We have a new update on The Future of the Penny Arcade Forums.

[WoW] Druid Thread: CLOSED FOR FLEA SPRAYING

StericaSterica YesRegistered User, Moderator mod
edited April 2009 in MMO Extravaganza
Let's get durid.

Druids have three specs. Like all hybrids, the role of a druid depends greatly upon its spec. Unlike all hybrids, druids have basic tools for each role available at all times. This makes for an interesting class and I will detail the effectiveness of each spec in certain areas. Being an MMORPG with nearly five years under its belt, this is merely a guideline and your mileage may vary.

Balance
Focus: Balance really focuses on pumping up your ranged dps via spells. A mix of DoTs and direct damage, the Balance druid pumps out the dps.

Leveling: Balance has come a long way since launch. Once you get Moonkin Form, you'll be drinking less and putting the hurt on more. Nonetheless, caster itemization for 1-60 is quite...poor and even worse if you want leather armor. While improvements were made in 2.3, this requires quite a bit of instancing as quest gear (for the most part) is quite lacking.

As you enter Outland and Northrend, thinks look up. More modern itemization philosophies benefit you greatly and you have your full set of talents. Focus more on killing things with Starfire while reducing your need to drink. DoTs take too long to really do their stuff, so don't worry about those.

PvE: Balance has come a long way since launch. Moonkins are among the best AoE classes, which is quite relevant at the moment because trash in raids are easy to AoE down. They also bring multiple raid buffs such as 13% spell damage, 5% crit and spell haste. And then you have basic druid perks like Innervate and Rebirth. No longer an outcast, many Moonkins have found homes in raiding guilds.

Balance has also gone from CC-light to CC-heavy. Roots can be cast indoors and more targets are available for hibernate in Northrend. Throw in Cyclone and you can briefly CC three mobs.

PvP: Balance has come a long way since launch. Thanks to an improved Nature's Grace, machine-gunning Wrath is great burst and all the CC of a druid is contained in Balance. Throw you in some heals and you have a class that isn't top of the heap but still functions quite well in PvP.

Feral Combat
Focus: Unlike most trees, Feral has two features: tanking and melee dps. As a result, several talents go off on their own path, meaning that you'll have to do decide if you want to perfect your tanking game or dps.

Leveling: Feral has been the leveling tree of choice for years now, and for good reason. Gearing up is easier than other melee classes because your weapon auto-levels from 1-60 and with we aren't picky about our weapon so long as the AP is good. No need to drink, multiple ways to escape in PvE and life is good for the feral druid.

PvE: People love tanks and, thanks Blizzard's new belief in four equal tank classes, bears will always be a welcomed addition to any raid or group. The same can't be said for cats, which are in need of buffs (coming in 3.1), but the dps is still good enough for the druid to help out when not needed for tanking. Druids brought exclusively for cat dps is still quite rare, as Moonkins are probably a preferred choice.

PvP: All druid specs are doing alright in PvP. We aren't a big name like Resto in seasons three and four, but you really can't say any spec is gimped. This is also true for feral, which is hard to CC and has ridiculous burst damage if allowed to stay in cat. When under pressure, a bear can hold out until things are clear. Shifting is dirt-cheap now, allowing for more heals and CC to be tossed around.

You can go far with feral.

Restoration
Focus: Having evolved from the early days, Resto druids now have a strong identity with their Heal over Time (HoT) spells. Weaving life the way an Affliction Warlock weaves deaths, a Restoration druid focuses less on big numbers (but we can do, don't forget) but rather a constant stream of healing.

There's a bit of hate on Resto that dates back to the days when Balance and Feral were incredibly bad specs and people were violently opposed to any attempts for the druids to branch out into other group roles. Like most hybrid classes, telling a druid to heal may still ruffle some feathers and receive some growling.

