note: above was personal experience
followed a fun week where we wiped on Teron about ten times, and RoS for about five hours.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
we raid from 5:30 to 11:30 on Sundays, we started Archi at 6, downed him on the third attempt at just after 6:30, went to BT and wiped on RoS until about 11:15 when we finally killed her. We got to phase 3 twice in those hours, and had a flawless phase 1 everytime. Fucking interrupts.
Gorefiend was earlier in the week, everyone who normally does constructs flawlessly started fucking up. We had four attempts in a row where every single person fucked up their constructs.
On top of all of that we still managed to clear Hyjal, clear 7/9 BT, and down Council for progression. Hopefully this week we manage to oneshot most of the bosses and get in some solid time on Illidan.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Usually an afk break between instances, or if its only BT, a break between an easy boss and a hard boss.
EG back in the day when we were killing stuff in TK/SSC, we'd do one of those on Wed, Hyjal 4/5 on Thurs, then go into BT on Sunday, and give a break between Akama and Teron.
Nowadays we have Hyjal cleared on Wednesdays, usually 4-5/9 on Thursday, then on Sunday we clear whatever's left in BT then progress. For example this week we will hopefully clear Hyjal on Wednesday, then 8/9 BT on Thursday and Sunday, leaving whatever's left of Sunday and all of Monday for Illidan attempts. On a Sunday like that, we'd go hard until we'd killed what we needed to, give a 10-15 min break and come back and hit progression.
Happy: CC rep down after 5 hours of grinding (the rep increases to Texts made it easy)
Sad: All that's left now is Timbermaw. I think I'm gonna put that off for a bit.
Happy: Only missing 7 recipes for both Alchemy and Cooking
Sad: Out of the 7 Alch recipes, 3 are discoveries, 2 are the Frost pot and its cauldron from Mana Tombs, 1's dropped in MC and the last needs Exalted Zandalar to get (I'm only Revered).
Happy: All 7 recipes of Cooking I'm missing are Alliance-only and since someone put a lot of Alliance-only recipes on the AH I grabbed a bunch (there's more than 7 alliance only cooking recipes). Hopefully the ones I'm missing will appear sooner than later. If not I could hopefully convince someone to make an alliance character to go grab the stuff and trade it through the neutral AH.
I already knew that, seeing as I'm level 70 and did all the quests 2 years ago before I knew there'd be any achievement system to trick me into attempting to get higher than the honored I settled at. That's why I'm sad.
Hate: What the raid game makes you become. Collective "you."
TL;DR: Very soon, like possibly tonight before raid time, we're going to more or less gut the #2 Horde guild of most of their officers and core raiders. It wasn't our idea, they've (supposedly) been unhappy with how things are run in that guild for awhile, but since it's another guild like us that's been around for the long haul, they tried to stick it out. But people have been saying we should merge since early BC when we killed Hydross and Lurker first but then two Alliance guilds merged and destroyed us on every server first since then. But tradition and pride has kept it from happening. We even offered more of a merger, take almost ALL of their raiders and their friends/family, but their GM and her husband are too stubborn to let it go, so this is what we've come to. It feels dirty. I can say "it wasn't my idea!" "we offered them a deal!" as much as I want but we're still taking their core raiders and leaving them to pick up the pieces.
Hope: That this actually works out and we don't have a fuckton of drama followed by gquits and still a divided Horde-side raiding pool. ED has proven that it just can't support even two big raiding guilds, there's not enough good players to go around.
We did this once before but it wasn't another top raiding guild, it was more a small raiding guild of mostly RL friends. It worked out at first, we got like ten good people and killed some new bosses, but they slowly trickled away, so now only ONE of them is left, and another hangs around but quit raiding month ago. It's sort of a shock to see a bunch of "__ has joined the guild" spam but at least we've played with these people a lot, SSC pugs and all that, and we're in the same guild on beta.
Hilarious: People who think bear mounts are a giveaway, like, "Oh, I'll take two please!" One of our more recent mage recruits keeps trying to get bear runs going because he's never won one, and some people still need rings and trinkets. So he made a thread about it, and among the replies is a guy we used to raid with who hasn't played in over a year, who sucked when he did play, and we're generally glad to be rid of. He was like, "Since they're going away soon, I'd like to come get one!" As if it's just letting him into an instance to visit a bear vendor. Sure, buddy, nine other people are going to waste an hour of their time to get YOU a bear mount. I can't even begin to imagine a world in which his response is okay. Maybe if he was tacking on 8,000g or something but I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have non-epic flying yet.
