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Female attendance?

2

Posts

  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    Recruit wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    Recruit wrote:
    Or beat just to move on in the franchise.

    Like the later Final Fantasy games?

    Honestly... Once I got through FFVIII, I was so disenchanted with the games, I played the first disc of FFIX and didn't pick of a single one after that.

    I've decided I'm not going to bother playing past FFVII. I hear one of the newer ones is worth playing, but I'm not sure which one it is. Apparently the main character is happy. Baffling.

    My wife is a big fan of the Final Fantasy series (thanks to me), and she actually enjoyed FFIX. She's not so big on FFX or FFX-2 ("it's too much like Final Fantasy Barbie, and it makes me feel dorky just playing it"), and she still hasn't played FFVIII yet--mainly under my advisement. I say give IX a whirl and maybe X.

    Also, a gloomy, brooding main character does not a good game make.

    Pkmoutl on
    gray.jpg
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Recruit wrote:

    I... really? I guess that's what I get for being a jaded asshole when it comes to playing that series. Once I beat FFVII, the experience was starting it's decline (Peaking at FFVI) and FFVIII just made me hate every one of the characters in that installment, except for Seifer, he was a harsh mo'fo'.

    I played FFIX, like I said, through the first disc, and it didn't do a thing for me. The cartooney style characters were tolerable, the gameplay wasn't altogether similar or too different to the other incarnations of The Fantasy, but the characters weren't compelling, the plot was silly, and the main character... a fucking tail? Come on! And you can read my feelings on FFX and FFX-2 in my sig.

    Really really.
    Like I said: I'm not sure which one he's talking about. Also, I haven't played any FF games other than Tactics (and I didn't play much of that) that weren't still done in sprite graphics. I also haven't played any of the other games this kid has recommended to me, so I'm not sure whether he's right or not.

    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Waz on
  • OfficerOfficer Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    Recruit wrote:

    I... really? I guess that's what I get for being a jaded asshole when it comes to playing that series. Once I beat FFVII, the experience was starting it's decline (Peaking at FFVI) and FFVIII just made me hate every one of the characters in that installment, except for Seifer, he was a harsh mo'fo'.

    I played FFIX, like I said, through the first disc, and it didn't do a thing for me. The cartooney style characters were tolerable, the gameplay wasn't altogether similar or too different to the other incarnations of The Fantasy, but the characters weren't compelling, the plot was silly, and the main character... a fucking tail? Come on! And you can read my feelings on FFX and FFX-2 in my sig.

    Really really.
    Like I said: I'm not sure which one he's talking about. Also, I haven't played any FF games other than Tactics (and I didn't play much of that) that weren't still done in sprite graphics. I also haven't played any of the other games this kid has recommended to me, so I'm not sure whether he's right or not.

    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Try out the Mana series (Seiken Densetsu as it's also called). Those games we brilliant. Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, Sword of Mana. All of them gave me hours of enjoyment. And Secret and Legend both were worth my time on plays and replays. Also, if you can get your hands on a copy, get Xenogears. That game... is... amazing! Xenosaga was good, but very long and involved, and the two sequals were too much for me. They didn't have the drawing/staying power in my heart. But definately give Xenogears a whirl, if you get the chance. It's one of those games that has maintained it's value, from sheer badassness. I'm psyched I still have my original copy with instruction booklet and everything.

    Officer on
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Recruit wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    Recruit wrote:

    I... really? I guess that's what I get for being a jaded asshole when it comes to playing that series. Once I beat FFVII, the experience was starting it's decline (Peaking at FFVI) and FFVIII just made me hate every one of the characters in that installment, except for Seifer, he was a harsh mo'fo'.

    I played FFIX, like I said, through the first disc, and it didn't do a thing for me. The cartooney style characters were tolerable, the gameplay wasn't altogether similar or too different to the other incarnations of The Fantasy, but the characters weren't compelling, the plot was silly, and the main character... a fucking tail? Come on! And you can read my feelings on FFX and FFX-2 in my sig.

    Really really.
    Like I said: I'm not sure which one he's talking about. Also, I haven't played any FF games other than Tactics (and I didn't play much of that) that weren't still done in sprite graphics. I also haven't played any of the other games this kid has recommended to me, so I'm not sure whether he's right or not.

    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Try out the Mana series (Seiken Densetsu as it's also called). Those games we brilliant. Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, Sword of Mana. All of them gave me hours of enjoyment. And Secret and Legend both were worth my time on plays and replays. Also, if you can get your hands on a copy, get Xenogears. That game... is... amazing! Xenosaga was good, but very long and involved, and the two sequals were too much for me. They didn't have the drawing/staying power in my heart. But definately give Xenogears a whirl, if you get the chance. It's one of those games that has maintained it's value, from sheer badassness. I'm psyched I still have my original copy with instruction booklet and everything.

    The Mana series is next on my list, right after I finish Illusion of Gaia. I'm very excited to play them.
    Xenosaga is for which system? Bring it up when you come to BC.

    Waz on
  • dr_wdr_w Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Agreed. And if you haven't played Dreamfall yet, you really need to.

    dr_w on
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Agreed. And if you haven't played Dreamfall yet, you really need to.

