Pretentious: demo traps and sentries? Snipers are area denial, and bloody fragile area denial at that. You may be anti-camping, and I appreciate that sentiment - I hate camping - but the sniper class is designed around that mechanic and it doesn't make it particularly less cheap than demoman, where you can just spam until you get a kill from distance much of the time.
Demo traps are usually fairly obvious and can be blown away pretty easily. Sentries make their presence fairly well known as well, and are pretty fucking easy to take down in a bunch of spots by competent soldiers/demos.
Demospam is pretty annoying sometimes. I'd really dumb that demos get two good weapons whenever everyone else is stuck with the fucking shotgun as the secondary
I don't actually die to snipers a ton (if you'll believe it) it never feels like they earn it when they body shot me half way across the map. Where's the skill in that?
I dunno. I think you'd be surprised. Even bodyshots on erratically moving targets at range can be challenging. Throw in a little bit of dodgy hit detection and the fact that a snapshot to the body does about 45 damage...
It's a hell of a lot easier hitting a scoot dead on with a rocket from when I've tried it. But it doesn't feel satisfying, it just feels cheap.
Yeah, uhh...snipers are key, at defense and picking apart the enemy defense. They are the class that can kill someone easily at the longest range with the lowest risk of retaliation. All they need is a split second opening to kill someone and start to unravel the enemies defense, no other class can claim this.
I can't count the number of times I've seen a sniper create the opening for a team to push and win with a single shot. You just don't really notice it that much because the sniper's part was done at the very beginning of the crazy offensive.
Any who, I don't think that the sniper's "charged up auto-kill" is a problem nor should be the focus of his update. Sniper could use some more versatility. He can only really serve up one role on his team, precision elimination. While that's not really a problem and perhaps his whole point, he doesn't have much synergy with other classes. I've no idea what exactly should be added however. Not my class of choice.
Oh come now.
This makes me sad.
Also the aforementioned area denial is a class role.
He's got a point, mate. When I play sniper, my attitude regarding teammates goes from 'gee they sure are great ' to 'oh goddammit get the fuck away from me do you think you're peter fucking cottontail or something'
Any who, I don't think that the sniper's "charged up auto-kill" is a problem nor should be the focus of his update. Sniper could use some more versatility. He can only really serve up one role on his team, precision elimination. While that's not really a problem and perhaps his whole point, he doesn't have much synergy with other classes. I've no idea what exactly should be added however. Not my class of choice.
Oh come now.
This makes me sad.
Also the aforementioned area denial is a class role.
He's got a point, mate. When I play sniper, my attitude regarding teammates goes from 'gee they sure are great ' to 'oh goddammit get the fuck away from me do you think you're peter fucking cottontail or something'
Ask not what the team can do for you...
You have the ability to save an awful lot of lives and turrets if you play smart.
e: and as the above post details, critically weaken defense. No medic for you! I love it when I take out two medics and their fat slug of a heavy, or pull the old bait-n-switch on an engineer. Full shot to a level 3, then smash the yellow hardhat in when they creep out to repair it. Continue to take out the sentry at your leisure. Or, if you can't get the engy, kill his dispenser (one charge shot). He'll run out of metal before you run out of bullets.
Dead people can't do damage/don't take ammo to kill/can't repair turrents/can't heal other people/can't decloak spies/can't blow up turrets etc.
Because it's not like other classes can kill people. That's just impossible.
It's less synergy and more "what everyone should be fucking trying to do, I mean, goddamn"
Just give them the Laser Rifle from dystopia, hold fire to charge up and release as max potency. If you don't it times back down. Also you can turn invisible.
(Seriously you guys don't know how terrible a light with cloak and the boltgun could be. So much RAGE)
Because it's not like other classes can kill people. That's just impossible.
It's less synergy and more "what everyone should be fucking trying to do, I mean, goddamn"
Snipers do it at the longest range with the smallest risk to themselves. *shrugs* I listed some other reasons earlier too. :P
Because it's not like other classes can kill people. That's just impossible.
It's less synergy and more "what everyone should be fucking trying to do, I mean, goddamn"
Snipers do it at the longest range with the smallest risk to themselves. *shrugs* I listed some other reasons earlier too. :P
But we already have a class who is meant to kill VIPs on the other team. He's called the spy, and he's hella manly.
