I find it very hard to believe that RB2 will actually deliver. They had their chance with RB on the Wii and they completely dropped the ball.
I am suggesting that anyone who wants a band game this fall and has a Wii to get GH IV for the Wii.
They didnt drop the ball... they did the best with what they had to work with.
You ever play it or RB for the PS2? Both could have been done better. There is really nothing graphically the two HD games had that the Wii or fuck even the PS2 couldn't have done. They've done create a 3D character since early n64 days! World Tour! Come on.
Compare this to GH III. GH III looks great, and now that it is fixed, sounds great on the Wii. Has all the features besides downloadable songs, which GH IV is going to have.
I bought a 60gb system a few days ago, and it was manufactured on 6/19. Unless they manufactured it and tossed on the HD like a month later before packaging it up, Microsoft was long planning for the switch and probably did indeed make sure 20gb stocks were pretty low.
The prices are still absolutely too high. The two bottom SKUs are at or just under the maximum launch price of previous (successful) consoles. This far from launch, that is not acceptable.
That doesnt account for the fact that the PS3 still outsold it and is almost twice as expensive with the pricecut.
MS has nearly 2 years of Pro sales @ $399 before they dropped it just before the release of Halo 3. Market saturation is always relative to price points and how much has actually been sold. Maybe when PS3 has 10M sold in the US you might see more sluggishness at $300
Alternatively, maybe people are really paranoid about 360 build quality?
I bought a 60gb system a few days ago, and it was manufactured on 6/19. Unless they manufactured it and tossed on the HD like a month later before packaging it up, Microsoft was long planning for the switch and probably did indeed make sure 20gb stocks were pretty low.
Oh I'm sure its been planned at least since the beginning of the year. Had to get the price worked out on the new drives, change the packaging, etc, etc.
I find it very hard to believe that RB2 will actually deliver. They had their chance with RB on the Wii and they completely dropped the ball.
I am suggesting that anyone who wants a band game this fall and has a Wii to get GH IV for the Wii.
I'm playing the waiting game. I have more confidence in Harmonix's promise, but they screwed up their initial chance with Rock Band Wii. Neversoft/VV/Activision makes lots of promises and then only delivers on half of them; yet Guitar Hero 3 had more features than Rock Band Wii did, and GH3Wii was pretty much the same exact game as the 360/PS3 games minus DLC (after they fixed the mono issue, lol).
So NS/VV/Activision has the precedent of actually putting out a game that is comparable in quality to its HD brethren and retains all of the important aspects of the title. But they also have a precedent of making promises and delivering only on some of them. Harmonix has precedent of churning out a dud for the Wii, but they have precedent of actually delivering on their promises; and they're promising a lot for RB2 Wii.
It's a tossup, the best way to choose is to choose what's better when we have finalized products.
If anyone here even cares about the Wii version of any of this.
Sony was smart to make the PS3 so versatile and multimedia friendly. It appeals to a larger audience and this shows when it sells more at a higher price.
I find it very hard to believe that RB2 will actually deliver. They had their chance with RB on the Wii and they completely dropped the ball.
I am suggesting that anyone who wants a band game this fall and has a Wii to get GH IV for the Wii.
They didnt drop the ball... they did the best with what they had to work with.
No, they didn't. Guitar Hero 3 was a whole lot better, and it came out far before RB on the Wii.
That's true. GH3 on the Wii, after fixing the mono fuckup, pretty much retained all of the important features of the HD versions. Even the online component was more robust on the Wii than the PS3. It's like a microcosm of XBL within the game. And it didn't gimp out on features or anything.
Rock Band Wii was limited in what they had to work with only in that they weren't given any time to make the game. There weren't "any plans" to make a Wii version until MTV/HMX/EA saw the sales numbers for GH3 on the Wii. That gave them less than half a year to poop out that turd known as Rock Band Wii.
My fingers are crossed that they'll deliver on their promises for RB2 Wii, but I'm not holding my breath. But there is good reason to believe GHIV on the Wii will be pretty close to its HD brethren if concurrent development goes as well this time as it did for GH3. And this time they won't overlook a mono issue :P
I find it very hard to believe that RB2 will actually deliver. They had their chance with RB on the Wii and they completely dropped the ball.
I am suggesting that anyone who wants a band game this fall and has a Wii to get GH IV for the Wii.
They didnt drop the ball... they did the best with what they had to work with.
You ever play it or RB for the PS2? Both could have been done better. There is really nothing graphically the two HD games had that the Wii or fuck even the PS2 couldn't have done. They've done create a 3D character since early n64 days! World Tour! Come on.
Compare this to GH III. GH III looks great, and now that it is fixed, sounds great on the Wii. Has all the features besides downloadable songs, which GH IV is going to have.
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you might not be entirely correct. Remember, GH only needed two tracks (guitar and everything else). RB needed four (one for each instrument). I'm not saying they couldn't have successfully ported the 360/PS3 experience, only that there may be reasons why they couldn't.
Also, the PS2/Wii port was not done by HMX and is apparently slightly different in terms of mechanics. At least according to discussion in the RB thread.
