Guh, I don't mind if they change the Watchmen ending a bit, but I hope it's not the one they theorize in that article.
Blaming whatever crisis there is on Dr. Manhattan instead of an alien attack changes the whole context of the ending. It just seems to me like it wouldn't inspire the same kind of action on the part of governments, and would in fact serve to separate them further, instead of unify them. Whatever the cause of the crisis, it has to be external to the earth.
I see nothing wrong with them blaming the attack on Manhattan. The only way that it would separate the nations is if Manhattan was seen as the U.S. overstepping its boundaries, but he blew up New York, so it's clear he would have no national alliance.
It essentially boils down to the same thing, there is a threat to all nations equally that is greater than what any one nation could handle. No one would know when Manhattan would potentially attack again or where, just as no one would know when giant space-vadge would attack again or where.
But Manhattan was an american citizen and a major part of their military and nuclear defense plan. If he went crazy, blew up a city and threatened to do so elsewhere, america would get a lot of flak and blame for that, especialy if Veidt's news campaign against Manhattan still takes place.
It wouldn't have anywhere near as unifying effect as the giant-space-squid-vagina. If it were just Veidt blowing up cities anonymously it wouldn't be so bad, but framing Manhattan changes that a lot.
Agree. I rather see something like Hayter's ending, because realistically speaking(and despite a lot of things, Watchmen is suppose to be slightly realistic) I could imagine the whole Manhattan thing to actually bring war closer to us. If nothing else, I couldn't see it being sustained for long before bitterness and blame started.
Hayter's ending would be better, but still not great. It might avert the immediate threat of war, but it would be an incredibly tense peace, and I can't imagine it would last long. You can't establish peace by just threatening to murder evryone involved.
The alien worked because it was a possible threat that was totally foreign to everyone on earth; that'd work as a unifying force a lot better than PLAY NICE OR I'LL BLOW YOU THE FUCK UP.
Hayter's ending works better than the squid because it takes what I see as being the 3 real-world deviations in Watchmen down to 1. Those being
1. A guy like Manhattan can exist.
2. Telepaths exist.
3. Veidt has the super-science necessary to create such an alien being and teleport it across the planet. It's a far cry from a lynx with rabbit ears.
Hayter's ending works better than the squid because it takes what I see as being the 3 real-world deviations in Watchmen down to 1. Those being
1. A guy like Manhattan can exist.
2. Telepaths exist.
3. Veidt has the super-science necessary to create such an alien being and teleport it across the planet. It's a far cry from a lynx with rabbit ears.
But, to be fair, in Hayter's script, Manhattan gives Silk Spectre II the abillity to shoot fireballs from her hands as a birthday gift.
I think the main problem with blaming it all on Manhattan is that he is a fairly known quantity to the world at large. They may not understand him, but he's been around long enough that they are all pretty familiar with him.
The squid on the other hand was totally out of the blue, noone knows what the hell is going on and whether or not they are about to be invaded by aliens or what. The peace is called because everyone goes "oh shit, we've got bigger things to worry about than each other!" It's the fear of the terrifying unknown and the recognition that it is a world-wide problem despite the "attack" being in America.
I'm just not convinced that Manhattan, even if he is framed for destroying a city, is going to evoke the same level of spontaneous worldwide lets-put-this-petty-squabbling-behind-us-to-deal-with-this-world-wide-threat. He isn't an unknown threat, he is a defined quality. I'm not saying they wouldn't be scared shitless... but they would know exactly what they are scared of (or think they know anyway).
Plus, given his obvious ties to America I would have thought the rest of the world would be more likely to go "god I'm glad he isn't over here" rather than "lets drop everything to help out the americans because the superhuman they've lorded over us for so long has gone nuts". And if he is framed attacking somewhere other than america then the nukes would start flying before anyone realised he wasn't just following orders.
I don't know... perhaps it's going to be handled perfectly and I'm worrying about nothing, but I'm not really sold based on what I've heard.
Hayter's ending works better than the squid because it takes what I see as being the 3 real-world deviations in Watchmen down to 1. Those being
1. A guy like Manhattan can exist.
2. Telepaths exist.
3. Veidt has the super-science necessary to create such an alien being and teleport it across the planet. It's a far cry from a lynx with rabbit ears.
