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Game On: MTG

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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    Bendery wrote:
    I plan on finding a way to incorporate Tefiri in to a deck. Just because Tefiri is my favorite planeswalker of all time, and he's now finally a card. Doesn't say much for how strong he actually is considering no other planeswalker has a card.

    But it's Tefiri <3

    I havn't even really looked through the set yet, and this is the set I plan on going T2 with, cause I hated Ravnica/guildpack/dissension

    Yeah. Stupid Ravnica block.

    _J_ on
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Bendery wrote:
    I plan on finding a way to incorporate Tefiri in to a deck. Just because Tefiri is my favorite planeswalker of all time, and he's now finally a card. Doesn't say much for how strong he actually is considering no other planeswalker has a card.

    But it's Tefiri <3

    I havn't even really looked through the set yet, and this is the set I plan on going T2 with, cause I hated Ravnica/guildpack/dissension
    Blind Seer from Invasion is Urza in disguise. But say we are only talking about TS then you still have: Dralnu, Jaya Ballard, Kaervek, Lim-Dul, and Mishra, in addition to Terfiri. And that dosent count charecters who bacame planeswakers after they were cards (story wise).

    Bedlam on
  • DrakmathusDrakmathus Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    uh, jaya did become a planeswalker. This is supposed to be teferi before he became a planeswalker... TIME spiral. get it?

    Drakmathus on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Speaking of Grapeshot. My friend has this sick deck which assuming everything goes right can do 40, 50, 80 damage turn 4. And that's not uncommon. It heavily relies upon Seathing songs, lotus blooms, and an izzet, along with grapeshot or lava hammers. It is one of the hardest decks I've seen to play. It's fun, but not particularly strong (it relies upon land destruction to delay the game if you don't get the combo, it is very weak on creatures, and has no life gain or draw except wheel of fate. It can pull some combos off with wheel of fate though). We decided to call it "Chrono Trigger", since it has a very time-mage/'gattling or trigger' kind of feel to it. I'll see if I can't get the full deck construction to you guys. We, being misers, only play with the cards we get, so obviously this deck could be better.

    Anyways I managed a third turn win with CT:
    2x Lotus Bloom goes off. I have 2? mountains on the table.
    Get 3 Blue, and 3 red from lotus bloom.
    Use three of the red to play Seething Song (+5 Red mana).
    Use three of the blue and four of the red to play Eye of the Storm.
    Seething Song with the last three red, goes into the Eye.
    Grapeshot goes into the eye. For 6 or 7 at this point.
    The rest of the cards in my hand were burn, or land destruction, sorcs/insts that let me access everything in the eye. It didn't matter since they were all 5 costs or less.

    The deck is based around suspending cards at the right time so everything goes off at once, finishing opponents off with powerful storm cards. You're constantly sitting there going, "Do I lava hammer a creature so I can take less damage, or should I save it? Do I add another card to my suspend track so that next turn, or try to clockspin it later?"

    Obviously it's not the greatest deck ever, Discard slaughters it, haste can overcome it, and control can overcome it if control knows what to do against it (Counter anything that gives mana, replicate, or copy.). Even if you play everything right and your opponent has no control over you, you really have only a 2/3rds chance of getting a winning combo. Still, it's just fun to play.

    The combo I've been hearing the most about with Grapeshot is Enduring Renewal + Wild Cantor.

    Get wild cantor out turn 1, mana accel into white mana with BoP / Terramorphic Expanse / Search for Tomorrow. By turn 4, play Enduring Renewal.

    Sac Wild Cantor, it goes to your graveyard and because of Enduring Renewal immediately returns to play. Infinite Mana combo on turn 4...grapeshot for the win.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • ShuThePirateShuThePirate Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Drakmathus wrote:
    uh, jaya did become a planeswalker. This is supposed to be teferi before he became a planeswalker... TIME spiral. get it?

    In the Time Spiral book...