P10 on
Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
This argument has been beaten to death. Just accept the fact that any decent teams based FPS will have a sniper role. And there will always be people who play them well compared to people who do not.
But they could at least make it take skill. Listen, let me put my argument in simple terms. I want them to replace the nancy-girl AWP that the snipers have right now, with a more skillful and awesome Scout.
* Fade distances adjusted, a few were too short.
* Named capture points properly and added A/B/C signs at the second point of each stage.
* Miscellaneous layout changes to all stages, including:
* Widened an exit in stage 1.
* Moved a oneway door in stage 1.
* Added a new oneway route in stage 2
* New tunnel into the final building in stage 3.
* Added a respawnvisualiser to a door further from Blu spawn in stage 2.
* Added a bridge outside blue spawn in stage 2.
* Additional skybox detailing.
* Lightened a most of areas.
* Improved playerclipping and altered incorrect collision modes of props.
* Miscellaneous detailing improvements over all stages.
* Fixed fully black lightmap and bleeding light problems.
* Reduced intensity of ticking sound.
* Fixed some displacement misaligns.
* Fixed a problem when players would get slanted views.
* Fixed visleaks.
* Improved lightmap optimisation
FINAL 1.0 CHANGES/FIXES:
-Fixed sticky spawn point in boathouse
-Added control indicators to the base room overhead map
-Boathouse detail added, new cabin on upper level
-Detail added around the map, as well as some texture changes
-Brush overlaps/lighting errors fixed
-Added another moving door to the base spawn so it's similar to the old QW version
-The canal is now not as deep
-Made it so players can't shoot through the boathouse vent to outside
-Message added after round ends that says teams will be switched for the next round
-Percentage score text moved down slightly on the HUD
-Plank added across Library to Arch Room since slower classes had a hard time making the leap
-Optimized the map much more with prop fade distances
-Added dynamic CP signs near the signs with names. They change according to who owns the CP
-Removed potential conflicts with other maps with the custom CP icons
-Edited the CP icons where red or blue can spawn at that location with an "S" so they know where they may end up
Spies are annoying. Two good spies on one team totally fucks over sniping.
I can go from a fair K:D ratio, hitting people fairly regularly on one map, to being stabbed every 2 seconds if they have competent spies and sucking horribly the next.
The only thing that pisses me off about snipers in TF2 is that the netcode vs POV is buggy at times. I will be scoped in staring right at where an enemy sniper is with both of us having sub-30ms pings and just get headshot and die and never even see him peep out from behind the wall. Or the good old "sniped 20ft behind the wall" "lag death" even with super low pings.
It also appears that if you are coming up a hill, you can be headshot before they are even in view.
But they could at least make it take skill. Listen, let me put my argument in simple terms. I want them to replace the nancy-girl AWP that the snipers have right now, with a more skillful and awesome Scout.
Sniper doesn't take skill?
Man, I just must REALLY suck then because I can't kill shit as sniper.
The only thing that pisses me off about snipers in TF2 is that the netcode vs POV is buggy at times. I will be scoped in staring right at where an enemy sniper is with both of us having sub-30ms pings and just get headshot and die and never even see him peep out from behind the wall. Or the good old "sniped 20ft behind the wall" "lag death" even with super low pings.
It also appears that if you are coming up a hill, you can be headshot before they are even in view.
Player camera is in the chest, not the head.
Talking about snipers, you know what the best thing about them is? Sticky jumping up beside them then caving their skull in with your liquor bottle of choice.
If more snipers focused on killing enemy medics and engineers more people would realise how powerful they can be in changing the tide of battle.
I distinctly remember finally making it through the meatgrinder on DB3:3, after 10 minutes of 'run in and die' stuff. I shimmied into the little circular pit and finally took down the engineer and sentry that had been dominating the left flank. Took all of 15 seconds, and we won literally 10 seconds later.
e: And sod the idea that sniper takes no skill. It's the purest class in terms of classic FPS abilities - perception, movement, accuracy and reflex. Don't forget he's also incredibly fragile and has no escape options unlike scout or spy. Medic should have a friend and engies tend to in their POWER ARMOR BATTLESUITS.
