TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
It really depends on what kind of scenario. Zombies? I'd probably sit tight, maybe try to get some supplies from the local grocer if it's not too late. After a few days, when everything around me has been well covered in zombies, I'll start hopping rooftops (yay city) in search of supplies.
Other than that, I guess just fatten up the cats on the last of the kibble and hope the BBQ sauce holds out.
If I wasn't too badly effected I would laugh at all those worse off than me because I'm a bastard.
If I was on of those who was badly effected I would cry myself to sleep at night while asking the question "why is everyone laughing at me? the bastards?"
It all depends if it's a slow crash or a fast crash. An economic collapse can happen seemingly overnight which would literally cause everything to grind to a halt.
I hear a lot of people mention travelling to these far off remote communities to start a farm.
First, good luck travelling farther than the distance a car or truck can get on a tank of gas, unless you're carrying extra. Everyone will be filling vehicles and gerry cans. Fuel stations will have "no gas" signs within days, if not sooner. Someone metioned he heard motorcycles get good mileage. They sure do, as long as you can get gas.
Second, have you ever grown a vegetable in your life? Do you know how to can your own food? Do you know how to store seeds for next season? Can you smoke the meat of a deer you shot? Can you shoot? Do you know how to clean a wild animal carcass? Do you have the physical ability to cut firewood by hand if your chainsaw runs out of fuel, bar oil or if your chain breaks? How do you move your firewood from where you cut it to where you need it? Can you lead a team of oxen? Where do you get your chickens? Cows? Pigs? What plants are safe to eat in the area you're moving to?
etc etc
People would be simply unprepared for this kind of life.
/glass half-full
Um. My family's farm is about half a tank of petrol away. And as for all of the above, yes, or a member of my family can. And we aren't even crazy survivalists. It's just basic living on a farm stuff. I mean, chopping wood when you don't have a chainsaw? Seriously? I can think of at least three ways off the top of my head - two-handed axe, saw or even just wooden or stone wedge and a sledge hammer. As for transporting it - a wheel barrow? Are these seriously problems for people? Sure, there would be difficulties and you'd have to make do without some stuff. You may even have to reinvent the wheel so to speak sometimes and it's going to involve hard work just doing the basics. But survival basics are, well, basic. They're hard work, but hardly complicated.
I think my only major issue would be acquiring a gun at short notice as my dad long ago turned in his shotguns and rifles. Although thinking about it, our farm manager almost certainly has one or two guns. It would also be nice to get some sort of electrical generator set up operating of wind and/or solar power but hardly essential. I wonder if it would be possible to repurpose the Aga to run of solid fuels rather than oil, although they have three large fireplaces and a stove that would suffice. Their water is already drawn directly off springs off the hillside, as are all the houses on the property, farm manager and tenants and it requires very little maintenance so that shouldn't be an issue.
Farming in the UK is a shitty industry to be in at the moment, but if there was a substantial collapse of the current economy (ie, no more oil), then farming would quickly revert to being a major earner. Without oil to fuel farm machinery or make fertiliser you're going to rely a lot more on the mass-manpower farming methods that were common up until the early 1900s. This means a resurgent in farm communities, which my parent's farm is already equipped to accommodate (most of the buildings date back to the original farming methods, so it's already built to accommodate the sort of size of workforce you'd require). We'd need to source some things like horses and find a blacksmith to make some farm equipment such as horse-drawn ploughs but all these tertiary professions would make a resurgence in this sort of situation anyway so it shouldn't be hard to find locals who once did it as more of a hobby first retooling existing machinery and then later forging original pieces.
This is assuming a situation where our current economic dependencies disappear but society and government remains essentially intact. Which is the most realistic SHTF scenario. If we're looking at total collapse of society in a short space of time, you've got a much bigger problem, even if you get to the farm, how do you go about defending it from marauders and such?
The most likely SHTF scenario up here in the Frozen North is an ice storm. That usually means "power outage in the middle of winter."
Nowhere near the long-term collapses that are being proposed here, which border on the tinfoil-hat type, but it's definitely something that can cause major problems if you're not prepared.
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The most likely SHTF scenario up here in the Frozen North is an ice storm. That usually means "power outage in the middle of winter."
Nowhere near the long-term collapses that are being proposed here, which border on the tinfoil-hat type, but it's definitely something that can cause major problems if you're not prepared.