    [realspoiler:8188eb4bbe]Teferi becomes mortal at the end[/realspoiler:8188eb4bbe]

    ShuThePirate on
  • ShuThePirateShuThePirate Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    PipTheFair wrote:
    PipTheFair wrote:
    _J_ wrote:
    PipTheFair wrote:
    So, I'm almost possitive somebody commented on it but I can't seem to find it. Does anyone know if the premade Slivers deck is any good or not?

    A new Sliver deck or one of the older ones?
    I thought they had a premade on out.
    Here ya go, http://www.wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=timespiral&decknum=4&lang=en

    It's decent. I like the gemstone mines more than anything.
    Hmm, that deck is mighty mana costly as far as slivers are concerned.
    Yeah, I guess they thought the Gemstone Slivers might help some, but it really is pretty high on the curve considering the flavor of Slivers.

    The deck actually works quite well. If you can get one gemstone sliver out, you can basically play any card in it. I added blue to mine, its a little tougher but with terramorphic expanse I havent had much trouble.

    ShuThePirate on
  • Alexan DriteAlexan Drite Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Speaking of Grapeshot. My friend has this sick deck which assuming everything goes right can do 40, 50, 80 damage turn 4. And that's not uncommon. It heavily relies upon Seathing songs, lotus blooms, and an izzet, along with grapeshot or lava hammers. It is one of the hardest decks I've seen to play. It's fun, but not particularly strong (it relies upon land destruction to delay the game if you don't get the combo, it is very weak on creatures, and has no life gain or draw except wheel of fate. It can pull some combos off with wheel of fate though). We decided to call it "Chrono Trigger", since it has a very time-mage/'gattling or trigger' kind of feel to it. I'll see if I can't get the full deck construction to you guys. We, being misers, only play with the cards we get, so obviously this deck could be better.

    Anyways I managed a third turn win with CT:
    2x Lotus Bloom goes off. I have 2? mountains on the table.
    Get 3 Blue, and 3 red from lotus bloom.
    Use three of the red to play Seething Song (+5 Red mana).
    Use three of the blue and four of the red to play Eye of the Storm.
    Seething Song with the last three red, goes into the Eye.
    Grapeshot goes into the eye. For 6 or 7 at this point.
    The rest of the cards in my hand were burn, or land destruction, sorcs/insts that let me access everything in the eye. It didn't matter since they were all 5 costs or less.

    The deck is based around suspending cards at the right time so everything goes off at once, finishing opponents off with powerful storm cards. You're constantly sitting there going, "Do I lava hammer a creature so I can take less damage, or should I save it? Do I add another card to my suspend track so that next turn, or try to clockspin it later?"

    Obviously it's not the greatest deck ever, Discard slaughters it, haste can overcome it, and control can overcome it if control knows what to do against it (Counter anything that gives mana, replicate, or copy.). Even if you play everything right and your opponent has no control over you, you really have only a 2/3rds chance of getting a winning combo. Still, it's just fun to play.

    The combo I've been hearing the most about with Grapeshot is Enduring Renewal + Wild Cantor.

    Get wild cantor out turn 1, mana accel into white mana with BoP / Terramorphic Expanse / Search for Tomorrow. By turn 4, play Enduring Renewal.

    Sac Wild Cantor, it goes to your graveyard and because of Enduring Renewal immediately returns to play. Infinite Mana combo on turn 4...grapeshot for the win.
    Actually it's not infinite mana, but it's an infinite spells played combo. Heck, Enduring Renewal plus a cantor plus a soul warden is infinite life.
    That card is sick.
    ==
    Speaking of slivers, in larger games my friend has built a sliver deck that can can win with a coalition victory. Not a consistent win, but it's an ok deck, and it's fun to throw that down. He put in some Transguild Couriers to make it easier, along with mana search. Obviously there's a dozen ways to beat Coalition victory, but most people aren't paying attention to it.