Leveling: Being focused on restoring HP rather than depleting it, Resto pretty much sucks at leveling quickly. Some changes to itemization do help (such as the distinction between +healing and +spell damage being removed), but the Resto druid still lacks the refinement to his or her damaging moves that talents provide. Leveling as a Resto druid is a slow process. No way around it.

But, if you intend on doing instances with friends to level, Resto is pretty solid there. But only if the bulk of your time is spent in instances. Even if you split solo leveling and instancing 50/50, it's better to just go Balance and heal with that spec.

PvE: Healers are always in demand. Druids have a number of instant heals to save the tank and by providing HoTs they keep the tank's HP smoother by healing between the cast times of other, normal direct heals. One weakness of the druid, AoE healing, has been fixed with Wild Growth and improvements to tranquility. We even have a fast "Flash Heal".

PvP: While they can hold their own, Resto's days of dominance are in the Lifebloomed days of Seasons 3 and 4. Lagging behind Resto Shaman and Holy Paladins, druids can still succeed in arena, but it might be harder for you. But 3.1 holds a number of buffs for Resto, so perhaps the glory days will come again.

YL9WnCY.png
Sterica on
«13456762

Posts

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wow.

    Glyphs sound AMAZING.

    Inquisitor on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I'm a druid and I approve of this thread title.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • KagnarosKagnaros Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    what about the restotarians?

    no more of this two party system. NO MORE!

    Kagnaros on
    fss.png
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    WOTLK: Rogues will share gear with ferals, at least for non tier gear. This gear may itemised to be sufficient to cap +hit for ferals. A blue mentioned rogues gemming for +hit, druids gemming for other stats as an example.

    Druids will be as viable main tanks as the three other tanks for all encounters though a particular tank class may make particular encounters a little easier. Crushing blows are being removed.

    Also there is no dual paw action.

    danx on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Much less lame title as well. Well, still lame, but at least it doesn't perpetuate the resto4lyfe thingy

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    danx wrote: »
    WOTLK: Rogues will share gear with ferals, at least for non tier gear. This gear may itemised to be sufficient to cap +hit for ferals. A blue mentioned rogues gemming for +hit, druids gemming for other stats as an example.

    We'll share gear, but that doesn't mean there won't be pieces designed specifically for Druids to use, as well. Especially in regards to tanking.

    I mean, if Tier 7 was the first chance at actual tanking leather, we'd never get to tank raids until T8.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • FodderFodder Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Much less lame title as well. Well, still lame, but at least it doesn't perpetuate the resto4lyfe thingy
    I was going to be all indignant about this, but then I looked at your sig and it was all better.

    Fodder on
    steam_sig.png
  • EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Much less lame title as well. Well, still lame, but at least it doesn't perpetuate the resto4lyfe thingy

    No one supports the Green party.

    EvilBadman on
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Much less lame title as well. Well, still lame, but at least it doesn't perpetuate the resto4lyfe thingy

    No one supports the Green party.

    That's because Nader was overpowered and needed a nerf.

    Ok I'm done.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I would be okay if the tanking "flavors" were:

    Warrior: High physical mitigation
    Death Knight: High magical mitigation
    Paladin: High aoe threat
    Druid: High single-target threat

    Though I guess druids would be the best-off in this, and paladins the worst. You can always get healers to go for more healing/second at the sacrifice of longevity, and make up for it with shorter boss fights through being able to bring more DPS to bear. For warriors or DKs, maybe you can drop a healer to pick up another DPS... but only for fights that match your class. But, for paladins... my gut feeling is that they won't be jamming in a lot of bosses that need to be multi-tanked. For some you might be able to swap out two warriors for one paladin, but for most you probably won't.

    Garthor on
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I didn't mean to imply it'd all be the same and there'd be no pieces optimised for dps/tanking or variations within stats for different roles just that we'd share (some) gear because they're making gear more appealing to both classes.

    If you're putting stuff like this in the OP it might be best to say druids will share gear with other classes because the same will apply to resto/moonkin.

    danx on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I don't understand how high single target threat would be a good thing.

