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Careless driving ticket!
Dixon
Screwed...possibly doomedCanadaRegistered User regular
Screwed...possibly doomedCanadaRegistered User regular
Ok so I got into a little fender bender...where no bending occurred
Early Saturday morning taking the lady friend to work and was still half asleep - I know I'm an idiot - and rear ended someone, no damage to either cars or injuries thankfully.
Now the cop and the person I rear ended were ever so nice, and both said they wouldn't be making themselves present at court as it was a small mistake.
Unfortunately the ticket I got was for careless driving, she said it was the smallest thing she could give me with there being a collision of some sort. I'm just wondering what the best course of action would be. There is a first attendance thing I have to go to first where you can talk one-on-one with the prosecutor I believe and try to argue the charges down, but I don't think you can get the charges completely dropped. I'm just kinda wondering what the best course of action is. I don't really care about the ticket it's only like $250 but the insurance with most likely quadruple with a careless driving thing on there as it is 6 demerit points.
Some other tidbits of info
We were travelling at about 20km/h in dense traffic, I didn't see the lights change and then rear ended the suv.
So yeah what do you guys think would be best to do
Early Saturday morning taking the lady friend to work and was still half asleep - I know I'm an idiot - and rear ended someone, no damage to either cars or injuries thankfully.
Now the cop and the person I rear ended were ever so nice, and both said they wouldn't be making themselves present at court as it was a small mistake.
Unfortunately the ticket I got was for careless driving, she said it was the smallest thing she could give me with there being a collision of some sort. I'm just wondering what the best course of action would be. There is a first attendance thing I have to go to first where you can talk one-on-one with the prosecutor I believe and try to argue the charges down, but I don't think you can get the charges completely dropped. I'm just kinda wondering what the best course of action is. I don't really care about the ticket it's only like $250 but the insurance with most likely quadruple with a careless driving thing on there as it is 6 demerit points.
Some other tidbits of info
We were travelling at about 20km/h in dense traffic, I didn't see the lights change and then rear ended the suv.
So yeah what do you guys think would be best to do
Dixon on
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yeah, youre in the clear if none of them show up.
So just go and say "Not Guilty".
but they're listening to every word I say
Do you have a good driving record? How old are you? You might be able to talk your way out of the demerits but pleading not guilty seems like a bad idea.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Yeah I'm don't think I'll try to plead not guilty, but I'll try to talk it down to a lesser offense, has anyone else had experience with traffic cases?
"Not guilty" doesn't mean you deny the events occurred. It's routinely done to have an opportunity to view the evidence and bargain down to a lesser charge. The state doesn't want to waste a lot of time and money on the case, but since it's a relatively minor thing (not even a misdemeanor) then it might be best to apologize profusely and wax poetic about how good of a citizen you are.
A buddy of mine got pulled over for lacking a front license plate, and he and his passenger were each charged with possession and paraphernalia (marijuana), and the driver cited for no seatbelt. The passenger just mailed in a check to pay his ticket, but since the driver didn't want to lose his license (6 months is the standard) he went to court in a suit and tie, and told the judge he was a student and worked full time, yadda yadda. Ended up with a disorderly conduct charge, and paid something like $60 + court costs, the total of which was less than the $100 the passenger paid.
Moral of the story is, if you have the option to go to court and plead your case, do so.
I dont know how it works in canada but what about the right to face your accuser?
Also, if they aren't there, isn't it hearsay?
but they're listening to every word I say
Can you elaborate on this?
Its not like the state can just say HEY! you did somthing bad! They have to have someone who accuses you. So if the person whos car you hit and the officer dont show up there is no accuser.
If the prosecuter just heard it happened and tries to use that as evidence, it is hearsay, because it is from out of court statements.
but they're listening to every word I say
99.9% of the time, the prosecutor will ask you if anyone was seriously hurt and if your insurance is handling everything. If the answers to these questions are "no" and "yes" they'll dismiss the charges without prejudice, meaning they can recharge you if you get cagey about the insurance stuff.
I can't speak to Ontario, but I can speak to Manitoba which is next door and probably more relevant than American laws.
We're looking at a situation where physical evidence of the act exists. The Crown's case relies upon the assessment that by hitting a vehicle from behind that you have committed careless driving. The physical damage to both cars will in this case provide stronger evidence that you did in fact hit the other car from behind than anyone's testimony ever would. So the absence of evidence thing isn't gonna work, there's plenty.
So now you're trying to argue that it wasn't careless of you to hit that other car. The police officer's testimony is irrelevant here, they've made their judgement in ticketing you based solely on the fact that you did, it's not like they said they were watching you and you were driving like a complete jackass in the moments leading up to the accident.
Was it careless? Yeah, probably. You know it was. You're not gonna convince anyone that you a) didn't hit the car and b) that you were not careless in your actions that resulted in your hitting of the other car. You can try, but it's not gonna work, man.