    I heard it was a really big let down, actually. It nearly killed me when I heard that. I cried a little.
    For real.

    I cried.
    But if you are giving it a thumbs up, I'll check it out.

    Waz on
  • OfficerOfficer Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    Recruit wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    Recruit wrote:

    I... really? I guess that's what I get for being a jaded asshole when it comes to playing that series. Once I beat FFVII, the experience was starting it's decline (Peaking at FFVI) and FFVIII just made me hate every one of the characters in that installment, except for Seifer, he was a harsh mo'fo'.

    I played FFIX, like I said, through the first disc, and it didn't do a thing for me. The cartooney style characters were tolerable, the gameplay wasn't altogether similar or too different to the other incarnations of The Fantasy, but the characters weren't compelling, the plot was silly, and the main character... a fucking tail? Come on! And you can read my feelings on FFX and FFX-2 in my sig.

    Really really.
    Like I said: I'm not sure which one he's talking about. Also, I haven't played any FF games other than Tactics (and I didn't play much of that) that weren't still done in sprite graphics. I also haven't played any of the other games this kid has recommended to me, so I'm not sure whether he's right or not.

    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Try out the Mana series (Seiken Densetsu as it's also called). Those games we brilliant. Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, Sword of Mana. All of them gave me hours of enjoyment. And Secret and Legend both were worth my time on plays and replays. Also, if you can get your hands on a copy, get Xenogears. That game... is... amazing! Xenosaga was good, but very long and involved, and the two sequals were too much for me. They didn't have the drawing/staying power in my heart. But definately give Xenogears a whirl, if you get the chance. It's one of those games that has maintained it's value, from sheer badassness. I'm psyched I still have my original copy with instruction booklet and everything.

    The Mana series is next on my list, right after I finish Illusion of Gaia. I'm very excited to play them.
    Xenosaga is for which system? Bring it up when you come to BC.

    It's for PSX. I'll bring my copy so you can check it out. The battle system is very different, very enjoyable, and the characters are all well flushed out with interesting backstories and hidden pasts. Tons of fun!

    Officer on
  • dr_wdr_w Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    dr_w wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    T: DrW: Longest Journey is one of the greatest games ever.

    Agreed. And if you haven't played Dreamfall yet, you really need to.

    I heard it was a really big let down, actually. It nearly killed me when I heard that. I cried a little.
    For real.

    I cried.
    But if you are giving it a thumbs up, I'll check it out.

    For the most part, Dreamfall is to LJ what Sons of Liberty was to Metal Gear Solid. It's the Raiden scenario. But it works well. Also, there's this whole quasi-Tomb Raider gameplay thing with stupid little combat scenes, but they're not too bad.

    The sad fact is, Longest Journey was the last true graphic adventure. The genre is dead. You can't sell games unless they validate video card purchases anymore. I think Dreamfall represents a perfectly acceptable transitional species between graphic adventures and, well, whatever comes next. If you keep an open mind, I think you'll like it. If nothing else, it's cool to revisit places from LJ in full 3D--they are exactly the same, it rocks. Also, April's a badass warlock rebel fighter in Arcadia now, which is cool considering she once carried around a toy ape and stuff.

    dr_w on
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:
    For the most part, Dreamfall is to LJ what Sons of Liberty was to Metal Gear Solid. It's the Raiden scenario. But it works well. Also, there's this whole quasi-Tomb Raider gameplay thing with stupid little combat scenes, but they're not too bad.

    The sad fact is, Longest Journey was the last true graphic adventure. The genre is dead. You can't sell games unless they validate video card purchases anymore. I think Dreamfall represents a perfectly acceptable transitional species between graphic adventures and, well, whatever comes next. If you keep an open mind, I think you'll like it. If nothing else, it's cool to revisit places from LJ in full 3D--they are exactly the same, it rocks. Also, April's a badass warlock rebel fighter in Arcadia now, which is cool considering she once carried around a toy ape and stuff.

    Yeah, I heard about the combat and I was just confused. I really miss games like this, and I find it really unfortunate that the ones you do encounter are either painfully easy, or rediculously hard (Where hard means illogical).

    I think what I liked most about games like this was the fact that they made me laugh. Laughing is the best thing ever.

    Waz on
  • dr_wdr_w Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    dr_w wrote:
    For the most part, Dreamfall is to LJ what Sons of Liberty was to Metal Gear Solid. It's the Raiden scenario. But it works well. Also, there's this whole quasi-Tomb Raider gameplay thing with stupid little combat scenes, but they're not too bad.

    The sad fact is, Longest Journey was the last true graphic adventure. The genre is dead. You can't sell games unless they validate video card purchases anymore. I think Dreamfall represents a perfectly acceptable transitional species between graphic adventures and, well, whatever comes next. If you keep an open mind, I think you'll like it. If nothing else, it's cool to revisit places from LJ in full 3D--they are exactly the same, it rocks. Also, April's a badass warlock rebel fighter in Arcadia now, which is cool considering she once carried around a toy ape and stuff.

