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Why do people like RPG's?
AuburnTiger
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hello all. This is my first post and I thought I'd use this opportunity to try and get you guys to help me understand something, which is the appeal of RPGs.
This is a sincere question of mine, and I'm not bashing them; in fact, I WANT to like them. But there are just certain aspects that bug me.
For one, the constant leveling up. For example, the first RPG I tried to play was FF8. It seemed like I spent all my time with annoying random battles that really did nothing to move the story along, and the fights weren't all that interesting. I understand the appeal of working with stats and customizing characters for unique situations, but in that manner it was just boring. I felt like I was wasting my time just increasing a number.
Second, the combat system. Now I know that some games offer alternatives to the turn based fighting system, but I haven't played any of them. Do you all like turn based fighting? Casting spells and such? I just find real time fighting to be so much more challenging and entertaining. I think Shenmue was a good example of this, I liked the fighting a lot on there.
I also find it a bit annoying that I often have to have a "party," and manage all of their stats and such. This seems to be a recurring theme as well.
I'd really appreciate it if you all could tell me why you like RPGs. Is it the story? I love a good story too, but those are found in a lot of non-RPG games (Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Halo). Is it the party system? Leveling up? The combat?
Just tell me what is unique to RPGs that you love.
This is a sincere question of mine, and I'm not bashing them; in fact, I WANT to like them. But there are just certain aspects that bug me.
For one, the constant leveling up. For example, the first RPG I tried to play was FF8. It seemed like I spent all my time with annoying random battles that really did nothing to move the story along, and the fights weren't all that interesting. I understand the appeal of working with stats and customizing characters for unique situations, but in that manner it was just boring. I felt like I was wasting my time just increasing a number.
Second, the combat system. Now I know that some games offer alternatives to the turn based fighting system, but I haven't played any of them. Do you all like turn based fighting? Casting spells and such? I just find real time fighting to be so much more challenging and entertaining. I think Shenmue was a good example of this, I liked the fighting a lot on there.
I also find it a bit annoying that I often have to have a "party," and manage all of their stats and such. This seems to be a recurring theme as well.
I'd really appreciate it if you all could tell me why you like RPGs. Is it the story? I love a good story too, but those are found in a lot of non-RPG games (Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Halo). Is it the party system? Leveling up? The combat?
Just tell me what is unique to RPGs that you love.
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I'm not sure if I'm getting the point across, but take for example FF9, it's a pretty linear game especially when you compare it to stuff like Oblivion or Morrowind, but the world that was created and fleshed out is amazing to walk through. Towns are filled with life, and it feels a whole lot like you belong in another world. For me, it's all about escapism, and it's the same reason why I like FFXII (a really nice universe imo), why I love Pokemon (seriously, it's the happiest world in the video gaming world) and why I enjoy KOTOR and Mass Effect.
It's all about escaping from your tedious, tiring world and stepping into another world filled with excitement, action and joy. Maybe even going to a world that is fleshed out to the extent that with a little imagination, it feels real.
Being a hero in these fleshed out, imaginative worlds help too.
That, plus a lot of people really like managing stats.
My first reaction to this was to post, "well, why don't people like you like RPGs?" but you actually covered your bases.
So anyway, can you explain why you like a certain genre of games? And remember that RPGs are an exceedingly broad category of games. You've got your Japanese Final Fantasy-style RPGs like what you tried. But then you've got action RPGs, strategy/tactical RPGs, text-based RPGs, Western RPGs, etc.
Heck, there's even variation within these genres and even within the same developer. Final Fantasy and the Secret of Mana games are developed by the same company, but they're totally different styles. You noted the FF style, but in SoM games it's more action oriented - you're always on the field screen, your enemies appear before you, you push a button and your character slashes at them, etc.
Anyway, maybe it's just not your thing. And there's nothing wrong with that - there's probably going to be a lot of posts here saying you're not missing much. It's just a matter of taste.