    Alexan Drite on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Speaking of Grapeshot. My friend has this sick deck which assuming everything goes right can do 40, 50, 80 damage turn 4. And that's not uncommon. It heavily relies upon Seathing songs, lotus blooms, and an izzet, along with grapeshot or lava hammers. It is one of the hardest decks I've seen to play. It's fun, but not particularly strong (it relies upon land destruction to delay the game if you don't get the combo, it is very weak on creatures, and has no life gain or draw except wheel of fate. It can pull some combos off with wheel of fate though). We decided to call it "Chrono Trigger", since it has a very time-mage/'gattling or trigger' kind of feel to it. I'll see if I can't get the full deck construction to you guys. We, being misers, only play with the cards we get, so obviously this deck could be better.

    Anyways I managed a third turn win with CT:
    2x Lotus Bloom goes off. I have 2? mountains on the table.
    Get 3 Blue, and 3 red from lotus bloom.
    Use three of the red to play Seething Song (+5 Red mana).
    Use three of the blue and four of the red to play Eye of the Storm.
    Seething Song with the last three red, goes into the Eye.
    Grapeshot goes into the eye. For 6 or 7 at this point.
    The rest of the cards in my hand were burn, or land destruction, sorcs/insts that let me access everything in the eye. It didn't matter since they were all 5 costs or less.

    The deck is based around suspending cards at the right time so everything goes off at once, finishing opponents off with powerful storm cards. You're constantly sitting there going, "Do I lava hammer a creature so I can take less damage, or should I save it? Do I add another card to my suspend track so that next turn, or try to clockspin it later?"

    Obviously it's not the greatest deck ever, Discard slaughters it, haste can overcome it, and control can overcome it if control knows what to do against it (Counter anything that gives mana, replicate, or copy.). Even if you play everything right and your opponent has no control over you, you really have only a 2/3rds chance of getting a winning combo. Still, it's just fun to play.

    The combo I've been hearing the most about with Grapeshot is Enduring Renewal + Wild Cantor.

    Get wild cantor out turn 1, mana accel into white mana with BoP / Terramorphic Expanse / Search for Tomorrow. By turn 4, play Enduring Renewal.

    Sac Wild Cantor, it goes to your graveyard and because of Enduring Renewal immediately returns to play. Infinite Mana combo on turn 4...grapeshot for the win.
    Actually it's not infinite mana, but it's an infinite spells played combo. Heck, Enduring Renewal plus a cantor plus a soul warden is infinite life.
    That card is sick.
    ==
    Speaking of slivers, in larger games my friend has built a sliver deck that can can win with a coalition victory. Not a consistent win, but it's an ok deck, and it's fun to throw that down. He put in some Transguild Couriers to make it easier, along with mana search. Obviously there's a dozen ways to beat Coalition victory, but most people aren't paying attention to it.

    whoops, forgot Enduring Renewal returns it to your hand, so you use the 1 mana you get to play cantor again..heh

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Wow, I just opened a retardedly good Fat Pack now that I got my order in from SCG...

    Rares: Sedge Sliver
    Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactition
    Bogardan Hellkite
    Trickbind
    Pentarch Paladin
    Lotus Bloom

    Timeshifted:
    Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    Resurrection
    Honorable Passage
    Enduring Ideal
    Avatar of Woe
    Gaea's Blessing

    I am sooo tempted to open up my box, but the part of me that wants to get better at limited is telling me to save it to practice draft with some friends.

    EDIT: Ah screw it, I will leave one draft set for 8 and opening the odd packs out. Yay.

    TheBlackWind on
    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • DrakmathusDrakmathus Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I opened a foil psi blast. :D

    Drakmathus on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Drakmathus wrote:
    I opened a foil psi blast. :D

    I was so fucking pissed, I won a box at my local release tournament and didn't open a single Psi Blast or Trickbind...fuck you, Wizards!!

