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[WoW] Druid Thread: CLOSED FOR FLEA SPRAYING

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Posts

  • SpongeCakeSpongeCake Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.

    I currently melee warriors up to full mana with my tank staff when I play 2v2 as moonkin. I'll be a sad horribly mutated chicken when that's gone :(

    holy crap are you serious? I could never really get the mana regen thing to work for me very well when I tried out moonkin.

    I bought myself an Earthwarden for when the occasion arose. I remember a 2v2 Arena match with me and some Holy Paladin left standing. I was out of mana and he was... well, lasting forever as you'd expect. The melee mana regen was the only reason I managed to survive and win.
    That is however, literally the only time that I've ever gotten any reasonable use out of the mechanic.

    SpongeCake on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Three changes, it looks like, one for each tree:

    They've changed how cat form energy regen works: outside of form it fills at the same speed it does in form, and what Furor does now is allows you to keep up to 40 of that regenned energy. This means powershifting's gone, since shifting in and out doesn't add energy like it does now. But I think that's a good thing, because then they can design around no powershifting and make cats in general more powerful than needing to rely on powershifting.

    Second and third change is gleaned from the buff consolidation list: Imp Moonkin Aura looks to be changing to a flat 3% haste buff for both types and Tree's turning into 3% increased healing, both raidwide.

    Opty on
  • FodderFodder Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I kind of like that they're trying to get rid of powershifting since it always seemed like much more of an exploit than a fun new mechanic, so I'm glad they've changed something.

    Fodder on
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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Opty wrote: »
    Three changes, it looks like, one for each tree:

    They've changed how cat form energy regen works: outside of form it fills at the same speed it does in form, and what Furor does now is allows you to keep up to 40 of that regenned energy. This means powershifting's gone, since shifting in and out doesn't add energy like it does now. But I think that's a good thing, because then they can design around no powershifting and make cats in general more powerful than needing to rely on powershifting.

    Second and third change is gleaned from the buff consolidation list: Imp Moonkin Aura looks to be changing to a flat 3% haste buff for both types and Tree's turning into 3% increased healing, both raidwide.

    Powershifting sucks and I'm glad to see it gone, but I'm a bit confused about that first statement. Initially in the recent build, you were regening energy while in caster form, and if you regened up to 80 and shifted in to cat form, you'd be at 80, or 82 without furor, and 100 with furor. Are you saying that energy is ticking while in caster form, but you get none of it when you shift back into cat unless you have furor?

    And I'm not sure how I like the moonkin aura change. How will it stack with other buffs? 3% doesn't even remotely compare to windfury and totem of wrath, is it intended to be paired with those and overridden by them? Even if it's not, I generally much prefer proc buffs than static ones.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The current way energy is working is the new Furor half implemented. Energy will continue to tick like that, yes, but only Furor is supposed to let you access it, so if you have no furor it's just as it is now where you start at 0, but if you do have Furor it's only still like it is now if you stay out of cat form for 4 seconds.

    And the moonkin aura is listed on a different buff slot than what you mentioned, so that means it stacks with everything you said (and remember it's not just spell haste or just melee haste like the ones you mentioned, but haste for everything). The only thing it doesn't stack with is a fully 3 point Ret Pally's Swift Retribution. Also note that the base Moonkin Aura, if it's there, will override part of its shared buff which is the Ele Shaman's Elemental Oath which only gives 2% crit (but the 2% less mana won't be overridden).

    Opty on
  • FodderFodder Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    A good comparison I read was that new furor is more like tactical mastery that lets warriors keep rage when changing stances rather than giving you energy to change forms.

    Fodder on
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  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.

    I currently melee warriors up to full mana with my tank staff when I play 2v2 as moonkin. I'll be a sad horribly mutated chicken when that's gone :(

    holy crap are you serious? I could never really get the mana regen thing to work for me very well when I tried out moonkin.

    Yes, I do it to warlocks that like to leave their pets on me full-time as well. Backpedaling around a pillar while meleeing a pet is huge amounts of mana. It's not actually as cool if you're just swinging away with a caster weapon (~80 mana per swing with a caster mace,) but switch to a staff with a bunch of feral AP, and you're really in business. I use a wildfury greatstaff for the extra mitigation, it returns 350-400 mana per swing, AND provides an extra 15% damage reduction.