But, to be fair, in Hayter's script, Manhattan gives Silk Spectre II the abillity to shoot fireballs from her hands as a birthday gift.
I did say I was just talking about the ending. And just the good part of it.
You know, I'm as excited for Watchmen as the next guy and I do think the graphic novel is one of the best things I've ever read.
Having said that, I've been thinking a lot about this movie and I think if I wasn't already enamored with the whole thing and was looking at it objectively from an outsider perspective I would think that the whole thing looks kind of silly.
I don't know, with the news of the ending changing I think it's pushed me more towards Alan Moore's line of thinking. I just don't see how they can apropriately capture the more subtle aspects of the novel. To me, it's the subtle bits that really make the story. Taken at face value, the plot isn't really anything to write home about but from everything I'm seeing it looks like the movie is only going to focus on the core plot.
Don't get me wrong. I'm excited for this - I'm just becoming more and more sceptical as the release draws nearer. If this thing goes off the wrong way it will completely turn people and give them the wrong idea about just how amazing the novel is.
I think that the core plot actually lends itself to a very enjoyable, but average, movie experience. I mean, the core plot is basically the incredibles for adults. If you wanted to, you could turn the whole thing into a very popcorn oriented flick, even if you kept the ending (or kept the spirit of the ending).
To me, what makes Watchmen (and by association, Dark Knight Returns) art, and landmark works in this medium, is the ability of both writers to capture the spirit and experience of the climax of the cold war. I was born in 1985, so my first memories of any kind of conflict is a barely conscious awareness of the Persian gulf. Nothing that I have ever read has made me realize what it must have been like to constantly, and realistically, think that the world was about to burn away like these two books. I think that Watchmen does it better than DKR, if only because the ending is such a wonderful examination of the period. I guess spoilered for ending talk
The fact that Ozymandias, arguably the smartest man in the world, has decided that the only way to get humanity to come together is to make up a deadly extra-terrestrial threat is amazingly chilling. The book has a character driven plot, sure, but the characters just form the forefront to a background, that (I think) is actually more important in the long run. That's why the news reports, the pirate story, and the story of the people in the street are given such prominence.
I guess my point is that, more than plot points or lines or something, the thing that I will be watching for most is for the movie to get that spirit across. If they can't do that, the film will never be any more than an average comic book movie.
I like having HD copies of stuff like this resident on my hard drive, instead of having to redownload from the net every time I want to watch it or show it to someone.
Whats the name of the song at the end of the new trailer
it's "take a bow" by muse, off of their black holes and revelations album.
i really liked the way it seems to be setting the movie up to be about a team of heroes coming back together to save the world one last time. that'll be a kick in the teeth for people going in unprepared.
also, loved the way jon looked (especially the "leave me alone!" bit) and loved the fact that you can see the mob burning superman in effigy towards the end. very nice touch.
edit- rated R for "strong graphic violence, sexuality, nudity, and language."
one thing i didn't like was the way it made them sound like they were a group called "watchmen". the way the trailer presents it, though, i'm not sure if that's just unrelated audio being edited together for the trailer. if it's not, well, then i'll complain about it.
I was reading a celeb site just now, and I read this, which is just something I thought should be shared even though I generally hate all celebs on principle unless I can jerk it to the women whose makeup and cosmetic surgeries have made them attractive.
I feel compelled to cram in my gushing love letter to Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach. It's Kelly Leak. Kelly Leak god dammit! How can you not love a guy who survives this awful fucking town. Huge star in his teens, then didn’t have a single role from 1993 to 2006. For 13 years he drove limos, finished furniture, and delivered pizzas, now he is to Watchmen what Wolverine is to X-Men. Am I the only one who finds that amazing? People come to LA and say, "I'll give it 6 months and see how it goes". 13 years! The dude failed for 13 god damn years, yet still killed it when someone finally gave him a chance. His Hollywood comeback couldn’t be any more dramatic unless he did riding a 10-story robot that looks like a tiger.
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The alien worked because it was a possible threat that was totally foreign to everyone on earth; that'd work as a unifying force a lot better than PLAY NICE OR I'LL BLOW YOU THE FUCK UP.