    Yeah, I heard about the combat and I was just confused. I really miss games like this, and I find it really unfortunate that the ones you do encounter are either painfully easy, or rediculously hard (Where hard means illogical).

    I think what I liked most about games like this was the fact that they made me laugh. Laughing is the best thing ever.

    There's some comedy, but not much. It's a darker game. And I know what you mean. Monkey Island 2 and Space Quest 5 even today make me want to vomit with laughter.

    dr_w on
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:
    There's some comedy, but not much. It's a darker game. And I know what you mean. Monkey Island 2 and Space Quest 5 even today make me want to vomit with laughter.

    Crow is still in it, right?

    There need to be more games like the vintage lucasarts and seirra games.
    I'm hoping someone will buy me the Kings QuestVII and Space Quest 5 for my birthday.

    Waz on
  • dr_wdr_w Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    Crow is still in it, right?

    There need to be more games like the vintage lucasarts and seirra games.
    I'm hoping someone will buy me the Kings QuestVII and Space Quest 5 for my birthday.

    Crow is in full effect.

    And, I hear ya. But the graphic adventure is over as we knew it. Today's key gamer demographic would (and do) find graphic adventures 'boring'....the twitchy-fingered philistines.

    dr_w on
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    Crow is still in it, right?

    There need to be more games like the vintage lucasarts and seirra games.
    I'm hoping someone will buy me the Kings QuestVII and Space Quest 5 for my birthday.

    Crow is in full effect.

    And, I hear ya. But the graphic adventure is over as we knew it. Today's key gamer demographic would (and do) find graphic adventures 'boring'....the twitchy-fingered philistines.

    I blame Doom.

    Waz on
  • dr_wdr_w Registered User
    edited September 2006
    I think I blame Barney the Dinosaur. I mean, I grew up with 321 Contact and Mr. Wizard. Today's teeange gamers grew up with hugs from a Down Syndromatic giant mutant plushie. That'll stunt your intellectual capacity more than second-trimester maternal free-basing, ferchrissakes.

    dr_w on
  • SamyelSamyel Registered User
    edited September 2006
    I grew up with GI Joe and Transformers, and all I want to do is pwnz0r teh n00bies ftw.

    Unless I get distracted by a building game. In which case, I am a nurturing goddess (who can still pwnz0r teh n00bies.)

    Samyel on
    "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity."
  • DJBreslinDJBreslin Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Read "The Blank Slate" for both the male/female comparisons and the childhood rearing statements. Seriously. It's hard to start, but the book delivers.

    DJBreslin on
  • astrog33kastrog33k Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    One of the things that struck a chord with me during the Girls in Gaming panel was when one of the panelists said "Girls will play videogames when there's a videogame worth playing".

    I had to miss that panel unfortunately. I definitely agree though: even though I'm not a hardcore gamer these days, I still play a lot more than in the days of 8 bit games. I need more than 4 colors (or whatever) and map puzzles or jumping puzzles to keep my interest. If all I wanted was repetitive hand movements I'd be knitting, and at least then I'd have a sweater to show for my efforts.

    astrog33k on
    "My Limit Break involves a moose, the demon Baphomet, and a Kuiper Belt object. It takes four hours and you can't skip any of the cutscenes." --Pintsize, Questionable Content
  • WazWaz Registered User
    edited September 2006
    astrog33k wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    One of the things that struck a chord with me during the Girls in Gaming panel was when one of the panelists said "Girls will play videogames when there's a videogame worth playing".

    I had to miss that panel unfortunately. I definitely agree though: even though I'm not a hardcore gamer these days, I still play a lot more than in the days of 8 bit games. I need more than 4 colors (or whatever) and map puzzles or jumping puzzles to keep my interest. If all I wanted was repetitive hand movements I'd be knitting, and at least then I'd have a sweater to show for my efforts.

    But do you develop overwhelming compassion for your knitting? Does it make you laugh? Do you secretly wish it were a real person so you could marry it?


    I'm at the latter end of teenage-gamers-nowdays. I grew up in the mountians, hunting for food, playing RTS games, reading, and singing the songs my friends wrote. I don't think I even had a TV.

    Waz on
  • astrog33kastrog33k Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Waz wrote:
    But do you develop overwhelming compassion for your knitting? Does it make you laugh? Do you secretly wish it were a real person so you could marry it?

    See, that's my point. None of the games of my childhood (NES, original Game Boy, 3-5" floppies) ever did that, and there's very few today that do. I will game more when today's games do draw me in like that. Until then, I'll stick with Animal Crossing and WC3.

    (And I don't actually knit, I crochet, and I'm only up to afghans, but that's still preferable to me than than most things they hold up as "gems" of gaming like Halo or Prince of Persia.)

    astrog33k on
    "My Limit Break involves a moose, the demon Baphomet, and a Kuiper Belt object. It takes four hours and you can't skip any of the cutscenes." --Pintsize, Questionable Content
  • OfficerOfficer Registered User
    edited September 2006
    astrog33k wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    But do you develop overwhelming compassion for your knitting? Does it make you laugh? Do you secretly wish it were a real person so you could marry it?