    Ryokaze on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hmm, the side benefit of these buff/debuff changes means you get a much easier to manage balance tree(at least in 10/25 mans). You basically don't need earth and moon anymore because it seems fairly likely that you'll have a warlock or an unholy DK. Imp Faerie Fire alone, without even considering other players, might not be worth it because it will be spell hit only, and then you may have a shadow priest to cover that. Improved Moonkin aura is probably still worth getting because the buff itself is quite nice, is only covered by ret pallies, and does'nt require a GCD to gain like iFF does.

    I think this would be a good spec.

    Then you get to take owlkin frenzy(because it looks fun) and master shapeshifter. I put furor in there because a recent blue post says it will grant 2% intellect per point for moonkin form.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    Ryokaze wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Why do they still have the moonkin form AP increase on those things? They got rid of the bloody retarded "melee and gain mana based on your AP" mechanic.

    I currently melee warriors up to full mana with my tank staff when I play 2v2 as moonkin. I'll be a sad horribly mutated chicken when that's gone :(

    holy crap are you serious? I could never really get the mana regen thing to work for me very well when I tried out moonkin.

    Yes, I do it to warlocks that like to leave their pets on me full-time as well. Backpedaling around a pillar while meleeing a pet is huge amounts of mana. It's not actually as cool if you're just swinging away with a caster weapon (~80 mana per swing with a caster mace,) but switch to a staff with a bunch of feral AP, and you're really in business. I use a wildfury greatstaff for the extra mitigation, it returns 350-400 mana per swing, AND provides an extra 15% damage reduction.

    Ahh see that's what the problem was. I was just using a caster staff and not switching to my tanking staff with feral AP on it.

    ghost_master2000 on
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Unless I misunderstood it looks like they've changed furor again. Now you get to keep all the energy you had when you switch fully talented. Will we still regenerate energy in other forms?

    danx on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yep. So you use all your energy, shift out and cast heals for 10 seconds, shift back in and have 100 energy.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Sweet. That's much better than 40 instant energy we have on live now.

    danx on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    danx wrote: »
    Sweet. That's much better than 40 instant energy we have on live now.

    Yeah, and it (still) kills powershifting too.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Probably. There's a chance that it could be a dps increase to get to 0 energy, shift to bear form and enrage for +15% damage and shift back after 9 seconds.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Probably. There's a chance that it could be a dps increase to get to 0 energy, shift to bear form and enrage for +15% damage and shift back after 9 seconds.

    Ah, hadn't thought of that. They could...um...block energy regen in bear form or something. I dunno.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    End wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Probably. There's a chance that it could be a dps increase to get to 0 energy, shift to bear form and enrage for +15% damage and shift back after 9 seconds.

    Ah, hadn't thought of that. They could...um...block energy regen in bear form or something. I dunno.

    Why is that a problem? I mean, what's the cooldown on enrage? 5 minutes? 10?

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Probably. There's a chance that it could be a dps increase to get to 0 energy, shift to bear form and enrage for +15% damage and shift back after 9 seconds.

    Ah, hadn't thought of that. They could...um...block energy regen in bear form or something. I dunno.

    Why is that a problem? I mean, what's the cooldown on enrage? 5 minutes? 10?

    One minute.

    reVerse on
  • FodderFodder Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It's still not something you would be doing all the time and Bear isn't affected by savage roar, and it would be reliant on the math that ends up happening, but I would be surprised if that ends up panning out.

    Fodder on
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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Not to mention that in bear form you deal extra threat, something you probably don't want to do while dpsing.

    reVerse on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents2.html

    Some changes from the new build it seems, nothing radical though.
    Natural Reaction
    Increase your chance to dodge by 2/4/6% in bearform and gain 1/2/3 rage when you dodge in bearform.

    Mother Bear
    Increases the attack power bonus of Bear form by 20/40/60% and for each friendly player in your party, reduces damage taken by 1/2/3%.

    Seems like this is in line with them seperating some of the Feral talents into cat or bear.