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We are legion.
Play KOTOR, Mass Effect, or Jade Empire. When you come back, give us your thoughts. These are all RPG's but distinctly different. I love them to death. You'll have a blast with atleast one of them, I guarantee you that much.
See that's what I loved so much about Shenmue (and why I would kill for a continuation), I felt like I was living in another world. As another poster pointed out, my experience with RPGs is limited and perhaps I should try other types like Action RPGs. I've bought Fable: The Lost Chapters to try out and see how I like it, though I haven't started the game yet (been too busy loving SC IV).
I do plan on checking out Mass Effect, due to the recommendations by a few friends.
Final Fantasy does not have stat management, and most (if not all) of them have a function to choose the best possible equipment for your character. Try Crisis Core for the PSP if you have a PSP.
Oh man, you must. Get it on PC for all the sexy patches and bonus DLC.
If you can, get it on eBay. I got a completely brand new, 100% legit copy for $14 on ebay. Turns out it was an English edition being sold by a Taiwanese reseller - we both got we wanted as a fair price. You don't have to, considering the time spent in shipping, but this is my general recommendation for all purchases. I live off of eBay religiously.
The biggest thing about RPGs is that they tend to contain very little of that one niggling little concept that is legion throughout most other genres, and that's frustration. When something goes wrong in an RPG, there's pretty much always a clear reason why. Bad equipment, low levels, cast fire on the fire demon, etc. There is always a conceivable solution to whatever gets in your way. The RPGs where this is not immediately obvious (not that I'm thinking about Hoshigami here or anything) tend to be... rather unpopular.
It's a lot harder to tell when you're doing something wrong in an FPS, platformer, artificial dog raiser, whatever, and then when you die, more often then not, it's hard to pin down what your damning mistake was... barring the occasional leap into the abyss. If you're having fun, you throw yourself right back into it and maybe this time the cosmic dice will fall in a way such that you will not die, or your new knowledge of the future will let you anticipate whatever killed you. If you have no clue why you can't jump that gap or how you're supposed to dodge that sawblade, then the game stops being fun immediately and controllers beeline for the screen.
Of course, many people go crazy from the pacing and exposition that go hand in hand with the genre, or throw aside their various levelling or equipping options and get pissed at the perceived forced investment of time and effort and such, but that's a different story. Basically, enough engagement in the flashy lights or people talking or whatever is going on on the screen to keep attention from wandering, and then the far lowered tendency to confuse and anger the player.
And the OP was the equivalent of "Explain how people can like the color red, because I dislike any aspects or attributes the color red contains." It answres the question it asked, then asks for an answer.
I find this comes to the forefront most in Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy titles.
Seriously, you haven't lived until you've taken on Final Fantasy X without ever opening the Sphere Grid.
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edit: I guess I should say the cool part is having an impact on the story. Halo and RE are cool and all, but you're basically just killing dudes until you get to the next cutscene (never could get into the MSG games; fuck their controls, but that's another story.)
That being said, it sounds like what you really don't like is J(apanese)RPGs. JRPG is a particular style that's basically exemplified by the final fantasy series, and yes, the random, repetitive battles can get kinda old. Play KOTOR or Mass Effect, or shit go play the Fallouts or any of the Infinity Engine games (well, baldur's gate and planescape, anyway), and you'll have a totally different experience.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This.
Well ok, i don't hate real time RPG's (Zelda, the Tales of series are all good by me) but i do prefer the turn based approach.
And it's even better when the game doesn't insist that you be very british about it and stand in line untill it's your turn to have a go, but lets you move about.
Man, i love that shit.
As far as i'm concerned a RPG can have the most boring, clichéd story ever with bland characters i don't give two fucks about, but as long as it has a very good battle system, i'll be happy.
