The primary job of the Vice-President is to take over in the case that the President can't serve. Their job is to be breathing and have a heartbeat if anything happens to the President. So, what you're saying is that we shouldn't question her ability to take the reins of office. So, what, exactly, should we be judging her based on? Her performance in the swimsuit competition? What else is there to judge her on?
You can judge her on whatever you want. I'm telling you what moderates will think of this argument. It is a lose-lose for the Democrats. You either don't bring it up or you bring it up and it is an unbalanced argument. I've never said experience was an issue for me.
It's not lose-lose. Quite the contrary. Her being made VP doesn't hinder Obama in anything that he's been saying or doing. He hasn't been making arguments like "only people aged 50 or below with less than 5 years of Congressional experience can be president". He gets to continue acting like he's been acting.
Now McCain on the other hand is the one with the issue. He's the one whose act has to change. He can't bring up inexperience anymore. He lost that card, it's gone. His actions have to change, not Obama's, so how on Earth is this lose-lose for Democrats?
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citizen059hello my name is citizenI'm from the InternetRegistered Userregular
I don't know if a year and a half as governor of Alaska is comparable to four years in State Senate and Three years in Congress.
If, with that record, Obama is unfit to be president, then Palin hasn't got a leg to stand on.
But, she isn't running for President. The experience issue is lightened now, but it isn't gone. There is a huge difference between Presidential and Vice-Presidential duties and people aren't assuming McCain will be dead, as much as you guys would like that to be the case.
Yeah, the "OMG HE MIGHT DIE" thing is a bit silly.
How many people used to make jokes about Cheney and his heart problems? He's still tickin'. (ha)
Also let's look at recent presidents (not including Clinton, who is younger):
George HW Bush: 84, still alive
Ronald Reagan: Died at age 93
Jimmy Carter: 83, still alive
Gerald Ford: Died at age 93
Richard Nixon: Died at age 81
Let's set aside how retarded your experience argument is for now, just for convenience, to remember that the VICE PRESIDENTS JOB, PERHAPS THEIR MOST IMPORTANT ROLE, IS TO STEP INTO OFFICE SHOULD THE PRESIDENT BE UNABLE TO LEAD.
When your president is 72 years old, whoever is in #2 better be "ready on day one." If Obama isn't ready to lead, neither is Palin, and the only argument you can make is "Well, let's cross our fingers and hope nothing happens because she's even less experienced than the guy who we've been whining about for the past months."
Look, I'm not trying to debate the merits of the experience argument itself.
I'm simply pointing out that coming from an Obama supporter directed at Palin, it's massively hypocritical.
We're not making the experience argument, Deacon, and you know that. We're pointing out how massively hypocritical it is of McCain to pick her after making the experience argument repeatedly over the past few months.
If you're going to troll, try not to be quite so blatant about it.
Pointing out the hypocrisy means we legitimize the complaint and thus makes us hypocrites!
No, I'm saying that she'll gain experience on the job while McCain does his thing. She also has a hell of a lot more executive experience than Obama does. McCain chose her for obvious reasons. She's a conservative and a woman. These are two camps that McCain from which McCain didn't have solid backing. He's made headway in one with this choice and the other one is solidified now.
Yes, because nothing prepares you better to serve as President of the United States than serving as mayor of Frozen Assfuck, Alaska, and Governor of Alaska.
The mayor of Indianapolis has been an executive over more people than she has.
What is your point sweety?
My point is that Obama probably got more executive experience as a community organizer in Chicago than she did as a Governor of Alaska.
You can't trust people to have the mental fortitude to distinguish between genuine - if somewhat angry - argument and senseless woman beating. A good amount of people will just not see it your way if Biden lays into her like a Pyro on a Medic.
People are stupid. Fair point. Undecideds (especially by the time the debates come around) are really stupid.
I'm saying, as someone who has just seen a Republican congressman beat the holy Hell out of a fellow congresswoman to be a Senate candidate that it doesn't matter as much as people are afraid it will. Then again, Heather Wilson has never tried to make herself look weak. I have no doubt that Palin is pathetic enough that she will do just that.
Because that card is not gone. And Obama still can't counter. That's what I'm saying. It is an unbalanced argument because of the relative positions and falling back on hard-line definitions, as mentioned earlier.
This is not an issue for me one way or another. I'm just explaining that you guys are taking the wrong approach.
Let's set aside how retarded your experience argument is for now, just for convenience, to remember that the VICE PRESIDENTS JOB, PERHAPS THEIR MOST IMPORTANT ROLE, IS TO STEP INTO OFFICE SHOULD THE PRESIDENT BE UNABLE TO LEAD.