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    Question:

    Is the whole "timeshifted" cards thing a way for them to eventually reprint the power 9 without reprinting the power 9?

    _J_ on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    _J_ wrote:
    Question:

    Is the whole "timeshifted" cards thing a way for them to eventually reprint the power 9 without reprinting the power 9?

    No, they definitely wouldn't do that. The timeshifted cards were a way to work with the 'past' theme they are doing with this set. The first time spiral set is themed on the past, the second is themed on the present, and the third is themed on the future.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    _J_ wrote:
    Question:

    Is the whole "timeshifted" cards thing a way for them to eventually reprint the power 9 without reprinting the power 9?

    No, they definitely wouldn't do that. The timeshifted cards were a way to work with the 'past' theme they are doing with this set. The first time spiral set is themed on the past, the second is themed on the present, and the third is themed on the future.

    Darn.

    ...how can they theme a set on the present?

    _J_ on
  • Elbonian ManElbonian Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Honestly, I'm more intrigued by how they theme a set on the future. The present is just everything from Mirrodin to Ravnica since no cards/mechanics post-Onslaught were done in Time Spiral.

    Elbonian Man on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    So I went and played with my U/R Time Spiral dragon deck last night at a tournament...it did alright. I'm thinking of main boarding in Skred just to get rid of those pesky Call of the Herds, which own me in the face. Anyone wanna help me out with the decklist? Here it is, new and improved:

    Lands:

    4 Shivan Reef
    4 Steam Vents
    2 Urza's Factory
    10 Snow-Covered Island
    4 Snow-Covered Mountain

    Creatures:

    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    2 Rimescale Dragon

    Other spells:

    4 Electrolyze
    4 Think Twice
    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Cancel
    4 Remand
    3 Ancestral Vision
    2 Mana Leak
    2 Whispers of the Muse
    2 Skred
    1 Dragonstorm

    Sideboard:

    4 Trickbind
    4 Spell Snare
    3 Wipe Away
    2 Sulfurous Blast
    2 Skred

    I played this last night, but without the whispers or the skreds...I need a tad bit more card draw which is what the whispers are for, and the skreds are for creature removal early game until I get going.

    Trickbind is definitely a 4-of in the sideboard, for fun things like countering the second triggered ability of a suspend card as it comes into play. This leaves it removed from game forever, never being played. Sulfurous Blast is a beefy pyroclasm, very very nice for anti-gruul.

    Let me know if I'm doing something wrong that you think should be fixed.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • DrakmathusDrakmathus Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    try repeal for tokens. bounce for 1 and draw a card. Isn't there a boomerang spell with buy back? Maybe try that.

    Drakmathus on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Well, Repeal is pretty mana costly and wipe away has split second, so it can't be countered. I don't want a sideboard card to be used only against tokens.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • ShuThePirateShuThePirate Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    So I went and played with my U/R Time Spiral dragon deck last night at a tournament...it did alright. I'm thinking of main boarding in Skred just to get rid of those pesky Call of the Herds, which own me in the face. Anyone wanna help me out with the decklist? Here it is, new and improved:

    Lands:

    4 Shivan Reef
    4 Steam Vents
    2 Urza's Factory
    10 Snow-Covered Island
    4 Snow-Covered Mountain

    Creatures:

    4 Bogardan Hellkite


    2 Rimescale Dragon

    Other spells:

    4 Electrolyze
    4 Think Twice
    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Cancel
    4 Remand
    3 Ancestral Vision
    2 Mana Leak
    2 Whispers of the Muse
    2 Skred
    1 Dragonstorm

    Sideboard:

    4 Trickbind
    4 Spell Snare
    3 Wipe Away
    2 Sulfurous Blast
    2 Skred

    I played this last night, but without the whispers or the skreds...I need a tad bit more card draw which is what the whispers are for, and the skreds are for creature removal early game until I get going.