    If I'm in a 5-man, I usually have 3-4 mobs to deal with (assuming no CC is available), and in a raid situation I'd rather have more survivability than more threat. Unless you think they'll be putting in some sort of fight where other tanks can't generate enough threat.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    I don't understand how high single target threat would be a good thing.

    If I'm in a 5-man, I usually have 3-4 mobs to deal with (assuming no CC is available), and in a raid situation I'd rather have more survivability than more threat. Unless you think they'll be putting in some sort of fight where other tanks can't generate enough threat.

    Well, with the removal of blessing of salvation, some classes are going to have to worry about pulling threat, I guess. So, the less they have to worry about that the more they can all out DPS.

    Inquisitor on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    I don't understand how high single target threat would be a good thing.

    If I'm in a 5-man, I usually have 3-4 mobs to deal with (assuming no CC is available), and in a raid situation I'd rather have more survivability than more threat. Unless you think they'll be putting in some sort of fight where other tanks can't generate enough threat.

    Well, with the removal of blessing of salvation, some classes are going to have to worry about pulling threat, I guess. So, the less they have to worry about that the more they can all out DPS.

    Wait, Salvation is gone?

    Ok that makes a bit more sense now. I hadn't read the Paladin updates.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Wait, Salvation is gone?

    Ok that makes a bit more sense now. I hadn't read the Paladin updates.

    Decided to double check just to make sure I wasn't spreading misinformation. Looks like it got changed into a rather different move:

    Blessing of Salvation renamed Hand of Salvation, now reduces total threat on the target by 2% per second for 10 seconds. 2 Minute Cooldown. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.

    Inquisitor on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Wait, Salvation is gone?

    Ok that makes a bit more sense now. I hadn't read the Paladin updates.

    Decided to double check just to make sure I wasn't spreading misinformation. Looks like it got changed into a rather different move:

    Blessing of Salvation renamed Hand of Salvation, now reduces total threat on the target by 2% per second for 10 seconds. 2 Minute Cooldown. Only one Hand spell can be on the target per paladin at any one time. Now costs 6% of base mana.

    Wow that's a hell of a nerf.

    Having high threat doesn't seem so bad now.

    Although I'd still like to be able to keep it on 2-3 at a time.

    This reminds me. Anyone in the beta, can you confirm if swipe breaks CC? They were gonna do that last patch but it didn't actually go through for some reason, if I recall.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2008
    They did it for several skills, but only Avenger's Shield kept it.

    High threat is very good in any fight requiring a berserk timer.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    No one has mentioned the awesomeness that is democats?

    I can just picture a cat druid with a nuke strapped to its back tearing into the enemy base.

    Dhalphir on
  • WillisIVIIXWillisIVIIX Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »

    Balance
    -Roots work indoors now.
    -Thorns scale with spell damage (7%)
    -Moonkin Form no longer gets mana back on melee, but has a chance to return 2% of your max mana on spell crits.
    -Treants have a pet bar.
    -Nature's Reach reduces threat.
    -Hurricane no longer has a cooldown. Higher ranks reduces melee/ranged/casting speed by 50%.

    Fixed, maybe not worded correctly but w/e. Rumor from those in beta is that the new Elune's Grace procs at a 95-99% on crits, although I've seen a blue response that they feel they went over board on Moonkins new improved mana regen tricks.

    WillisIVIIX on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I keep reading "Democats" as "Demoocats"...

    Anyway, it looks like they're going to be taking away the bear's huge armor in Wotlk, giving that to Warriors, and giving bears even more stam based on what the blue's implying right now. I guess it makes sense, because it lessens the need for bonus armor on leather melee gear making it that much more uniform. It doesn't sound like a good tradeoff to me, but I hope they make it work. I mean needing better geared healers to heal you because you take more damage than any other tank doesn't sound like a good tradeoff to me. With this and the moonkin changes I'm glad I decided to level Balance.

