"In the closing minutes of Penny Arcade Expo 2008, some publishers and developers went to extreme measures to clear our their swag inventory and goodies. But none of them matched Bungie's zeal. The Halo developers went through what looked to be eight large boxes of Halo-themed games, toys and gear. The Bungie folks just tore open the boxes and started throwing stuff everywhere, heedless of heads, flat screens and the ceiling."
kenpachisan: Well I agree with some of your points (though not as vehemently), you might as well accept that you're going to be in the minority here. If you've got complaints, back them up with some constructive ideas on how to improve it. Also, find an e-mail address to send them to; no one all that official tends to look at these boards, and even rarer take anything said on them seriously. ;-)
Wrong :P Khoo reads these things all the time, espically after pax in sugguestion threads and such. Plus a few of us enforcers read them and pass along good ideas and sugguestions on how to improve things.
In that case, I do have a suggestion. Sometimes people would line up for a panel that was held in a small room (especially if it was a particularly popular panel). Those rooms have max capacities so not to violate the fire code. One thing the encforcers might think about doing next year is getting a few of the $3 manual counters (like this - available at Archie McFee's) and walk thru the line counting people off with the clicker. Once they count up to the max capacity that the room can hold, they should cut the line off and tell those who are past the cut-off and still waiting to go enjoy other things because the room is at capacity. That would solve the problem a lot of people ran into who were waiting in line because they thought there was still hope of getting into a room that was stuffed to the gills. If they were informed they weren't going to get in, they could go do other things instead of waiting and clinging to the false hope that they'll get in. Just a suggestion.
Astayonix on
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yay, just realized the stupid moron at the shirt stand gave me one of my shirts as a 2x... I bought 2 and saix 3x for both, the other one was a 3x. Well, considering how pathetic pax is I won't even bother seeing if they can make it right.
"In the closing minutes of Penny Arcade Expo 2008, some publishers and developers went to extreme measures to clear our their swag inventory and goodies. But none of them matched Bungie's zeal. The Halo developers went through what looked to be eight large boxes of Halo-themed games, toys and gear. The Bungie folks just tore open the boxes and started throwing stuff everywhere, heedless of heads, flat screens and the ceiling."
Good thing everyone gave away swag while most of the con was at the Omegathon. It really rewards those who believe that PAX is about the Gamers and Community, rather than the Trade Show.
The space was beeing shared with another con (lol gender oddesey).
What's so funny about Gender Odysey? Seriously. "*Giggles like a stupid 5th grader* OMG, there are gay people having a con! *Giggle, giggle*" Grow up, shitbag. My brother is a transgendered man and was attending Gender Odysey. It was awesome to see him there enjoying a con that means as much to him as PAX means to me. So they happened to have their con at the same time PAX was going on. So? I'll bet you're one of those stupid fucks who in games calls everyone a fag. Good on ya, jerk.
Astayonix on
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The space was beeing shared with another con (lol gender oddesey).
What's so funny about Gender Odysey? Seriously. "*Giggles like a stupid 5th grader* OMG, there are gay people having a con! *Giggle, giggle*" Grow up, shitbag. My brother is a transgendered man and was attending Gender Odysey. It was awesome to see him there enjoying a con that means as much to him as PAX means to me. So they happened to have their con at the same time PAX was going on. So? I'll bet you're one of those stupid fucks who in games calls everyone a fag. Good on ya, jerk.
I agree with you that they have their convention, so what?
But who's genius idea was it to have a "Gender Odyssey" convention above an estimated 60,000 people, 75% of who's time is spent on Ventrilo and Xbox Live screaming "**** you ya faggot!" and "that was so ****ing gay!!" during TF2 and Halo 3?
Not looking to complain or anything, just pointing out an amusing choice of convention times between both groups.
Would the WSCTC host the "Vietnam Communist Party" reunion gathering in the ballroom while having the "U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran's" reunion a floor below?
"In the closing minutes of Penny Arcade Expo 2008, some publishers and developers went to extreme measures to clear our their swag inventory and goodies. But none of them matched Bungie's zeal. The Halo developers went through what looked to be eight large boxes of Halo-themed games, toys and gear. The Bungie folks just tore open the boxes and started throwing stuff everywhere, heedless of heads, flat screens and the ceiling."
Holy Fuck I should have stayed until 6pm there then. I was in some newgrounds booth and there was a crowd chanting "free stuff" and the booth people were flinging shirts over other booths for people to catch.
Generals on
jsn: and there was some dude(note that: DUDE) dressed up as Mai from KOF
Jeff: I see
jsn: and I was like "I wonder how he goes to the washroom, does he just like...brush his loincloth to the side or what?"
jsn: friend was like "DUDE he's BEHIND YOU"
The space was beeing shared with another con (lol gender oddesey).
What's so funny about Gender Odysey? Seriously. "*Giggles like a stupid 5th grader* OMG, there are gay people having a con! *Giggle, giggle*" Grow up, shitbag. My brother is a transgendered man and was attending Gender Odysey. It was awesome to see him there enjoying a con that means as much to him as PAX means to me. So they happened to have their con at the same time PAX was going on. So? I'll bet you're one of those stupid fucks who in games calls everyone a fag. Good on ya, jerk.
I agree with you that they have their convention, so what?
But who's genius idea was it to have a "Gender Odyssey" convention above an estimated 60,000 people, 75% of who's time is spent on Ventrilo and Xbox Live screaming "**** you ya faggot!" and "that was so ****ing gay!!" during TF2 and Halo 3?
Not looking to complain or anything, just pointing out an amusing choice of convention times between both groups.
Would the WSCTC host the "Vietnam Communist Party" reunion gathering in the ballroom while having the "U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran's" reunion a floor below?