When your president is 72 years old, whoever is in #2 better be "ready on day one." If Obama isn't ready to lead, neither is Palin, and the only argument you can make is "Well, let's cross our fingers and hope nothing happens because she's even less experienced than the guy who we've been whining about for the past months."
Look, I'm not trying to debate the merits of the experience argument itself.
I'm simply pointing out that coming from an Obama supporter directed at Palin, it's massively hypocritical.
We're not making the experience argument, Deacon, and you know that. We're pointing out how massively hypocritical it is of McCain to pick her after making the experience argument repeatedly over the past few months.
If you're going to troll, try not to be quite so blatant about it.
Pointing out the hypocrisy means we legitimize the complaint and thus makes us hypocrites!
Because that card is not gone. And Obama still can't counter. That's what I'm saying. It is an unbalanced argument because of the relative positions and falling back on hard-line definitions, as mentioned earlier.
This is not an issue for me one way or another. I'm just explaining that you guys are taking the wrong approach.
I'm curious why you say Obama can't counter. Is Sarah Palin ready to step into the White House?
If Obama is an empty suit, as McCain has suggested, is Palin suited for the Oval Office herself?
She is younger and less experienced than the first-term Illinois senator, and brings an ethical shadow to the ticket. Just 20 months ago, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, a town of 6,500 where the biggest issue is controlling growth and the biggest annual worry is whether there will be enough snow for the Iditarod dog-mushing race.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Because that card is not gone. And Obama still can't counter. That's what I'm saying. It is an unbalanced argument because of the relative positions and falling back on hard-line definitions, as mentioned earlier.
This is not an issue for me one way or another. I'm just explaining that you guys are taking the wrong approach.
You have to notice the speed with which you're running away from this argument, trying to distance yourself as much as possible, is indicative that it's not a particularly good argument.
"Palin has more experience than Obama*".
Obama: More experience? I changed this, helped this, made that, organized this. And what have you done that makes you more experienced, been a mayor of a 5400 person town? I've organized triple that amount on regular events as a community organizer.
Something like that. The counter-argument is simple, it's the one Obama's been using from the start. When you use tricky wording or convuluted logic or misquotes against him, he confronts it directly, and head-on. When you say he has less experience than someone who was mayor of a town ten times smaller than my college, he's going to retort directly back citing his experience and actions in actually helping people.
Wow, I woke up this morning, heard the news, and couldn't believe it. I've lived in Alaska all my life and never ever thought we would get a local politician in the white house. I may have more information about Palin then the rest so I will spill the beans.
Palin was the major of a po dunk town called wasilla, very low population but considering it was very close to anchorage it gets a fair amount of attention and the town itself has experienced vast amount of population growth. She ran against former governor Tony Knowles in 2006 and defeated him to become Governor of Alaska. She easily beat Frank Merkowski in the primaries due to his unpopularity. As soon as she was elected I immediatly began seeing T-shirts saying, "America's Hottest Governor Lives HERE" and such things as that. She got pregnant and had a baby while in office. She is currently under investigation over the firing of a health official as a favor to her brother in law. For this reason many Alaskans disreguarded her as a vice presidental nominee.
While there is a large pocket of republicans in Alaska a majority of its voting citizens are independant or most often, leaning libertarian. We hate taxes and people gettin' in our business (cough* cough* ANWR). An example of an Alaskan stance is gay marriage. We had an exploratory vote on whether or not to legalize gay marriage in Alaska. Mainly republicans on one side, and democrats and some libertarians on the other. The voted showed that a majority of Alaskans supported gay marriage. If independants were allowed to vote in the primaries there is a good chance that Ron Paul would have won Alaska. This is quite evident when every alaska got a phone call from his supporters begging independants to register as republicans.
But back to Palin. She is young, she is a woman, she has a son heading or in Iraq, she is Evangelical, she has great experience with energy and its development in Alaska. I mean hell, energy has caused so much governmental wealth in alaska that every citizen will receive over $2000 for the permanent fund, and another $1200 for a energy cost rebate check.
All I have to say is... wow, daring move Mccain. It is likely to pay off in his favor big time.
No, I'm saying that she'll gain experience on the job while McCain does his thing. She also has a hell of a lot more executive experience than Obama does. McCain chose her for obvious reasons. She's a conservative and a woman. These are two camps that McCain from which McCain didn't have solid backing. He's made headway in one with this choice and the other one is solidified now.
Yes, because nothing prepares you better to serve as President of the United States than serving as mayor of Frozen Assfuck, Alaska, and Governor of Alaska.
The mayor of Indianapolis has been an executive over more people than she has.
The mayor of Austin, Texas, has been an executive over more people than she has.