The prices are still absolutely too high. The two bottom SKUs are at or just under the maximum launch price of previous (successful) consoles. This far from launch, that is not acceptable.
That doesnt account for the fact that the PS3 still outsold it and is almost twice as expensive with the pricecut.
To be fair, it wasn't exactly a true price cut. Just shuffling around with SKUs. If the rumors are correct, a true across-the-board price cut is happening in a few weeks. And no, I don't know officially if that's true or not.
Anyway, Scarab mentioned something earlier which I think is right. MS tends to focus entirely on the holiday timeframe, almost to the detriment of the rest of the year. So yeah, sales are "meh". Not bad, but not great. It does make it easy for the PS3, especially with an exclusive like MGS4, to play catch up. That said, outselling by only ~20K is not going to make it catch up with the 360 in the US any time soon.
The question is what will happen come holiday time. I fully expect things to flip again, thanks to pricing and exclusive games. Gears 2 will sell like crazy. Fable 2 will probably do good as well. Also, I'm not sure if Sony is in a position to drop prices themselves, since they're really counting on being profitable next fiscal year. It'll be interesting to see what happens for the next few months.
Of course, the Wii and DS will still dominate. It's just a matter of how many units Nintendo can produce and are willing to ship to the US, versus Europe.
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you might not be entirely correct. Remember, GH only needed two tracks (guitar and everything else). RB needed four (one for each instrument). I'm not saying they couldn't have successfully ported the 360/PS3 experience, only that there may be reasons why they couldn't.
Wait, what?
What does Audio tracks have to do with it? Both Wii and 360 use the same format, DVD, and if they can fit four audio tracks on the Xbox version then they can fit four on the Wii version
If the rumored September pricecuts happen for the 360 (Going by the theory that all MS rumors are just leaks anyway, so they will indeed cut price.) then I think that all three major systems will be at about what they should be.
I do think the PS3 is a bit expensive, but I'm not going to blame Sony for wanting to keep the price high so that they can make some money back. They have a reliable base that expands by a fairly reliable amount each money. They should focus on software ads and 1st party titles to help spruce up that side of the business, but hardware wise I think they are good with this price until next spring.
360 is too expensive, but a $199 Arcade is almost at my price for the system, which is pretty damn low. It's been a long time coming though.
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you might not be entirely correct. Remember, GH only needed two tracks (guitar and everything else). RB needed four (one for each instrument). I'm not saying they couldn't have successfully ported the 360/PS3 experience, only that there may be reasons why they couldn't.
Also, the PS2/Wii port was not done by HMX and is apparently slightly different in terms of mechanics. At least according to discussion in the RB thread.
Actually, GH needs lead guitar, bass guitar, and vocals+drums tracks. 3 tracks.
But tracks are easy to combine. The PS2 port was a lazy turd by another developer, and then that was used to port to the Wii which was a process started and completed in like half a year. Why was the PS2 version crap? Because it was started development really late in the game and probably didn't give the PS2 devs enough time to do anything besides the basics, and then just render cutscenes for the background visuals. It would be completely feasible and probably fairly easy given enough time to produce the assets and use a basic engine to render a band in real time as well as implement simple features like World Tour. And VV/NS have shown us that a complete online experience is totally possible on the Wii, with no lag at that.
Harmonix themselves are making big promises for the Wii version, but I have not a clue if they're directly or indirectly involved in its development.
One feature that's in the 360 and PS3 versions of Rock Band that a lot of people seem to forget ... the avatars actually move according to the notes/beats! That is, their fingers are on the right strings, their sticks are over the right drums, the foot is moving in line to the bass drum part, etc. That's a lot of extra animation and data management.
Now you could argue that while neat, it's really not that important in the grand scheme of things. Which is why for the PS2 and Wii versions, I think they just cut to generic video. And most people can't tell the difference.
What a boring month. The 360 clearance caused about as much of a bump as I expected and the PS3 is back down to about the normal sales as expected. The only thing that surprises me is that MGS4 dropped out of the top ten so quickly. I expected it to still be somewhere near the bottom of the top ten.
What a boring month. The 360 clearance caused about as much of a bump as I expected and the PS3 is back down to about the normal sales as expected. The only thing that surprises me is that MGS4 dropped out of the top ten so quickly. I expected it to still be somewhere near the bottom of the top ten.
When are we going to see the rest of the game sales? Isn't it usually leaked a day or two later?
If MGS4 is #11, then it's really not that surprising. Remember, the difference between #8 and say #23 typically is far less than you would expect.
What a boring month. The 360 clearance caused about as much of a bump as I expected and the PS3 is back down to about the normal sales as expected. The only thing that surprises me is that MGS4 dropped out of the top ten so quickly. I expected it to still be somewhere near the bottom of the top ten.
When are we going to see the rest of the game sales? Isn't it usually leaked a day or two later?
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you might not be entirely correct. Remember, GH only needed two tracks (guitar and everything else). RB needed four (one for each instrument). I'm not saying they couldn't have successfully ported the 360/PS3 experience, only that there may be reasons why they couldn't.
Wait, what?
