I'm just speculating here, but do you think there is a correlation between people who like anime and people who like JRPGs? I know I like both, and I can't remember which I started with.
Oh, I'm sure there's a definite correlation. I know I got into anime because I saw some of it and thought, "Hey, that looks like Phantasy Star!"
That's one thing I really like about the SMT series. In FF there's usually not much difference between an enemy casting Fire or Ice on you, you'll take similar amounts of damage either way. (You could equip stuff to nullify elemental damage, but equipment like that doesn't come often.) But the different innate resistances your characters can have in SMT makes things more interesting.
I know that one of the things that turned me on to SMT was that buffs/debuffs and magic really mattered. I remember when I was in college, I bought Final Fantasy Tactics for the PS1. I started playing it and I meticulously built my party with a good balance of melee and magic, cultivating black mages and summoners and the like, and couldn't dream of a battle without my white mage.
One day I came home from work and found my roommate playing. I checked out his party and he had a team full of ninjas. I started telling him how dumb that was and then watched him destroy everything. At the time I was really upset. I'm messing around with Crisis Core right now and I all I do is spam attack all day because it's the most effective. Of course I'm only about three or four hours in so that might change, but I see no reason at this point to use anything other than my weapon.
Try doing that in SMT. See how long you last. I started playing and I had no idea what the hell a tarukaja was. I learned in a hurry though.
I tend to save magic for boss fights in Crisis Core. There's little reason to not spam attack on normal enemies, but I don't want to carve through a giant well of HP with normal attacks. And then there's, you know, the enemies who stay out of range for long periods of time that you can only hit with magic.
DVG on
Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I'm just speculating here, but do you think there is a correlation between people who like anime and people who like JRPGs? I know I like both, and I can't remember which I started with.
Oh, I'm sure there's a definite correlation. I know I got into anime because I saw some of it and thought, "Hey, that looks like Phantasy Star!"
I actually got into anime because of a fighting game for the SNES based on one. I had no idea who any of the characters were, because the game offered no backstory at all. It just threw every character from beginning to end into the mix.
i dont like anime but i enjoy a few jrpgs, not all of them tho.
Deaderinred on
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Grudgeblessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
I don't like JRPG's because I don't want my character to be a moody pretty-boy with funky hair. I can't really stand that aestetic. It just doesn't work for me.
Give me KOTOR, Oblivion or Mass Effect any day - or any other game where I can shape my character by myself.
Japanese storytelling somehow doesn't really do anything for me either. It's all been mentioned before in this thread; former friend turned evil, having some kind of destiny to save the world, father issues, teenage insecurities etc. etc.
I dislike most anime, and while I like JRPGs overall I take a lot more issue with the various tropes and cliches of the genre than the people I know who like anime. I'm not big on the way stories in JRPGs are presented are told really, either.
This is somewhat spoilery if you haven't played FFX, but it's within the first couple hours of the game, and it's really not much of a spoiler, so don't worry about it unless you're ridiculously anal.
I've been playing through Final Fantasy X, and one scene in particular has kept my thoughts. Not because it was good, but because it was so god-awful. Wakka was saying to the party that maybe Tidus was from the past, maybe his story was true - an obvious attempt to delude himself into thinking that his brother, Chappu, killed by Sin, might still be alive. And instead of the game handling this important scene in a delicate, sober way, Lulu bursts out, saying Wakka needs to quit it, she explains his past, blah blah blah, and the scene is ruined. Instead of allowing you to respond and piece things together yourself, everything is explained, until there's no ambiguity or charm left.
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
I'm fairly sure not all RPGs model their stories after FFX.
Not all RPGs (or even JRPGs) have blunt, unsubtle storylines.
I like me some RPGs. I've been playing them since way back in Kings Quest and NES days. I like having a character that becomes powerful and I see progressively get better. The draw of having something better around the corner for me to get is what brings me back. I also like a good story, but the side-quests and hidden challenges for people who have to find the best stuff are my bread and butter for RPGs.
