirate it, albeit while still installing Starforce on your computer, right from release day.

    Daedalus on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    sethsez wrote: »
    Have you ever actually had problems with Starforce or SecuROM, or are you just basing your hatred of them on what you've heard on the internet?
    Come on, I even said I had on the previous page. SecuROM (Mass Effect's weapon of choice) made it impossible for me to delete executables from my machine without stopping Explorer first via Killbox (and god help me if I ever want to delete Killbox). That's absolutely unacceptable to me.
    Also, I'm pretty sure Starforce and SecuROM are effective. Allegedly Starforce took over a year to be cracked for Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
    They're only effective for a week at most these days. Pirates have learned how to get past them.
    Echo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Oh, and starforce doesn't do shit to your computer. theamount of community backlash towards it has generated this imaginary perceived image of it as some PC killer.

    Please to be reading my post.

    Und mine

    subedii on
  • steve-o99steve-o99 Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    If you couldn't pirate it, you would either simply not have it or you would make some kind of sacrifice so you have the money to buy it. I repeat, the "I can't afford games so I pirate them" excuse is bunk.

    Like I said earlier, I rode on that excuse for years. I used that excuse after buying a $1600 gaming computer. Eventually I grew the fuck up and stopped lying to myself.

    The thing about piracy is that you end up losing respect for games.

    I would think a that the thing about piracy is that you start with no respect for games.

    Nah, nobody starts off like that, or they wouldn't bother in the first place. It's more of a "hey, I don't have a job and am still in high school, but I'd really like [insert game here]." and eventually finding out how to get it. And hey, it's just this one time and you don't have any money anyway, right? I mean, you'll buy it once you get paid, or get allowance money, or whatever.

    And then you get money, but something else has come up that you want instead. And so forth.

    And eventually you just don't care anymore.

    close, but sometimes its "hey, I just graduated, I'm working full time and saving 90% for school, and I still want to play games" or "hey, I'm in college, I have literally ZERO entertainment budget, and still want to play games"

    Another interesting tidbit here is that pirates sometimes still buy things. I've pirated games, and also spent a regrettable amount of money on purchasing games. You cannot pirate computer hardware and game consoles, and to the pirate, that is were the real expense is. I've pirated music, and also bought plenty of music. I have nothing to say about people that are buried in money to spend on everything, like $1600 gaming machines, and still pirate stuff, because I have no experience with that. I would say however that there are plenty of pirates that scrape together medium-graphics machines on newegg clearances and the like and pirate games because they really can't afford them.

    Basically you say the justification "I pirate games because I cannot pay for them" is shit
    I say your "Well I'm 28, make $70,000 a year and spend $200 on games a month, why can't you too" moral stand is shit to.

    steve-o99 on
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  • RichardTauberRichardTauber Kvlt Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    Buying stuff on Steam lets me download it just as fast (if not faster) with my Phat Swedish Broadband Penis.

    Which is available to all swedes!*

    *not

    RichardTauber on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    And while it took a while for a real, full-fledged crack to come out for the very first Starforce games, workarounds existed that let you pirate it, albeit while still installing Starforce on your computer, right from release day.

    Yep. Something with physically disconnecting CD/DVD readers.

    Which I had to do to make my legally purchased Starforce game work in the first place.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    And the idea that because DRM screws gamers over, they have a reason to pirate is retarded. If you don't like the DRM, don't buy the game. But you don't have a 'right' to that game. You don't deserve it.

    If I bought the game you better BELIEVE I have the "right" to play it. So yes, I will pirate it when the copy protection screws up yet again and refuses to let me play.

    subedii on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Okay, even if Starforce kills your PC and shits on your bed, you know how you can get around it?
    Not buying the game.

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    steve-o99 wrote: »
    I say your "Well I'm 28, make $70,000 a year and spend $200 on games a month, why can't you too" moral stand is shit to.

    I'm in college right now, I can get a steady job maybe three months out of a year, and spend perhaps $60 on games each month, but usually less.

    Take your excuses and shove them up your ass.

    Daedalus on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    subedii wrote: »
    And the idea that because DRM screws gamers over, they have a reason to pirate is retarded. If you don't like the DRM, don't buy the game. But you don't have a 'right' to that game. You don't deserve it.

    If I bought the game you better BELIEVE I have the "right" to play it. So yes, I will pirate it when the copy protection screws up yet again and refuses to let me play.
    But you don't deserve to play a game you won't buy because of the DRM. If you bought the game, and the DRM is fucking up and making it impossible for you to play, then yes, you should be pissed, and you should raise a huge stink for the company until they fix it and make it so you can play.

    But if you didn't buy the game, you don't have the right to play it.

    P10 on
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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    If you couldn't pirate it, you would either simply not have it or you would make some kind of sacrifice so you have the money to buy it. I repeat, the "I can't afford games so I pirate them" excuse is bunk.

    Like I said earlier, I rode on that excuse for years. I used that excuse after buying a $1600 gaming computer. Eventually I grew the fuck up and stopped lying to myself.

    The thing about piracy is that you end up losing respect for games.

    I would think a that the thing about piracy is that you start with no respect for games.

    Nah, nobody starts off like that, or they wouldn't bother in the first place. It's more of a "hey, I don't have a job and am still in high school, but I'd really like [insert game here]." and eventually finding out how to get it. And hey, it's just this one time and you don't have any money anyway, right? I mean, you'll buy it once you get paid, or get allowance money, or whatever.