What does Audio tracks have to do with it? Both Wii and 360 use the same format, DVD, and if they can fit four audio tracks on the Xbox version then they can fit four on the Wii version
And I'm sure that the process for making the game work on the 360 would necessarily be the same for the Wii, right? After all, the systems are so similar that the arrangement of data (and any necessary compression) on the disc would be nearly identical to the point that all they'd have to do is swap out the necessary executables to get them to run on different systems. Right?
As I said, there could be an actual reason for the differences. Maybe it's because the company hired to do the port rushed it out the door, as slash000 suggests. Could be they simply weren't up to the task of implementing a game designed for more powerful systems in such a short amount of time. If indeed they were ever capable of doing it correctly at all.
But I suppose there's no reason that people shouldn't automatically assume that the media the game was printed on should mean that porting the game would be easy as pie.
Man, those 360 and PS3 numbers are pretty damn surprising. I was fully expecting Microsoft to take a decent lead this month. All the anecdotal reports Neogaf takes pretty much said that the 40GB PS3 was pretty much out of stock and Sony could barely ship many 80GB MGS4 Bundles. Meanwhile the 360 had the 20GB clearance sale. Real price drop, here we come?
Anyway, in other surprising news:
BURNOUT PARADISE LAUNCHES ON PLAYSTATION NETWORK
’Year of Paradise’ Heralds Direct to Consumer Revolution as Criterion Games Introduces
PLAYSTATION®3 Trophy System and Motorcycles
Redwood City, CA – Aug 14, 2008 – Criterion Games, a studio of Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ: ERTS) today announced that the Platinum-hit driving game Burnout™ Paradise will be available to download from the US PLAYSTATION®Network via the PLAYSTATION®Store for $29.99 this Fall. Winner of over 55 awards worldwide, the downloadable version of Burnout Paradise will incorporate all of the recent updates that Criterion Games has delivered directly to consumers.
Burnout Paradise offers hours of intense, high action driving in a stunning open-world that can be experienced both in single player and socially online with your friends -- but the fun does not end there. Earlier this year, Criterion Games kicked off ‘The Year of Paradise’ at www.criteriongames.com. The Year of Paradise is a year-long direct-to-consumer program where Criterion Games regularly releases new game-changing downloadable content that is designed to evolve the game beyond its initial retail release. The first update is available now (August), free of charge* through the PLAYSTATION Network and Xbox LIVE® Marketplace, and includes three new game modes, new cars and 70 new multi-part challenges, extending the game with hours of new gameplay. The download pack also introduces a live news page where players can track their game progress and find out news on upcoming online multiplayer events. More game-changing downloadable content is coming this Fall for Burnout Paradise, including trophy support and motorcycles free of charge* through the PLAYSTATION Network and Xbox LIVE Marketplace.
Fiona Sperry, Studio Manager for Criterion Games said, “Our mission at Criterion is to provide the most entertaining gaming service possible. In order to do that, it’s key that we have the ability to deliver content to players in ways that work for them – through quick and easy download or via traditional bricks and mortar. For us, the fun is in playing the game with friends and constantly discovering new surprises in the world. Download packs with meaningful new gameplay are the perfect way for us to keep entertaining fans and keep them playing, even months after launch.â€
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you might not be entirely correct. Remember, GH only needed two tracks (guitar and everything else). RB needed four (one for each instrument). I'm not saying they couldn't have successfully ported the 360/PS3 experience, only that there may be reasons why they couldn't.
Wait, what?
What does Audio tracks have to do with it? Both Wii and 360 use the same format, DVD, and if they can fit four audio tracks on the Xbox version then they can fit four on the Wii version
And I'm sure that the process for making the game work on the 360 would necessarily be the same for the Wii, right? After all, the systems are so similar that the arrangement of data (and any necessary compression) on the disc would be nearly identical to the point that all they'd have to do is swap out the necessary executables to get them to run on different systems. Right?
As I said, there could be an actual reason for the differences. Maybe it's because the company hired to do the port rushed it out the door, as slash000 suggests. Could be they simply weren't up to the task of implementing a game designed for more powerful systems in such a short amount of time. If indeed they were ever capable of doing it correctly at all.
But I suppose there's no reason that people shouldn't automatically assume that the media the game was printed on should mean that porting the game would be easy as pie.
The story of Rock Band Wii:
Rock Band began development by harmonix, destined to be the biggest music/band game ever conceived. Harmonix wanted to make it exactly as they envisioned, and chose the 360 and PS3 with their HDDs as the primary candidates. Development started.
Maybe half a year later, the publisher gets worried that a $180 game wouldn't sell well enough to justify the cost of manufacturing and marketing and development. So they decided that they needed another team to produce the game for the massive installed base of the PS2, proven at least to buy games like Guitar Hero en mass. Development started and the deadline was the end of the year. RB on 360/PS3 had already begun long before.
What can a developer do? Not enough time to produce the game from scratch since most of the assets (besides the audio tracks and basic HUD) are not easily shared from the 360/PS3 to the PS2. Not enough time to do it from scratch or convert and clean it up like Neversoft/VV/whoever did for Guitar Hero 3, a game that was in concurrent development for all platforms since the beginning (and thus enough time).