Lost Odyssey is perhaps my most recent favorite. Despite the macabre story, I enjoyed the game immensely. I also kind of like systems of battle I can understand. I never did get the hang of magic in FF VIII. Part of the reason Lost Odyssey is sticking in my head so much is the throwbacks to classic styles of RPG gameplay that they used. Such good times where thinking is usually only required on the bosses or when you first step into a new area as a lower level character.
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
I'm fairly sure not all RPGs model their stories after FFX.
Not all RPGs (or even JRPGs) have blunt, unsubtle storylines.
It's just a recent example.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
I'm fairly sure not all RPGs model their stories after FFX.
Not all RPGs (or even JRPGs) have blunt, unsubtle storylines.
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
I'm fairly sure not all RPGs model their stories after FFX.
Not all RPGs (or even JRPGs) have blunt, unsubtle storylines.
It's just a recent example.
Actually FFX is over 7 years old.
Okay but that's not really what I'm talking about
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
This is somewhat spoilery if you haven't played FFX, but it's within the first couple hours of the game, and it's really not much of a spoiler, so don't worry about it unless you're ridiculously anal.
I've been playing through Final Fantasy X, and one scene in particular has kept my thoughts. Not because it was good, but because it was so god-awful. Wakka was saying to the party that maybe Tidus was from the past, maybe his story was true - an obvious attempt to delude himself into thinking that his brother, Chappu, killed by Sin, might still be alive. And instead of the game handling this important scene in a delicate, sober way, Lulu bursts out, saying Wakka needs to quit it, she explains his past, blah blah blah, and the scene is ruined. Instead of allowing you to respond and piece things together yourself, everything is explained, until there's no ambiguity or charm left.
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
I thought the dialogue and VO in FFX were abysmal overall (there were some well-acted characters in it though.) I quit playing about halfway through because I just couldn't stand it anymore. I can't stand Wakka. I have never hated a fictional character so much. I spent a good 20+ minutes just repeatedly beating the crap out of him in the beginning of Kingdom Hearts 1 just because I could.
NO. You're all liars! I hate Wakka and want him to die a painful fiery death.
I think a lot of the VO in that game was due to poor direction rather than poor actors. I like Wakka's VO artist as Bender & Marcus Fenix, and I like Tidu's VO as Ratchet. But in FFX, I hated them both. Seymour was pretty lame Saturday morning cartoon villain, too.
I'm just speculating here, but do you think there is a correlation between people who like anime and people who like JRPGs? I know I like both, and I can't remember which I started with.
Oh, I'm sure there's a definite correlation. I know I got into anime because I saw some of it and thought, "Hey, that looks like Phantasy Star!"
Do you wanna make out? I feel like we should make out.
I know I've posted this before, but Phantasy Star II turned me on to RPGs, and, for what it's worth, taught me how to read. It is also pretty much unsurpassed in terms of delivery and emotional impact. (I really should start the Let's Play I've been promising for a month now.)
Also, I seem to be anomalous in that I enjoy both JRPGs and WRPGs. I do, however, think that I take games a little less seriously than a lot of the people here. I spend a lot of time playing games, but I don't mind trite stories if the games have other redeeming qualities. In fact, a lot of the time I like hearing a trite story. If you watch television, you witness trite bullshit every day. People enjoy consuming stories on television that are no more redeeming than the stories from RPGs, and no one bats an eye. Do you ever enjoy reading a book by Stephen King? JRR Tolkien? Neil Gaiman? Guess what? You're reading something that is bottom of the fucking barrel in terms of literary merit. There's nothing wrong with liking works by any of these people. Who am I to tell you what to read?
Finally, I like playing games with characters who look like me. I'm a really effeminate guy, and this is one of the few genres that features characters who look like me. It's also one of the few genres that features competent and capable female characters. Sure, a lot of games still feature the damsel in distress (which, honestly, is ridiculous), but a good number of games feature strong female characters. Alys from Phantasy Star, for instance, is a straight up feminist character.