For example, RPGs in the Square-Enix mould present half their fun by challenging me to break their code. They're not particularly difficult, but the challenge isn't beating the game but rather slaying the final boss in one round, with just one character, at level one, with the TV off, while having sex with a burning lawnmower. The game mechanics are usually pretty imaginative, too, and fun. Take Final Fantasy X, for example; it's a game with an absolutely dogshit-stupid story, but one of the most fun character development mechanisms around (the sphere grid). "I should probably take my white mage through the implied path toward more white mage skills, but fuck it, let's make her a behemoth-munching warrior."
RPGs with a collection mechanic (Pokemon, Shin Megami Tensei, card battlers even though I'm not really a fan) are fun because you get to invest time tinkering and fusing and breeding and shaping the ultimate team.
Western RPGs, be they d20-based or more inventive, usually present great worlds with great stories and characters, and less of an emphasis on becoming a god through battling. The appeal here for me is more an exploratory/engrossing story one.
There are a lot more but I'm tired of writing this post.
Is there any way I can tell which games take the JRPG approach and which ones don't? Do companies like Square-Enix focus on one particular style of RPG?
The hype had a name, it was "Project Ego."
Man, that was the only game I can think of where the hype around the game was so radically different then what was finally offered. If "horse armor" is the quintessential model for bad Xbox Live Marketplace abuse, then Fable has to be the quinteseential model for over-excited marketing.
Really, the game wasn't truly specifically marketed as it was hyped. It was just talked about, a lot. And all those, "We want to do this, and we're trying to do that..." became, in the gaming press. "Fable will have this, and Fable will have that..." I don't even blame Molyneux really. I think he's too hard on himself for it.
Fable was a great game.
There aren't as many of them being made anymore, because hardware's advanced and more American companies are making RPGs. Basically avoid anything with automatic turn-based combat, and broadly, anything with anime-style characters on the cover, and you should get by okay.
Bioware's games are sort of a halfway approach; combat is real time, but they let you pause at will to issue orders and such. It's a neat way to keep a feeling of immediacy, without any of the loss of control.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The ones that have a lead character that is a metrosexual with ridiculous hair are usually JRPGS.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
For the bargain bin price its at now, sure. It's hardly an RPG, though.
Ahh, ok; my mistake.
You know, sometimes people like things you don't like. This is like saying "I don't like oranges. They taste like oranges. They look like oranges. Are there oranges that taste like apples? Why do people like oranges? I don't understand."
I'll vouch for Jade Empire, though, as an RPG that strays from the typical number crunching. It's just a fun game.
I definitely would; but it's more of a Zelda style adventure game than anything else. Really fun though.
To the OP: Definitly try Mass Effect. I'm the farthest thing in the world from an RPG enthusiast (mostly because fantasy settings dont' appeal to me); but ME's combination of sci-fi, tech, and wonderfully presented story completely hooked me.
I'll probably give Fallout 3 a shot too; I think the key for me regarding RPGs is minimal stat-wrangling with the optoin of real time combat.
Nowadays everything has leveling up and stat growth, from God of War to Madden to Tiger Woods, and everything that isn't sports or racing has a decent story with cutscenes and everything.
The only thing left that makes an RPG an RPG is an excessive story and game length, and generally having a ton of items to equip and use. I mean Oblivion is an RPG and it's hardly turn based. Grand Theft Auto is practically an RPG now.
But anyway, this is a dumb complaint:
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a game that doesn't have a lot of pointless, plot-unrelated random battles. That's what a platformer or brawler is, it's just a slightly different format. And like I said, if you don't like turn based, so many RPGs blur the line nowadays that you can find a good active one to play that's basically like playing God of War. Try something like Tales of Symphonia.
Wait, what? No. For god's sake, no. Why are we trying to make him hate RPGs more? That's further towards the unforgiving number-crunching side, not away from it. Although some roguelikes are simpler and more forgiving.
wow, I'm exactly the opposite, I go out of my way to beef my characters up, statistically and with the most powerful/rare equipment. I played FFX filled up Auron's, Wakka's and Tidus's sphere grids completely, realized I'd missed a chance at a legendary weapon without saving so restarted, then filled up every chars sphere grids. This include deleting unwanted spheres and adding in my own using the rare spheres from the monster arena place. Good Times.