Happy: WAR is awesome
Hope: That people will soon get used to the PVP in war and the standoff's will be a thing of the past
Hatred:Some bugs are still annoying
Happy: The guild we were competing with for months late sunwell kills is breaking up and a lot of their best people have joined my guild. I'm sad to see our competition go, but it'll be nice to get some new people who are excellent healers added to our roster.
Also Happy: Went on a Naxx run this past Friday led by the top Horde guild on the server, had fun, got loots, and saw parts of the instance I hadn't seem before. I must have made some kind of impression because I've been getting invites to be part of paid bear run led by people who ran the Naxx pug. Making 600g in less than 45 minutes, having fun while doing it, and playing with some really really good players is pretty cool.
Hate: We lost our only ret paladin to another guild just slightly ahead progression wise (shivering felspine > guild). I've been playing with the guy for going on two years now, so I'm sad to see him and his perfect comedic timing with internet soundboards over vent. His ret pally buffs will sorely be missed as well.
Hope: New healers are as good as I'm hoping they are so we finally kill Kalecgos this week.
We basically did the same thing kind sorta about a month ago. Alliance guild who was stuck on or around Council ended up losing enough folks so they couldn't raid. (this was when we had a lot of folks burn out and needed like 5 static people) They apparently hadn't raided in like 3 weeks, the officers/core raiders were upset because not enough was being done about it... Anyway, through one of our static raiders we ended up chatting with one of the officers and offered them incentive to join us. (DKP incentives, skipping probation for the most part, etc) He approached their GM, and she just flat out wasn't going to have it.
In the end, their core group did end up joining us a few days later. And so far all of them have been amazing, they're as dedicated as anyone we had had in guild prior, and they're just plain happy to be raiding again. It was a little rocky the first week or so, comments like "who are all these new people," and general getting to know each other awkwardness, but it's back to one (relatively) happy family again.
There are plenty of folks that want to raid and push and progress right up to Xpac, but it's hard to get them all together in one place.
Then you have to try to filter out the pains-in-the-ass that are only coming because they feel like it's their divine right, and then spend the raid bitching and whining and spreading poisonous attitudes, and then you have to drag in the burnt out people you NEED because it's SW and you have to have a specific group, etc, etc. It's a constantly losing battle, but hell, I'm stubborn and I refuse to give up.
and re: Bear mounts.
Our guild by far has the most bear mounts on DI, I think it's our 40th run this week. Twice a week since April, that's about right. (OK, idk about Horde, they may be strolling around in Org for all I know) Anyway, we may as well have on our recruitment post: "Complimentary Amani War Bear upon completion of probationary period." People join, 2 weeks later "hey when can I get in on a bear run?" Um, when you set one up...
Guild recently found out we've gone through the "main group" of bears & now clamoring for bears. Mind you, these are the people who previously showed no interest in the group or a bear mount. They wanted to go to ZA, but they never wanted to put in the time/effort to get the four timed loots. They're pissed off that we're selling bears now, & making a profit out of it. They're also partially pissed off we're taking people who left the guild (yes, they gquit & joined another guild, you could just deal with it...ahh I see you're planning some retarded idea to fuck them over - they take this shit personally) - I guess that's the other part of the drama, but they were part of the original group & still wanted to do the runs until everyone had one. They've could bailed, they didn't. Some of those bitching now had a chance to join the bear runs, only showed up for 1-2 runs, & stopped showing up after that.
We ended up having to use a different vent because of it - some of the officers started randomly banning people they didn't recognize as guildies & I know two of our regular guys would've gotten insta-banned.
Many people in guild think we should give them the mounts for free, & we're assholes for selling bears (we haven't sold any to anyone in guild, just all outside people). But for us, we put in the time, used consumables, learned how to do the runs, & did it every time the reset was up. And they just want to be carried through for free, or they want their girlfriend in greens to be taken on a run, or the new recruit who joined last week wants a bear. I shoudl mention that I wouldn't mind giving a bear to certain people in guild, a lot of the whiners, no.
