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[WoW] Druid Thread: CLOSED FOR FLEA SPRAYING

1356762

Posts

  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Just two DKs would do. One is just close enough for the first death grip, another is just close enough to the first DK to death grip again, and then hits hungering cold to freeze the bear.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I'm not really 100% on how all the DK mechanics work but... Freeze? is that like ice nova or ice trap?

    Cause if it's just a root I'd just double click the bear form button and charge them.

    Regardless, if it takes that much effort just to get past me to cap a flag, then I consider my job successful. That's less time for them to be harassing everyone else.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hungering Cold is like freezing trap. They also have a really good snare that roots you for a second, and then starts giving you back movement every second, from 10% to 20% to 30% etc. But yeah, I mentioned hungering cold because they'd just shift out of chains of ice.

    But really, that wouldn't be a whole lot of effort for 2 DKs, when 2 or 3 of other classes would have a hell of a time taking on a berserked bear, mangling and mauling three people at once.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The DK's are there to deathgrip the druid away from the capping group, then use stuff like chains of ice/frost trap/scare beast/death coil

    Death Coil isn't a fear. Druids can probably shift out of Chains of Ice.

    EDIT: DK Death Coil isn't a fear, rather.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2008
    Anyone else jealous of all the hunter love?

    I know I am.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    having played only hunters druids and rogues i think we're all getting buffed pretty good.

    ghost_master2000 on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    SpongeCake wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Anialos wrote: »
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Did you miss:
    Glyph of Starfire - Your Starfall ability increases the duration of your Moonfire effect on the target by 3 sec.
    ?

    Many of us assume that the description is meant to read Starfire, since that's the name of the glyph, and it would be silly to have Starfall increase the duration of Moonfire.

    But anyways, that could mean a nearly permanent moonfire dot, without having to cast moonfire itself, and combine that with the moonfire glyph that boosts the DoT damage by 75%, and that becomes incredibly awesome.

    Holy shit I hadn't even considered that.

    I bet Moonkin are going to be crawling out of the woodwork when WotLK hits.

    i think it is far more likely that it simply makes moonfire last 3 seconds longer than standard, else it would use some sort of "refreshes the duration" wording

    Dhalphir on
  • ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    SpongeCake wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Anialos wrote: »
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Did you miss:
    Glyph of Starfire - Your Starfall ability increases the duration of your Moonfire effect on the target by 3 sec.
    ?

    Many of us assume that the description is meant to read Starfire, since that's the name of the glyph, and it would be silly to have Starfall increase the duration of Moonfire.

    But anyways, that could mean a nearly permanent moonfire dot, without having to cast moonfire itself, and combine that with the moonfire glyph that boosts the DoT damage by 75%, and that becomes incredibly awesome.

    Holy shit I hadn't even considered that.

    I bet Moonkin are going to be crawling out of the woodwork when WotLK hits.

    i think it is far more likely that it simply makes moonfire last 3 seconds longer than standard, else it would use some sort of "refreshes the duration" wording

    but it doesn't refresh the duration, it only adds 3 seconds to it, so say you finish casting starfire when the moonfire dot has 1 second left, it would then have 4 seconds left, so as long as you were able to cast starfire before the dot was finished you could keep adding 3 seconds on to the existing duration.

    however, based on the poorly worded talent and ability descriptions all over the place it could be that it only adds the 3 seconds one time, or it could be that you could infinitely add the 3 seconds on there.

    if it could infinitely add 3 seconds on to it would you just throw moonfire on them, then alternate starfire and wrath with maybe insect swarm thrown in there too?

    ghost_master2000 on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    SpongeCake wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Anialos wrote: »
    Wow...i don't see a single glyph that would benefit the way I play boomkin at all...SUCK :(

    Did you miss:
    Glyph of Starfire - Your Starfall ability increases the duration of your Moonfire effect on the target by 3 sec.
    ?

    Many of us assume that the description is meant to read Starfire, since that's the name of the glyph, and it would be silly to have Starfall increase the duration of Moonfire.