    Trickbind is definitely a 4-of in the sideboard, for fun things like countering the second triggered ability of a suspend card as it comes into play. This leaves it removed from game forever, never being played. Sulfurous Blast is a beefy pyroclasm, very very nice for anti-gruul.

    Let me know if I'm doing something wrong that you think should be fixed.

    Rune snag is almost as good as mana leak to start with and is almost always better later.

    ShuThePirate on
  • Alexan DriteAlexan Drite Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Trickbind is definitely a 4-of in the sideboard, for fun things like countering the second triggered ability of a suspend card as it comes into play. This leaves it removed from game forever, never being played.

    I'm super confused about this.
    Let's take Corpulent Corpse
    Fear
    Suspend 5—B (Rather than play this card from your hand, you may pay B and remove it from the game with five time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When you remove the last, play it without paying its mana cost. It has haste.)

    Corpulent corpse is out of game, how do you target it with Trickbind? I remove the last counter and then play it at 0 mana cost. Explain how you'd go about using trickbind to prevent me from playing Corpulent Corpse.

    Alexan Drite on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Trickbind is definitely a 4-of in the sideboard, for fun things like countering the second triggered ability of a suspend card as it comes into play. This leaves it removed from game forever, never being played.

    I'm super confused about this.
    Let's take Corpulent Corpse
    Fear
    Suspend 5—B (Rather than play this card from your hand, you may pay B and remove it from the game with five time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When you remove the last, play it without paying its mana cost. It has haste.)

    Corpulent corpse is out of game, how do you target it with Trickbind? I remove the last counter and then play it at 0 mana cost. Explain how you'd go about using trickbind to prevent me from playing Corpulent Corpse.

    Okay, here's how suspend works. When you initially remove the spell from the game, no ability is triggered (actually I'm not sure about this statement) and it doesn't use the stack (I do know this is correct, though), therefore it can't be responded to. Pretty simple. The way suspend actually plays the spell, however, is through the use of 2 triggered abilities.

    The first triggered ability activates during the suspended spell's owner's upkeep. It basically says, if a spell is suspended during that player's upkeep, remove a time counter. The second triggered ability activates immediately once the spell has no time counters (even if not during that players upkeep). The second triggered ability says: if this card has no time counters, put it into play from the removed from game zone.

    The way trickbind can effectively 'counter' suspend spells is if you play it targeting the second triggered ability of suspend. Since trickbind has split second, it cannot be responded to (therefore no counters) and you make one of their suspend cards be removed from the game permanently.

    It's rather confusing, but I wondered why trickbind was apparently so good and why it was also a rare and not uncommon. It's amazing because you effectively lock down suspend decks, not to mention other fun things like enchantment effects or something you really don't want happening that is activated or triggered.

    Basically, you aren't targeting the spell with trickbind when it is played from suspend...you're targeting the triggered ability that is on the stack that is playing the spell from the removed from game zone.

    To ShuThePirate: I would definitely agree with you on the Rune Snag / Mana Leak argument, if I were running 4 Mana Leaks. But I'm not, I am only running two. And I think we'll both agree that 2 Rune Snags are definitely not as good as two Mana Leaks, no matter how you look at it.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Plus it beats Storm. Yay.

    I am super excited. today is the day I can finally trade away my Jitte's knowing I won't be staring them down the next week.

    TheBlackWind on
    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Plus it beats Storm. Yay.

    I am super excited. today is the day I can finally trade away my Jitte's knowing I won't be staring them down the next week.

    Amen. Jitte is one of the worst Magic cards to ever be printed in my opinion. It's not that the card isn't good, it's just badly designed. I've had 1/1 creatures on my opponents board that I wasnt worried about become unstoppable bloodthirsty killing monstrosities of doom because of that card.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • ShuThePirateShuThePirate Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Trickbind is definitely a 4-of in the sideboard, for fun things like countering the second triggered ability of a suspend card as it comes into play. This leaves it removed from game forever, never being played.