That said, I think spy takes the most skill on the PA servers. I will hold that position until something makes me change my mind =P
The other reason snipers seem a bit overpowered, is because on pub servers barely anyone coordinates or uses voicechat in a meaningful way.
I still believe spies are a bit overpowered though, even factoring in the pub issues. Sap should either take longer to destroy things, or it should just disable them until the spy blows them up or gets assistance. IMHO it would make much more sense for them to just disable the equipment while calling in teammates to blow it up right afterwards.
But they could at least make it take skill. Listen, let me put my argument in simple terms. I want them to replace the nancy-girl AWP that the snipers have right now, with a more skillful and awesome Scout.
Sniper doesn't take skill?
Man, I just must REALLY suck then because I can't kill shit as sniper.
Fullycharged bodyshots don't take skill. Headshots take a decent amount of skill. Snap headshots require a lot of skill. I want sniper to be a more skill based class, instead of 'stand miles away, scope, shoot man in foot, repeat' ad nausea.
If more snipers focused on killing enemy medics and engineers more people would realise how powerful they can be in changing the tide of battle.
I distinctly remember finally making it through the meatgrinder on DB3:3, after 10 minutes of 'run in and die' stuff. I shimmied into the little circular pit and finally took down the engineer and sentry that had been dominating the left flank. Took all of 15 seconds, and we won literally 10 seconds later.
That's one of my favorite things to do as sniper, actually. Blow up their dispenser if I can, then headshot the engineer, then snipe their sentry. Works pretty well on Gold rush for example, if your team is halfway decent at keeping the enemy out of the upper battlements overlooking the bomb point A.
If more snipers focused on killing enemy medics and engineers more people would realise how powerful they can be in changing the tide of battle.
I distinctly remember finally making it through the meatgrinder on DB3:3, after 10 minutes of 'run in and die' stuff. I shimmied into the little circular pit and finally took down the engineer and sentry that had been dominating the left flank. Took all of 15 seconds, and we won literally 10 seconds later.
Yeah, I think players (of any class) often get caught up in the score next to their name instead of paying attention to the score that really matters, Red Wins vs. Blue Wins.
Case in point a couple sessions a go I was playing medic on defense and was hiding behind the battle lines keeping every topped off and building ubers for when things got scary. Offense simple could not break through. A sniper, instead of just plinking away at the battle line sneaks around the side and barely breaks cover to kill me from a good distance away, he then proceeds to do the same to an engineer. Before either of can respawn we lost the round.
Pretentious, in that case I think you're demanding that a sniper take proportionately more skill than the other classes. Like I just said, no health, no escape options, no splash damage, reload after each shot, no secondary weapon to speak of and god help you if you're caught in scope.
And people overestimate the sniper rifle in terms of damage. A noscope does 30 damage. 30.
Any who, I don't think that the sniper's "charged up auto-kill" is a problem nor should be the focus of his update. Sniper could use some more versatility. He can only really serve up one role on his team, precision elimination. While that's not really a problem and perhaps his whole point, he doesn't have much synergy with other classes. I've no idea what exactly should be added however. Not my class of choice.
Oh come now.
This makes me sad.
Also the aforementioned area denial is a class role.
He's got a point, mate. When I play sniper, my attitude regarding teammates goes from 'gee they sure are great ' to 'oh goddammit get the fuck away from me do you think you're peter fucking cottontail or something'
Ask not what the team can do for you...
You have the ability to save an awful lot of lives and turrets if you play smart.
e: and as the above post details, critically weaken defense. No medic for you! I love it when I take out two medics and their fat slug of a heavy, or pull the old bait-n-switch on an engineer. Full shot to a level 3, then smash the yellow hardhat in when they creep out to repair it. Continue to take out the sentry at your leisure. Or, if you can't get the engy, kill his dispenser (one charge shot). He'll run out of metal before you run out of bullets.