    But anyways, that could mean a nearly permanent moonfire dot, without having to cast moonfire itself, and combine that with the moonfire glyph that boosts the DoT damage by 75%, and that becomes incredibly awesome.

    Holy shit I hadn't even considered that.

    I bet Moonkin are going to be crawling out of the woodwork when WotLK hits.

    i think it is far more likely that it simply makes moonfire last 3 seconds longer than standard, else it would use some sort of "refreshes the duration" wording

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but when a spell refreshes the duration of another spell, the refreshed spell goes back to it's full duration. So, if you cast a 15 sec DoT on a mob and let it run down to 1 second of duration at which point you cast a spell which refreshes the duration, the refreshed spell goes back to having 15 seconds of duration. Whereas Starfire/Starfall will only add 3 seconds to the duration of Moonfire, but does so every time you cast the refreshing spell. Atleast that's how I think it works.

    Also, does anyone know if the Hunter Tranquilizing Shot removes Berserk?

    reVerse on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    On the plus side.

    Think about it in PVP.

    You'd be able to defend a flag single-handed for AGES.

    That's somehow different from Feral Druids on live servers?

    More AGES. MORE@@!@#!@$!@!@!

    ...sorry I spazzed out for a moment.

    In strange aeons, even bare durids may die.

    Also, glee: I finally got a badge of tenacity! A guildie found one on the AH for 1045g, knew that I'd been looking for one for ages, and COD'd it to me.

    Echo on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yes, I hear that Tranq Shot does dispell Berserk.

    Opty on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Opty wrote: »
    Yes, I hear that Tranq Shot does dispell Berserk.

    Buuullshiiit(not as in I don't believe you).

    This would kind of go against the trend that Blizzard has been following recently with making more key abilities immune to dispel, except this can only be dispelled by one class, but by any and all members of that long-range class, and on a much longer cooldown which gets totally wasted upon a hunter shooting a shot at you.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    Yes, I hear that Tranq Shot does dispell Berserk.

    Buuullshiiit(not as in I don't believe you).

    This would kind of go against the trend that Blizzard has been following recently with making more key abilities immune to dispel, except this can only be dispelled by one class, but by any and all members of that long-range class, and on a much longer cooldown which gets totally wasted upon a hunter shooting a shot at you.

    I'm guessing they'll change that.

    Or maybe it still counts as an enrage and should be a frenzy or something.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I don't like this at all: (from WorldofRaids.com)

    Blue:
    "Fortunately there are plenty of ways to give bears the armor they need -- through talents (like the crit resistance one) or through Dire Bear form itself for example. Even if another tanking class ends up having slightly more armor than a druid, the differences should be so minor that neither of you is at a significant disadvantage on a boss."

    WTH? Are they changing things up for tanks this much? Or is this guy just bad at phrasing answers to questions in a non-alarmist manner?

    Bigity on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Just bad at phrasing I think. And remember, one of the downside of burrs was crushings, which have been removed.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So, if we have less armor than, say, a Warrior, and we can't parry or block and there's no defense on our leather gear for increased miss chance, we're not at an disadvantage? And wasn't our dodge from agility nerfed, or was that crit?

    reVerse on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    All this talk has totally turned me off resubbing for the expansion. If they are going to fuck with the fundamentals of bare tanking then I'm going to give it a few months to bed in before I even think about it again. Their incompetence around the last expansion was one reason why I quit

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    There's no point in crying over the max level tanks considering they haven't actually done any work on them yet.

    815165 on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Dodge.

    The big concern we're all having is the armor though I think.

    I know we've only seen up to level 77 gear in beta, but every time someone brings up feral tanking concerns they just give the 'everyone will be able to tank' speech again.

    I can see their dilemma though. All of our gear is going to be focusing on the same stats as rogues now. If they crank up the armor on some pieces, rogues end up getting way more armor than normal. And making seperate druid leather that has more armor and less roguey stats completely goes against this whole kick of theirs to condense how many types of gear there will be.