    I'm super confused about this.
    Let's take Corpulent Corpse
    Fear
    Suspend 5—B (Rather than play this card from your hand, you may pay B and remove it from the game with five time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When you remove the last, play it without paying its mana cost. It has haste.)

    Corpulent corpse is out of game, how do you target it with Trickbind? I remove the last counter and then play it at 0 mana cost. Explain how you'd go about using trickbind to prevent me from playing Corpulent Corpse.

    Okay, here's how suspend works. When you initially remove the spell from the game, no ability is triggered (actually I'm not sure about this statement) and it doesn't use the stack (I do know this is correct, though), therefore it can't be responded to. Pretty simple. The way suspend actually plays the spell, however, is through the use of 2 triggered abilities.

    The first triggered ability activates during the suspended spell's owner's upkeep. It basically says, if a spell is suspended during that player's upkeep, remove a time counter. The second triggered ability activates immediately once the spell has no time counters (even if not during that players upkeep). The second triggered ability says: if this card has no time counters, put it into play from the removed from game zone.

    The way trickbind can effectively 'counter' suspend spells is if you play it targeting the second triggered ability of suspend. Since trickbind has split second, it cannot be responded to (therefore no counters) and you make one of their suspend cards be removed from the game permanently.

    It's rather confusing, but I wondered why trickbind was apparently so good and why it was also a rare and not uncommon. It's amazing because you effectively lock down suspend decks, not to mention other fun things like enchantment effects or something you really don't want happening that is activated or triggered.

    Basically, you aren't targeting the spell with trickbind when it is played from suspend...you're targeting the triggered ability that is on the stack that is playing the spell from the removed from game zone.

    To ShuThePirate: I would definitely agree with you on the Rune Snag / Mana Leak argument, if I were running 4 Mana Leaks. But I'm not, I am only running two. And I think we'll both agree that 2 Rune Snags are definitely not as good as two Mana Leaks, no matter how you look at it.

    I dont think you can target a card that is removed from the game unless it specifically says so, like Pull from Eternity. If you really want to screw with people who use a lot of suspend, use Teferi.

    Also since youre not using straight U, I would go with 4 snags and drop a couple cancels, but thats just me.

    ShuThePirate on
  • CokomonCokomon Our butts are worth fighting for! Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Honestly, I'm more intrigued by how they theme a set on the future. The present is just everything from Mirrodin to Ravnica since no cards/mechanics post-Onslaught were done in Time Spiral.

    But all those sets take place on different planes than where these are supposed to be taking place.

    And the future one shouldn't be hard, just sneak in mechanics they plan on using in the future. They did that in the Star Wars CCG, referring to cards that had never been printed yet.

    Cokomon on
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  • Alexan DriteAlexan Drite Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Actually if you look at the suspend rules in detail the second ability is counterable. I don't know if Trickbind can counter it thoug, but it is counterable, and it doesn't say 'this is a special ability that doesn't use the stack', which it does when you play the card suspended. I don't know, I'd probably go with trickbind on this.