Naw, man, you are preaching to the choir here, I am simply stating that directly working with teammates is a bad experience for me because teammates seem to enjoy catching my bullets and generally walking right in front of me just as I take a shot. I'd much rather flank off to the side by myself, even if it is probable that I'll get jumped and killed, as that way when I take my shots a teammate will probably not bounce in front of them at the last moment. I've missed many critical shots because of people running right into and through me while bouncing around like they are made of mexican jumping beans.
Pretentious, in that case I think you're demanding that a sniper take proportionately more skill than the other classes. Like I just said, no health, no escape options, no splash damage, reload after each shot, no secondary weapon to speak of and god help you if you're caught in scope.
And people overestimate the sniper rifle in terms of damage. A noscope does 30 damage. 30.
Scouts take a lot of skill too compared to other classes. No health, no splash, shit secondary, primaries just a slightly better secondary for other classes, to do any damage you have to be standing right next to people, which means crit rocket/crit pipe/crit fire/crit melee and you are gone and you also have to deal with pretty shitty hitreg (or maybe that's just me, but I frequently pump 3-4 scattergun shots into someone, have them turn around, kill me, and see I've taken off maybe a quarter of their health)
Do you want me to go on? (also, I thought a noscope did 50, but I'd assume you'd know better than me)
P10 on
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
But they could at least make it take skill. Listen, let me put my argument in simple terms. I want them to replace the nancy-girl AWP that the snipers have right now, with a more skillful and awesome Scout.
But.... doesnt the scout kill with 1 to the head or 2 to the body?
Doesn't the TF2 sniper rifle kill with 1 to the head or 2 to the body?
There is no doubt sniper takes skill. It's a different story though if your saying that the sniper takes the LEAST amount of skill of all the classes but really, who cares?
But they could at least make it take skill. Listen, let me put my argument in simple terms. I want them to replace the nancy-girl AWP that the snipers have right now, with a more skillful and awesome Scout.
But.... doesnt the scout kill with 1 to the head or 2 to the body?
Doesn't the TF2 sniper rifle kill with 1 to the head or 2 to the body?
There is no doubt sniper takes skill. It's a different story though if your saying that the sniper takes the LEAST amount of skill of all the classes but really, who cares?
Look, I just want to make it harder for people to sit in scope and bodyshot low HP classes, alright? That's some stupid bullshit. Which is why I said 'make it so that full charge doesn't last forever' instead of something stupid like bottles of piss.
Does a fully charged body shot kill? And if so on what classes?
According to TF2 Wiki, a full charged body shot kills scouts, medics, engineers, spies, and other snipers in one hit, assuming a medic hasn't healed them beyond 100%
Does a fully charged body shot kill? And if so on what classes?
Yes it does, to any class under 200 life. That would be Demoman, Medic, Scout, Sniper, Engineer, Spy and Pyro. Only Soldier and Heavy can survive a fully charged body shot.
EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong then, but I swear I've been 1shot non-crit by snipers in the past as Pyro and Demoman. Maybe I had like 20 damage already or something and didn't notice though.
Posts
Demospam is pretty annoying sometimes. I'd really dumb that demos get two good weapons whenever everyone else is stuck with the fucking shotgun as the secondary
I can't count the number of times I've seen a sniper create the opening for a team to push and win with a single shot. You just don't really notice it that much because the sniper's part was done at the very beginning of the crazy offensive.
He's got a point, mate. When I play sniper, my attitude regarding teammates goes from 'gee they sure are great
You have the ability to save an awful lot of lives and turrets if you play smart.
e: and as the above post details, critically weaken defense. No medic for you! I love it when I take out two medics and their fat slug of a heavy, or pull the old bait-n-switch on an engineer. Full shot to a level 3, then smash the yellow hardhat in when they creep out to repair it. Continue to take out the sentry at your leisure. Or, if you can't get the engy, kill his dispenser (one charge shot). He'll run out of metal before you run out of bullets.
That will go in my list of names to use when drunk.
Dead people can't do damage/don't take ammo to kill/can't repair turrents/can't heal other people/can't decloak spies/can't blow up turrets etc.
It's less synergy and more "what everyone should be fucking trying to do, I mean, goddamn"
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
(Seriously you guys don't know how terrible a light with cloak and the boltgun could be. So much RAGE)
Snipers do it at the longest range with the smallest risk to themselves. *shrugs* I listed some other reasons earlier too. :P
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
First, there's a new version of pl_hoodoo out, b2.