    See, that's my point. None of the games of my childhood (NES, original Game Boy, 3-5" floppies) ever did that, and there's very few today that do. I will game more when today's games do draw me in like that. Until then, I'll stick with Animal Crossing and WC3.

    (And I don't actually knit, I crochet, and I'm only up to afghans, but that's still preferable to me than than most things they hold up as "gems" of gaming like Halo or Prince of Persia.)

    For me, games didn't start wending their way into my heart and staying there like some beautiful parasite until I got to SNES. NES certainly had some memorable titles (Super Marios 1-3, Duck Hunt, Zelda), but SNES hit games out of the park when they released Final Fantasy 2 and 3, Super Mario World, Mario Kart, Secret of Evermore, Secret of Mana, Final Fight. Those games were really special to me. They are the ones, I not only have in cartridge form, packaged and safe, but I emulate in ROM form.

    Personally, I never had much time for the gaming "gems" you mention. Halo never appealed, it was a good game, to be sure, but I never was all the interested. And Halo 2 made me more mad than anything. The PoPs were really quite amazing. Control wise and graphically, your character was essentially a spider monkey and that made me smile. A spider monkey with the ability to murder people with a dagger/knife/shortsword/chains.

    Ultimately, I sympathize with you in that most games these days aren't that immersive, unless you are really into that one quality that the developers nailed in the creation. Graphics, total control, replayability, competition worthiness, difficulty, immersive plot, character development and relatability. Most everyone has something in a game that they look for.

    Personally, I always look for gameplay, intuitive control and interesting content. That is my trifecta. If a game hits those three, they make it into my rotation of games I beat repeatedly. Sadly, nothing has made it into my cycle of gaming in over 4 years. The last game to work its way into my heart was Jade Cocoon 2.

    Normally, after such a diatribe, some net savvy gent would type something like </rant>. Instead, since I am not that person, I'll close with...

    BUCK FUTTER

    Officer on
  • BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I think that games have become too mainstream to really retain the originality and feeling that grabs you and keeps you honestly hooked.

    I tend to like 2 types of games, the pick it up and play casually gimmicky types like Guitar hero, DDR, and Smash brothers, and the seriously in depth mentally stimulating games with plot and story and all that good stuff.

    The fast and easy games are wonderful because I can play with everyone (and I have a ton of gamer roommates) we can spend a fun evening together laugh our asses off and well... it's just plain fun.

    The other is more something to play alone, which is much harder to pull off. It needs story and depth and feeling to make me want to play, and theres so many games out there just being pumped out like mad that companies don't put that kind of time and effort into them anymore. Which is sad, because these are the games that made me really love being a gamer.

    Although my original love for gaming is hella old school... playing on the the arcade pole position machine after school while my mom was working as a waitress at the bar...

    God I feel old now >.<

    BrokenAngel on
    k9mk2carn.pngeleventhdoc2carn.png *Proud Head Girl of Slytherin & Team Red*
  • BinkleyBinkley Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Man this thread made me realize that without fighting games my taste in gaming is completely (sterotypically) feminine. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's too bad FPS and RTS are apparently where all the competition is and FGs are a dying breed but I guess that's how life works.

    I <3 RPGs (JRPGs with GOOD character design) and adventure games. The games I'm looking most forward to on the DS are Touch Detective, Hotel Dusk and Phoenix Wright 2. Maybe I'm just getting old.

    That being said I love Dead Rising. Although with the replayability and crazy amount of choices and sandbox angle, shouldn't this game appeal to both sexes equally? I thought GTA had some gender-crossover appeal because of the sandbox qualities?

    Binkley on
    A video blog about random jank:
    The KB Life
  • TobiTobi Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Nekomimi wrote:
    dr_w wrote:
    The female mind is just not fascinated at the idea of running around a maze killing things with a gun, which (and let's be honest) pretty much sums up 95% of all games out there ever since Doom.

    But this whole girl gamer debate is getting old. I say just let the girl game if she wants to. If she wants to play Dig Dug or Bubble Bobble, fine. If she wants to play DoD, sure. They don't need to be introduced to gaming (contrary to popular belief, we ARE actually intelligent and know what we like and don't like). Perhaps a game, or a genre, but not the concept. I mean, crap... gaming's popular culture.

    But yeah, I'd say 3:1 or 4:1 for the ratio. I wonder if that will grow or shrink next year...

    Sorry, but these are such amazing points.

    I would say 4:1 is about right, and I would assume that to follow through until next year. I think we'll just be seeing MORE PEOPLE!

    Tobi on
    PMS clan + My 1UP profile + Myspace +

    GT(s): sagaciouz (Xbox 360), Annarchy (Halo 2)
  • OfficerOfficer Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Binkley wrote:
    Man this thread made me realize that without fighting games my taste in gaming is completely (sterotypically) feminine. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's too bad FPS and RTS are apparently where all the competition is and FGs are a dying breed but I guess that's how life works.

    I <3 RPGs (JRPGs with GOOD character design) and adventure games. The games I'm looking most forward to on the DS are Touch Detective, Hotel Dusk and Phoenix Wright 2. Maybe I'm just getting old.