It's very very irritating. I knew this would happen sooner rather than later given the nature of the assholes in my guild, which is just a separate rant on its own. I'm fed up with the guild in general, their attitude towards people is...they're hypocritical assholes. These are the idiots who get on their Horde character & corpse camp you for hours because you gquit their guild.
Happy: ...I think I'm going guildless until expansion. XD
Yeah, it seems like a lot of people don't understand that there's an invested cost in receiving a bear mount, in terms of time and consumables and doing it once you've received it for the other people in your group. Initially when I joined my guild, there was a bear-running contingent already operating, and I didn't ask to join them because I didn't want to be one of those people who shows up after the success is over to grab a 'free' mount.
Fortunately an awesome casual guy in my guild has gone to the trouble of organizing a new set of bear runs, and the wife and I got in there at the ground level. Since then we've both received our bears, and always make ourselves available to continue helping out as best as possible.
I think a nice way to handle that situation inside a guild (wherein an existing bear run is requested to outfit someone who has not contributed to their success) would be to request that the person receiving a bear supply all the consumables for the run. That at least would show a little consideration for the time and effort put in. Or to donate some materials or items or gold to the guild bank. That sort of thing.
I think a nice way to handle that situation inside a guild (wherein an existing bear run is requested to outfit someone who has not contributed to their success) would be to request that the person receiving a bear supply all the consumables for the run. That at least would show a little consideration for the time and effort put in. Or to donate some materials or items or gold to the guild bank. That sort of thing.
Initially we would let a person roll if they'd come on at least 3 successful runs with us. Now we do a waitlist of sorts. If someone has volunteered to help out more than once or twice and is generally not a douche, they get one. If they make comments like "when do I get mine?" "Oh, I only want to run when nobody else needs one" or my favorite, "yeah I'm only coming in for the mount, I have no interest in running after that." Not so much.
We had one mage that CONSTANTLY pestered to get in the run, we needed a mage one night for a money run and we asked if he'd like to go. He's like, "nah, I'm gonna PvP." Had he been wiling to help out, he'd probably have a mount of his own by now AND a fatter wallet, but nope.
Well, that's explains that. What is Clam's druid, then?
Mahalo
and RE: Bear mounts:
When I joined this guild I offered to join the bear runs with the understanding I wouldn't be getting one right away. As soon as the remainder of the core group (the people left are a hunter who's been in every one and a warlock who hasn't been around) gets theirs I can start rolling on it.
I got a little WoW in on my lunch break today. I'm leveling up a hunter in Felwood, and I stumble upon a horde down to about 5% health fighting a mob. Since I'm pressed for time to finish my quest, and I'm not a giant flaming asshole, I didn't kill him, but instead gave him a /tickle.
A few minutes later he ambushes and kills me while I'm fighting some mobs.
I got a little WoW in on my lunch break today. I'm leveling up a hunter in Felwood, and I stumble upon a horde down to about 5% health fighting a mob. Since I'm pressed for time to finish my quest, and I'm not a giant flaming asshole, I didn't kill him, but instead gave him a /tickle.
A few minutes later he ambushes and kills me while I'm fighting some mobs.
HAAAAAAAAATE.
Oooh! I was just doing the chasing A-Me quest in ungoro on my lunch break. When I got to the cave, there was a spriest/retadin combo just starting the quest. So I waved and let them by, waiting for them to finish so I could do the quest. They waved back, etc. So now it's my turn to start the quest, I just got out of the cave. Smooth sailing from here, right? Nope, got a hammer to the face. I so rocked that priest though.
speaking as someone who took part in the earliest bear runs, I know exactly why your guild is pissed. You got the gear you needed to do the bear runs, from the guild. If you never refused any guild members for runs before you started selling spots, then that is their problem. But if you were telling guildies no, and then selling spots, that is wrong.
speaking as someone who took part in the earliest bear runs, I know exactly why your guild is pissed. You got the gear you needed to do the bear runs, from the guild. If you never refused any guild members for runs before you started selling spots, then that is their problem. But if you were telling guildies no, and then selling spots, that is wrong.
Bullshit. If some fucking tagalong guildmate feels entitled to a bear run just because they are part of the guild they can fuck right off. If you participated and helped when you could, awesome. We're happy to get you a free bear mount. If you never made even a token attempt to run ZA with us, never learned the fights with us, never wiped at 2% with 40 seconds on the BEARCLOCKâ„¢ with us, tough shit. Pay up or cry yourself to sleep, either way is fine with me.
speaking as someone who took part in the earliest bear runs, I know exactly why your guild is pissed. You got the gear you needed to do the bear runs, from the guild. If you never refused any guild members for runs before you started selling spots, then that is their problem. But if you were telling guildies no, and then selling spots, that is wrong.