You're reading something that is bottom of the fucking barrel in terms of literary merit.
Unfortunately this forum has no "roll eyes" emoticon.
But in any event, no, not everyone watches trite bullshit on TV.
Sorry, but it's true. Tolkien was a great linguist, but he wasn't a great writer. In terms of the literary canon and impact on a grand scale, he doesn't even make it on to the charts.
However, if you read what I wrote, it doesn't fucking matter. You shouldn't let a bunch of uptight assholes tell you what to like.
Do you ever enjoy reading a book by Stephen King? JRR Tolkien? Neil Gaiman? Guess what? You're reading something that is bottom of the fucking barrel in terms of literary merit.
What exactly are you basing this on? Neil Gaiman's works have won plenty of literary awards, Tolkein is, well the father of all things fantasy, King has, uh, well I'm sure he has merit too. What is this merit, anyway? What you said makes absolutely no sense. Tell me where you are getting this from.
Bottom of the barrel in terms of Literary merit is stuff such as books set in the Forgotten Realms universe, books based off of video games, and cheap romance novels. But thats really besides the point.
Do you ever enjoy reading a book by Stephen King? JRR Tolkien? Neil Gaiman? Guess what? You're reading something that is bottom of the fucking barrel in terms of literary merit.
What exactly are you basing this on? Neil Gaiman's works have won plenty of literary awards, Tolkein is, well the father of all things fantasy, King has, uh, well I'm sure he has merit too. What is this merit, anyway? What you said makes absolutely no sense. Tell me where you are getting this from.
Maybe he's going to make that ridiculous "fantasy isn't real literature" argument?
Things don't have to have a large impact to be good literature, either.
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
That's one thing I really like about the SMT series. In FF there's usually not much difference between an enemy casting Fire or Ice on you, you'll take similar amounts of damage either way. (You could equip stuff to nullify elemental damage, but equipment like that doesn't come often.) But the different innate resistances your characters can have in SMT makes things more interesting.
I know that one of the things that turned me on to SMT was that buffs/debuffs and magic really mattered. I remember when I was in college, I bought Final Fantasy Tactics for the PS1. I started playing it and I meticulously built my party with a good balance of melee and magic, cultivating black mages and summoners and the like, and couldn't dream of a battle without my white mage.
One day I came home from work and found my roommate playing. I checked out his party and he had a team full of ninjas. I started telling him how dumb that was and then watched him destroy everything. At the time I was really upset. I'm messing around with Crisis Core right now and I all I do is spam attack all day because it's the most effective. Of course I'm only about three or four hours in so that might change, but I see no reason at this point to use anything other than my weapon.
Try doing that in SMT. See how long you last. I started playing and I had no idea what the hell a tarukaja was. I learned in a hurry though.
Spamming attack is usually how I do most of my damage in JRPGs as well. It's usually all you need. Mind you, some WRPGs are just as bad--but not the better ones.
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
FUCK. LITERATURE COURSES.
Pardon the strong response, but English Professors so full of shit it makes me see red. By and large (not every one of them, but in general), literary academia is the biggest collection of stuck-up elitist assholes you'll ever meet. Over the past century, they've twisted what's considered valuable in literature so much that what they value is incredibly far removed from what the common man values. They still respect the old literature of the common man--Shakespeare and Dickens, for instance--but anything written today that is accessible to the mainstream is mocked and shunned.
Fuck them all.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
What you're forgetting is that Literature with a capital L classes are bullshit circle-jerks for elitists.
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
Why would anyone care about "English Literary Canon" when the greatest writers are Russian?
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
What you're forgetting is that Literature with a capital L classes are bullshit circle-jerks for elitists.
Fuck. I guess I should just give up my professorship.
Oh, wait. I'm not going to do that. Sorry that you have to maintain the position (which is actually elitist) that taking an academic interest in literature is a circle-jerk.