Hell, a heavy snow can grind things to a temporary halt in Scotland. It's ok if it melts after a few days. But when you start reaching a week and realise you might not be able to get into town to do the weekly shop things start to get a bit cabin fever. Although if it comes down to it, you can always just drive the tractor to Tescos.
Don't even get me started on bloody Glasgow. An inch of snow and that stupid city just shuts up shop.
The most likely SHTF scenario up here in the Frozen North is an ice storm. That usually means "power outage in the middle of winter."
Nowhere near the long-term collapses that are being proposed here, which border on the tinfoil-hat type, but it's definitely something that can cause major problems if you're not prepared.
Hell, a heavy snow can grind things to a temporary halt in Scotland. It's ok if it melts after a few days. But when you start reaching a week and realise you might not be able to get into town to do the weekly shop things start to get a bit cabin fever. Although if it comes down to it, you can always just drive the tractor to Tescos.
Don't even get me started on bloody Glasgow. An inch of snow and that stupid city just shuts up shop.
Snow gets plowed pretty quickly, especially in Canada. I'm talking about a five-inch layer of solid ice covering fucking everything, breaking power lines, collapsing houses, and generally causing the aforementioned feces-fan contact. Serves as a good reminder of how dependant on infrastructure we are.
Oh yeah, I know what ice storms are. Point was just that countries less accustomed to inclement weather tend to be less capable of coping with even moderately unfavourable conditions. So, like, a snow fall that in most parts of Canada would just be business as usually can cause a catastrophic breakdown of society somewhere like Glasgow.
Oh yeah, I know what ice storms are. Point was just that countries less accustomed to inclement weather tend to be less capable of coping with even moderately unfavourable conditions. So, like, a snow fall that in most parts of Canada would just be business as usually can cause a catastrophic breakdown of society somewhere like Glasgow.
True enough, and it's fucking hilarious to watch said events happen.
It does present a good case for having a stockpile of supplies though. I've got enough for a 72-hour blackout comfortably, but beyond that I'd have to start rationing down.
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
you should see what happens when it snows in texas. it can be a 1/4" dusting of snow that will melt the same afternoon, and there will be a run on flashlights and tire chains.
Honestly, I'm happy again that I live in Finland. Low population, half of the citizens (the male half - women aren't being conscripted) trained in using weapons, surviving in wilderness without nothing but your tools, enough freshwater to never run out of it, safe and secure environments for all of the population (bomb shelters. In every single multi-story building), huge amounts of farms and people who know how to take care of them. The only problem would be the cruel, cruel winter...and a particular neighbor named Russia. Who knows what they would do in SHTF scenario.
Eh, if they invade, we'll just do what we have always done when Russia invades.
Hide in the forests, zerg rush them out of nowhere when they enter them, until they get sick of it and leave.
Hey we just hanged 'em. Much less witches died in England apparently. Though i'm pretty sure we didn't hang people like subway girl... she was probably the one making accusations!
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
It all depends if it's a slow crash or a fast crash. An economic collapse can happen seemingly overnight which would literally cause everything to grind to a halt.
I hear a lot of people mention travelling to these far off remote communities to start a farm.
First, good luck travelling farther than the distance a car or truck can get on a tank of gas, unless you're carrying extra. Everyone will be filling vehicles and gerry cans. Fuel stations will have "no gas" signs within days, if not sooner. Someone metioned he heard motorcycles get good mileage. They sure do, as long as you can get gas.
Second, have you ever grown a vegetable in your life? Do you know how to can your own food? Do you know how to store seeds for next season? Can you smoke the meat of a deer you shot? Can you shoot? Do you know how to clean a wild animal carcass? Do you have the physical ability to cut firewood by hand if your chainsaw runs out of fuel, bar oil or if your chain breaks? How do you move your firewood from where you cut it to where you need it? Can you lead a team of oxen? Where do you get your chickens? Cows? Pigs? What plants are safe to eat in the area you're moving to?
etc etc
People would be simply unprepared for this kind of life.
/glass half-full
Um. My family's farm is about half a tank of petrol away. And as for all of the above, yes, or a member of my family can. And we aren't even crazy survivalists. It's just basic living on a farm stuff. I mean, chopping wood when you don't have a chainsaw? Seriously? I can think of at least three ways off the top of my head - two-handed axe, saw or even just wooden or stone wedge and a sledge hammer. As for transporting it - a wheel barrow? Are these seriously problems for people? Sure, there would be difficulties and you'd have to make do without some stuff. You may even have to reinvent the wheel so to speak sometimes and it's going to involve hard work just doing the basics. But survival basics are, well, basic. They're hard work, but hardly complicated.