    They're going to have to crank up the armor bonus from bear form to fix it. For some reason they are reluctant to do this it seems though.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Kalkino wrote: »
    All this talk has totally turned me off resubbing for the expansion. If they are going to fuck with the fundamentals of bare tanking then I'm going to give it a few months to bed in before I even think about it again. Their incompetence around the last expansion was one reason why I quit

    You mean the last expansion which turned druids into a viable tank instead of a token offspec joke that people brought one of for loot purposes in 40 mans?

    Blizzard is dumb as hell but complaining about how they're screwing up feral tanking and then saying TBC is why you quit doesn't make any sense.

    FightTest on
    MOBA DOTA.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    All of our gear is going to be focusing on the same stats as rogues now. If they crank up the armor on some pieces, rogues end up getting way more armor than normal.
    Everyone seems to be forgetting about tier gear. People need to stop worrying about the numbers because they havent been worked on yet and are very easily fixed.

    815165 on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    All of our gear is going to be focusing on the same stats as rogues now. If they crank up the armor on some pieces, rogues end up getting way more armor than normal.
    Everyone seems to be forgetting about tier gear. People need to stop worrying about the numbers because they havent been worked on yet and are very easily fixed.

    Yeah, but what about before we get to Tier gear? What if while wearing your standard pre-raid blues Feral Druids suck so bad at raid tanking that there's no point in bringing one along so that eventually he can have his great, marvelous Tier gear and be a decent tank?

    reVerse on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    All of our gear is going to be focusing on the same stats as rogues now. If they crank up the armor on some pieces, rogues end up getting way more armor than normal.
    Everyone seems to be forgetting about tier gear. People need to stop worrying about the numbers because they havent been worked on yet and are very easily fixed.

    Let me put it this way.

    How are you going to get that Tier gear, if you can't tank the raid until you have the aforementioned Tier gear. It's a catch 22.

    I shouldn't need the drop from a boss to tank said boss.

    Here's the full comment on armor from the blue tracker:
    Armor is one of the most important stats a tank can have. We aren't trying to keep bears from getting it.

    The change to itemization was done solely to avoid having so much diversity in the items we could drop. It's lame when you're leveling up to keep seeing quest rewards that are itemized for your spec (which TBH is still a problem we haven't solved for Feral weapons and idols). It's lame when your raid kills a boss and he drops say elemental mail, healing leather, and a spellpower mace, none of which your group can use. Having bears, cats and rogues all desire the same leather drops isn't a panacea -- it helps some problems, but it creates others. Having bears run around with as much armor as a rogue would be a big, big problem.

    Fortunately there are plenty of ways to give bears the armor they need -- through talents (like the crit resistance one) or through Dire Bear form itself for example. Even if another tanking class ends up having slightly more armor than a druid, the differences should be so minor that neither of you is at a significant disadvantage on a boss.

    I am glad someone mentioned the hunter example. I am really hoping you guys have the same reaction when you see the next pass on druid talents.

    Like I said, I'm betting bear form armor bonus will go up. Maybe an increase to the Armor talent too.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Pre-raid blues are catered to classes, too, that's why there's dungeon sets in the first place. Considering Ferals are great tanks now why are people terrified that Blizzard will totally forget how they made them good tanks in the first place?

    Stop the alarmist bullshit or take it to the mmo-champion.com forums or something.

    815165 on
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    If the armor bonus is going up, how can they anticipate that another tank class will have more armor though?

    We get the massive armor and dodge because we can't parry or block.

    I'm not firing up torches and grabbing the pitchforks, but I am a little more wide-eyed after comments like the one made above by blue.

    Bigity on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    FightTest wrote: »
    Kalkino wrote: »
    All this talk has totally turned me off resubbing for the expansion. If they are going to fuck with the fundamentals of bare tanking then I'm going to give it a few months to bed in before I even think about it again. Their incompetence around the last expansion was one reason why I quit

    You mean the last expansion which turned druids into a viable tank instead of a token offspec joke that people brought one of for loot purposes in 40 mans?