But the thing is that "literary merit" is almost entirely subjective, so just because a Literature course or even common convention says that only these certain books and authors have any inherent worth is just something that I don't agree with and what caused me to dislike pretty much every English type course I ever took.
But the thing is that "literary merit" is almost entirely subjective, so just because a Literature course or even common convention says that only these certain books and authors have any inherent worth is just something that I don't agree with and what caused me to dislike pretty much every English type course I ever took.
Congratulations! You've come to the same conclusion that I did the first time I posted anything. Seriously, if all of the people attacking me would, you know, read what I'm writing, you too could have come to the same conclusion.
LoveIsUnity on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
But the thing is that "literary merit" is almost entirely subjective, so just because a Literature course or even common convention says that only these certain books and authors have any inherent worth is just something that I don't agree with and what caused me to dislike pretty much every English type course I ever took.
Wasn't that what the Unity dude was pretty much saying?
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
What you're forgetting is that Literature with a capital L classes are bullshit circle-jerks for elitists.
Fuck. I guess I should just give up my professorship.
Oh, wait. I'm not going to do that. Sorry that you have to maintain the position (which is actually elitist) that taking an academic interest in literature is a circle-jerk.
Oh, you are an English professor. This is even better.
Your kind's credo is to build up walls of encoded literature so high that we need your guidance to understand it. This is bullshit. The great literature of the past--the stuff that made the greatest lasting impact on the world--was written in the vernacular. For regular people. This alone should notify you that there is something seriously wrong with your worldview in regards to literature.
If a piece of fiction is not comprehensible to a regular person, without the guidance of "English courses", then it does not deserve to be remembered, and the only reason it is being enthroned is because English professors are doing it to inflate their own importance--intentionally or not.
Screw your definition of "literature".
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Sorry, I'd much prefer an argument over something I enjoy discussing over watching people bicker about literature semantics.
I like JRPGs but not really W/PC/Whatever/RPGs, but then I like over the top plots and grinding, and I guess certain anime which apparently has something to do with it? I mean, right now I'm still playing DQM:J and all you do in that game is grind, there's some stupid story but who cares about that, it's all about making new and exciting monsters. But in the same vain, I hate Pokemon.
Also, that Ultima game for the SNES was about the worst game I've ever played when I had it back in the day.
Schide on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2008
You know...what's funny is basically people are arguing back and forth that "A person can like a story if they want to..."
Yet, the last few pages of this thread have pretty much been the opposite.
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
What you're forgetting is that Literature with a capital L classes are bullshit circle-jerks for elitists.
Fuck. I guess I should just give up my professorship.
Oh, wait. I'm not going to do that. Sorry that you have to maintain the position (which is actually elitist) that taking an academic interest in literature is a circle-jerk.
Oh, you are an English professor. This is even better.
Your kind's credo is to build up walls of encoded literature so high that we need your guidance to understand it. This is bullshit. The great literature of the past--the stuff that made the greatest lasting impact on the world--was written in the vernacular. For regular people. This alone should notify you that there is something seriously wrong with your worldview in regards to literature.
If a piece of fiction is not comprehensible to a regular person, without the guidance of "English courses", then it does not deserve to be remembered, and the only reason it is being enthroned is because English professors are doing it to inflate their own importance--intentionally or not.
Screw your definition of "literature".
You just don't read, do you? I said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "this is what is considered great literature. However, other stuff is just as legitimate and has merit too!"
Please don't conflate me with other English teachers you've had. We're not all interchangeable, and, just because you've met a few assholes doesn't mean that we're assholes. I will be the first person to admit that the profession attracts a lot of spoiled jerkoffs. There are still a lot of old white guys with sticks up their asses. No doubt. However, we don't all have some type of hive mind in which we all decide to stage a massive hate on for whoever is popular at the moment. I have not made any judgment calls about what constitutes a great story. I was simply pointing out that the attitudes surrounding the stories of JRPGs seems to be akin to the attitude surrounding popular literature. If you like the story, who fucking cares whether or not it's considered great. If you enjoy it, isn't that good enough? Why do we all need to act like dicks?