You're one of the rarities. Keep in mind that the US is built upon suburbia and the "family farm" is generally long, long drive from the city. Half the people here don't have the physical ability to do most of what I asked above but they all have plans to become the next Dick Proenneke without a realistic idea of what it will entail.
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SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
The most likely SHTF scenario up here in the Frozen North is an ice storm. That usually means "power outage in the middle of winter."
Nowhere near the long-term collapses that are being proposed here, which border on the tinfoil-hat type, but it's definitely something that can cause major problems if you're not prepared.
Hell, a heavy snow can grind things to a temporary halt in Scotland. It's ok if it melts after a few days. But when you start reaching a week and realise you might not be able to get into town to do the weekly shop things start to get a bit cabin fever. Although if it comes down to it, you can always just drive the tractor to Tescos.
Don't even get me started on bloody Glasgow. An inch of snow and that stupid city just shuts up shop.
Snow gets plowed pretty quickly, especially in Canada. I'm talking about a five-inch layer of solid ice covering fucking everything, breaking power lines, collapsing houses, and generally causing the aforementioned feces-fan contact. Serves as a good reminder of how dependant on infrastructure we are.
Also Finland sounds better than my country. Can you shoot guns and smoke mad weed while possibly chilling with your posse on the corner?
Weed is illegal here, I'm afraid. But as long as it's personal use, they don't really care...start to distribute it, and they clamp down on you. It's kind of like Netherlands, except a bit harsher.
And yeah, you can shoot guns, we have a crapload of them. There's two gunstores next to my house. Why, I just shot a gun other day!
You're one of the rarities. Keep in mind that the US is built upon suburbia and the "family farm" is generally long, long drive from the city. Half the people here don't have the physical ability to do most of what I asked above but they all have plans to become the next Dick Proenneke without a realistic idea of what it will entail.
Eh I guess. I suppose I just have faith in humanity's ability to adapt. Ask a suburbanite how to skin a rabbit now and they would probably just grimace at you and go stand at the other side of the bus stop. Wait until they're hungry enough and toss them a dead rabbit and see how quickly they clean it.
It might take them a while to get efficient at that sort of stuff but once they come to terms with the basic fact that rabbit has meat, me is hungry, me want meat, then they'll figure out some way to strip the skin off and clean out the guts.
Same goes for most stuff. There'd be some trial and error involved, the occasional vomiting fit while they work out which berries are and are not poisonous, that sort of thing but I'm sure they'll muddle through. So long as nature provides, man will exploit.
You also don't get a very controlled dosage, and probably the people around you who want the sheep for the million other things for which they are useful will not appreciate your sheep rampage.
The sheep devastator cometh in the night!
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited September 2008
Yes, that's why they're my sheep, I will raise them in the hills, and I will have many of them. I will convince my uncle to join me, and I will have his herding dogs. I get my dad to come along, and I'll have guns a plenty. I give mutton to people in exchange for keeping the sheepthiefninjas off my back, doing the butchery work I'm sure they'd rather not.
An honestly, poorly controlled and refined insulin is much better than no insulin at all.
Naturally, this only works if the end of the world is something less annoying than zombie hordes that eat every living thing they can reach. In that case, I'll need to find a chasm, and dig some ditches.
Considering I work about five blocks from the White House in a job that shuffles electrons and paper, my answer is probably going to be "die in the blast radius". Runner-up is "do my best to get my ass conscripted into the remnants of the federal government", or more likely, "fail to do so and starve inside a quarantine zone". I sure as hell don't have enough guns to set out for Virginia, so I suppose I would head a generally northwesterly direction and see how far I can make it before Deliverance sets in.
Basically, I'm toast.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited September 2008
Unless you can finagle your way into one of those sweet government bunkers.
In a SHTF war scenario, I'm guessing it's almost always an enemy force occupying - or attempting to occupy - friendly territory. In that case, I'd say there's little to nothing you can do. Try to live life as normally as possible, I guess. And, if possible, make friends with your enemies. I wouldn't want tanks rolling through my neighborhood without letting them know I don't want to make any trouble.