Here's what I recommend:
In MB you can plead guilty with an explanation. You get to throw yourself on the mercy of the courts and try to convince them to lessen the fine or dismiss the ticket. You have more or less nothing to lose here, unless you confess to some other offense in the act of trying to explain yourself. Like saying it wasn't your fault you were speeding, you were too drunk to read the speed limit signs. That might end poorly.
Investigate to see if you have a similar option. Admit guilt, indicate that it is your first offense after four years of safe driving, insist that it does not make you a categorically bad driver and request that the demerits be lessened or removed. You might get lucky.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Here in the US this probably wouldn't even have warranted calling the police out and you almost certainly wouldn't have gotten a ticket. You only have to call the police here if someone is injured or if the damage totals more than... 1000$, I think. Which is pretty subjective anyway. Usually people don't call for minor things because they don't want their insurance to go up.
but they're listening to every word I say
Why can't people just accept responsibility?
Imagine you had 1000 apples. A dragon comes and says he is going to take 800 apples. But if you go and talk nice to him he wil only take 400 apples. Wouldn't you do it?
The moral of the story is dragons must really like apples and you must really like giving things away for no reason.
Edit: or alternatively you shot yourself in the foot. Now you could go to the doctor and get the foot fixed. Or you could just wait till it gets gangrene, hack it off with your hedge trimmer, bandage it up and call it a day.
Its about damage control.
but they're listening to every word I say
The court system exists so that it can adjust or drop charges or alter punishments based on the circumstances of the situation and the character and behavior of the people involved. This is a good thing.
if you show up and plead anything you are likely to get the fine reduced.
but they're listening to every word I say
so I'm sure you always drive under the speed limit, use your turn signal 100% of the time, have your seat belt on before you start the car, etc? Even a good driver makes mistakes, even if the mistake is not indicative of the driver's ability.
For instance, when I first learned to drive, I gently rear-ended a 70 year old Chinese gentleman's car. I felt absolutely horrible, even though no damage was done to either car. I admitted fault right away (even though for whatever reason they say you're never supposed to do that), and he respected that and just took my insurance info and said he'd call if there was any problem. He never did. Now, I've been driving for 10 years and probably 300,000 miles since then and haven't been in a single accident or gotten a single ticket, besides maybe a couple parking tickets =p I'm sure as hell glad my insurance didn't get hiked by like 40% because of that tiny bump, especially since it's obvious the bump was a fluke, and also especially because I live(d) in the state with the highest insurance rates in the country (NJ) at the time =x
I dunno, in the UK a fine is a fine. You screw up, you get fined.
Your reward for clean driving for years and years before/after a ticket is not getting fined.
I don't think this is a bizarre concept.
How much taxpayers money is spent running traffic courts so people can argue the smallest fines?
I think the bigger issue is the insurance companies. The state only makes you pay once, but you'll be paying the insurance company for years. Thus there is a substantial incentive to get your offense called something else that the insurance company does not penalize so heavily.
Not very much. It is so routine that it is usually done in production line fashion at the beginning of the day before the normal cases. Probably takes the court around half an hour.
but they're listening to every word I say
If your young and poor, that can be a harsh lesson, unfair really.
If your fabulously wealthy, you don't care about pocket change.
Some provinces in Canada are considering changing fines to be a percentage of your income to fix this. If your poor (university student, low wage etc) and it is worth your time and effort to try and argue down how much this is going to cost you in front of a judge I think you probably deserve to pay less. Damage control, as has been already stated.
yeah - the fine is all well and good, but do you think someone who gets stopped for one little mistake in which no one was injured or was in danger of being injured should cost a person $5k-$10k to the insurance company over the next few years? I certainly don't think so =x
It's interesting that it would cost 5-10k in canada for insurance over the next few years. If the insurance is that high, then the person would need to make some choices they might not like. Or switch insurance companies, if you can. I'm also curious how the OP knows that this is going to impact thier insurance? Last time I talked to my insurance company, they didn't go around pulling abstracts for the fun of it... only if they had a valid reason like a claim, or you changed cars...
And yes, I do live in Canada.
This will make the inevitable protest regarding your infraction that much more ironic.
Everyone shut the fuck up about whether or not these threads are okay or whatever. It's irrelevant and it's completely against the rules to derail a thread this way in H/A anyhow.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I also talked to a friend on my dads who is a cop and he told me to fight it as it is something that you have a 50/50 chance of getting it completley wiped, and that is under just regular conditions where the cop the victim were showing up. He said it was most liekly just get thrown out of court.
Now I don't want to risk anything so I looked into that x-copper stuff and for around 500 cdn they can get all charges dropped.
I looked into the insurance rates to and for 6 demerit points I would most likely be labled as high-risk driver and would be paying around 6000 a year! for 4 demerit points I'm looking at 200% increase in rates. This is with any insurance group as it is on your record, and lasts for a minimum of 5 years, in most cases it is 7 years on your record.
I think I might go with the x coppers. I won't even be driving for the next 4 years as I won't be able to afford a car while I am in university