    Blizzard is dumb as hell but complaining about how they're screwing up feral tanking and then saying TBC is why you quit doesn't make any sense.

    I played feral raid tank from the start of 06 through to about 3 months into the first expansion and it was ok - it was mainly the gear that was the issue, assuming you could find a guild that was ok with non prot tanks. It had been a perfectly viable 5 man/raid tank spec since 1.8 (iirc) in late 2005. My main issue was fighting over gear in raids, but then we had a fucked up class priority loot system that effectively allowed the shittest DPS warrior take useful tanking epix over a regular raid tank feral.

    Don't get me wrong, they did a fair bit of cool stuff - made feral gear easier to get for non AQ/PVP gods for one - as well as making it "ok" in the eyes of most people for ferals to tank (same for Paladins) - but it was how they implemented it - the radical fucking about with threat mechanics + the nerf to health and AC (?) right at the last minute was what killed it for me - then their "fix"

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    Pre-raid blues are catered to classes, too, that's why there's dungeon sets in the first place.

    Oh yeah, I totally tanked in Moonglade set, which is a healer set with tiny amounts of strength and agility thrown in to make it "hybrid-y". Like, totally. Yeah. That was amazing tanking itemization, there. All that +healing and spirit and no extra armor really came in handy when I was tanking. Like, I can't believe how anyone could ever replace such awesome tanking gear.

    reVerse on
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I'm sorry, but reVerse just made the post of the day.

    Bigity on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    There were some decent quest rewards with a bit of extra armor though.

    Yeah, moonglade set sucked.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Pre-raid blues are catered to classes, too, that's why there's dungeon sets in the first place.

    Oh yeah, I totally tanked in Moonglade set, which is a healer set with tiny amounts of strength and agility thrown in to make it "hybrid-y". Like, totally. Yeah. That was amazing tanking itemization, there. All that +healing and spirit and no extra armor really came in handy when I was tanking. Like, I can't believe how anyone could ever replace such awesome tanking gear.
    What I was saying is that there are plenty of oppertunities to fill gear gaps pre-raid, and that the whole crying over whether you'll get a raid spot as a feral tank is pointless when there is no level 80 content available yet, and that you somehow managed to find raid spots in TBC.

    What in the expansion raid content have you seen that wont allow you to tank it? Or are you just crying on a forum that most likely wont be read by anyone who could do anything about your concerns?

    Why don't you go to the beta forums and post your experiences from tanking Azjol-Nerub and how you feel Feral tanking has taken a turn in the wrong direction based on your experience of the 70-77 content?

    815165 on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wait, the Blues read the beta forums this time around? They sure as fuck didn't last time, or if they did they promptly ignored every and all bit of constructive feedback given

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Wait, the Blues read the beta forums this time around? They sure as fuck didn't last time, or if they did they promptly ignored every and all bit of constructive feedback given

    Actually, they are listening this time. I believe someone made a suggestion that Feral Swiftness should be active indoors aswell, and then a blue replied that they're gonna do that. So, there's some hope.

    However, since I'm a pessimist and Blizzard's game designers are a bunch of Warrior loving bumfuckers, I doubt it spells good things for Ferals as far as PvE is concerned (there seems to be a bunch of improvements for them on the PvP side, though).

    edit: Also, 815165, I'm speculating here as any reasonable person might've guessed, I'm not in the beta. I wasn't aware that you have to be in it to talk about it. But since you're obviously in it, and your Feral Druid is doing a-okay tanking instances, why don't you tell us a little about it to put our minds at ease rather than going all "I'm sure everything will be alright", since you obviously have some first hard information from your very own beta Druid.

    reVerse on
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yeah, they do. Ghostcrawler and Koraa post regularly in almost all forums. Some other devs pop in from time to time too.

    As for tank gear, I think they're waiting for 80 before they do anything with pre 80 gear. i.e. they want to test it out in raids and level 80 instances, see if things work the way they expect and then work on pre 80 gear. If this was live that wouldn't fly but it's not.