So what do they do? They get the basic gameplay working, and implement the assets that they have that will work; the HUD. The background band and such, they simply recorded footage of the HD versions and made it pre-rendered CG play. Not enough time nor enough shared assets to do Create a Character. And presumably not enough time to implement a very simple World Tour mode. DLC was never in the question since Sony essentially abandoned the PS2 HDD. So the company manages to get it out the door for the "launch window" of the main versions.
But no Wii version was in the works at all. Because, obviously, Wii owners bought Wiis just for wii sports and got the cheapest console because they don't like to pay a lot for gaming. Right? Right? Wait a minute.. what's this.. Guitar Hero 3 sold out completely in November and December? It's still charting in January? The Wii version is the best selling version of the game? Even at $90? Oh shit, we need to greenlight a Wii version of Rock Band, stat!
But.. shit... Rock Band 2 is coming out this year as well.. but it's already January/February, what can we do? Well I guess the best time to launch it is in the summer. Gives us the most time we can have to develop a port of Rock Band and produce the instruments, and at least half a year's cushion before the sequel with its newer instruments comes out.
OK! Here, developer, make Rock Band Wii! now!
Fuck. We only have 5 months to make this game? Shit! Quickly, port the PS2 version, that's all there is time for!
Fewf. Just got the PS2 version working, just in time for publishing it for the summer. Thank God.
<shortly thereafter>
OK, so, the fans are complaining that this isn't "real" Rock Band. They're saying that they understand that there wouldn't be DLC for the Wii version, but are bothered by other lacking features. Well let's ask Harmonix what they plan for RB2 for Wii... "we plan to make it fully-featured."
everyone else: well okay, we don't expect DLC, sure, just some decent features and not so bare bones as the first. kthxby
I do think the PS3 is a bit expensive, but I'm not going to blame Sony for wanting to keep the price high so that they can make some money back. They have a reliable base that expands by a fairly reliable amount each money. They should focus on software ads and 1st party titles to help spruce up that side of the business, but hardware wise I think they are good with this price until next spring.
Agreed. If Sony has learned anything this cycle its that software sales are king. The only reason the 360 is even viable is its huge software sales. Stop toting PS3 the machine and start toting some of the bitchin games we have on it. Keep and obtain your exclusives becuase they do matter and just pump ads for the games. One of their most successful ad campaigns pretty much focused exlusively on the games. No abstract art bullshit, no crying babies, just a catchy song, a games montage and the PS3 turning into an octupus. A winning formula.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
I find it very hard to believe that RB2 will actually deliver. They had their chance with RB on the Wii and they completely dropped the ball.
I am suggesting that anyone who wants a band game this fall and has a Wii to get GH IV for the Wii.
They didnt drop the ball... they did the best with what they had to work with.
You ever play it or RB for the PS2? Both could have been done better. There is really nothing graphically the two HD games had that the Wii or fuck even the PS2 couldn't have done. They've done create a 3D character since early n64 days! World Tour! Come on.
Compare this to GH III. GH III looks great, and now that it is fixed, sounds great on the Wii. Has all the features besides downloadable songs, which GH IV is going to have.
You tried asking Moss about that? I seem to remember him coming out with some good explanations before when people were bitching that Rock Band didn't look very special. I guess there is more going on there than you think.
I've really softened on the PS3. I think it was the mind control powers of having Kaz as my avatar for a few weeks. That salmon colored shirt was hypnotic.
That being said my "HD path" probably has a PC upgrade and a cheap Arcade and used HD before getting a triple. I just don't watch enough movies to make Blu-Ray a priority, and I've already beaten MGS4, leaving FF XIII only must try game this gen on the HD systems.
No, this doesn't mean I won't at least try all those multiplayer kill em ups that are console exclusive. I have friends for those.
I had to borrow a 360 for LO and BD, and I probably will buy/borrow one for ToV. Maybe. Besides that I can usually get the full experience by playing it on PC or playing it splitscreen.
How difficult must it be for them to retain exclusives when they simply cannot pay companies enough due to the huge sw sales on 360.
I mean thats what squeenix said wasnt it? ff13 had to go multi to break even or something.
FFXIII went multi because Square loves making money, and they realized that they could make more money by going multi. They probably could have made a profit with the game exclusive to the PS3, but they wouldn't sell nearly as much of the game outside of Japan.
Rock Band began development by harmonix, destined to be the biggest music/band game ever conceived. Harmonix wanted to make it exactly as they envisioned, and chose the 360 and PS3 with their HDDs as the primary candidates. Development started.
Maybe half a year later, the publisher gets worried that a $180 game wouldn't sell well enough to justify the cost of manufacturing and marketing and development. So they decided that they needed another team to produce the game for the massive installed base of the PS2, proven at least to buy games like Guitar Hero en mass. Development started and the deadline was the end of the year. RB on 360/PS3 had already begun long before.
