As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

CitySpace, Second Life Meets MySpace? -- From creator of MySpace

2»

Posts

  • Paradox ControlParadox Control Master MC Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I can completely understand why most people here hate the concept of CitySpace. But, if this does HALF of what it says it will, we will see a paradigm shift in how PC games are made. Browser based 3D games are already on the rise with sites like instantaction.com. But if you were to take the rendering of games off the users computer, and put it server side, you are no longer limiting the kind of users that can come and play your games. You don't have to worry about compromising graphics for the sake of what the average user is going to have for hardware. Imagine Gears of War X where you don't buy it in the store, but instead pay to have it streamed to your Xbox or PC, and it looked as good as the city in that video.

    The only thing that would stop something like this from working extremely well, is bandwidth. The US has a lot of catching up to do in that department when compared to the rest of the world. But once we jump that hurdle, expect some big changes in the way we gain our gaming content.

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I can completely understand why most people here hate the concept of CitySpace. But, if this does HALF of what it says it will, we will see a paradigm shift in how PC games are made. Browser based 3D games are already on the rise with sites like instantaction.com. But if you were to take the rendering of games off the users computer, and put it server side, you are no longer limiting the kind of users that can come and play your games. You don't have to worry about compromising graphics for the sake of what the average user is going to have for hardware. Imagine Gears of War X where you don't buy it in the store, but instead pay to have it streamed to your Xbox or PC, and it looked as good as the city in that video.

    The only thing that would stop something like this from working extremely well, is bandwidth. The US has a lot of catching up to do in that department when compared to the rest of the world. But once we jump that hurdle, expect some big changes in the way we gain our gaming content.

    It's not just bandwidth, it's overall latency.

    In something slow paced it doesn't matter, but in an action game it would be TERRIBLE.

    What I'm saying is that every time a user has input it has to be sent back server side, then updated, then rendered, then the image is sent back to the user.

    This process will basically not ever be as smooth as having all of the i/o on your end.

    John Carmack even talked about this at one point. Frankly even on your desktop there's a small (basically completely unnoticeable without a gauge) latency between when you move your mouse and when your mouse cursor actually moves.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I think it was when he was talking about Quake Zero, but then got all tangental and nerdy and sexy.

    LewieP on
  • RemingtonRemington Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    This seems more like something I'd expect to see from Google.

    Remington on
  • artooartoo Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Looks cool, but I doubt this will ever come out or work at all.

    artoo on
  • kingmetalkingmetal Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    seems like the Myspace version of The Street from Snowcrash.

    Yeah, throw me in with the skeptics. I've also never been one to take too strongly to social networks - so to me it's just interesting conceptually. If it works, it would change everything - but I just CAN'T see how.

    But, then again, I still don't believe that I can play a PS2 game OVER THE INTERNET on a PSP without there being 10 minutes of lag - so maybe I just don't understand how technology works.

    If something like this were to actually work, it would certainly be a lot more interesting than Myspace or Facebook. That collaborative application thing was actually awesome - that could potentially be really useful if it worked.

    kingmetal on
  • SilkyNumNutsSilkyNumNuts Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well A lot of it didn't actually look that great, so it might not be so much of a strain on the graphics side.

    SilkyNumNuts on
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So, I take it people here aren't big on Web 2.0, facebook, and Myspace? Because if that's the case, I think we're best friends now.

    I constantly berate my friends for posting shit on each others' "walls" and thinking they have a shot with Olivia Munn because she added them back on Myspace.

    We all know that 4chan is the crucible from which this entire internet thing springs from, anyway.

    Ultimanecat on
    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I saw this and immediately thought The Matrix.

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
  • GimeCGimeC Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So, I take it people here aren't big on Web 2.0, facebook, and Myspace? Because if that's the case, I think we're best friends now.

    I constantly berate my friends for posting shit on each others' "walls" and thinking they have a shot with Olivia Munn because she added them back on Myspace.

    We all know that 4chan is the crucible from which this entire internet thing springs from, anyway.

    Facebook is good for keeping up with old friends you want to stay in touch with but don't actually live near. Otherwise, it's pretty much stupid.

    That said, this concept could be cool with friends groups--ie., one apartment building for a bunch of your friends. However, the logistics are a nightmare and the "cloud" processing sounds like an idea for 10-20 years from now. Which maybe they're shooting for, I dunno.

    GimeC on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    There are ways of fixing facebook.

    Greasemonkey + Facebook fixer for one.

    Get's rid of ads, and any evidence of applications ever existing.

    Way to fuck over your userbase in ways they don't even understand for profit facebook.