Might want to reference exactly who you're talking to, 'cause with a quick glance, I'm not quite sure. (apologies if it should be blindingly obvious)
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
speaking as someone who took part in the earliest bear runs, I know exactly why your guild is pissed. You got the gear you needed to do the bear runs, from the guild. If you never refused any guild members for runs before you started selling spots, then that is their problem. But if you were telling guildies no, and then selling spots, that is wrong.
Bullshit. If some fucking tagalong guildmate feels entitled to a bear run just because they are part of the guild they can fuck right off. If you participated and helped when you could, awesome. We're happy to get you a free bear mount. If you never made even a token attempt to run ZA with us, never learned the fights with us, never wiped at 2% with 40 seconds on the BEARCLOCK™ with us, tough shit. Pay up or cry yourself to sleep, either way is fine with me.
That kind of seems like a harsh way to treat fellow guildies, whether they are progression raiders or not.
Edit: To clarify, it's one thing to give Bear Run priority to people in your guild who are progression raiders and helped get there, I totally am on board with that. It's another thing entirely to bypass guildies completely in favor of PuG's to get some extra gold. I mean, that seems kind of fucked up, and if there other reasons for them not getting in on a run besides not being a progression raider, why are they in the guild at all? It just seems like a slap in the face.
RE: Timbermaw Rep. Actually, I'm working on this for my main right now. Right now it's looking like I'll get the 640 feathers well before I get to revered, but the RNG has always been manic-depressive for me. No joke, my druid alt got 2 BoE blue drops within 10 minutes the other night. On the other hand, I've run Murmur close to 2 dozen times now without seeing my pants pattern...
speaking as someone who took part in the earliest bear runs, I know exactly why your guild is pissed. You got the gear you needed to do the bear runs, from the guild. If you never refused any guild members for runs before you started selling spots, then that is their problem. But if you were telling guildies no, and then selling spots, that is wrong.
Bullshit. If some fucking tagalong guildmate feels entitled to a bear run just because they are part of the guild they can fuck right off. If you participated and helped when you could, awesome. We're happy to get you a free bear mount. If you never made even a token attempt to run ZA with us, never learned the fights with us, never wiped at 2% with 40 seconds on the BEARCLOCK™ with us, tough shit. Pay up or cry yourself to sleep, either way is fine with me.
That kind of seems like a harsh way to treat fellow guildies, whether they are progression raiders or not.
Edit: To clarify, it's one thing to give Bear Run priority to people in your guild who are progression raiders and helped get there, I totally am on board with that. It's another thing entirely to bypass guildies completely in favor of PuG's to get some extra gold. I mean, that seems kind of fucked up, and if there other reasons for them not getting in on a run besides not being a progression raider, why are they in the guild at all? It just seems like a slap in the face.
40 people in the guild, 10 of them decide to sacrifice time, money and materials to get Bear mounts. The other 30 are only there for the p25 raids not really caring about the 10 people trying to get bears. All 10 people get their bear and now those 30 demand their bear.
Fuck them, they can put together a p10 to get their own bear. There are still 30 people in the guild who don't have one.
edit: Now if they were supporting the 10 people learning the encounter, helping to farm mats, filling in on nights when someone couldn't make it and other miscellaneous things then it is a decision of the original 10.
speaking as someone who took part in the earliest bear runs, I know exactly why your guild is pissed. You got the gear you needed to do the bear runs, from the guild. If you never refused any guild members for runs before you started selling spots, then that is their problem. But if you were telling guildies no, and then selling spots, that is wrong.
Bullshit. If some fucking tagalong guildmate feels entitled to a bear run just because they are part of the guild they can fuck right off. If you participated and helped when you could, awesome. We're happy to get you a free bear mount. If you never made even a token attempt to run ZA with us, never learned the fights with us, never wiped at 2% with 40 seconds on the BEARCLOCK™ with us, tough shit. Pay up or cry yourself to sleep, either way is fine with me.
That kind of seems like a harsh way to treat fellow guildies, whether they are progression raiders or not.