I think the main contention here is that LoveIsUnity at first said that the works of a few popular authors had no merit and were at the bottom of the literary barrel, which to a lot of people is akin to saying they are worthless, which leads people who view differently to become hostile, as people are wont to do.
Add to that the fact that certain people have unrequited feelings of hostility towards the way American learning institutions' Literature departments are generally are run and what we have here is a lot of bad words and anger.
I'm speaking more in terms of the canon of English Literature (capital "L") than anything else. If you take a literature course, you will quickly learn that these people don't really even enter in to the equation. I'm not saying that these writers don't have any merit. I think the fact that they do have so many readers says volumes about their works. They tell really fun stories that are fun to read. Hey! That's just like the RPGs that people like to play.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
What you're forgetting is that Literature with a capital L classes are bullshit circle-jerks for elitists.
Fuck. I guess I should just give up my professorship.
Oh, wait. I'm not going to do that. Sorry that you have to maintain the position (which is actually elitist) that taking an academic interest in literature is a circle-jerk.
Oh, you are an English professor. This is even better.
Your kind's credo is to build up walls of encoded literature so high that we need your guidance to understand it. This is bullshit. The great literature of the past--the stuff that made the greatest lasting impact on the world--was written in the vernacular. For regular people. This alone should notify you that there is something seriously wrong with your worldview in regards to literature.
If a piece of fiction is not comprehensible to a regular person, without the guidance of "English courses", then it does not deserve to be remembered, and the only reason it is being enthroned is because English professors are doing it to inflate their own importance--intentionally or not.
Screw your definition of "literature".
You just don't read, do you? I said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "this is what is considered great literature. However, other stuff is just as legitimate and has merit too!"
Please don't conflate me with other English teachers you've had. We're not all interchangeable, and, just because you've met a few assholes doesn't mean that we're assholes. I will be the first person to admit that the profession attracts a lot of spoiled jerkoffs. There are still a lot of old white guys with sticks up their asses. No doubt. However, we don't all have some type of hive mind in which we all decide to stage a massive hate on for whoever is popular at the moment. I have not made any judgment calls about what constitutes a great story. I was simply pointing out that the attitudes surrounding the stories of JRPGs seems to be akin to the attitude surrounding popular literature. If you like the story, who fucking cares whether or not it's considered great. If you enjoy it, isn't that good enough? Why do we all need to act like dicks?
Fair enough, perhaps I took your statements the wrong way. I apologize if I gave offense.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
No, it's cool. You know what? I hate a lot of English professors too. If you ever want to know a few ways to piss off prescriptive grammarians, I'm happy to lend a hand.
I was probably being a little too subtle in the way I was setting up my argument. I was really just trying to point out that the giant hate on for JRPGs is really similar to the hate on in certain academic circles for popular literature. In fact, there's nothing wrong with popular literature or JRPGs. I've read the fuck out of Lord of the Rings, Sandman, and The Shining.
Posts
Oh, I'm sure there's a definite correlation. I know I got into anime because I saw some of it and thought, "Hey, that looks like Phantasy Star!"
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I tend to save magic for boss fights in Crisis Core. There's little reason to not spam attack on normal enemies, but I don't want to carve through a giant well of HP with normal attacks. And then there's, you know, the enemies who stay out of range for long periods of time that you can only hit with magic.
I actually got into anime because of a fighting game for the SNES based on one. I had no idea who any of the characters were, because the game offered no backstory at all. It just threw every character from beginning to end into the mix.
Give me KOTOR, Oblivion or Mass Effect any day - or any other game where I can shape my character by myself.
Japanese storytelling somehow doesn't really do anything for me either. It's all been mentioned before in this thread; former friend turned evil, having some kind of destiny to save the world, father issues, teenage insecurities etc. etc.