    And then you get money, but something else has come up that you want instead. And so forth.

    And eventually you just don't care anymore.

    You can enjoy something without respecting it. Piracy is a crime that can be committed with near to no chance of being caught. So, for what reasons would you not just take your games for free? Either you're like tube and get a boner from upholding the Laws of Society, or you want people to be paid for making games you like. I think you'll find that most pirates just don't give a shit.

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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Okay, even if Starforce kills your PC and shits on your bed, you know how you can get around it?
    Not buying the game.
    or I can buy it, giving the developers money for a product I want, then download the readily-available crack.

    Daedalus on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Okay, even if Starforce kills your PC and shits on your bed, you know how you can get around it?
    Not buying the game.

    No publisher has ever (to my knowledge) put on the game box that the game has Starforce. Read the thread, this has already been addressed and debunked.

    LewieP on
  • sethsezsethsez Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Okay, even if Starforce kills your PC and shits on your bed, you know how you can get around it?
    Not buying the game.

    Which is exactly what I said earlier.

    Of course, I can't imagine publishers are any more pleased with this possibility than they are with people pirating their games, which is why they should ditch the fucking invasive DRM already so those of us who WANT to give them money aren't being punished for it.

    Nobody is saying "DRM means pirating is okay." We're saying "DRM is making life harder for legitimate buyers while not affecting pirates in the least." The only people getting punished are the very people keeping the PC gaming industry afloat!

    sethsez on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Okay, even if Starforce kills your PC and shits on your bed, you know how you can get around it?
    Not buying the game.

    What the heck is your problem? They didn't frigging advertise on the box that "Yes this game installs crapware that forces ring 0 access and will force you to reformat." Nowhere on the box will you see "I'm Starforce, and I approve this copy protection measure!"

    I can't avoid it if I don't know it's there. I install the game, find out it IS there, then I'm forced to pirate it just to be able to play my purchase. THAT. IS. STUPID.

    subedii on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    When there's a huge list that warns you about games with Starforce, don't you think there might be some problems with Starforce?

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • darleysamdarleysam UKRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I find piracy particularly silly in that pretty much any game (maybe excluding the Halos and GTAs of the world) will sooner or later cost basically fuck all to buy. No one is asking you to drop full price on a game if you're not sure if you'll like it. Be a grown up and wait until it's in the bargain bin. You can buy some of the best games ever made for ten dollars.

    Particularly PC games which always seem to launch cheaper than the console equivalent, and halve in price after just a few weeks.


    Hey guys there's a TV that I want to get but I don't know if it'll work well with my 360 and stuff, think I should just take it?

    darleysam on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    Hey guys there's a TV that I want to get but I don't know if it'll work well with my 360 and stuff, think I should just take it?

    treating piracy as the same thing as physical theft just makes pirates laugh at you.

    It's a different thing, despicable for different reasons.

    Daedalus on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    You can probably find a list of all the games with Starforce on the internet.
    But sure, they should definitely let the consumer know what sort of DRM they have before they purchase it.

    If you buy a game, and you install cracks on it, that''s pretty different from say, pirating a game and saying 'fuck you' to the hardworking developers.

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Some of us really can't afford games, you know.

    For the last couple months, I've floated at $10-30 dollars in my bank account after expenses. Thats gotten as low at $2-3 dollars. Yes, I do have a nice computer. One I built a year and a half ago, when I had a nice job, and regularly bought games(I even bought games that I've still never played).

    Situations change. I buy when I can afford it. I don't buy when I can't. Whatever anyone thinks, when I can't afford something, they really wouldn't get my money anyways. Its a win for me and a tie for them. I'm not talking moral, just that I would basically be stupid if I didn't do it in that case.

    And Cliff, I wanted to see if Democracy got any funner after the demo. It did not.

    Raslin on
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  • steve-o99steve-o99 Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Okay, even if Starforce kills your PC and shits on your bed, you know how you can get around it?
    Not buying the game.

    So, your attitude is that if companies make products suck, and they could be fixed, but the company wouldn't like that, you should just twiddle your thumbs instead. IN THE DRM CASES, piracy can be the equivalence of voting with your wallet, aka, not buying the game.

    "Hey dev, I really wanted your _____, but you really fucked it up, so I'm not going to give you any money for it, whether I end up getting it or not. Hopefully you'll realize that this is a problem for you and fix it on your end, making the gaming industry better for everyone."

    steve-o99 on
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    The_Scarab wrote:
    seriously im worried. these are truly the end of days. duke nukem forever is coming out, and the best nintendo ds game on the horizon is a sonic the hedgehog rpg by bioware.
    Brawl: 4983-4625-3928
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Hey guys there's a TV that I want to get but I don't know if it'll work well with my 360 and stuff, think I should just take it?

    treating piracy as the same thing as physical theft just makes pirates laugh at you.

    It's a different thing, despicable for different reasons.

    "You wouldn't steal a car!"

    No, cars are kinda heavy to fit in my pocket. Now, using a Star Trek replicator to make a perfect replica, leaving the original car where I found it? That's different.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Also, every now and again a publisher deserves to have their game pirated.

    LewieP on
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I would say people are weary about spending money on a game when they do not have any guarantee that they will get the same utility out of it as some other product (or combination of products) for the same price. ESPECIALLY when said games are pricey.

    AbsoluteZero on
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