That's what I love about RPGs like FF, the fact that you can go out and grind, come back and lay waste to everything in the dungeon including the boss. Except FF8, I hated the fact the enemies got stronger with you. Also to a lesser extent, Oblivion.
I've never tried completing any game with minimal stats as I hate the tedium of dying and I'm sure if I tried I would die a lot more, would be boring for me.
Also if a game has New Game+ option, I'm there. BEEFCAKE! BEEFCAKE!
With say, FPS games, more often than not the game is all about well-tweaked gameplay, online competition, and less emphasis on story. The single-player section is more like a training ground for the later online play, not unlike Pokémon, I guess. There are notable exceptions though, such as System Shock II (all about the story and atmosphere, but this is an FPS with RPG-like elements, so...) and Half Life 2 (so I'm told, as I've never really played it).
However, if you're looking for games that you might perhaps enjoy...
KotOR and Jade Empire (multiplatform) are both very solid games in the RPG genre from a Western style. KotOR is more traditional (it uses a D20 system, turn based combat, etc) while Jade Empire is more of an action RPG. Mass Effect, though I've not played it, is from the same people, but integrates a cover/FPS style to the combat, which you might find more enthralling than turn-based strategy-like stuff.
The World Ends With You (DS) and Persona 3 (PS2) are good examples of both an action RPG (TWEWY) and a traditional RPG (P3) in the Japanese style.
Of all of these games, the only one with any sort of grind in it is Persona 3, as it is VERY traditional, and yet also very good. KotOR and Jade Empire don't seem to be grindy at all, though I have more experience with KotOR. TWEWY totally gets rid of level-grind, as all levels really do (other than give you a few extra HP) is allow you to lower your level so that you can increase the drop rates for items. And it tells you the drop rates for the items at each difficulty level, so that you can manipulate your drop rate modifier so that you have a 100% chance of getting the item, so you're not farming for it, which is awesome! Plus, it has a really interesting combat system that's not turnbased, and is instead action-based over two screens. Really well done. It basically takes all of the stuff that people complain about (like random battles - did I mention there are no random battles in TWEWY? You fight when you want to, apart from story-boss-battles, and one section where you fight a battle every time you move to a new location - which isn't -really- random, so...) and puts in a lot of stuff to take away the tedious grind play-style and the move away from the turnbased combat. Which is nice! Also, Squeenix are notorious for pretentious emo-amnesiac-asshole protagonists, and they really mock themselves with this one - the main guy starts out that way, but has a good -reason- for it, and is dismissive of how he acted in the past once you get to a certain point in the story, which is about a third of the way through. Anyhow. Less gush, more 'hope you find something you enjoy'.
Anyhow, there's not a great deal more I can say.
For example, if you as a player have crappy aim and reflexes then any FPS game you play, your character will ultimately suck, it won't matter how much you try you'll always have that limitation floating over you. In an RPG, because your potential as a character is determined by stats, your character can reach levels of performance that you yourself cannot.
I don't know about that. It's definitely true that in most normal turn-based RPGs you can always level up a lot and win through brute force, but isn't that still another limitation?
In FPSs, the people with the best hand-eye coordination win. In RPGs, the people with the most time on their hands win. Believe it or not, some people don't have the time it takes.
A good RPG will rely more on strategic selection and use of certain characters/abilities/stats than on a base "your level is higher, you win" scale. Sure, that level thing is always available, but games like Persona 3 rely more on strategy than on level.
I guess you could argue that this creates a barrier in the form of your intellect, but RPGs are rarely so challenging as to block you out; it's more adaptability in my eyes.
Very few have a worthwhile story, but the illusion of choice that they present can be compelling.