Edit: To clarify, it's one thing to give Bear Run priority to people in your guild who are progression raiders and helped get there, I totally am on board with that. It's another thing entirely to bypass guildies completely in favor of PuG's to get some extra gold. I mean, that seems kind of fucked up, and if there other reasons for them not getting in on a run besides not being a progression raider, why are they in the guild at all? It just seems like a slap in the face.
We have a lot of people in the guild right now that had zero to do with our progression, when we actually raided. All the people that were part of the original crew got bear mounts already. It's the people who basically contribute little to the guild other than witty banter. I don't have a problem with these people, in fact I like most of them. But when they are like "Hey I'd like a bear next Thursday," I'm kinda like o_O? And it's not about the money. I have yet to get a dime from the group selling bear mounts. I come in as a replacement if they need me for anything. And I'm always available to them, therefore I has bare. Anyway, the people I'm talking about are people who are new to the guild, or are just guild friends. I mean... we have one guy who asks for a bear pretty often, but has only ever done Kara with us, has pretty sub-par gear, and hasn't contributed much, if anything at all. Why should we get him a bear mount?
EDIT: Basically what Seg said, excluding 25-man progression on the part of said members. They are tagalongs and stowaways, and while I have nothing against them, I don't feel like I owe them a thing.
EDIT: TL;DR - Being a member of a guild that has a Bear Run Group does not automatically entitle you to a Bear.
Posts
Gorefiend was earlier in the week, everyone who normally does constructs flawlessly started fucking up. We had four attempts in a row where every single person fucked up their constructs.
On top of all of that we still managed to clear Hyjal, clear 7/9 BT, and down Council for progression. Hopefully this week we manage to oneshot most of the bosses and get in some solid time on Illidan.
EG back in the day when we were killing stuff in TK/SSC, we'd do one of those on Wed, Hyjal 4/5 on Thurs, then go into BT on Sunday, and give a break between Akama and Teron.
Nowadays we have Hyjal cleared on Wednesdays, usually 4-5/9 on Thursday, then on Sunday we clear whatever's left in BT then progress. For example this week we will hopefully clear Hyjal on Wednesday, then 8/9 BT on Thursday and Sunday, leaving whatever's left of Sunday and all of Monday for Illidan attempts. On a Sunday like that, we'd go hard until we'd killed what we needed to, give a 10-15 min break and come back and hit progression.
I wish I could play for six hours.
I wish I could do find something to do other than play alts on my weekend and dailies on the days I work
It sucks that my weekend is Monday/Tuesday and no one wants to do anything
to be fair, if we weren't progressing so fast I wouldn't be able to, and if I wasn't raiding, I wouldn't be able to.
Sad: All that's left now is Timbermaw. I think I'm gonna put that off for a bit.
Happy: Only missing 7 recipes for both Alchemy and Cooking
Sad: Out of the 7 Alch recipes, 3 are discoveries, 2 are the Frost pot and its cauldron from Mana Tombs, 1's dropped in MC and the last needs Exalted Zandalar to get (I'm only Revered).
Happy: All 7 recipes of Cooking I'm missing are Alliance-only and since someone put a lot of Alliance-only recipes on the AH I grabbed a bunch (there's more than 7 alliance only cooking recipes). Hopefully the ones I'm missing will appear sooner than later. If not I could hopefully convince someone to make an alliance character to go grab the stuff and trade it through the neutral AH.
I was surpised how easy the CC rep is when I took my hunter to silithus. I was honoured by level 56 and revered by 58
TL;DR: Very soon, like possibly tonight before raid time, we're going to more or less gut the #2 Horde guild of most of their officers and core raiders. It wasn't our idea, they've (supposedly) been unhappy with how things are run in that guild for awhile, but since it's another guild like us that's been around for the long haul, they tried to stick it out. But people have been saying we should merge since early BC when we killed Hydross and Lurker first but then two Alliance guilds merged and destroyed us on every server first since then. But tradition and pride has kept it from happening. We even offered more of a merger, take almost ALL of their raiders and their friends/family, but their GM and her husband are too stubborn to let it go, so this is what we've come to. It feels dirty. I can say "it wasn't my idea!" "we offered them a deal!" as much as I want but we're still taking their core raiders and leaving them to pick up the pieces.
Hope: That this actually works out and we don't have a fuckton of drama followed by gquits and still a divided Horde-side raiding pool. ED has proven that it just can't support even two big raiding guilds, there's not enough good players to go around.
