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Systems for "roll your own" role-playing?
mcc
glitchRegistered User, ClubPA regular
glitchRegistered User, ClubPA regular
Let's say I'm interested in the idea of just tossing together a role-playing game in some random world or story totally of my own design.
However, there's one thing stopping me, and it's wondering: If I'm going to do something like that, what gaming system do I use?
The obvious answer is, "don't use any system", make things up as I go along. I know this can work; one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had was one week in the D20 Wheel of Time group when the DM got bored, and just said at the beginning of the session: Okay, never mind the normal game, we're doing something different. For this game session, you are each playing characters which are, for all practical purposes, you. You have whatever strengths, skills, and backgrounds you have in real life. You are, for reasons unimporant to the current situation, all together in a car driving through rural Maine. As the road gets thinner and smaller and you gradually begin to realize you are lost, your car breaks down in a snowdrift. What do you do? From that starting point "we" climbed down the hill and into a gigantic ball of cliches from Stephen King and Lovecraft, all lurking in a small Maine ghost town at the bottom of the hill. The game session ended when we managed to start an abandoned car and escape away from the horror and out to civilization, with a small coda about one member of the group being treated for frostbite and the state police being entirely unable to explain how an entire town of people could have just disappeared. The entire thing was great fun, and the setup allowed for lots of neat little details-- for example the group had a couple of wiccans in it, and within the magical realism of the naarative their personal spiritual beliefs wound up having direct real-world relevance to how they tackled the problem of dealing with a supernatural enemy.
However, while the "no system, just make it up as you go along" approach worked really well in that one case, I don't think it would work in an extended gaming campaign.
There are some things that, as a DM, I can't just make up, or can't make up fairly-- things like what happens when you accrue damage in combat, or exactly how much "strength" each character has. The only system I've ever DMed was Storyteller (playing Mage); in that case I don't remember I rolled a die once during the entire normal game, and I only used the "system" to determine exactly what the personal limitations of each character were-- but that was truly necessary, because without that objective system for putting numbers to each characters' abilities I don't think I could have managed to ensure that each player started out with a character whose worth was both reasonable and equally balanced with that of the other players. Unfortunately, at least with the old storyteller system (I'm not familiar with the new one, but I hear it's improved), even though the amount of use I was getting out of the game mechanics was relatively minimal, those mechanics were so deeply tied to the magic system and universe of the Mage world that I couldn't have just torn them out and dropped them in a setting of my own design. So I guess I'm looking for something that gets out of my way at least as much as the storyteller system does, but gives me at least enough support that I can feel like what I'm doing is fair and "realistic".
What gaming system or systems have youall found work well for "roll your own" or freeform style roleplaying games?
D20?
GURPS? (Does this even still exist?)
Storyteller?
Thanks.
However, there's one thing stopping me, and it's wondering: If I'm going to do something like that, what gaming system do I use?
The obvious answer is, "don't use any system", make things up as I go along. I know this can work; one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had was one week in the D20 Wheel of Time group when the DM got bored, and just said at the beginning of the session: Okay, never mind the normal game, we're doing something different. For this game session, you are each playing characters which are, for all practical purposes, you. You have whatever strengths, skills, and backgrounds you have in real life. You are, for reasons unimporant to the current situation, all together in a car driving through rural Maine. As the road gets thinner and smaller and you gradually begin to realize you are lost, your car breaks down in a snowdrift. What do you do? From that starting point "we" climbed down the hill and into a gigantic ball of cliches from Stephen King and Lovecraft, all lurking in a small Maine ghost town at the bottom of the hill. The game session ended when we managed to start an abandoned car and escape away from the horror and out to civilization, with a small coda about one member of the group being treated for frostbite and the state police being entirely unable to explain how an entire town of people could have just disappeared. The entire thing was great fun, and the setup allowed for lots of neat little details-- for example the group had a couple of wiccans in it, and within the magical realism of the naarative their personal spiritual beliefs wound up having direct real-world relevance to how they tackled the problem of dealing with a supernatural enemy.
However, while the "no system, just make it up as you go along" approach worked really well in that one case, I don't think it would work in an extended gaming campaign.