    That being said I love Dead Rising. Although with the replayability and crazy amount of choices and sandbox angle, shouldn't this game appeal to both sexes equally? I thought GTA had some gender-crossover appeal because of the sandbox qualities?

    Hell nah! I'm a 20 year old, virile young stud and I am absolutely wild about RPGs! (See my previous post for further info) Nothing wrong with like a plot and actual development in a character/storyline. RPGs provide the most immersive gaming experiences, when it comes to setting up to play and getting through it all. They just deliver the goods in that respect.

    Not to mention, when you get a good RPG, they can actually be a real challenge when it comes to combat and boss fights. Jade Cocoon 2 delivers some truly explosive and difficult battles. The Final Fantasy games had a really good level of difficulty as well, if you weren't a power gamer (Like myself) and went after the best stuff and over-leveled.

    Also, you can look at games like the Suikoden series (Excluding IV, let us not speak of it again) and see an enourmously expansive game. Although, with as many characters as there were, you can't really have terrific character development, most of them take a back seat to the main Stars. And you can take a little peek at series like Disgaea, Grandia, Panzer Dragoon, The Mana Series, Wild Arms, Front Mission, and games like Gran Stream Saga, Saga Frontier, and Legend of the Dragoon and always have a fond memory of playing through something that was truly incredible. Games with these huge scopes, crossing time and space, worlds shaped by your actions. They are all wonderful and they deserve to be loved.

    So you're not getting old, you're just... you. And you love games that deserve the respect they get and the love you have for them.

    BAM 8)

    Officer on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:
    Waz wrote:
    Crow is still in it, right?

    There need to be more games like the vintage lucasarts and seirra games.
    I'm hoping someone will buy me the Kings QuestVII and Space Quest 5 for my birthday.

    Crow is in full effect.

    And, I hear ya. But the graphic adventure is over as we knew it. Today's key gamer demographic would (and do) find graphic adventures 'boring'....the twitchy-fingered philistines.

    I realize this is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to throw in my little diatribe here.

    For starters, I too mourn the loss of games like Kings Quest and Quest for Glory. I miss levelling up my lockpicks by using them on my nose (hint: don't do this at low skill levels), and I miss the focus those games had on character, settings, and story over action.

    However, I think the entire adventure genre, as we knew it, was created not as an ideal form of gameplay, but as a response to technical limitations when attempting to work with complex characters and gameplay concepts. When games like Quest for Glory and Kings Quest were just coming out, having an "action" game with dialogue, scenery, and (for the time) complex characters just wasn't going to happen. You either had blips shooting at bleeps or you had big, static backgrounds with big, animated characters pasted on top of them.

    When I think of the games I miss, what I miss about them isn't the interface. There's nothing particularly grand about point-and-click as a means for interacting with a game environment. It is, at best, utilitarian and, at worst, archaic and bland. What I miss from adventure games is the focus on good character over big guns, the carefully crafted scenery, and the excellent dialogue.

    So, the point-and-click interface may be dead or dying, but I think saying that adventure games are done is maybe a bit....pessimestic? irrelevant? I'm not sure what the best word is.

    Look at games like Psychonauts: It's a platformer, but like an adventure game the platforming is fairly irrelavant compared to the characters, settings, story, and dialogue. You don't play the game because you like jumping, you play the game because "MY MILK IS DELICIOUS!" The dialogue, setting, scenery, characters, and general absurdness of the entire world are what make the game playable, aside from that it's an unremarkable platformer.

    I'm not trying to pee in anyone's cereal. Like I said, I miss the games just like everyone else who played them does, but I don't think the genre is dead. I think the genre is evolving, and while the games may not be coming out at a constant pace, the good ones rarely did. So instead of randomly clicking around the screen hoping to find the pixel that I need to hit to open a secret door, I'll do the same by bouncing around on a psychic ball, or by continually telling the game to have my avatar search for secret doors, or whatever. The best stuff adventure games had to offer can still be found in modern titles, you just end up interacting with the machine in a slightly different way to get to the good stuff you actually care about.

    /rant off

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • oogmaroogmar Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I was there to work, mainly, but I would have come even if I wasn't on staff. When we had down time (and I wasn't skateboarding down the back hallway), I would jump onto an open box and own face at BF2 or any other game I could get my grimy girl be-germed hands on.

    I think the easiest way to tell a girl gamer in my age grouping (say 16-22) is the readiness to admit being a gamer outside of con walls. I mean, I still hesitate to be like, "Yes, if I had it my way I would give up my ability to sleep and frag the shit out of everything, get every elite piece of gear on WoW, replay DII:LoD until my heart gave out, and relive every Commander Keen at least once a day" because when I was younger, that WAS NOT OKAY. I mean, now girls go, "Yay, I play games!" and whether they do or not, the reaction is positive. I haven't had anybody recoil in horror at the mention of Morrowind or Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, but it used to be a pretty easy way to, well, not be accepted.

    As a 10 year old girl, this deeply bothered me. So I just played more Wolfenstein.