1. A guy like Manhattan can exist.
2. Telepaths exist.
3. Veidt has the super-science necessary to create such an alien being and teleport it across the planet. It's a far cry from a lynx with rabbit ears.
The squid on the other hand was totally out of the blue, noone knows what the hell is going on and whether or not they are about to be invaded by aliens or what. The peace is called because everyone goes "oh shit, we've got bigger things to worry about than each other!" It's the fear of the terrifying unknown and the recognition that it is a world-wide problem despite the "attack" being in America.
I'm just not convinced that Manhattan, even if he is framed for destroying a city, is going to evoke the same level of spontaneous worldwide lets-put-this-petty-squabbling-behind-us-to-deal-with-this-world-wide-threat. He isn't an unknown threat, he is a defined quality. I'm not saying they wouldn't be scared shitless... but they would know exactly what they are scared of (or think they know anyway).
Plus, given his obvious ties to America I would have thought the rest of the world would be more likely to go "god I'm glad he isn't over here" rather than "lets drop everything to help out the americans because the superhuman they've lorded over us for so long has gone nuts". And if he is framed attacking somewhere other than america then the nukes would start flying before anyone realised he wasn't just following orders.
I don't know... perhaps it's going to be handled perfectly and I'm worrying about nothing, but I'm not really sold based on what I've heard.
I did say I was just talking about the ending. And just the good part of it.
Because the casual aspects of the youth culture buy into that shit.
"Hey guys, wassup?"
"Oh god turn that off OH GOD IT BURNS"
werent the ones before the exact same as the promos for the Watchmen comic book?
Though "I'm used to going out at 3 AM and doing something stupid" when you're dressed like Silk Spectre sounds a lot like "I am a hooker".
are you aware of how much of an old woman that statement makes you sound?
It's because you are terrible.
Also, the 3am comment along with her comment does make her sound like a dumb slut, if you haven't read Watchmen. If you have then it's just a quote.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Having said that, I've been thinking a lot about this movie and I think if I wasn't already enamored with the whole thing and was looking at it objectively from an outsider perspective I would think that the whole thing looks kind of silly.
I don't know, with the news of the ending changing I think it's pushed me more towards Alan Moore's line of thinking. I just don't see how they can apropriately capture the more subtle aspects of the novel. To me, it's the subtle bits that really make the story. Taken at face value, the plot isn't really anything to write home about but from everything I'm seeing it looks like the movie is only going to focus on the core plot.
Don't get me wrong. I'm excited for this - I'm just becoming more and more sceptical as the release draws nearer. If this thing goes off the wrong way it will completely turn people and give them the wrong idea about just how amazing the novel is.
To me, what makes Watchmen (and by association, Dark Knight Returns) art, and landmark works in this medium, is the ability of both writers to capture the spirit and experience of the climax of the cold war. I was born in 1985, so my first memories of any kind of conflict is a barely conscious awareness of the Persian gulf. Nothing that I have ever read has made me realize what it must have been like to constantly, and realistically, think that the world was about to burn away like these two books. I think that Watchmen does it better than DKR, if only because the ending is such a wonderful examination of the period. I guess spoilered for ending talk
I guess my point is that, more than plot points or lines or something, the thing that I will be watching for most is for the movie to get that spirit across. If they can't do that, the film will never be any more than an average comic book movie.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Re: the "what's wrong with your eyes" bit
And we got our first Spirit review. Sounds as awful as it looked.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39090
Any links to downloadable Quicktime versions yet?
I like having HD copies of stuff like this resident on my hard drive, instead of having to redownload from the net every time I want to watch it or show it to someone.
it's "take a bow" by muse, off of their black holes and revelations album.
i really liked the way it seems to be setting the movie up to be about a team of heroes coming back together to save the world one last time. that'll be a kick in the teeth for people going in unprepared.
also, loved the way jon looked (especially the "leave me alone!" bit) and loved the fact that you can see the mob burning superman in effigy towards the end. very nice touch.
edit- rated R for "strong graphic violence, sexuality, nudity, and language."
But if it isn't it doesn't bother me much.
just sold me for a first day viewing
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