I've been playing through Final Fantasy X, and one scene in particular has kept my thoughts. Not because it was good, but because it was so god-awful. Wakka was saying to the party that maybe Tidus was from the past, maybe his story was true - an obvious attempt to delude himself into thinking that his brother, Chappu, killed by Sin, might still be alive. And instead of the game handling this important scene in a delicate, sober way, Lulu bursts out, saying Wakka needs to quit it, she explains his past, blah blah blah, and the scene is ruined. Instead of allowing you to respond and piece things together yourself, everything is explained, until there's no ambiguity or charm left.
I think this is my biggest problem with RPGs. JRPGs especially. I want subtly, I'm not ten years old and it's quite obvious to me that he's still in mourning, why spell everything out? For me, this is the biggest obstacle in JRPGs anymore. I think they should give the player some goddamn credit.
I'm fairly sure not all RPGs model their stories after FFX.
Not all RPGs (or even JRPGs) have blunt, unsubtle storylines.
Lost Odyssey is perhaps my most recent favorite. Despite the macabre story, I enjoyed the game immensely. I also kind of like systems of battle I can understand. I never did get the hang of magic in FF VIII. Part of the reason Lost Odyssey is sticking in my head so much is the throwbacks to classic styles of RPG gameplay that they used. Such good times where thinking is usually only required on the bosses or when you first step into a new area as a lower level character.
It's just a recent example.
Actually FFX is over 7 years old.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Okay but that's not really what I'm talking about
I thought the dialogue and VO in FFX were abysmal overall (there were some well-acted characters in it though.) I quit playing about halfway through because I just couldn't stand it anymore. I can't stand Wakka. I have never hated a fictional character so much. I spent a good 20+ minutes just repeatedly beating the crap out of him in the beginning of Kingdom Hearts 1 just because I could.
I mean seriously.
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I think a lot of the VO in that game was due to poor direction rather than poor actors. I like Wakka's VO artist as Bender & Marcus Fenix, and I like Tidu's VO as Ratchet. But in FFX, I hated them both. Seymour was pretty lame Saturday morning cartoon villain, too.
Do you wanna make out? I feel like we should make out.
I know I've posted this before, but Phantasy Star II turned me on to RPGs, and, for what it's worth, taught me how to read. It is also pretty much unsurpassed in terms of delivery and emotional impact. (I really should start the Let's Play I've been promising for a month now.)
Also, I seem to be anomalous in that I enjoy both JRPGs and WRPGs. I do, however, think that I take games a little less seriously than a lot of the people here. I spend a lot of time playing games, but I don't mind trite stories if the games have other redeeming qualities. In fact, a lot of the time I like hearing a trite story. If you watch television, you witness trite bullshit every day. People enjoy consuming stories on television that are no more redeeming than the stories from RPGs, and no one bats an eye. Do you ever enjoy reading a book by Stephen King? JRR Tolkien? Neil Gaiman? Guess what? You're reading something that is bottom of the fucking barrel in terms of literary merit. There's nothing wrong with liking works by any of these people. Who am I to tell you what to read?
Finally, I like playing games with characters who look like me. I'm a really effeminate guy, and this is one of the few genres that features characters who look like me. It's also one of the few genres that features competent and capable female characters. Sure, a lot of games still feature the damsel in distress (which, honestly, is ridiculous), but a good number of games feature strong female characters. Alys from Phantasy Star, for instance, is a straight up feminist character.
Unfortunately this forum has no "roll eyes" emoticon.
But in any event, no, not everyone watches trite bullshit on TV.
Sorry, but it's true. Tolkien was a great linguist, but he wasn't a great writer. In terms of the literary canon and impact on a grand scale, he doesn't even make it on to the charts.
However, if you read what I wrote, it doesn't fucking matter. You shouldn't let a bunch of uptight assholes tell you what to like.
What exactly are you basing this on? Neil Gaiman's works have won plenty of literary awards, Tolkein is, well the father of all things fantasy, King has, uh, well I'm sure he has merit too. What is this merit, anyway? What you said makes absolutely no sense. Tell me where you are getting this from.