    So that's always been a bit tip-off for me. Kind of like the skating thing, actually. I don't trick skate and I COULDN'T trick skate to save my life, but I do use it for transportation and can out-speed most trick boarders without really thinking about it. I don't consider myself a skater because I can't use it as a social thing to kill time at some skate park and I can barely olly onto a curb, let alone do a kickflip. But every so often I zoom buy one and notice how many girls are standing around in mini skirts, stumbling off of boards they just bought with daddy's money because they are, like, SO into ~sk8boarding~!!!!! <3!!

    In summary: Some girls are just dumb.

    Also: My arch nemesis on Battlefield 2 is this chick the same age as me who plays down in LA on helo, and I shoot her down with my anti-tank stuff. As retribution, I'm pretty much her only target when we play. I hope to meet her someday just to shake her hand and give her a friendly punch in the face. Her stats are ridiculously good.

    oogmar on
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  • BinkleyBinkley Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Recruit wrote:

    Hell nah! I'm a 20 year old, virile young stud and I am absolutely wild about RPGs! (See my previous post for further info) Nothing wrong with like a plot and actual development in a character/storyline. RPGs provide the most immersive gaming experiences, when it comes to setting up to play and getting through it all. They just deliver the goods in that respect.

    Not to mention, when you get a good RPG, they can actually be a real challenge when it comes to combat and boss fights. Jade Cocoon 2 delivers some truly explosive and difficult battles. The Final Fantasy games had a really good level of difficulty as well, if you weren't a power gamer (Like myself) and went after the best stuff and over-leveled.

    Also, you can look at games like the Suikoden series (Excluding IV, let us not speak of it again) and see an enourmously expansive game. Although, with as many characters as there were, you can't really have terrific character development, most of them take a back seat to the main Stars. And you can take a little peek at series like Disgaea, Grandia, Panzer Dragoon, The Mana Series, Wild Arms, Front Mission, and games like Gran Stream Saga, Saga Frontier, and Legend of the Dragoon and always have a fond memory of playing through something that was truly incredible. Games with these huge scopes, crossing time and space, worlds shaped by your actions. They are all wonderful and they deserve to be loved.

    So you're not getting old, you're just... you. And you love games that deserve the respect they get and the love you have for them.

    BAM 8)

    Good point, I love a number of games on your list. I guess I just enjoy characters and stories immensely. (All the time for RPGs and the like do cut into my time to try and be good at fighting games though.)

    Binkley on
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  • dr_wdr_w Registered User
    edited September 2006
    I realize this is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to throw in my little diatribe here.

    For starters, I too mourn the loss of games like Kings Quest and Quest for Glory. I miss levelling up my lockpicks by using them on my nose (hint: don't do this at low skill levels), and I miss the focus those games had on character, settings, and story over action.

    However, I think the entire adventure genre, as we knew it, was created not as an ideal form of gameplay, but as a response to technical limitations when attempting to work with complex characters and gameplay concepts. When games like Quest for Glory and Kings Quest were just coming out, having an "action" game with dialogue, scenery, and (for the time) complex characters just wasn't going to happen. You either had blips shooting at bleeps or you had big, static backgrounds with big, animated characters pasted on top of them.

    When I think of the games I miss, what I miss about them isn't the interface. There's nothing particularly grand about point-and-click as a means for interacting with a game environment. It is, at best, utilitarian and, at worst, archaic and bland. What I miss from adventure games is the focus on good character over big guns, the carefully crafted scenery, and the excellent dialogue.

    So, the point-and-click interface may be dead or dying, but I think saying that adventure games are done is maybe a bit....pessimestic? irrelevant? I'm not sure what the best word is.

    Look at games like Psychonauts: It's a platformer, but like an adventure game the platforming is fairly irrelavant compared to the characters, settings, story, and dialogue. You don't play the game because you like jumping, you play the game because "MY MILK IS DELICIOUS!" The dialogue, setting, scenery, characters, and general absurdness of the entire world are what make the game playable, aside from that it's an unremarkable platformer.

    I'm not trying to pee in anyone's cereal. Like I said, I miss the games just like everyone else who played them does, but I don't think the genre is dead. I think the genre is evolving, and while the games may not be coming out at a constant pace, the good ones rarely did. So instead of randomly clicking around the screen hoping to find the pixel that I need to hit to open a secret door, I'll do the same by bouncing around on a psychic ball, or by continually telling the game to have my avatar search for secret doors, or whatever. The best stuff adventure games had to offer can still be found in modern titles, you just end up interacting with the machine in a slightly different way to get to the good stuff you actually care about.

    /rant off

    I agree with you totally. That's why I like what Dreamfall has done: delivered the 'mood' of a graphic adventure in a fully immersive way.

    However, there are certain things the specific format of the graphic adventure uniquely delivered that have been lost: namely, the idea of the inventory-driven puzzle, and the idea of vast dialog decision-trees where you choose your character's dialog from a list of options. I realize certain games still have it, like KOTOR, but it's rare. Even Dreamfall did away with the 'what do you say' list in favor of a 'what conversational tack do you take' list, like 'Angry' and 'Apologetic'. And the main thing I miss is comedy, as Waz said. I would really like to take Guybrush Threepwood out for a spin again and say outlandish, anachronistic things to other characters and laugh myself silly.

    dr_w on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:

    I agree with you totally. That's why I like what Dreamfall has done: delivered the 'mood' of a graphic adventure in a fully immersive way.