    LewieP on
  • kingmetalkingmetal Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I've been thinking about this more and there's just no possible way this could work. Even if you could render the world for multiple concurrent users, how would you display the same images to everyone in real time? Streaming video works because it can prebuffer - but how would that work with multiple users? How would you deliver content to two users simultaneously and sychronously over the internet?

    Of course, I could just have a very limited understanding of how digital content delivery works.

    kingmetal on
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    This isnt' counter strike or wow pvp, it's currently just moving around in a city. You can have latency and prebuffer for that.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Man. Seriously, with Second Life and Home, and now this, why do people even bother going outside?
    Just make friends once and then spend all your time prentending to be hanging out with them online.

    Local H Jay on
    Xbox - Local H Jay
    PS - Local_H_Jay
    Sub me on Youtube
    And Twitch
  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So I look at the video.

    It looks interesting.

    I read a bit.

    Oh, it's rendered in realtime? Really?
    "Well, I guess hardware is developed at an incredible pace these days, so they might have some sort of supercomputer to run the.. uh..".

    This is when I get to the part that states that this exact video is being generated from a Treo 700.

    I, eh.. I don't think so.

    Palm_Treo_700w_1.JPG.jpg

    Really!?

    Visti on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AiranAiran Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    As far as I know, the graphics are being rendered server-side, and then the image is streamed to the Treo.

    Airan on
    paDudSig.jpg
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yeah, that's the whole idea of cloud computing. The only real capability the Treo would need is some simple I/O, high bandwidth, and a screen.

    Dehumanized on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    and the capability to pay for the cost of rendering...

    So it would either require hella advertising, or subscription fee.

    LewieP on
  • VistiVisti Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yeah, alright. I'll agree to plausability, but still.. rendered realtime?

    Are they going to set up rendering farms to process graphics stuff 24/7 and then the servers. I'm intrigued now, but the video is probably a bit too early to estimate anything from.

    Visti on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Whaaat....

    Lucky Cynic on
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Visti wrote: »
    Yeah, alright. I'll agree to plausability, but still.. rendered realtime?

    Are they going to set up rendering farms to process graphics stuff 24/7 and then the servers. I'm intrigued now, but the video is probably a bit too early to estimate anything from.

    Visuals are all locally rendered. Meaning the image is produced by your own computer, not a server's.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • TVs_FrankTVs_Frank Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I can't wait to upload Lemonparty for tagging buildings.

    TVs_Frank on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Visti wrote: »
    Yeah, alright. I'll agree to plausability, but still.. rendered realtime?

    Are they going to set up rendering farms to process graphics stuff 24/7 and then the servers. I'm intrigued now, but the video is probably a bit too early to estimate anything from.

    Visuals are all locally rendered. Meaning the image is produced by your own computer, not a server's.

    Not exactly.

    The server renders 2D frames and sends them to your computer via the network connection. Then your computer displays those 2D frames.

    The main objective of the OTOY is to have 3D games that run in browsers. I don't think we'll see high-res full-screen games for long, long time - what is a little more realistic with the OTOY engine are platform-independent 3D games running in a smaller res browser window.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Visti wrote: »
    Yeah, alright. I'll agree to plausability, but still.. rendered realtime?

    Are they going to set up rendering farms to process graphics stuff 24/7 and then the servers. I'm intrigued now, but the video is probably a bit too early to estimate anything from.

    Visuals are all locally rendered. Meaning the image is produced by your own computer, not a server's.

    Not exactly.

    The server renders 2D frames and sends them to your computer via the network connection. Then your computer displays those 2D frames.

    The main objective of the OTOY is to have 3D games that run in browsers. I don't think we'll see high-res full-screen games for long, long time - what is a little more realistic with the OTOY engine are platform-independent 3D games running in a smaller res browser window.

    Well, then is that still techincally 'real time?'

    Lucky Cynic on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Visti wrote: »
    Yeah, alright. I'll agree to plausability, but still.. rendered realtime?

    Are they going to set up rendering farms to process graphics stuff 24/7 and then the servers. I'm intrigued now, but the video is probably a bit too early to estimate anything from.

    Visuals are all locally rendered. Meaning the image is produced by your own computer, not a server's.

    Not exactly.

    The server renders 2D frames and sends them to your computer via the network connection. Then your computer displays those 2D frames.

    The main objective of the OTOY is to have 3D games that run in browsers. I don't think we'll see high-res full-screen games for long, long time - what is a little more realistic with the OTOY engine are platform-independent 3D games running in a smaller res browser window.