    Opty on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Opty wrote: »
    I keep reading "Democats" as "Demoocats"...

    Anyway, it looks like they're going to be taking away the bear's huge armor in Wotlk, giving that to Warriors, and giving bears even more stam based on what the blue's implying right now. I guess it makes sense, because it lessens the need for bonus armor on leather melee gear making it that much more uniform. It doesn't sound like a good tradeoff to me, but I hope they make it work. I mean needing better geared healers to heal you because you take more damage than any other tank doesn't sound like a good tradeoff to me. With this and the moonkin changes I'm glad I decided to level Balance.

    I can get behind this only if I can get an absolutely absurd amount of health. Having really shitty armor wouldn't bother me at all (bears are mostly meat anyway) but I need totally obscene amounts of stamina to make up for it. Here's an example, with totally made up numbers.

    Warrior tanks, lets say... Prince.
    Prince hits the warrior for 10k, Warriors gear and abilities whittle that down to 2k, taking him down 10% of his 20kish health.

    A druid (in my make-believe example) would simply take all 10k of damage. However, that would also reduce them by 10% health, as they would have like 100k health.

    Obviously this would never happen as written, but you kind of get where I'm going with it.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It seems like they want Druids to have the same ammount of armor as a Warrior/Paladin and with crushing blows taken out of raids massive HP pools won't be nearly as neccessary for a Druid.

    815165 on
  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Isn't a lot of their reference to warriors extra high melee damage mitigation coming from bigger (and crit) block amounts? I remember hearing people talk about 2k+ crit blocks or some such. So we don't necessarily need to end up with a ton less armor to put them on top for mitigation.

    Ranlin on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2008
    Armor is kinda needed because we're not getting the mitigation that warriors and paladins get through blocking. If our armor and HP are around the same as those classes, we'd have to get something to compensate. We don't really have the dodge in Wrath, and we don't have the flat-out damage reduction Defensive Stance and Righteous Fury have.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Except in their most recent "state of tanking" post, the blue says the following:
    If druids had gigantic health pools but lower mitigation and avoidance than a warrior, that would be tanking flavor. It would mean you heal the bears a little different -- they might drain more mana, but the damage would be more predictable. In really long fights, the warrior might have an advantage. In a fight where a boss hit quickly for less damage per hit, the warrior might have an advantage. In fights with periods of really big damage, the druid might have an advantage. In magic fights where armor was less of a factor, the druid might have an advantage. This is just an example. Our overriding concern is making sure the tanks have the tools, threat and mitigation they need to tank. A secondary concern is making sure they don't feel too similar.

    This doesn't mean that this will happen, but it does lend weight into the direction of it happening moreso than not. I'm not going to truly worry until the game ships and something's wrong, but as of right now Moonkin's much more well off than feral and thus why I'm happy I decided over a year ago to level balance.

    Opty on
  • TheEmergedTheEmerged Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well, my druid alt hit 60 this morning, and my main ground dailies to get his +100% mount. He hit the magic mark a little after 5 days 1 hour played, my best to-sixty time yet. I'm sure that's pathetic compared to some of you :P In any event, tomorrow he starts HFP and the quest to become my 2nd 70.

    He's also already Honored with Cenarion Expedition, but can't really benefit from it for 2 levels.

    TheEmerged on
    Sometimes, the knights are the monsters
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2008
    Savage Roar is now +35% attack power.

    And, since someone might get confused, Imp. Mark of the Wild is fucking up Savage Roar's tooltip. It's 35%, not 41% or whatever you might see.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • AnialosAnialos Collies are love, Collies are life! Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Anialos on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Anialos wrote: »
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Did you miss:
    Glyph of Starfire - Your Starfall ability increases the duration of your Moonfire effect on the target by 3 sec.
    ?

    Many of us assume that the description is meant to read Starfire, since that's the name of the glyph, and it would be silly to have Starfall increase the duration of Moonfire.