What can a developer do? Not enough time to produce the game from scratch since most of the assets (besides the audio tracks and basic HUD) are not easily shared from the 360/PS3 to the PS2. Not enough time to do it from scratch or convert and clean it up like Neversoft/VV/whoever did for Guitar Hero 3, a game that was in concurrent development for all platforms since the beginning (and thus enough time).
So what do they do? They get the basic gameplay working, and implement the assets that they have that will work; the HUD. The background band and such, they simply recorded footage of the HD versions and made it pre-rendered CG play. Not enough time nor enough shared assets to do Create a Character. And presumably not enough time to implement a very simple World Tour mode. DLC was never in the question since Sony essentially abandoned the PS2 HDD. So the company manages to get it out the door for the "launch window" of the main versions.
But no Wii version was in the works at all. Because, obviously, Wii owners bought Wiis just for wii sports and got the cheapest console because they don't like to pay a lot for gaming. Right? Right? Wait a minute.. what's this.. Guitar Hero 3 sold out completely in November and December? It's still charting in January? The Wii version is the best selling version of the game? Even at $90? Oh shit, we need to greenlight a Wii version of Rock Band, stat!
But.. shit... Rock Band 2 is coming out this year as well.. but it's already January/February, what can we do? Well I guess the best time to launch it is in the summer. Gives us the most time we can have to develop a port of Rock Band and produce the instruments, and at least half a year's cushion before the sequel with its newer instruments comes out.
OK! Here, developer, make Rock Band Wii! now!
Fuck. We only have 5 months to make this game? Shit! Quickly, port the PS2 version, that's all there is time for!
Fewf. Just got the PS2 version working, just in time for publishing it for the summer. Thank God.
<shortly thereafter>
OK, so, the fans are complaining that this isn't "real" Rock Band. They're saying that they understand that there wouldn't be DLC for the Wii version, but are bothered by other lacking features. Well let's ask Harmonix what they plan for RB2 for Wii... "we plan to make it fully-featured."
everyone else: well okay, we don't expect DLC, sure, just some decent features and not so bare bones as the first. kthxby
I decry this as false. FALSE, I say! I need proof. Links, signed and witnessed documents, and affidavit from God (or a duly authorised representative at least).
In a serious response: I don't doubt it. It's just that given the situation they were in (either not expecting massive GH success on Wii or simply not planning to support the platform until they were ready) it makes less sense to say that porting stuff is easy because other games do it.
I don't necessarily believe that the initial lack of Wii support is based on thinking the Wii was for Wii Sport loving rubes. But they did probably think that the basic formula of the Wii might mean it's audience would be disappointed in a 'standard' game that didn't take advantage of the new controller design. The GH3 Wii guitar isn't really the same since they could've designed the Wii LP without it. But it was clever to integrate it and at least cut down on some costs in production.
I find it very hard to believe that RB2 will actually deliver. They had their chance with RB on the Wii and they completely dropped the ball.
I am suggesting that anyone who wants a band game this fall and has a Wii to get GH IV for the Wii.
They didnt drop the ball... they did the best with what they had to work with.
You ever play it or RB for the PS2? Both could have been done better. There is really nothing graphically the two HD games had that the Wii or fuck even the PS2 couldn't have done. They've done create a 3D character since early n64 days! World Tour! Come on.
Compare this to GH III. GH III looks great, and now that it is fixed, sounds great on the Wii. Has all the features besides downloadable songs, which GH IV is going to have.
You tried asking Moss about that? I seem to remember him coming out with some good explanations before when people were bitching that Rock Band didn't look very special. I guess there is more going on there than you think.
Some stupid lighting effect probably. Those models aren't uncanny valley by any stretch. I think the short and lazy development is why we don't have player created characters and fucking world tour.
World tour is a fucking piece of paper.
And don't give me any storage BS. The Wii uses DVDs and doesn't have to worry about Dolby Digital or HD graphics.
It was a lazy effort.
Compare GH III from the PS2, 360, PS3, Wii. They all look about the same. Then really look at RB for 360 and PS3. Nothing earth shattering about the graphics, in fact I'd call them slightly below average for the system. Then look at the fucking mess that is RB PS2/Wii.
According to NPD figures, the video game industry racked up $1.19 billion in hardware, software and accessory sales in July. You could do worse, I suppose. Last year's take from the same month failed to crack the billion mark, but $446.9 million worth of hardware purchased by U.S. consumers and $591.1 in software, you make it close to a billion pretty easily. That $149.1 million in accessories just pushes you right over the edge.
Speaking to Venture Beat, Sega of America president Simon Jeffery spoke on several issues for his company, including iPhone games and licensed titles. While commenting on the success of his company's movie games, like Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk, he had choice words for Electronic Arts.
"We always felt we needed to diversify our portfolio. We've lived off our own intellectual property like Sonic forever. Now we are trying to get a balance of a third Sega IP, a third original product, and a third licensed product. We knew we couldn't gain market momentum without licensed product. It's very popular with the big publishers now to denounce licensed product and having to own your own content. John Riccitiello does that all of the time. I totally believe you have to have licensed content as part of your portfolio."