Maybe he's going to make that ridiculous "fantasy isn't real literature" argument?
Things don't have to have a large impact to be good literature, either.
However, they're not likely to receive the type of attention that Woolf, Nabokov, Faulkner, or Ginsburg get from academics.
Spamming attack is usually how I do most of my damage in JRPGs as well. It's usually all you need. Mind you, some WRPGs are just as bad--but not the better ones.
FUCK. LITERATURE COURSES.
Pardon the strong response, but English Professors so full of shit it makes me see red. By and large (not every one of them, but in general), literary academia is the biggest collection of stuck-up elitist assholes you'll ever meet. Over the past century, they've twisted what's considered valuable in literature so much that what they value is incredibly far removed from what the common man values. They still respect the old literature of the common man--Shakespeare and Dickens, for instance--but anything written today that is accessible to the mainstream is mocked and shunned.
Fuck them all.
What you're forgetting is that Literature with a capital L classes are bullshit circle-jerks for elitists.
Why would anyone care about "English Literary Canon" when the greatest writers are Russian?
Fuck. I guess I should just give up my professorship.
Oh, wait. I'm not going to do that. Sorry that you have to maintain the position (which is actually elitist) that taking an academic interest in literature is a circle-jerk.
Congratulations! You've come to the same conclusion that I did the first time I posted anything. Seriously, if all of the people attacking me would, you know, read what I'm writing, you too could have come to the same conclusion.
Wasn't that what the Unity dude was pretty much saying?
Oh, you are an English professor. This is even better.
Your kind's credo is to build up walls of encoded literature so high that we need your guidance to understand it. This is bullshit. The great literature of the past--the stuff that made the greatest lasting impact on the world--was written in the vernacular. For regular people. This alone should notify you that there is something seriously wrong with your worldview in regards to literature.
If a piece of fiction is not comprehensible to a regular person, without the guidance of "English courses", then it does not deserve to be remembered, and the only reason it is being enthroned is because English professors are doing it to inflate their own importance--intentionally or not.
Screw your definition of "literature".
Sorry, I'd much prefer an argument over something I enjoy discussing over watching people bicker about literature semantics.
I like JRPGs but not really W/PC/Whatever/RPGs, but then I like over the top plots and grinding, and I guess certain anime which apparently has something to do with it? I mean, right now I'm still playing DQM:J and all you do in that game is grind, there's some stupid story but who cares about that, it's all about making new and exciting monsters. But in the same vain, I hate Pokemon.
Also, that Ultima game for the SNES was about the worst game I've ever played when I had it back in the day.
Yet, the last few pages of this thread have pretty much been the opposite.
Ahah, Devil's Advocate *vanish*
You just don't read, do you? I said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "this is what is considered great literature. However, other stuff is just as legitimate and has merit too!"
Please don't conflate me with other English teachers you've had. We're not all interchangeable, and, just because you've met a few assholes doesn't mean that we're assholes. I will be the first person to admit that the profession attracts a lot of spoiled jerkoffs. There are still a lot of old white guys with sticks up their asses. No doubt. However, we don't all have some type of hive mind in which we all decide to stage a massive hate on for whoever is popular at the moment. I have not made any judgment calls about what constitutes a great story. I was simply pointing out that the attitudes surrounding the stories of JRPGs seems to be akin to the attitude surrounding popular literature. If you like the story, who fucking cares whether or not it's considered great. If you enjoy it, isn't that good enough? Why do we all need to act like dicks?
Add to that the fact that certain people have unrequited feelings of hostility towards the way American learning institutions' Literature departments are generally are run and what we have here is a lot of bad words and anger.
Fair enough, perhaps I took your statements the wrong way. I apologize if I gave offense.
I was probably being a little too subtle in the way I was setting up my argument. I was really just trying to point out that the giant hate on for JRPGs is really similar to the hate on in certain academic circles for popular literature. In fact, there's nothing wrong with popular literature or JRPGs. I've read the fuck out of Lord of the Rings, Sandman, and The Shining.