    But anyways, that could mean a nearly permanent moonfire dot, without having to cast moonfire itself, and combine that with the moonfire glyph that boosts the DoT damage by 75%, and that becomes incredibly awesome.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    man with all these changes I'll have to reactivate my account once these are implemented on live servers.

    ghost_master2000 on
  • AnialosAnialos Collies are love, Collies are life! Shadowbrook ColliesRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Anialos wrote: »
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Did you miss:
    Glyph of Starfire - Your Starfall ability increases the duration of your Moonfire effect on the target by 3 sec.
    ?

    Many of us assume that the description is meant to read Starfire, since that's the name of the glyph, and it would be silly to have Starfall increase the duration of Moonfire.

    But anyways, that could mean a nearly permanent moonfire dot, without having to cast moonfire itself, and combine that with the moonfire glyph that boosts the DoT damage by 75%, and that becomes incredibly awesome.

    Why yes good sir...that was my hope and dream...may I give you hugs and kisses in the most manly and not homoerotic way for bringing joy to my otherwise dismal life? For indeed, except for PvP (lulz), the moonfire and starfire glyph combination would cause me to become quite aroused.

    Anialos on
  • SpongeCakeSpongeCake Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Anialos wrote: »
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Did you miss:
    Glyph of Starfire - Your Starfall ability increases the duration of your Moonfire effect on the target by 3 sec.
    ?

    Many of us assume that the description is meant to read Starfire, since that's the name of the glyph, and it would be silly to have Starfall increase the duration of Moonfire.

    But anyways, that could mean a nearly permanent moonfire dot, without having to cast moonfire itself, and combine that with the moonfire glyph that boosts the DoT damage by 75%, and that becomes incredibly awesome.

    Holy shit I hadn't even considered that.

    I bet Moonkin are going to be crawling out of the woodwork when WotLK hits.

    SpongeCake on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Like me, I'll be crawling, because I'll probably be doing lots of tanking on my DK, and I've been feral for so long.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Going to suck seeing more moonkin around. Only the stupid and the awesome play them now. I don't want everyone playing them. There's a unique element of humor when you run into one, whether I'm playing mine or another char. You see a mage and it's like, "...," but you see a moonkin and it's like, "lol moonkin that's awesome." People are going to dilute the fantastic nature of it all.

    Fuck fotm moonkin.

    FightTest on
    MOBA DOTA.
  • SpongeCakeSpongeCake Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I feel a little silly when I realise that I'm annoyed that Moonkin are going to become popular, but it doesn't make me any less annoyed.

    SpongeCake on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So they are going to revamp Feral tanking to crap all armour, loads of health? I'm all for innovative ideas that makes tanking more distinctive for each class, yet still useful and fun but this sounds like a pretty radical change and I don't trust them to pull it off, not after last Beta/Expansion crap

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The point in that is so we get to use more rogue gear, and rogue gear isn't loaded up on armor.

    Someone in the EJ forums mentioned that one possibility is that with the new heavy downranking penalties, healing may shift to be a bit more reactive, so that you aren't wasting as much of a heal, and reactive healing favors a larger health pool

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Reactive healing.... -.-


    Tank took damage



    Heal damage


    Tank took damage



    Heal damage




    Yes, that is both entertaining, and takes skill to perform....


    -.-


    I'm glad my Feral Druid and Enhance Shaman are coming along nicely.

    Also, lolret.

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I'm not getting the cut of your jib. The difference is that before, you spam heals at a lower rank regardless, and now you start winding up heals and maybe cancel them early if the tank doesn't need it yet. If anything, that requires more thought and skill.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    The point in that is so we get to use more rogue gear, and rogue gear isn't loaded up on armor.

    Someone in the EJ forums mentioned that one possibility is that with the new heavy downranking penalties, healing may shift to be a bit more reactive, so that you aren't wasting as much of a heal, and reactive healing favors a larger health pool

    My other theory is that they'll just crank the armor bonus from bear form up really high.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Sign In or Register to comment.