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/62351
Next, the final version of dom_canalzone.
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/62848
A pair of new arena maps as well.
First, arena_watchtower_b3
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/64978
Arena_Mach will be going up as well.
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/63789
Plus, tomorrow should see the first public build of of CP_Amsterdam come out, which'll go up ASAP.
Pyro is excited for it, and so should you!
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Oh ho ho ho ho :whistle:
You're a fun target, Mr. Aegis.
It also appears that if you are coming up a hill, you can be headshot before they are even in view.
Sniper doesn't take skill?
Man, I just must REALLY suck then because I can't kill shit as sniper.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Is the jar of pee a thrown splash weapon that causes intense discomfort?
Player camera is in the chest, not the head.
Talking about snipers, you know what the best thing about them is? Sticky jumping up beside them then caving their skull in with your liquor bottle of choice.
I distinctly remember finally making it through the meatgrinder on DB3:3, after 10 minutes of 'run in and die' stuff. I shimmied into the little circular pit and finally took down the engineer and sentry that had been dominating the left flank. Took all of 15 seconds, and we won literally 10 seconds later.
e: And sod the idea that sniper takes no skill. It's the purest class in terms of classic FPS abilities - perception, movement, accuracy and reflex. Don't forget he's also incredibly fragile and has no escape options unlike scout or spy. Medic should have a friend and engies tend to in their POWER ARMOR BATTLESUITS.
That said, I think spy takes the most skill on the PA servers. I will hold that position until something makes me change my mind =P
No, you just have them beside you. And the long you stay in one spot the more that accumulate around you.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
I still believe spies are a bit overpowered though, even factoring in the pub issues. Sap should either take longer to destroy things, or it should just disable them until the spy blows them up or gets assistance. IMHO it would make much more sense for them to just disable the equipment while calling in teammates to blow it up right afterwards.
That's one of my favorite things to do as sniper, actually. Blow up their dispenser if I can, then headshot the engineer, then snipe their sentry. Works pretty well on Gold rush for example, if your team is halfway decent at keeping the enemy out of the upper battlements overlooking the bomb point A.
Yeah, I think players (of any class) often get caught up in the score next to their name instead of paying attention to the score that really matters, Red Wins vs. Blue Wins.
Case in point a couple sessions a go I was playing medic on defense and was hiding behind the battle lines keeping every topped off and building ubers for when things got scary. Offense simple could not break through. A sniper, instead of just plinking away at the battle line sneaks around the side and barely breaks cover to kill me from a good distance away, he then proceeds to do the same to an engineer. Before either of can respawn we lost the round.
And people overestimate the sniper rifle in terms of damage. A noscope does 30 damage. 30.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Naw, man, you are preaching to the choir here, I am simply stating that directly working with teammates is a bad experience for me because teammates seem to enjoy catching my bullets and generally walking right in front of me just as I take a shot. I'd much rather flank off to the side by myself, even if it is probable that I'll get jumped and killed, as that way when I take my shots a teammate will probably not bounce in front of them at the last moment. I've missed many critical shots because of people running right into and through me while bouncing around like they are made of mexican jumping beans.
Do you want me to go on? (also, I thought a noscope did 50, but I'd assume you'd know better than me)
But.... doesnt the scout kill with 1 to the head or 2 to the body?
Doesn't the TF2 sniper rifle kill with 1 to the head or 2 to the body?
There is no doubt sniper takes skill. It's a different story though if your saying that the sniper takes the LEAST amount of skill of all the classes but really, who cares?
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
According to TF2 Wiki, a full charged body shot kills scouts, medics, engineers, spies, and other snipers in one hit, assuming a medic hasn't healed them beyond 100%
Yes it does, to any class under 200 life. That would be Demoman, Medic, Scout, Sniper, Engineer, Spy and Pyro. Only Soldier and Heavy can survive a fully charged body shot.
EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong then, but I swear I've been 1shot non-crit by snipers in the past as Pyro and Demoman. Maybe I had like 20 damage already or something and didn't notice though.