Something like that. The counter-argument is simple, it's the one Obama's been using from the start. When you use tricky wording or convuluted logic or misquotes against him, he confronts it directly, and head-on. When you say he has less experience than someone who was mayor of a town ten times smaller than my college, he's going to retort directly back citing his experience and actions in actually helping people.
And none of it works. You saw the polls before the convention. Was it working? Will it work? I don't think so.
We're not making the experience argument, Deacon, and you know that. We're pointing out how massively hypocritical it is of McCain to pick her after making the experience argument repeatedly over the past few months.
If you're going to troll, try not to be quite so blatant about it.
Nice try bro, the initial critique I quoted was a straight-faced denouncement of Palin as a photogenic novice. Hell, here's a quote from the initial Obama camp response to the pick:
the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency
So no, you (both here and the collective left) are definitely trying to make that argument (or you were before you realized how dumb it was).
Nice to see that you're still wildly hitting the "troll" button when your insular views are challenged in any way, though. Some things never change.
Now McCain on the other hand is the one with the issue. He's the one whose act has to change. He can't bring up inexperience anymore. He lost that card, it's gone. His actions have to change, not Obama's, so how on Earth is this lose-lose for Democrats?
You guys do realize that it is Obama running for Pres, and Palin is running for VP, right? o_O
I am laughing at this clawing for hope from you Dems. "Oh please please please it can't be this bad right?"
Now McCain on the other hand is the one with the issue. He's the one whose act has to change. He can't bring up inexperience anymore. He lost that card, it's gone. His actions have to change, not Obama's, so how on Earth is this lose-lose for Democrats?
You guys do realize that it is Obama running for Pres, and Palin is running for VP, right? o_O
I am laughing at this clawing for hope from you Dems. "Oh please please please it can't be this bad right?"
Good luck.
You see, comparing Biden and Palin isn't fair by any stretch of imagination. :P
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Something like that. The counter-argument is simple, it's the one Obama's been using from the start. When you use tricky wording or convuluted logic or misquotes against him, he confronts it directly, and head-on. When you say he has less experience than someone who was mayor of a town ten times smaller than my college, he's going to retort directly back citing his experience and actions in actually helping people.
And none of it works. You saw the polls before the convention. Was it working? Will it work? I don't think so.
:-) Did you watch the acceptance speech yesterday? Unlike the Primaries where he retorted Hillary fairly immediately, he's been holding back the retort for a couple weeks and let it all go during the speech. It was pretty epic, and dead on. Even the media, who usually love to hate Obama, where awed by the speech. You'll see the result in the Gallup in a couple days, provided the whole Palin thing doesn't just muddy everything into chaos.
Of course she does. Oil provides jobs, money, and energy to the country. Everyone should like oil. It is part of a comprehensive energy plan that needs significant reform.
Now McCain on the other hand is the one with the issue. He's the one whose act has to change. He can't bring up inexperience anymore. He lost that card, it's gone. His actions have to change, not Obama's, so how on Earth is this lose-lose for Democrats?
You guys do realize that it is Obama running for Pres, and Palin is running for VP, right? o_O
I am laughing at this clawing for hope from you Dems. "Oh please please please it can't be this bad right?"
Good luck.
What is the requirement difference between President and VP.
Quick, answer Palin's own question: What does the VP do, anyways?
Let's set aside how retarded your experience argument is for now, just for convenience, to remember that the VICE PRESIDENTS JOB, PERHAPS THEIR MOST IMPORTANT ROLE, IS TO STEP INTO OFFICE SHOULD THE PRESIDENT BE UNABLE TO LEAD.
When your president is 72 years old, whoever is in #2 better be "ready on day one." If Obama isn't ready to lead, neither is Palin, and the only argument you can make is "Well, let's cross our fingers and hope nothing happens because she's even less experienced than the guy who we've been whining about for the past months."
Look, I'm not trying to debate the merits of the experience argument itself.
I'm simply pointing out that coming from an Obama supporter directed at Palin, it's massively hypocritical.
It's massively hypocritical to say that it's massively hypocritical to vote for someone inexperienced because Obama is inexperienced?
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Yeah, the "OMG HE MIGHT DIE" thing is a bit silly.
How many people used to make jokes about Cheney and his heart problems? He's still tickin'. (ha)
Also let's look at recent presidents (not including Clinton, who is younger):
George HW Bush: 84, still alive
Ronald Reagan: Died at age 93
Jimmy Carter: 83, still alive
Gerald Ford: Died at age 93
Richard Nixon: Died at age 81
I'd say McCain still has some years left in him.
Pointing out the hypocrisy means we legitimize the complaint and thus makes us hypocrites!
People are stupid. Fair point. Undecideds (especially by the time the debates come around) are really stupid.