If it was some sort of deadly illness, I'd get out of the country ASAP (assuming it wasn't a world-wide pandemic). Of course I wouldn't want to infect anyone else, so if there was a way of figuring out if I had it or not I'd use it, then get the hell out of there. Transportation is going to get shut down real quick, and soon enough a quarantine will be in effect. If you haven't left by then, you're not leaving for a long time.
There are two likely zombie scenarios: complete chaos or established safe zones (or both at the same time). People might be scrambling for supplies and a way out of the city/country, and/or areas are being sealed off and designated "safe zones" are being established. If it's every man, woman and child for him or herself, I'm getting supplies, my family and heading to a less populated area. Otherwise, I'm going wherever the military has cleared out.
If the bombs are being dropped and the missiles are being launched, I'm headed to the nearest fallout shelter. I'm either going to make it, or I'm getting vaporized.
In a SHTF war scenario, I'm guessing it's almost always an enemy force occupying - or attempting to occupy - friendly territory. In that case, I'd say there's little to nothing you can do. Try to live life as normally as possible, I guess. And, if possible, make friends with your enemies. I wouldn't want tanks rolling through my neighborhood without letting them know I don't want to make any trouble.
That plan has a history of backfiring if and when the invading forces are ejected from your territory. First thing the French civilians did when the Allied forces took back their towns and villages was march all the collaborators out into the street, with various punishments inflicted depending on their level of collaboration. Not to mention the possibility of resistance fighters hunting you down and killing you during the occupation. If a foreign army occupies your country, your best option is to accept that you are now - at best - a second class citizen, stay out of their way but don't go out of your way to be friendly or helpful towards them.
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Other than that, I guess just fatten up the cats on the last of the kibble and hope the BBQ sauce holds out.
If I was on of those who was badly effected I would cry myself to sleep at night while asking the question "why is everyone laughing at me? the bastards?"
Um. My family's farm is about half a tank of petrol away. And as for all of the above, yes, or a member of my family can. And we aren't even crazy survivalists. It's just basic living on a farm stuff. I mean, chopping wood when you don't have a chainsaw? Seriously? I can think of at least three ways off the top of my head - two-handed axe, saw or even just wooden or stone wedge and a sledge hammer. As for transporting it - a wheel barrow? Are these seriously problems for people? Sure, there would be difficulties and you'd have to make do without some stuff. You may even have to reinvent the wheel so to speak sometimes and it's going to involve hard work just doing the basics. But survival basics are, well, basic. They're hard work, but hardly complicated.
I think my only major issue would be acquiring a gun at short notice as my dad long ago turned in his shotguns and rifles. Although thinking about it, our farm manager almost certainly has one or two guns. It would also be nice to get some sort of electrical generator set up operating of wind and/or solar power but hardly essential. I wonder if it would be possible to repurpose the Aga to run of solid fuels rather than oil, although they have three large fireplaces and a stove that would suffice. Their water is already drawn directly off springs off the hillside, as are all the houses on the property, farm manager and tenants and it requires very little maintenance so that shouldn't be an issue.
Farming in the UK is a shitty industry to be in at the moment, but if there was a substantial collapse of the current economy (ie, no more oil), then farming would quickly revert to being a major earner. Without oil to fuel farm machinery or make fertiliser you're going to rely a lot more on the mass-manpower farming methods that were common up until the early 1900s. This means a resurgent in farm communities, which my parent's farm is already equipped to accommodate (most of the buildings date back to the original farming methods, so it's already built to accommodate the sort of size of workforce you'd require). We'd need to source some things like horses and find a blacksmith to make some farm equipment such as horse-drawn ploughs but all these tertiary professions would make a resurgence in this sort of situation anyway so it shouldn't be hard to find locals who once did it as more of a hobby first retooling existing machinery and then later forging original pieces.
This is assuming a situation where our current economic dependencies disappear but society and government remains essentially intact. Which is the most realistic SHTF scenario. If we're looking at total collapse of society in a short space of time, you've got a much bigger problem, even if you get to the farm, how do you go about defending it from marauders and such?
Nowhere near the long-term collapses that are being proposed here, which border on the tinfoil-hat type, but it's definitely something that can cause major problems if you're not prepared.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Hell, a heavy snow can grind things to a temporary halt in Scotland. It's ok if it melts after a few days. But when you start reaching a week and realise you might not be able to get into town to do the weekly shop things start to get a bit cabin fever. Although if it comes down to it, you can always just drive the tractor to Tescos.