"I think part of the reason they have left [licensed movie titles] behind is they are not good at it," he continued. "If you look at Superman, it was not a success. We are smaller scale and can be more nimble. We're not throwing ourselves at every license that comes along. With the Aliens products coming and the Marvel games, we have good things coming."
When asked about EA's move towards mature titles like Dead Space, Jeffery responded, "EA has always struggled with the hardcore gamer. I think they look at Gears of War and Halo and wonder why they can't do that. EA has to do something about that. They have tried on and off over the years. It's just like Activision had to come out from doing hardcore games and do more for the masses."
Switching to the Wii, Jeffery decried the current state of software on the system, saying, "The Wii is a very cost effective platform to experiment with. There is a lot of crap coming out for the Wii in general. But if it's not a good game, it doesn't sell. That flood of crap will die down as publishers become more coherent. The Wii is a great opportunity for hitting hardcore gamers. No one is doing that. With Mad World from Platinum Games, we are trying to show that millions of Wii games want to move on to mature games. They don't have to have an Xbox 360 to do that."
"It's very much disproven [that the Wii is a fad,]" he added. "People do play with the Wii like crazy for a while. It gathers cobwebs. Then they bring it out again. But kids are such a big part of the gaming community now and they're demanding Wiis from their parents. Those kids will shape the future of gaming and they're not a fad. Microsoft and Sony have to think about how to make their experiences more gaming in that way."
Compare GH III from the PS2, 360, PS3, Wii. They all look about the same. Then really look at RB for 360 and PS3. Nothing earth shattering about the graphics, in fact I'd call them slightly below average for the system. Then look at the fucking mess that is RB PS2/Wii.
I think it's very short-sighted and dangerous to call things a "lazy effort" when you have no idea what actually went on. As I've said time and time again, companies are different. Saying "oh company X did A, why can't company Y do the same thing?" isn't very valid.
Read slash's post for one thing. Another thing to realize ... Harmonix may not have had access to their old GH code anymore. So they might have had to build everything from scratch again. Neversoft may not have needed to. It just depends on who owned the code, the developer or the publisher (my guess is the latter). Additionally, maybe Harmonix is a lot smaller than Neversoft/Activision? That doesn't mean that they were lazy, just not as deeply staffed.
Seems like MTV and Harmonix chose to focus on the 360 and PS3 as their primary console of choice. You can argue whether or not that was a good idea at the time, but keep in mind that hindsight is always 20/20. And it's not like the 360/PS3 versions haven't sold well or anything. Anyway, if you have limited resources, you have to pick your battles. Spreading your resources thin means you end up having a crappy product over multiple platforms, versus a really well done product on a few and a not-so-hot version on others. You can recover a lot easier in the latter situation, and not so much the former.
Posts
You ever play it or RB for the PS2? Both could have been done better. There is really nothing graphically the two HD games had that the Wii or fuck even the PS2 couldn't have done. They've done create a 3D character since early n64 days! World Tour! Come on.
Compare this to GH III. GH III looks great, and now that it is fixed, sounds great on the Wii. Has all the features besides downloadable songs, which GH IV is going to have.
Alternatively, maybe people are really paranoid about 360 build quality?
Oh I'm sure its been planned at least since the beginning of the year. Had to get the price worked out on the new drives, change the packaging, etc, etc.
These things take time.
I'm playing the waiting game. I have more confidence in Harmonix's promise, but they screwed up their initial chance with Rock Band Wii. Neversoft/VV/Activision makes lots of promises and then only delivers on half of them; yet Guitar Hero 3 had more features than Rock Band Wii did, and GH3Wii was pretty much the same exact game as the 360/PS3 games minus DLC (after they fixed the mono issue, lol).
So NS/VV/Activision has the precedent of actually putting out a game that is comparable in quality to its HD brethren and retains all of the important aspects of the title. But they also have a precedent of making promises and delivering only on some of them. Harmonix has precedent of churning out a dud for the Wii, but they have precedent of actually delivering on their promises; and they're promising a lot for RB2 Wii.
It's a tossup, the best way to choose is to choose what's better when we have finalized products.
If anyone here even cares about the Wii version of any of this.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Sony was smart to make the PS3 so versatile and multimedia friendly. It appeals to a larger audience and this shows when it sells more at a higher price.
That's true. GH3 on the Wii, after fixing the mono fuckup, pretty much retained all of the important features of the HD versions. Even the online component was more robust on the Wii than the PS3. It's like a microcosm of XBL within the game. And it didn't gimp out on features or anything.
Rock Band Wii was limited in what they had to work with only in that they weren't given any time to make the game. There weren't "any plans" to make a Wii version until MTV/HMX/EA saw the sales numbers for GH3 on the Wii. That gave them less than half a year to poop out that turd known as Rock Band Wii.
My fingers are crossed that they'll deliver on their promises for RB2 Wii, but I'm not holding my breath. But there is good reason to believe GHIV on the Wii will be pretty close to its HD brethren if concurrent development goes as well this time as it did for GH3. And this time they won't overlook a mono issue :P
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you might not be entirely correct. Remember, GH only needed two tracks (guitar and everything else). RB needed four (one for each instrument). I'm not saying they couldn't have successfully ported the 360/PS3 experience, only that there may be reasons why they couldn't.