I've been through 3 since TBC launched. Only one other person still raids with me since the first merger.
This is over a year's time though, but still....
Happy: Horde alt on Balnazar or whatever, now to force my way in to Beyond Normal's guild.
HATE: Jin'Rohk does not drop and I'm 100 badgers away from The Blade of the Harbingers!
HOPE: That he eventually does, dammit!
Hope: That people will soon get used to the PVP in war and the standoff's will be a thing of the past
Hatred:Some bugs are still annoying
Nope, Jokull was the other resto druid.
I don't think he's been on in that long.
Also Happy: Went on a Naxx run this past Friday led by the top Horde guild on the server, had fun, got loots, and saw parts of the instance I hadn't seem before. I must have made some kind of impression because I've been getting invites to be part of paid bear run led by people who ran the Naxx pug. Making 600g in less than 45 minutes, having fun while doing it, and playing with some really really good players is pretty cool.
Hate: We lost our only ret paladin to another guild just slightly ahead progression wise (shivering felspine > guild). I've been playing with the guy for going on two years now, so I'm sad to see him and his perfect comedic timing with internet soundboards over vent. His ret pally buffs will sorely be missed as well.
Hope: New healers are as good as I'm hoping they are so we finally kill Kalecgos this week.
We basically did the same thing kind sorta about a month ago. Alliance guild who was stuck on or around Council ended up losing enough folks so they couldn't raid. (this was when we had a lot of folks burn out and needed like 5 static people) They apparently hadn't raided in like 3 weeks, the officers/core raiders were upset because not enough was being done about it... Anyway, through one of our static raiders we ended up chatting with one of the officers and offered them incentive to join us. (DKP incentives, skipping probation for the most part, etc) He approached their GM, and she just flat out wasn't going to have it.
In the end, their core group did end up joining us a few days later. And so far all of them have been amazing, they're as dedicated as anyone we had had in guild prior, and they're just plain happy to be raiding again. It was a little rocky the first week or so, comments like "who are all these new people," and general getting to know each other awkwardness, but it's back to one (relatively) happy family again.
There are plenty of folks that want to raid and push and progress right up to Xpac, but it's hard to get them all together in one place.
Then you have to try to filter out the pains-in-the-ass that are only coming because they feel like it's their divine right, and then spend the raid bitching and whining and spreading poisonous attitudes, and then you have to drag in the burnt out people you NEED because it's SW and you have to have a specific group, etc, etc. It's a constantly losing battle, but hell, I'm stubborn and I refuse to give up.
and re: Bear mounts.
Our guild by far has the most bear mounts on DI, I think it's our 40th run this week. Twice a week since April, that's about right. (OK, idk about Horde, they may be strolling around in Org for all I know) Anyway, we may as well have on our recruitment post: "Complimentary Amani War Bear upon completion of probationary period." People join, 2 weeks later "hey when can I get in on a bear run?" Um, when you set one up...
Guild recently found out we've gone through the "main group" of bears & now clamoring for bears. Mind you, these are the people who previously showed no interest in the group or a bear mount. They wanted to go to ZA, but they never wanted to put in the time/effort to get the four timed loots. They're pissed off that we're selling bears now, & making a profit out of it. They're also partially pissed off we're taking people who left the guild (yes, they gquit & joined another guild, you could just deal with it...ahh I see you're planning some retarded idea to fuck them over - they take this shit personally) - I guess that's the other part of the drama, but they were part of the original group & still wanted to do the runs until everyone had one. They've could bailed, they didn't. Some of those bitching now had a chance to join the bear runs, only showed up for 1-2 runs, & stopped showing up after that.
We ended up having to use a different vent because of it - some of the officers started randomly banning people they didn't recognize as guildies & I know two of our regular guys would've gotten insta-banned.
Many people in guild think we should give them the mounts for free, & we're assholes for selling bears (we haven't sold any to anyone in guild, just all outside people). But for us, we put in the time, used consumables, learned how to do the runs, & did it every time the reset was up. And they just want to be carried through for free, or they want their girlfriend in greens to be taken on a run, or the new recruit who joined last week wants a bear. I shoudl mention that I wouldn't mind giving a bear to certain people in guild, a lot of the whiners, no.