There are some things that, as a DM, I can't just make up, or can't make up fairly-- things like what happens when you accrue damage in combat, or exactly how much "strength" each character has. The only system I've ever DMed was Storyteller (playing Mage); in that case I don't remember I rolled a die once during the entire normal game, and I only used the "system" to determine exactly what the personal limitations of each character were-- but that was truly necessary, because without that objective system for putting numbers to each characters' abilities I don't think I could have managed to ensure that each player started out with a character whose worth was both reasonable and equally balanced with that of the other players. Unfortunately, at least with the old storyteller system (I'm not familiar with the new one, but I hear it's improved), even though the amount of use I was getting out of the game mechanics was relatively minimal, those mechanics were so deeply tied to the magic system and universe of the Mage world that I couldn't have just torn them out and dropped them in a setting of my own design. So I guess I'm looking for something that gets out of my way at least as much as the storyteller system does, but gives me at least enough support that I can feel like what I'm doing is fair and "realistic".
What gaming system or systems have youall found work well for "roll your own" or freeform style roleplaying games?
D20?
GURPS? (Does this even still exist?)
Storyteller?
Thanks.
mcc on
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Posts
What you are looking for is what you listed.. a generic system.
I'd point to my personal favorite (and the free one), the dX system. But that's just me, I haven't done much generic rp.
What do you mean by dX? Is that what I think of as d20?
In the backlash of the gaming industry against d20's rules-oriented rp structuring, Guardians of Order adapted their engine from Big Eyes, Small Mouth and Silver Age Sentinels to use in a generic format. It's basically a cinematic system, that used the dice # to represent the power of the game (8 being average, I believe, and 20 being gods).
The only real flaw it has is that once characters become really powerful, there isn't an easy way to scale between the dice, and the system beraks down.
On the other hand.. it's completely and utterly free.
For example, in my current sci-fi setting that's a compilation of everything that's cool about the future, I just based it off of d20 future, ditched what I thought was stupid and went from there. If I don't like the rules, I look around other d20 products or craft my own.
Others may knock d20 but for this kind of stuff, it's quite the tits.
you just need to find a book that approximates what you are going for, and work from there (in regards to d20).
Yes, exactly. There's a plethora of awesome books out that will cover you, no matter what. d20 Past? d20 Apocalypse? Actually, that one is fucking aweosme. Mad Max setting for the win.
I had a friend once, who went on proclaiming that d10 was way better than d20 because you could rate how well someone did on a task with d10, rather than whether or not they sucessfully completed the task with d20. There's no reason your DC's can't have a range of sucess and failure to make the skills a bit deeper- it's just that people follow the law of the DC to the letter.
XBL: LiquidSnake2061
The other problem with D20 as I see it is how extremely combat-oriented it is. While in some ways this is a good thing-- I sincerely think D20's combat system is really good-- I've yet to see personally how exactly it works in a non-combat-oriented campaign.
Yes, but think of all those systems you named--those are all derived from the D&D d20 system, all derivatives. d20 is extremelely easy to adapy, if you modify the system for youself, like you do with diplomacy checks.
XBL: LiquidSnake2061
Kitbash.
Seriously, I see what you are wanting and d20 is perfect. All you need to do is approach with a bit more open-endness. Almost all of those books can really apply anywhere. For example, the d20 Cyberspace (a book on cybernetics) has an entire chapter on how to adpet cybernetics into a medieval game. And that's what the developer themselves are telling you. You can just sit back and pull ideas from various books to build a frame.
Or just use the SRD and form even more of your rules and framework to run your game on. The thing about d20 is there are thousands upon thousands of books just on http://www.rpgnow.com/ alone. Don't like a certain skill? Look over a book on skills to find one you like and drag and drop, with minimal fuss.
For your lockpicking example, if the character gains enough XP to grab a skill and wants a lockpicking skill, then just add it to the game. Or have him use it untrained. d20 skills can be moved aroun with almost no adjusting. That's what I love so much. If I see a PrC or a skill or feat I like, I can make it available to the players next session with no problems. It's pretty fluid that way, without having to worry about writing all your own feats or rules, etc.
As for non-combat, that's not really a problem either. It all depends on how you GM. Award the players XP based on how they handle bribing the Count or inspiring the populace to revolt. Use the idea of DCs and checks against them set diffculty. Really, non-combat oriented is where the GM truly shines by offering tough enough situations with aquedate rewards worked around.
For example, I remember a d20 game where my players encountered cybernetic pirates taking over their ship. They spent the entire session plotting how to take over the cybernetic network that linked all the pirates brains and crafting a way to hijack directly into the neural network. THe entire session, the d20 was rolled maybe three or four times, for craft checks and the like. WHen the players succesfully came up with a plan and pulled off the DC checks, I rewarded them with another clue to the puzzle they were working on.
I hope this makes sense. I'm a long-time veteran of forming d20 to my whims and I think it gets knocked around more then it ought.