    They're also waiting for 80 for threat balancing and they're also still working on our talents. Don't jump to conclusions, it's still early days.

    danx on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    But jumping to conclusions and speculating all kinds of crazy things is the most fun part of waiting for a new expansion. I mean, y'know, unless you're in the beta like 815165 is, then playing the beta of the expansion becomes the most fun part of it.

    reVerse on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    What I was saying is that there are plenty of oppertunities to fill gear gaps pre-raid, and that the whole crying over whether you'll get a raid spot as a feral tank is pointless when there is no level 80 content available yet, and that you somehow managed to find raid spots in TBC.

    Ok, this right here.

    There WERE plenty of opportunities, in TBC. In Wrath they are specifically going out of their way to make ferals and rogues use the same gear.

    When I started tanking dungeons and raiding in TBC, I was using quest rewards with more armor and crafted stuff like heavy clefthoof. Hell, I'm STILL using the damn heavy clefthoof chestpiece.

    Now imagine going into tanking in TBC, only pretend that all those nice tanky quest rewards and crafted pieces were never there. All that was there was rogue gear. You think you would have been tanking Kara? Heroics?

    We understand that things only go to 77 right now and that they could add a TON of new stuff in the endgame content. But we know for a fact they still want us to share drops with rogues, and we're not seeing anything to make up the armor difference yet (let alone the stamina). I'd say we're allowed to show some concern. They are making major changes to how our tanking mechanics work and they have a history of fucking things up when it comes to druids. We're uneasy.

    And if I was in the beta I would be bringing this up to Blizzard, but I'm not, so I can't.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    edit: Also, 815165, I'm speculating here as any reasonable person might've guessed, I'm not in the beta. I wasn't aware that you have to be in it to talk about it. But since you're obviously in it, and your Feral Druid is doing a-okay tanking instances, why don't you tell us a little about it to put our minds at ease rather than going all "I'm sure everything will be alright", since you obviously have some first hard information from your very own beta Druid.
    What I'm saying is if you're going to speculate it's totally possible to do it without resorting to mmo-champion/official wow forums style baseless scare mongering as it's just going to give people the wrong impression of things, plus it's irritating to read.

    Personally I've had no problems at all (aside from overgearing the first few instances) so far (level 76 right now), Berserk is a good addition though I'd like a slightly shorter cooldown and Rend and Tear is a crappy talent but Druids havent had their second talent pass yet.
    I'm not worried about the raid content because any problems with Druids not having enough mitigation or avoidance are things they can change by playing with the numbers later, something they've said they always leave till last.
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Ok, this right here.

    There WERE plenty of opportunities, etc.
    Worrying about the ammount of armor you'll have at 80 isn't a big concern for me right now, it's just a few numbers for them to play with here and there and it's sorted, they'll get more than enough feedback to have it done.

    815165 on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Quoting myself from the rogue thread...
    "blue has said that druids will be able to share gear with rogues."


    It doesn't say "Rogues and Druids will share all gear." There is, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be gear that's clearly aimed at one class or the other.

    At least, that's the way I see it.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    But it's Blizzard who's doing all the scaremongering by saying crazy, scary things like "Feral Druids might have less armor than other tanks". I mean, big health pool and ginormous amount of armor, that's been our niche since the beginning and now they're taking it away! It's scary!

    Also, one might imagine that Rend and Tear is a crappy talent for tanking since it reads like a DPS/PvP talent.

    reVerse on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    He uses the exact words "This is just an example." in that same post, though, they haven't sorted out the max level tanks because there aren't any, yet.

    I'm not even a fan of Rend and Tear for DPS, either, for such a late talent in the tree it's totally skippable for all PVE and that's what dissapoints me, though this may be because I don't PVP.

    815165 on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well personally I can't wait for it. It's actually gonna make Ferocious Bite worth using. "Hi there mister clothie caster man, how 'bout some nasty tasty 80% crit chance Ferocious Bite for you."

    reVerse on
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