Don't even get me started on bloody Glasgow. An inch of snow and that stupid city just shuts up shop.
Snow gets plowed pretty quickly, especially in Canada. I'm talking about a five-inch layer of solid ice covering fucking everything, breaking power lines, collapsing houses, and generally causing the aforementioned feces-fan contact. Serves as a good reminder of how dependant on infrastructure we are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_ice_storm_of_1998
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2007_North_American_ice_storm
But yeah, lots of places - even in Canada - declare a state of emergency when more than two flakes of snow are on the ground at once.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
True enough, and it's fucking hilarious to watch said events happen.
It does present a good case for having a stockpile of supplies though. I've got enough for a 72-hour blackout comfortably, but beyond that I'd have to start rationing down.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I host a podcast about movies.
Eh, if they invade, we'll just do what we have always done when Russia invades.
Hide in the forests, zerg rush them out of nowhere when they enter them, until they get sick of it and leave.
What, it has worked in the past!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LAFmuAbIds&feature=related
That's is exactly the reason why we cant anything nice...
Though honestly after watching that video I can now understand why Witch Burning was a popular thing back in the day.
That is the best worst thing.
Also Finland sounds better than my country. Can you shoot guns and smoke mad weed while possibly chilling with your posse on the corner?
You're one of the rarities. Keep in mind that the US is built upon suburbia and the "family farm" is generally long, long drive from the city. Half the people here don't have the physical ability to do most of what I asked above but they all have plans to become the next Dick Proenneke without a realistic idea of what it will entail.
Weed is illegal here, I'm afraid. But as long as it's personal use, they don't really care...start to distribute it, and they clamp down on you. It's kind of like Netherlands, except a bit harsher.
And yeah, you can shoot guns, we have a crapload of them. There's two gunstores next to my house. Why, I just shot a gun other day!
Eh I guess. I suppose I just have faith in humanity's ability to adapt. Ask a suburbanite how to skin a rabbit now and they would probably just grimace at you and go stand at the other side of the bus stop. Wait until they're hungry enough and toss them a dead rabbit and see how quickly they clean it.
It might take them a while to get efficient at that sort of stuff but once they come to terms with the basic fact that rabbit has meat, me is hungry, me want meat, then they'll figure out some way to strip the skin off and clean out the guts.
Same goes for most stuff. There'd be some trial and error involved, the occasional vomiting fit while they work out which berries are and are not poisonous, that sort of thing but I'm sure they'll muddle through. So long as nature provides, man will exploit.
Good thing civilization isn't really going to end.
You need to cut them open, take out their pancreas, and extract the insulin out of them with medical tools.
Hope you got a shitload of sheep as well, by the way.
The sheep devastator cometh in the night!
An honestly, poorly controlled and refined insulin is much better than no insulin at all.
Naturally, this only works if the end of the world is something less annoying than zombie hordes that eat every living thing they can reach. In that case, I'll need to find a chasm, and dig some ditches.
Basically, I'm toast.
If it was some sort of deadly illness, I'd get out of the country ASAP (assuming it wasn't a world-wide pandemic). Of course I wouldn't want to infect anyone else, so if there was a way of figuring out if I had it or not I'd use it, then get the hell out of there. Transportation is going to get shut down real quick, and soon enough a quarantine will be in effect. If you haven't left by then, you're not leaving for a long time.
There are two likely zombie scenarios: complete chaos or established safe zones (or both at the same time). People might be scrambling for supplies and a way out of the city/country, and/or areas are being sealed off and designated "safe zones" are being established. If it's every man, woman and child for him or herself, I'm getting supplies, my family and heading to a less populated area. Otherwise, I'm going wherever the military has cleared out.
If the bombs are being dropped and the missiles are being launched, I'm headed to the nearest fallout shelter. I'm either going to make it, or I'm getting vaporized.
That plan has a history of backfiring if and when the invading forces are ejected from your territory. First thing the French civilians did when the Allied forces took back their towns and villages was march all the collaborators out into the street, with various punishments inflicted depending on their level of collaboration. Not to mention the possibility of resistance fighters hunting you down and killing you during the occupation. If a foreign army occupies your country, your best option is to accept that you are now - at best - a second class citizen, stay out of their way but don't go out of your way to be friendly or helpful towards them.