*looks at bookshelf* Yep, and I'd highly recommend it for a "roll yer own" campaign. GURPS is wonderful for crazy, made-up shit. I DMed a time travel game in it once, and it's perfect for it because it will actually support the idea of space marines fighting pirates. No, seriously.
The one complaint about GURPS is that it gets too complicated. Everyone's seen the joke picture about the integral to get the boat, and that's half true. GURPS works best when you can relax and let go of the rules a litte, because there really is a rule for everything if you really feel like looking it up.
The other system I've used before for these kinds of games is FUDGE. As the name implies, it's light on rules and encourages make it up as you go along gameplay. Can't say too much about it as I've only used it once, but it may be worth looking into.
CHESS!
That said, the Fudge system works well for bullshittin' it, freeform RPGs, especially for new GMs and players.
I was never a big fan of the GURPS system. It always seemed a bit too unweildly to be completely mutable. Then again, my experience with GURPS was pretty limited.
I have a certain amount of like and dislike for the whole d20 thing, all said. Yes, it's great for some games, but not for all. I find that it lends itself more to combat-heavy games. And yes, I've played the d20 version of Call of Cthulhu, and I still prefer the old Chaosium rules.
Using the Storyteller system is kind of...well... I have a lot of problems with the system as a whole. It's good for some things, but I'd leave it to the Children Of The Night, personally. It's great for bloodsucking, shape-shifting, rote-casting, self-loathing games, but all in all, it's not really adaptable to any other system. Well, unless you count Ars Magica.
Actually, to be perfectly fucking honest as shit, use the system you are most used to. If you play a lot of d20 games, use d20. If you play GURPS, use GURPS. If you want to try something you've never heard of, use the Tri-Stat system.
I've played a lot of games with a lot of systems. It's always easier when you go back to something familiar.
Of course it also has a reputation for requiring a lot of work to be put in to do anything and for some people just plain not getting it. Said core book also happens to be thick enough to stop bullets (no, really, they fired guns at the thing to see how long it would last, the video is on their site.).
What I do know is that it is a completely effects based system. If two "powers" would have the same net result they are treated exactly the same by the mechanics, regardless of how they "work".
Of course, there's also GURPS, which some people swear by but I'm not overly fond of. It may be called the Generic Universal Role Playing System but it has a reputation for leaning towards simulating more reality based stuff rather than cinematic stuff.
Then there's the lesser known option of Tri-Stat, house system of (the, sadly, now deceased) Guardians of Order. It originated in BESM (Big Eyes, Small Mouth) but has since been used for all sorts of things. It is available for free in the form of Tri-Stat dX, mentioned earlier in this thread but that is actually supposed to be out and out the worst version of it, download and look at it by all means but don't let it put you off. Your best bet with Tri-Stat is waiting for the 3rd edition of BESM that's coming soon (the book was finished, White Wolf have picked up publishing rights), where they switch to a roll-over dice mechanic. It might purport to be an anime game but it's really a generic system with anime window dressing. Bear in mind that Tri-Stat, while simpler than Hero or GURPS, leans heavily towards the cinematic rather than the realistic (yes, even dX).
I would like to say that D20 isn't really all that suited to what you're after. Classes and levels work fine for a dungeon crawl but if you want to be able to do anything without first having to adapt the rules you're probably much better off with a completely points based system like Hero, GURPS or Tri-Stat.
Major truth here.
Absolutely true.
Also Absolutely true.
You pretty much summed it up. When deciding exactly what your abilities are and how much they cost, you look at what they do. To take an example: sunglasses. They help keep bright lights from blinding you. This is the 'Flash Defense' power, sight based. You have the power in a focus, so it's cheaper than normal. Pick the amount of dice which it protects you from, and you're set. You could also just be from a race of aliens which has a second set of eyelids which close automatically when bright lights go off. This would also be Flash Defense, sight based, but it's not in a focus, and could be more effective. However, the core power is still the same.
Alternatively, with a more offense stance, there's the Flash power, which basically blinds a sense. It could be a flashbang grenade, that blinding move everyone falls for in DBZ, or an ear-piercing screech which deafens you, or a really strong odor which overpowers everything else.
HERO is a great system, but I'm not sure if it's what you need. Like was said, it can, with just the core book, do anything you need it to do. However, it will take a lot of time, a lot of reading, and a lot of figuring, especially if you want to do really crazy things. I think you probably want something a little more freeform than that. However, if you just want a generic system which can be applied to any genre/no genre, then HERO definitely fits the bill.