It's very very irritating. I knew this would happen sooner rather than later given the nature of the assholes in my guild, which is just a separate rant on its own. I'm fed up with the guild in general, their attitude towards people is...they're hypocritical assholes. These are the idiots who get on their Horde character & corpse camp you for hours because you gquit their guild.
Happy: ...I think I'm going guildless until expansion. XD
Fortunately an awesome casual guy in my guild has gone to the trouble of organizing a new set of bear runs, and the wife and I got in there at the ground level. Since then we've both received our bears, and always make ourselves available to continue helping out as best as possible.
I think a nice way to handle that situation inside a guild (wherein an existing bear run is requested to outfit someone who has not contributed to their success) would be to request that the person receiving a bear supply all the consumables for the run. That at least would show a little consideration for the time and effort put in. Or to donate some materials or items or gold to the guild bank. That sort of thing.
Initially we would let a person roll if they'd come on at least 3 successful runs with us. Now we do a waitlist of sorts. If someone has volunteered to help out more than once or twice and is generally not a douche, they get one. If they make comments like "when do I get mine?" "Oh, I only want to run when nobody else needs one" or my favorite, "yeah I'm only coming in for the mount, I have no interest in running after that." Not so much.
We had one mage that CONSTANTLY pestered to get in the run, we needed a mage one night for a money run and we asked if he'd like to go. He's like, "nah, I'm gonna PvP." Had he been wiling to help out, he'd probably have a mount of his own by now AND a fatter wallet, but nope.
Mahalo
and RE: Bear mounts:
When I joined this guild I offered to join the bear runs with the understanding I wouldn't be getting one right away. As soon as the remainder of the core group (the people left are a hunter who's been in every one and a warlock who hasn't been around) gets theirs I can start rolling on it.
A few minutes later he ambushes and kills me while I'm fighting some mobs.
HAAAAAAAAATE.
Bullshit. If some fucking tagalong guildmate feels entitled to a bear run just because they are part of the guild they can fuck right off. If you participated and helped when you could, awesome. We're happy to get you a free bear mount. If you never made even a token attempt to run ZA with us, never learned the fights with us, never wiped at 2% with 40 seconds on the BEARCLOCKâ„¢ with us, tough shit. Pay up or cry yourself to sleep, either way is fine with me.
Might want to reference exactly who you're talking to, 'cause with a quick glance, I'm not quite sure. (apologies if it should be blindingly obvious)
That kind of seems like a harsh way to treat fellow guildies, whether they are progression raiders or not.
Edit: To clarify, it's one thing to give Bear Run priority to people in your guild who are progression raiders and helped get there, I totally am on board with that. It's another thing entirely to bypass guildies completely in favor of PuG's to get some extra gold. I mean, that seems kind of fucked up, and if there other reasons for them not getting in on a run besides not being a progression raider, why are they in the guild at all? It just seems like a slap in the face.
40 people in the guild, 10 of them decide to sacrifice time, money and materials to get Bear mounts. The other 30 are only there for the p25 raids not really caring about the 10 people trying to get bears. All 10 people get their bear and now those 30 demand their bear.
Fuck them, they can put together a p10 to get their own bear. There are still 30 people in the guild who don't have one.
edit: Now if they were supporting the 10 people learning the encounter, helping to farm mats, filling in on nights when someone couldn't make it and other miscellaneous things then it is a decision of the original 10.
We have a lot of people in the guild right now that had zero to do with our progression, when we actually raided. All the people that were part of the original crew got bear mounts already. It's the people who basically contribute little to the guild other than witty banter. I don't have a problem with these people, in fact I like most of them. But when they are like "Hey I'd like a bear next Thursday," I'm kinda like o_O? And it's not about the money. I have yet to get a dime from the group selling bear mounts. I come in as a replacement if they need me for anything. And I'm always available to them, therefore I has bare. Anyway, the people I'm talking about are people who are new to the guild, or are just guild friends. I mean... we have one guy who asks for a bear pretty often, but has only ever done Kara with us, has pretty sub-par gear, and hasn't contributed much, if anything at all. Why should we get him a bear mount?
EDIT: Basically what Seg said, excluding 25-man progression on the part of said members. They are tagalongs and stowaways, and while I have nothing against them, I don't feel like I owe them a thing.
EDIT: TL;DR - Being a member of a guild that has a Bear Run Group does not automatically entitle you to a Bear.