    However, there are certain things the specific format of the graphic adventure uniquely delivered that have been lost: namely, the idea of the inventory-driven puzzle, and the idea of vast dialog decision-trees where you choose your character's dialog from a list of options. I realize certain games still have it, like KOTOR, but it's rare. Even Dreamfall did away with the 'what do you say' list in favor of a 'what conversational tack do you take' list, like 'Angry' and 'Apologetic'. And the main thing I miss is comedy, as Waz said. I would really like to take Guybrush Threepwood out for a spin again and say outlandish, anachronistic things to other characters and laugh myself silly.

    True :cry:

    But Psychonauts! It's good! Rawr! :wink:

    PotatoNinja on
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  • NekomimiNekomimi attorney at lawl Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2006
    dr_w wrote:
    I mean, I grew up with 321 Contact and Mr. Wizard.

    Ooooh man, now you've gone and gotten the 321 Contact theme song stuck in my head.

    Cold hard science is better than a warm fuzzy hug any old day.

    Cold hard science will be with you until you die.

    Nekomimi on
  • SeatownstrikerSeatownstriker Registered User
    edited September 2006
    I think I saw about the same amount of girls there this year as I did last year.

    Seatownstriker on
  • Mo1sonMo1son Registered User
    edited September 2006
    I think that games have become too mainstream to really retain the originality and feeling that grabs you and keeps you honestly hooked.

    I tend to like 2 types of games, the pick it up and play casually gimmicky types like Guitar hero, DDR, and Smash brothers, and the seriously in depth mentally stimulating games with plot and story and all that good stuff.

    The fast and easy games are wonderful because I can play with everyone (and I have a ton of gamer roommates) we can spend a fun evening together laugh our asses off and well... it's just plain fun.

    The other is more something to play alone, which is much harder to pull off. It needs story and depth and feeling to make me want to play, and theres so many games out there just being pumped out like mad that companies don't put that kind of time and effort into them anymore. Which is sad, because these are the games that made me really love being a gamer.

    Although my original love for gaming is hella old school... playing on the the arcade pole position machine after school while my mom was working as a waitress at the bar...

    God I feel old now >.<

    Rhythym Action / Bemani games are much more immersive than that =) You can take any game and pick it up and play.. But to master them, it takes practice, precision, timing.. and just as much skill as any FPS, racing, or fighting game. Hell, they are basically all I play... I love them all :D And yeah, they are friendly to any gamer.. young or old, male or female.

    Mo1son on
  • BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Mo1son wrote:
    I think that games have become too mainstream to really retain the originality and feeling that grabs you and keeps you honestly hooked.

    I tend to like 2 types of games, the pick it up and play casually gimmicky types like Guitar hero, DDR, and Smash brothers, and the seriously in depth mentally stimulating games with plot and story and all that good stuff.

    The fast and easy games are wonderful because I can play with everyone (and I have a ton of gamer roommates) we can spend a fun evening together laugh our asses off and well... it's just plain fun.

    The other is more something to play alone, which is much harder to pull off. It needs story and depth and feeling to make me want to play, and theres so many games out there just being pumped out like mad that companies don't put that kind of time and effort into them anymore. Which is sad, because these are the games that made me really love being a gamer.

    Although my original love for gaming is hella old school... playing on the the arcade pole position machine after school while my mom was working as a waitress at the bar...

    God I feel old now >.<

    Rhythym Action / Bemani games are much more immersive than that =) You can take any game and pick it up and play.. But to master them, it takes practice, precision, timing.. and just as much skill as any FPS, racing, or fighting game. Hell, they are basically all I play... I love them all :D And yeah, they are friendly to any gamer.. young or old, male or female.

    Oh I didn't mean they weren't. But one of the reasons I love them so much is that you don't HAVE to master them to play, and can still have a blast. They are games that all my roommates, my kids, hell even my mom could pick up and play with me, but are still challenging as all hell when you want to try and push yourself.

    BrokenAngel on
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  • wenchkillawenchkilla Registered User
    edited October 2006
    This thread was a super interesting read, and makes me wish I had gone to the Women in Gaming panel at 06.

    wenchkilla on
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  • Sibyl VaneSibyl Vane Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Just gonna jump on in here....



    About the whole "I hate it when girl games announce that they're girl gamers" thing, while it's very annoying, that's now always how it is.


    I work at EB. I freakin' love it, because I freakin' love games. But I can't tell you how many times some asshole has come up to the counter and been like "So, do you actually play games or do you just work here because you're a girl?" or they'll make snide remarks like "oh, look, they hired a hot girl to run the counter to sell more", etc. Which I definitely don't appreciate. I guess I don't fall into the "stereotypically tomboy" category that some people seem to think all girl gamers are part of, but I hate being accused of not being a gamer just because I'm a girl. But hell, I've been known to talk with customers for a LONG time about certain games, suggesting games they might like, offering advice if I've already played the game, etc. So in cases like mine, I'm forced to announce that, yes, I DO in fact play games. I'm not just a sales tool. I...hope? xD my manager's a girl though (and she too plays games), so I doubt it.