Also, the PS2/Wii port was not done by HMX and is apparently slightly different in terms of mechanics. At least according to discussion in the RB thread.
To be fair, it wasn't exactly a true price cut. Just shuffling around with SKUs. If the rumors are correct, a true across-the-board price cut is happening in a few weeks. And no, I don't know officially if that's true or not.
Anyway, Scarab mentioned something earlier which I think is right. MS tends to focus entirely on the holiday timeframe, almost to the detriment of the rest of the year. So yeah, sales are "meh". Not bad, but not great. It does make it easy for the PS3, especially with an exclusive like MGS4, to play catch up. That said, outselling by only ~20K is not going to make it catch up with the 360 in the US any time soon.
The question is what will happen come holiday time. I fully expect things to flip again, thanks to pricing and exclusive games. Gears 2 will sell like crazy. Fable 2 will probably do good as well. Also, I'm not sure if Sony is in a position to drop prices themselves, since they're really counting on being profitable next fiscal year. It'll be interesting to see what happens for the next few months.
Of course, the Wii and DS will still dominate. It's just a matter of how many units Nintendo can produce and are willing to ship to the US, versus Europe.
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Wait, what?
What does Audio tracks have to do with it? Both Wii and 360 use the same format, DVD, and if they can fit four audio tracks on the Xbox version then they can fit four on the Wii version
I do think the PS3 is a bit expensive, but I'm not going to blame Sony for wanting to keep the price high so that they can make some money back. They have a reliable base that expands by a fairly reliable amount each money. They should focus on software ads and 1st party titles to help spruce up that side of the business, but hardware wise I think they are good with this price until next spring.
360 is too expensive, but a $199 Arcade is almost at my price for the system, which is pretty damn low. It's been a long time coming though.
Actually, GH needs lead guitar, bass guitar, and vocals+drums tracks. 3 tracks.
But tracks are easy to combine. The PS2 port was a lazy turd by another developer, and then that was used to port to the Wii which was a process started and completed in like half a year. Why was the PS2 version crap? Because it was started development really late in the game and probably didn't give the PS2 devs enough time to do anything besides the basics, and then just render cutscenes for the background visuals. It would be completely feasible and probably fairly easy given enough time to produce the assets and use a basic engine to render a band in real time as well as implement simple features like World Tour. And VV/NS have shown us that a complete online experience is totally possible on the Wii, with no lag at that.
Harmonix themselves are making big promises for the Wii version, but I have not a clue if they're directly or indirectly involved in its development.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Now you could argue that while neat, it's really not that important in the grand scheme of things. Which is why for the PS2 and Wii versions, I think they just cut to generic video. And most people can't tell the difference.
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Never underestimate the power of Guitar Hero. (Guitar Hero On Tour and GH:OT NDS-bundle were released last month)
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
It's the DS
Iwata sacrificed an orphan to Fusajiro Yamauchi.
When are we going to see the rest of the game sales? Isn't it usually leaked a day or two later?
If MGS4 is #11, then it's really not that surprising. Remember, the difference between #8 and say #23 typically is far less than you would expect.
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http://www.interactive.org/top-ten.php
And I'm sure that the process for making the game work on the 360 would necessarily be the same for the Wii, right? After all, the systems are so similar that the arrangement of data (and any necessary compression) on the disc would be nearly identical to the point that all they'd have to do is swap out the necessary executables to get them to run on different systems. Right?
As I said, there could be an actual reason for the differences. Maybe it's because the company hired to do the port rushed it out the door, as slash000 suggests. Could be they simply weren't up to the task of implementing a game designed for more powerful systems in such a short amount of time. If indeed they were ever capable of doing it correctly at all.
But I suppose there's no reason that people shouldn't automatically assume that the media the game was printed on should mean that porting the game would be easy as pie.
Anyway, in other surprising news:
The story of Rock Band Wii:
Maybe half a year later, the publisher gets worried that a $180 game wouldn't sell well enough to justify the cost of manufacturing and marketing and development. So they decided that they needed another team to produce the game for the massive installed base of the PS2, proven at least to buy games like Guitar Hero en mass. Development started and the deadline was the end of the year. RB on 360/PS3 had already begun long before.
What can a developer do? Not enough time to produce the game from scratch since most of the assets (besides the audio tracks and basic HUD) are not easily shared from the 360/PS3 to the PS2. Not enough time to do it from scratch or convert and clean it up like Neversoft/VV/whoever did for Guitar Hero 3, a game that was in concurrent development for all platforms since the beginning (and thus enough time).
So what do they do? They get the basic gameplay working, and implement the assets that they have that will work; the HUD. The background band and such, they simply recorded footage of the HD versions and made it pre-rendered CG play. Not enough time nor enough shared assets to do Create a Character. And presumably not enough time to implement a very simple World Tour mode. DLC was never in the question since Sony essentially abandoned the PS2 HDD. So the company manages to get it out the door for the "launch window" of the main versions.
