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Help me argue against something I think is bad (sexist?) coherantly and inteligently
LewieP
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, I am in the process of helping set up a gaming forum, and there is someone, and probably a few other people, that feel very strongly one way about an issue, and I feel the other way, but I would like some help coming up with an intelligent, articulate and coherent argument against them, because I personally just want to shout "No you idiot you are wrong and pretty perverse, argh!!!!" which is likely to not solve anything.
Basically, the games radar forums are being shut down, so we are setting up another forum for everyone to transfer to, and somebody believes that we should have a "Babe" thread in a gaming forum.
He also wanted to have a "NSFW" thread in addition to the "Babe" Thread, which would allow posting images of full nudity, whereas the "Babe" thread would just be partial nudity, in his words "nothing worse than page 3 of the sun", so topless girls basically.
My stance on the NSFW thread was this:
Luckily, the community agreed, it was voted "no" by a huge majority.
However, I would now like to raise the issue that I don't think we should even have a "Babe" thread, and I think the best way to get people to vote it down would be to come up with an intelligent and coherent argument. Can you guys help me come up with one?
Basically, the games radar forums are being shut down, so we are setting up another forum for everyone to transfer to, and somebody believes that we should have a "Babe" thread in a gaming forum.
He also wanted to have a "NSFW" thread in addition to the "Babe" Thread, which would allow posting images of full nudity, whereas the "Babe" thread would just be partial nudity, in his words "nothing worse than page 3 of the sun", so topless girls basically.
My stance on the NSFW thread was this:
LewieP wrote:There are a million places for this kind of thing already, and I imagine this will turn away some people from the forum, particularly females.
I say no, pointless, and adds nothing to the community imo.
Luckily, the community agreed, it was voted "no" by a huge majority.
However, I would now like to raise the issue that I don't think we should even have a "Babe" thread, and I think the best way to get people to vote it down would be to come up with an intelligent and coherent argument. Can you guys help me come up with one?
LewieP on
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Yeah, I guess it could work, I just know that often other people come up with better worded arguments than me, but with similar spirit, so maybe someone can come up with a better way of saying it.
I'm certainly not going to just accept it without putting up a case for an alternative. The atmosphere seems that people are willing to make changes, so now seems like a good time to go for it.
A similar argument is that by setting up a "babe" thread, not only are you possibly deterring potential posters who would be offended by something that could be constructed as sexist (unless everyone is willing to put up with a guys-only "beefcake" thread at the same time) but it detracts from the point of setting up the forums in the first place, which is gaming. Once you start adding threads outside of the core focus of your forums, you dilute your message and purpose. For some people that not a big deal, but it might be to you.
If you really just want a gaming forum, stick with gaming topics (outside the obligatory “who you are” and “why you’re here” sort of ideas)
So speaketh the tyrant.
Nah, it's not really my forum, I'm just one of the people involved in putting it together, so is the dude who is spearheading the "I want pron in the forums" movement.
Either that or insist that they also include a Studs thread to be filled with shirtless dudes, haha.
I can't find the infinity symbol to times it by, but you get the idea.
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
I guess if it was a friend and they really really wanted it, I would suggest compromise. 'Game babe' for example, that is to say fan art *shudder* of women in games would at least be topical.
Because really, are you a gamer forum, or a bewbie forum? Or are you a neighborhood that just happens to do both?
The bit about shunning real, actual girls who might be interested in checking out your stuff is extremely valid, posters of girls are generally fairly effective girl repellent, so I would maybe bring up the real girls are moar better than imaginary ones.
That being said, letting the occasional NSFW image slide is probably okay- the artwork forum here for example often indulges in titillating imagery but falls shy of pr0n, which benefits the community as a whole.
A 'babe' thread seems like a decent idea, but it falls a bit left of the moral majority, and for a forum, a gathering place about something different, you want to keep the doors open and the rooms as comfortable as you can for everyone. An out and out sexist thread like that, and the implied consent of the administration, would suggest to visitors that those attitudes are open and supported across the board- which is not the case here. This not being the case, it should probably be excluded. The greater good and all that.
The problem with that is you'll have people registered there just for the hooties, and that not the element you want slackin' around your forums, causing trouble.
What people want is generally irrelevant to what is best for the community. If the administration here gave people what they wanted we would still have an enormous hentai thread, an enormous porn thread, piracy threads, drunk threads, thread spamming, and widespread racism. We don't, because we completely ignored the desires of the community in favour of what we thought was best. It worked out.
Now he wants to allow piracy links.
I really hope everyone votes against him, there is a bunch of people involved and he seems to be the only one who wants a haven of boobs and piracy.
oh wait, he has just made a badly worded, rushed, public poll to decide what we do, and he has threatened to quit the forum if he looses...great
Honestly, this is just all for the better. If everything you're talking about is true, this guy doesn't run in step with the kind of community that you want to create, anyway.
No. You cannot change the wording of a poll halfway through the vote.
Urgh, if this wasn't going to get my blog so much traffic I don't think it would be worth it.
Are moderators going to check to make sure all images are of people over the age of 18?
Are we going to have a warning to people that the site may contain pornography when they sign up?
Why pay the bandwidth for a bunch of 13 year olds who only visit the forums for our porn thread?
Arguments against a piracy thread:
Do we want to be taken seriously as a respectable forum for video game discussion?
Why have a piracy thread when anyone with half a brain can use bittorrent and google?
Arguments against this guy being involved in any way shape or form:
How about you go find your own forums with booze and hookers. Actually, forget the forum.
Edit: Yeah, it's pretty tempting to quit now, but it would be brilliant to be attached to a rather large forum. There is going to be a SavyGamer link at the top of the page, for example. I am not committed or anything, so I am going to wait it out, and hopefully these issues will be resolved acceptably.
I think the legal tack is also a strong argument since adding age checks would probably scare off other people, both honest kids who aren't lying about their age and people of age who are scared of why there's an age check on a game discussion forum.
Not allowing piracy stuff is just covering your ass from a legal standpoint.
Some other people started backing me up.
This might just resolve itself, then.
All you need to do is make your stance. If you're willing to leave if this happens, say so. Do it if he gets his way. Make sure people know how strongly you feel.
Then, when you start your own forum, the people who feel the same way will come, and you'll have a much better community. If there's a boobs thread not only do you drive away decent people, you also attract complete buffoons.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Not allowing piracy is just common sense however.
I will say however that I don't think a "boob" thread necessarily will drag a forum down (so long as its accessible only by certain members), but if the you are STRICT in that this forum MUST be about gaming, then yea - 86 it, and let the other fellow get his fap-material elsewhere.
Its the internet. Theres plenty of places to find porn, and gaming forums aren't the place you should be looking for it.
Who said anything about "porn"? For whatever reason, for a group of people theres a draw to "pin-up" threads, and a desire to post in them. I think they are pointless sure, but I'm not the majority.
Porn has a broad definition as defined by the supreme court.
As for pron/babe thread, I don't have a moral problem with it per se, and I even believe it's possible to discuss it maturely, but there's absolutely no question that it tends to attract the most retarded comments. There was some article that was linked in the D&D [chat] thread recently on the "50 hottest sci-fi babes," and I browsed through it. It was disgustingly juvenile, bordering on outright offensive. If you need a solid argument, how about "Pretty much every girl is going to find such a thread offensive, and so if we want girls to participate here, we can't have anything like that."?