    Next year will be my first PAX, so I'm glad to hear there'll be alot of other girls to chat with :D hooray~

    Sibyl Vane on
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  • VixendettaVixendetta Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Sibyl Vane wrote:
    About the whole "I hate it when girl games announce that they're girl gamers" thing, while it's very annoying, that's now always how it is.
    When I'm in-game and I see a girl blatantly tossing around the fact that she's a girl... it bugs me. I call those "IMAGURLs" and I steer hard and fast in the other direction.

    I find it annoying and a pathetic plea for attention from people you KNOW will fawn all over you the second you hint at it. (Much like MySpace, heehee, but that's another can of worms.)

    (Subtle) Example:
    player 1: "hey dude, heal me man, I'm pulling."
    player 2: "<-- girl, don't call me dude"

    Who cares they call you dude? You're there to play a game, for fuck's sake.

    It's like they take every opportunity to tell you they're a girl but TRY to be subtle about it and FAIL MISERABLY.

    In real life... well, no one can help that. You're a girl. You'll get noticed. I know a bunch of my friends dress down ON PURPOSE because they don't WANT to be a girl, they just want to be a gamer at the convention.

    I don't think they should have to do that, but that's what it takes.

    I think girl attendance is down at conventions not because fewer girls play games.... but most (admittedly paranoid) girls don't want to have that kind of attention focused on them when they're just exploring something they like.

    [EDIT] - fixed some language.

    Vixendetta on
  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    Crazy dames.

    The Geek on
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  • starsicknessstarsickness Registered User
    edited November 2006
    Sibyl Vane wrote:
    I work at EB. I freakin' love it, because I freakin' love games. But I can't tell you how many times some asshole has come up to the counter and been like "So, do you actually play games or do you just work here because you're a girl?" or they'll make snide remarks like "oh, look, they hired a hot girl to run the counter to sell more", etc. Which I definitely don't appreciate. I guess I don't fall into the "stereotypically tomboy" category that some people seem to think all girl gamers are part of, but I hate being accused of not being a gamer just because I'm a girl. But hell, I've been known to talk with customers for a LONG time about certain games, suggesting games they might like, offering advice if I've already played the game, etc. So in cases like mine, I'm forced to announce that, yes, I DO in fact play games. I'm not just a sales tool. I...hope? xD my manager's a girl though (and she too plays games), so I doubt it.

    Preach it, sista.
    Ditto to vixen as well.

    I like games, I'm proud of that.

    It's a thin line ALWAYS between doing what you want, and being labeled an attention whore. We femmes are tightrope walkers for these bitter social standards, or at least its how it seems so often.
    I can't say I mind it either way. The same girls who are excessively flaunting it or themselves are equally drooled on and scorned by those around them, so they do what they do. I'm content with knowing that myself, and many other ladies I meet, are quality chicks sincerely interested in what these gatherings are about.

    I've seen the female percentage climb yearly (along with the population of the expo in general) but I'm not disappointed by it.

    starsickness on
  • aedesaedes Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    (Sociological hack-job analysis of the reactions to a changing group dynamic deleted. Decided I sounded too much like an asshat.)

    But let me offer a ditto that it's just too freaking tiresome to have to introduce yourself as a female, and then list your favorite games (tactfully excising the Katamari's and even the KOTOR's) to try to get people to take you seriously. Why should I need a goddamn Curriculum Vitae for video games? How many FPS's should I have to like in order to escape the "casual gamer" or the "just a girlfriend" label? And why should anyone care if I am a casual gamer? My money's as green as the next geek's.

    It's heartening to know that gaming society seems to be calming down about women in their midst and don't automatically assume that I'm crazy for Sims and wouldn't be interested in the next Splinter Cell or new physics engines when I go to PAX. I have to say that PAX itself was generally very welcoming and laid back about the gender issue. I felt like I may have gotten some dissaproving glares for not whipping out a DS while in line. But that may not have had anything to do with my two X chromosomes.

    And it's also heartening to see female gamers calming down. I noticed a lot of other women looking relaxed, not stressed or anxious, not feeling the need to advertise their gender AND geek cred like a neon sign, nor feeling like they have to run back to the hotel room to scrape the leers off. Just perusing the demos in comfortable clothes and having fun, which is really what PAX is supposed to be about. I think I've said elsewhere that this stands in contrast to other cons I've been to (yes, GenCon, I'm looking in your direction) where the ratio of women to men seemed even smaller and the discomfort far higher.

    As to why there are still so fewer women into video games than men, well I could write another shrill screed. But if I do, it better damn well get me my master's, because I just wouldn't have time for that shit otherwise.

    aedes on
  • ChiefinatorChiefinator Registered User
    edited January 2007
    My friend was an omeganaut this year so we got in earlier than everyone else and we were sitting on the stairs next to where everyone would be coming in, and one of the first people in (a guy of course) has this video camera taping the opening and points the camera at us and says "They're only here because they got paid".
    I was so fucking offended. He passed before I could even say anything. I was just standing there thinking "I wish I had that glass Bawls bottle, I'll fucking shank him".

    Chiefinator on
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