    The phrase "if you could play this card from your hand" checks only for timing restrictions and permissions. This includes both what's inherent in the card's type (for example, if the card with suspend is a creature, it must be your main phase and the stack must be empty) and what's imposed by other abilities, such as flash or Meddling Mage's ability. Whether you could actually follow all steps in playing the card is irrelevant. If the card is impossible to play due to a lack of legal targets or an unpayable mana cost, for example, it may still be removed from the game with suspend.
    Removing a card from the game with its suspend ability is not playing that card. This action doesn't use the stack and can't be responded to.
    If a spell with suspend has targets, the targets are chosen when the spell is played, not when it's removed from the game.
    If the first triggered ability of suspend is countered, no time counter is removed. The ability will trigger again during its owner's next upkeep.
    When the last time counter is removed from a suspended card, the second triggered ability of suspend will trigger. It doesn't matter why the time counter was removed or whose effect removed it. (The Time Spiral reminder text is misleading on this point.)
    If the second triggered ability of suspend is countered, the card can't be played. It remains in the removed-from-the-game zone without any time counters on it for the rest of the game, and it's no longer considered suspended.
    If the second triggered ability of suspend resolves, the card's owner must play the spell if possible, even if that player doesn't want to. Normal timing considerations for the spell are ignored (for example, if the suspended card is a creature and this ability resolves during your upkeep, you’re able to play the card), but other play restrictions are not ignored.
    If the second triggered ability of suspend resolves and the suspended card can't be played due to a lack of legal targets or a play restriction, for example, it remains in the removed-from-the-game zone without any time counters on it for the rest of the game, and it's no longer considered suspended.
    As the second triggered ability of suspend resolves, if playing the suspended card involves an additional cost, the card's owner must pay that cost if able. If he or she can't, the card remains removed from the game. If the additional cost includes mana, the situation is more complex. If the player has enough mana in his or her mana pool to pay the cost, that player must do so. If the player can't possibly pay the cost, the card remains removed from the game. However, if the player has the means to produce enough mana to pay the cost, then he or she has a choice: The player may play the spell, produce mana, and pay the cost. Or the player may choose to play no mana abilities, thus making the card impossible to play because the additional mana can't be paid.
    A creature played via suspend comes into play with haste. It still has haste after the first turn it's in play as long as the same player controls it. As soon as another player takes control of it, it loses haste.
    409.1b If the spell or ability is modal (uses the phrase “Choose one —” or “[specified player] chooses one —”), the player announces the mode choice. If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell, he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell or ability has a variable mana cost (indicated by {X}) or some other variable cost, the player announces the value of that variable at this time. If the spell or ability has alternative, additional, or other special costs (such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 409.1f). You can’t apply two alternative methods of playing or two alternative costs to a single spell or ability. Previously made choices (such as choosing to play a spell with flashback from his or her graveyard or choosing to play a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices.

    409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text, and some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all cost increases and minus all cost reductions. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

    409.1g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to play mana abilities (see rule 411, “Playing Mana Abilities”). Mana abilities must be played before costs are paid.

    409.1h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed.
    Example: You play Death Bomb, which costs {3}{B} and has an additional cost of sacrificing a creature. You sacrifice Thunderscape Familiar, whose effect makes your black spells cost {1} less to play. Because a spell’s total cost is “locked in” before payments are actually made, you pay {2}{B}, not {3}{B}, even though you’re sacrificing the Familiar.

    Alexan Drite on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Thanks Alexan for linking the rules for me. Yes, you can use Trickbind to counter a suspended spell because technically, you are not targeting the spell. You are targeting the ability that allows the spell to be brought into play, making the spell technically never enter play. Magic judges that I know personally have verified this.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • XieflowXieflow Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    anyone play many limited formats yet? I've had some great success with suspend, due to how much slower the format is.

    Xieflow on
  • DrakmathusDrakmathus Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I drafted mono green tonight. I went out first round 1-2. He would play one of the 6/3 eyes and kill me with them.

    so uh, overall i hear red andblack are the cool colors to draft because they have a lot of removal at low CC.

    Drakmathus on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2006
    Honestly, I'm more intrigued by how they theme a set on the future. The present is just everything from Mirrodin to Ravnica since no cards/mechanics post-Onslaught were done in Time Spiral.
    They'll have Timeshifted cards from future sets along with mechanics.

    They work on Magic like...up to two years into the future. Shit, they could just make up new mechanics on the spot. Eventually those would show up in the future.

    Present seems simple: cards form the current Standard enviroment. I know the time-chaos thing is limited to one Plane, but apparently it threatens the whole "Multiverse", so it's plausible to have Timeshifted cards from Rav and Coldsnap. That might seem like too few cards, but it'll be a small set.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Well, cold snap counts as a past set really, it was sapsoed to be set three inthe Iceage block. Or so the stroy goes. But using post Onslaught block cards for preasent might work and then use not yet used mechanics from the next set could easily work.