    Well, then is that still techincally 'real time?'

    That's what they're promising.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Visti wrote: »
    Yeah, alright. I'll agree to plausability, but still.. rendered realtime?

    Are they going to set up rendering farms to process graphics stuff 24/7 and then the servers. I'm intrigued now, but the video is probably a bit too early to estimate anything from.

    Visuals are all locally rendered. Meaning the image is produced by your own computer, not a server's.

    Not exactly.

    The server renders 2D frames and sends them to your computer via the network connection. Then your computer displays those 2D frames.

    The main objective of the OTOY is to have 3D games that run in browsers. I don't think we'll see high-res full-screen games for long, long time - what is a little more realistic with the OTOY engine are platform-independent 3D games running in a smaller res browser window.

    Well, then is that still techincally 'real time?'
    Yes. Did you know that when you use a webcam to video chat it sends a 2D image to the recieving end, and it is still technically 'real time.'

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Oh that's a fair enough example, PikaPuff.

    I am seriously wondering how open this will be. I mean, Home is basically just a glorified interface with slight Sims like additions, but really, it doesn't seem like Home is meant to be one of those things you are to sit at for hours or is supposed to be a main attraction. It could be, but really it is meant to be a cool glue to hold together your PS3 experience by helping down time between online matches or kill a few minutes between games.

    Now Second Life is just crazy. I don't know of any other place where you can make something, and turn around and make it an actual brand out of it, an online brand name shop, where you have actual copyrights and IP rights to what you made, enough so that you can make a job out of a virtual world. This is what I think will help set SL apart, it's powerhouse economy which I doubt this will have.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    did you check out the video and description? nothing's said about it being a game at all. it's not competing with second life.

    looks like a cool do-dad shell that has absolutely no substance or meaning as of yet.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I predict one or more of the following will take place:

    a) It won't look anywhere near as good as in that video and the screenshots produced by OTOY

    b) It won't support more than a small amount of concurrent users

    c) It won't come out for a decade

    d) It'll never come out

    Boy you're really goin' out on a limb with these predictions man

    Nobody's eating my cock

    His Corkiness on
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I predict one or more of the following will take place:

    a) It won't look anywhere near as good as in that video and the screenshots produced by OTOY

    b) It won't support more than a small amount of concurrent users

    c) It won't come out for a decade

    d) It'll never come out

    Boy you're really goin' out on a limb with these predictions man

    Nobody's eating my cock
    You might end up eating it.

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
  • AxiomRedAxiomRed Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Wow. You know what this needs? More buzz words. I'll grant that "Web 2.0 Persistent Virtual World... In the Cloud" is pretty impressive, but couldn't they zazz it up with, I dunno, some tags? Maybe a Vlog or two? Make it run on AJAX with microtransactions? Paradigm shift ecommerce blogosphere?

    Now, on to technical matters. Isn't the resolution on streaming video, especially at the speed most smartphones transfer at, abysmal? Also, who is gonna spend all the money making the ridiculous server farm needed to process all that data for even a hundred people?

    AxiomRed on
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I think that it makes sense on a small scale but I cannot ever see this working on the scale they talk about. For one person accessing a server to render stuff yeah that makes sense but a thousand people asking the same server for good graphics all at once? How?

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    AxiomRed wrote: »
    Wow. You know what this needs? More buzz words. I'll grant that "Web 2.0 Persistent Virtual World... In the Cloud" is pretty impressive, but couldn't they zazz it up with, I dunno, some tags? Maybe a Vlog or two? Make it run on AJAX with microtransactions? Paradigm shift ecommerce blogosphere?

    Now, on to technical matters. Isn't the resolution on streaming video, especially at the speed most smartphones transfer at, abysmal? Also, who is gonna spend all the money making the ridiculous server farm needed to process all that data for even a hundred people?

    I'd imagine in a number of years when crazy powerful gpus (compared to today's standards) can be had at more reasonable prices, people may be willing to invest.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    woah woah woah, they saved some buzz words for the article on "in the Cloud" rendering they linked to from that article. Check out this nugget!

    "OTOY-powered graphics can be delivered via Ajax, Flash, Java, or ActiveX. Surprisingly, the Ajax-powered version in Safari works fastest."

    My resume right now just says AJAX in a cool font...

    with a drop shadow. Then in smaller, but more drop shadowed font it reads..."flex?"

    Disrupter on
    616610-1.png
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    did you check out the video and description? nothing's said about it being a game at all. it's not competing with second life.

    Wait, I didn't say it was a game. :|

    Lucky Cynic on
Sign In or Register to comment.