    815165 on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Nothing radical? Did you look at the balance tree?!

    Opty on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I didn't look at it at all; I haven't been keeping track of Balance changes because I've never specced it (ever), should have been more specific in my last post, sorry.

    Nothing radical for ferals. :o

    815165 on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Heh, Balance got some major boosts to the lower end synergy for Resto. Nature's Grace at 11 pts? 30% duration increase on HoTs? Moonglow 8 pts in ? Daaaaamn, resto is gonna be even more insane. That tree seems to be behind the Raid Stacking info though, as Imp Faerie Fire, Earth and Moon and Improved Moonkin Aura haven't been updated.

    edit: New beta build going out so we'll see the updated updated tree soon.

    Mgcw on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Oh wow, nice Balance changes. And Furor now affects Moonkin form.

    reVerse on
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Think of the possible combos we can do with the furor change. For raiding, the energy and furor changes we are not penalized us for switching out for pots/innervates/battle ressing. For raiding, PVP and soloing we enter new fights with 100 energy most of the time.

    In pvp we could (Feral charge), Bash, cat, shred, shred, shred (assuming 42 point shred + 20 energy regen in 2s) or mangle, shred, shred. Then you've got TF for some extra energy for a finisher (if talented). e.g. Maim followed by hot'ing yourself then back to the fight if you're low on hp.

    Fuck!

    I can think of loads more combos and uses for this and the other changes. Furor now gives us more 'synergy' with our feral forms. It's awesome.

    I really hope this sticks.

    danx on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Also mother bear is pretty huge for Bear Druids, it's like having defensive stance + 2%.

    Mgcw on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Or + 5% if you count towards it, which I totally hope you do.

    815165 on
  • TeokiyaTeokiya Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    danx wrote: »
    ...switching out for pots...
    Consumables are supposed to be usable in forms in WotLK, I think? :)

    Teokiya on
    Teokiya wrote:
    (not to mention the smell of that store... PHEW).
    hehehe, that brought back fond memories... my mum used to hate coming into Games Workshop with me when I was a kid for that very reason, too much BO! ;)
    Ladies and gentlemen, the straw.
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Ah yeah, I forgot that one. Silly me.

    danx on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Teokiya wrote: »
    danx wrote: »
    ...switching out for pots...
    Consumables are supposed to be usable in forms in WotLK, I think? :)

    *Blinks*

    What?

    Man why did I not hear this. That's awesome.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It was planned (as well as picking up quest items in forms, and some proc enchants) but I haven't had a chance to play beta much so I don't know if it's in yet and cannot find it in the patch notes on wotlkwiki. Will try it out when the servers come back up.

    danx on
  • TeokiyaTeokiya Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    As Danx says, weapon (& weapon enchant) procs are supposed to work in forms too in WotLK, but then they've been promising that forever it seems ;)

    Teokiya on
    Teokiya wrote:
    (not to mention the smell of that store... PHEW).
    hehehe, that brought back fond memories... my mum used to hate coming into Games Workshop with me when I was a kid for that very reason, too much BO! ;)
    Ladies and gentlemen, the straw.
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey... where'd Entangling Roots go?

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    You mean Nature's Grasp? Either they got rid of it or made it baseline.

    reVerse on
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Found mention of pots/procs in the first blue post here.
    Don't worry about your bears. The armor and other changes were done to fix itemization issues, not to nerf druids. You've already gotten the ability to drink pots in bear form and benefit from weapon enchants and windfury. We have plenty of knobs to turn to make sure you can do your job even better than you could in LK.

    What's wrong with Entangling roots?

    danx on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    You mean Nature's Grasp? Either they got rid of it or made it baseline.

    Yes, that's what I meant.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • VicVic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The recent bloating of the feral tree is making me question a lot of talents I used to take. This is my first try at a feral Tanking specc with the latest talent build.

    Linky

    Vic on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    2/3 Infected Wounds will probably see the same up time as 3/3 once you have the three stack, so you could probably find a spare point there.

    815165 on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Ok, what the what bwa? I check MMO champion all the time, but I saw no mention of these new druid changes.

    I was all, "mother bear?"

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    hey, is /mountspecial still working for you guys?

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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