But no Wii version was in the works at all. Because, obviously, Wii owners bought Wiis just for wii sports and got the cheapest console because they don't like to pay a lot for gaming. Right? Right? Wait a minute.. what's this.. Guitar Hero 3 sold out completely in November and December? It's still charting in January? The Wii version is the best selling version of the game? Even at $90? Oh shit, we need to greenlight a Wii version of Rock Band, stat!
But.. shit... Rock Band 2 is coming out this year as well.. but it's already January/February, what can we do? Well I guess the best time to launch it is in the summer. Gives us the most time we can have to develop a port of Rock Band and produce the instruments, and at least half a year's cushion before the sequel with its newer instruments comes out.
OK! Here, developer, make Rock Band Wii! now!
Fuck. We only have 5 months to make this game? Shit! Quickly, port the PS2 version, that's all there is time for!
Fewf. Just got the PS2 version working, just in time for publishing it for the summer. Thank God.
<shortly thereafter>
OK, so, the fans are complaining that this isn't "real" Rock Band. They're saying that they understand that there wouldn't be DLC for the Wii version, but are bothered by other lacking features. Well let's ask Harmonix what they plan for RB2 for Wii... "we plan to make it fully-featured."
everyone else: well okay, we don't expect DLC, sure, just some decent features and not so bare bones as the first. kthxby
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Agreed. If Sony has learned anything this cycle its that software sales are king. The only reason the 360 is even viable is its huge software sales. Stop toting PS3 the machine and start toting some of the bitchin games we have on it. Keep and obtain your exclusives becuase they do matter and just pump ads for the games. One of their most successful ad campaigns pretty much focused exlusively on the games. No abstract art bullshit, no crying babies, just a catchy song, a games montage and the PS3 turning into an octupus. A winning formula.
You tried asking Moss about that? I seem to remember him coming out with some good explanations before when people were bitching that Rock Band didn't look very special. I guess there is more going on there than you think.
I mean thats what squeenix said wasnt it? ff13 had to go multi to break even or something.
That being said my "HD path" probably has a PC upgrade and a cheap Arcade and used HD before getting a triple. I just don't watch enough movies to make Blu-Ray a priority, and I've already beaten MGS4, leaving FF XIII only must try game this gen on the HD systems.
No, this doesn't mean I won't at least try all those multiplayer kill em ups that are console exclusive. I have friends for those.
I had to borrow a 360 for LO and BD, and I probably will buy/borrow one for ToV. Maybe. Besides that I can usually get the full experience by playing it on PC or playing it splitscreen.
FFXIII went multi because Square loves making money, and they realized that they could make more money by going multi. They probably could have made a profit with the game exclusive to the PS3, but they wouldn't sell nearly as much of the game outside of Japan.
I decry this as false. FALSE, I say! I need proof. Links, signed and witnessed documents, and affidavit from God (or a duly authorised representative at least).
In a serious response: I don't doubt it. It's just that given the situation they were in (either not expecting massive GH success on Wii or simply not planning to support the platform until they were ready) it makes less sense to say that porting stuff is easy because other games do it.
I don't necessarily believe that the initial lack of Wii support is based on thinking the Wii was for Wii Sport loving rubes. But they did probably think that the basic formula of the Wii might mean it's audience would be disappointed in a 'standard' game that didn't take advantage of the new controller design. The GH3 Wii guitar isn't really the same since they could've designed the Wii LP without it. But it was clever to integrate it and at least cut down on some costs in production.
Some stupid lighting effect probably. Those models aren't uncanny valley by any stretch. I think the short and lazy development is why we don't have player created characters and fucking world tour.
World tour is a fucking piece of paper.
And don't give me any storage BS. The Wii uses DVDs and doesn't have to worry about Dolby Digital or HD graphics.
It was a lazy effort.
Compare GH III from the PS2, 360, PS3, Wii. They all look about the same. Then really look at RB for 360 and PS3. Nothing earth shattering about the graphics, in fact I'd call them slightly below average for the system. Then look at the fucking mess that is RB PS2/Wii.
I think it's very short-sighted and dangerous to call things a "lazy effort" when you have no idea what actually went on. As I've said time and time again, companies are different. Saying "oh company X did A, why can't company Y do the same thing?" isn't very valid.
Read slash's post for one thing. Another thing to realize ... Harmonix may not have had access to their old GH code anymore. So they might have had to build everything from scratch again. Neversoft may not have needed to. It just depends on who owned the code, the developer or the publisher (my guess is the latter). Additionally, maybe Harmonix is a lot smaller than Neversoft/Activision? That doesn't mean that they were lazy, just not as deeply staffed.
Seems like MTV and Harmonix chose to focus on the 360 and PS3 as their primary console of choice. You can argue whether or not that was a good idea at the time, but keep in mind that hindsight is always 20/20. And it's not like the 360/PS3 versions haven't sold well or anything. Anyway, if you have limited resources, you have to pick your battles. Spreading your resources thin means you end up having a crappy product over multiple platforms, versus a really well done product on a few and a not-so-hot version on others. You can recover a lot easier in the latter situation, and not so much the former.
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