    Melding on
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Mr. Rosewater has said that the timeshifted cards in the next two sets will not be reprints like in TS, they will be different somehow.

    Also I think Future sight will be different then everyone is expecting. Probably not going to see a whole lot of pre-prints or previews of future mechanics and going to be more of a philosyphy of what magic looks like in the future thing.

    Bedlam on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Present seems simple: cards form the current Standard enviroment. I know the time-chaos thing is limited to one Plane, but apparently it threatens the whole "Multiverse", so it's plausible to have Timeshifted cards from Rav and Coldsnap. That might seem like too few cards, but it'll be a small set.

    But if present is cards that exist then...how can there be new cards crafted to be that which already is? Except through reprints...and who would buy an expansion of all reprints of that which already is? And wouldn't anything they reprinted be from the past?

    _J_ on
  • ShuThePirateShuThePirate Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    _J_ wrote:
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Present seems simple: cards form the current Standard enviroment. I know the time-chaos thing is limited to one Plane, but apparently it threatens the whole "Multiverse", so it's plausible to have Timeshifted cards from Rav and Coldsnap. That might seem like too few cards, but it'll be a small set.

    But if present is cards that exist then...how can there be new cards crafted to be that which already is? Except through reprints...and who would buy an expansion of all reprints of that which already is? And wouldn't anything they reprinted be from the past?

    They could be from other planes but from the present time, so they could be from the kamigawa world but be brand new cards.

    ShuThePirate on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Would anyone be up for testing out time spiral decks on Apprentice or Magic Workstation? I need to do a lot of playtesting of my deck before Champs and if anyone else is interested I'd get some games going.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • awesome_andyawesome_andy Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    You wanna know what has me psyched about Time Spiral?
    7uwljrv.jpg

    awesome_andy on
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Would anyone be up for testing out time spiral decks on Apprentice or Magic Workstation? I need to do a lot of playtesting of my deck before Champs and if anyone else is interested I'd get some games going.
    I'd definitely be up for some Champs testing. Lemme know and we can set up some games sometime.

    TheBlackWind on
    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited October 2006
    So over the last couple of days I've been playing my Sunburst pre-constructed deck I bought about a year ago when I wanted to try out Magic, vs. the random crap cards that come in that old Magic introduction set from 2001.

    So, Mirrodin's Core.

    T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
    T: Put a charge counter on Mirrodin's Core.
    T, remove a charge counter from Mirrodin's Core: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

    What's the difference between the first and last ability? Feels like they have the same effect to me, unless you can remove 1+ counters at once.

    Yes, I'm a horrible noobling at Magic.

    Echo on
  • Elbonian ManElbonian Man Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Echo wrote:
    So over the last couple of days I've been playing my Sunburst pre-constructed deck I bought about a year ago when I wanted to try out Magic, vs. the random crap cards that come in that old Magic introduction set from 2001.

    So, Mirrodin's Core.

    T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
    T: Put a charge counter on Mirrodin's Core.
    T, remove a charge counter from Mirrodin's Core: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

    What's the difference between the first and last ability? Feels like they have the same effect to me, unless you can remove 1+ counters at once.

    Yes, I'm a horrible noobling at Magic.
    The first ability is colorless mana that you can't use in place of Green Red Blue Black or White. You could play a arcbound worker with the first ability or an oxidize with the last ability.

    Elbonian Man on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited October 2006
    The first ability is colorless mana that you can't use in place of Green Red Blue Black or White. You could play a arcbound worker with the first ability or an oxidize with the last ability.

    Ooh. That's one rule I've missed so far.

    However, the Sunburst deck has Joiner Adepts that let me tap lands for any color.

    Echo on
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