I'm saying, as someone who has just seen a Republican congressman beat the holy Hell out of a fellow congresswoman to be a Senate candidate that it doesn't matter as much as people are afraid it will. Then again, Heather Wilson has never tried to make herself look weak. I have no doubt that Palin is pathetic enough that she will do just that.
Still. I see no point in pulling punches.
This is not an issue for me one way or another. I'm just explaining that you guys are taking the wrong approach.
Logical!
I'm curious why you say Obama can't counter. Is Sarah Palin ready to step into the White House?
Only if McCain wins and Alaska is rid of her, she's sued to make them no longer endangered so there can be more drilling.
Sarah Palin hates this guy:
The internet has made time in politics seem really weird.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/us/06brfs-SUITFILEDOVE_BRF.html?_r=2&ref=us&oref=slogin&oref=slogin'
NO ITS NOT. SHES AGAINST POLAR BEARS.
EDIT: Fun fact -- Polar Bears have black skin.
Wait, what? Are you kidding?
I thought I found out about it late, but I guess not. :P
You have to notice the speed with which you're running away from this argument, trying to distance yourself as much as possible, is indicative that it's not a particularly good argument.
"Palin has more experience than Obama*".
Obama: More experience? I changed this, helped this, made that, organized this. And what have you done that makes you more experienced, been a mayor of a 5400 person town? I've organized triple that amount on regular events as a community organizer.
Something like that. The counter-argument is simple, it's the one Obama's been using from the start. When you use tricky wording or convuluted logic or misquotes against him, he confronts it directly, and head-on. When you say he has less experience than someone who was mayor of a town ten times smaller than my college, he's going to retort directly back citing his experience and actions in actually helping people.
Palin was the major of a po dunk town called wasilla, very low population but considering it was very close to anchorage it gets a fair amount of attention and the town itself has experienced vast amount of population growth. She ran against former governor Tony Knowles in 2006 and defeated him to become Governor of Alaska. She easily beat Frank Merkowski in the primaries due to his unpopularity. As soon as she was elected I immediatly began seeing T-shirts saying, "America's Hottest Governor Lives HERE" and such things as that. She got pregnant and had a baby while in office. She is currently under investigation over the firing of a health official as a favor to her brother in law. For this reason many Alaskans disreguarded her as a vice presidental nominee.
While there is a large pocket of republicans in Alaska a majority of its voting citizens are independant or most often, leaning libertarian. We hate taxes and people gettin' in our business (cough* cough* ANWR). An example of an Alaskan stance is gay marriage. We had an exploratory vote on whether or not to legalize gay marriage in Alaska. Mainly republicans on one side, and democrats and some libertarians on the other. The voted showed that a majority of Alaskans supported gay marriage. If independants were allowed to vote in the primaries there is a good chance that Ron Paul would have won Alaska. This is quite evident when every alaska got a phone call from his supporters begging independants to register as republicans.
But back to Palin. She is young, she is a woman, she has a son heading or in Iraq, she is Evangelical, she has great experience with energy and its development in Alaska. I mean hell, energy has caused so much governmental wealth in alaska that every citizen will receive over $2000 for the permanent fund, and another $1200 for a energy cost rebate check.
All I have to say is... wow, daring move Mccain. It is likely to pay off in his favor big time.
Or Jacksonville Florida.
Or Louisville Kentucky.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Nope
And none of it works. You saw the polls before the convention. Was it working? Will it work? I don't think so.
Oh. Well, except for the governor Patrick Fitzgerald sent to prison.
Nice try bro, the initial critique I quoted was a straight-faced denouncement of Palin as a photogenic novice. Hell, here's a quote from the initial Obama camp response to the pick:
So no, you (both here and the collective left) are definitely trying to make that argument (or you were before you realized how dumb it was).
Nice to see that you're still wildly hitting the "troll" button when your insular views are challenged in any way, though. Some things never change.
You guys do realize that it is Obama running for Pres, and Palin is running for VP, right? o_O
I am laughing at this clawing for hope from you Dems. "Oh please please please it can't be this bad right?"
Good luck.
Oh my God the Colbert Report is going to be the best show in the entire universe for the next week.
So would you say she's ready to step into the White House?
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
You see, comparing Biden and Palin isn't fair by any stretch of imagination. :P
:-) Did you watch the acceptance speech yesterday? Unlike the Primaries where he retorted Hillary fairly immediately, he's been holding back the retort for a couple weeks and let it all go during the speech. It was pretty epic, and dead on. Even the media, who usually love to hate Obama, where awed by the speech. You'll see the result in the Gallup in a couple days, provided the whole Palin thing doesn't just muddy everything into chaos.
What is the requirement difference between President and VP.
Quick, answer Palin's own question: What does the VP do, anyways?
Sue Polar Bears!