That analogy is very stretched, but I do see the lulz in PAX + Gender Odyssey.
Here's my 2 cents on the whole PAX '08 experience.
First, the lines: I have zero problem waiting in lines. I flew days after 9/11, fly no less than 15 times a year, have worked retail on Black Friday, and commute every day to and from work on a bus that's so full I have to stand pressed like a sardine against the back wall for an hour each way. I'm well versed in lines, but I was disappointed in PAX's lines.
Here's why; No Intelligent Line Management. The difference between the above situations and PAX is that the airports, the retail department stores and the bus all use effective line management. This would include ropes, signage and line manager communication.
Does anyone remember the line to get to the nVidia / BFG booth last year for the free t-shirt and buttons? That line was well defined with duct tape on the ground, signs marking "this is the line" taped up on the back of vendor booths, and a TON of Enforcers every 20-30 people or so making sure everyone was single or double-file. The line wrapped around to the right wall and snaked down almost near the Turbine booth, but it had breaks in it for people to get through without having to shove. The breaks were maintained by the Enforcers to make sure the nVidia / BFG vendor's booth didn't kill the enjoyment of PAX for the other Vendors and PAX-goers because of the promotion that BFG decided to put on. This was a hell of a line, and the Enforcers were hailed as so awesome for making sure everyone was in order.
Flash forward to PAX '08, about the time that the Fallout 3 demo got out. The demo began a few minutes early and let out quite a earlier than expected. I heard an Enforcer on a radio saying something to the effect of "oh, crap. They let out early... we need to get some people in place, NOW." Suddenly, the thousands of people attending the demo were all rushing the Fallout 3 booth because of a promotion Bethesda unleashed, earlier than the Enforcers were prepared for. By the time I managed to push through to the booth, there were no less than 3 independent "lines" which kept shifting, all the while I kept being told "oh, this is the back of 'the' line" several times. There were no ropes until an hour later. I decided to just skip it and went back about 2 hours after to redeem my cards. By the end of it, I was ticked off at Bethesda for not working a little closer with the Enforcers to ensure a good flow to their booth.
The problem this year wasn't so much the volume of people, or the concentration of vendors in the expo hall, it had simply to do with a lack of line control. I'd guess it stems from a lack of communications between the vendors and the Enforcers.
Second, the swag: It really seemed to most people this year that the swag was nearly non-existent and initially I agreed. Sitting on it after the fact, though, I have to say that the swag quality was on par with last year. That's not to say I don't take issue with it, though.
Sure, this year you weren't able to just approach a booth and have someone ask you what shirt you wanted in what size. You actually had to go talk to someone about the game. Or God forbid, play the game for 5 minutes. I don't see anything wrong with this. In a receding economy, you can't necessarily afford to print 60,000 t-shirts. You'll want to print 15,000 and give them for free to only those people who would be in the market for your game. How do you do this? You isolate those folks by talking to them and getting them to demo it. You don't just hand a shirt out to every person who walks by. I'm perfectly fine with this approach.
What I didn't like however, was the mass amount of paper swag being given out this year. In an age where everyone and their brother is using the "going Green" movement as a marketing tactic, I don't get how it can be acceptable for your company's marketing department to approve a 60,000 sheet paper marketing campaign for your video game. ESPECIALLY in Seattle of all places. We're all such "Green-ophiles" in the Pacific Northwest, yet they allowed all this paper to happen. Wonderful choice, guys.
Not only that, but the majority of us gamers are guys. (Like it or not.) When we get shirts and computer accessories as swag, we tend to use it for YEARS afterward. When we get stacks of paper that we'll look over once or twice from the exhibitors, our wives, girlfriends and mothers tend to get pissed off at all the clutter and it needs to go. This doesn't seem to be good marketing sense. I'm fine with limiting your t-shirt swag, because it costs real money to produce, but what's the point in throwing money away on paper advertising when 90% of it will be in the garbage after PAX?
Third, the attendees: Everyone seemed really on edge on Friday, and it really did suck to be in the expo hall then. Most people had been waiting in line for 2+ hours only to find out that their buddies who just arrived were already in checking out Fallout 3 and such. This is such an aggravating experience for most people that there was a lot of "crowd anger" going on. People all unwilling to move to let you through, even after asking. A LOT of elbows and tripping.
Saturday seemed to cool off a little, but Sunday was the first day that the crowd really seemed to calm down and started enjoying the show for the show.
A little advice for next year; treat the crowds as they are - a big, dumb mass of animals waiting anxiously for their reward. If you make them wait, PLEASE prevent others from getting in ahead of them. If 250 people getting in early pisses off 5,000 people, it tends to make EVERYONE in the crowds pissy. Shit does roll downhill, and the mass effect of emotions on crowds is a very real phenomena. How else do violent mobs start?
Forth, the food and drink: I agree that we're in downtown Seattle and there's a TON of food nearby to go eat. This isn't a problem.
What I had issue with was the lack of canned drinks and most of all: WHERE WAS ALL THE BAWLS???!?!?!
The folks at the awesome Brawndo booth told me that the convention center management banned them from being able to sell or give away any canned drinks this year because they didn't want to have to clean up all the garbage again. I'd assume this is the reason that only plastic bottled drinks were available, and nothing in a can or a glass bottle, but seriously...
I, and so many others, paid 30-50 dollars a pop to get in. You'd think that at approximately 60,000 people at 40 bucks a pop average, totaling $2,400,000 JUST from ticket sales, they could afford to have 3 or 4 people sweep up 500 empty Brawndo cans. I'm sure the Brawndo booth would have paid $1,000 to hire a team of people to clean up all the empties after PAX if they could have sold them. The profit would have FAR exceeded the cleaning expense, everyone there was going for Brawndo like it was crack in a can.
All in all, I had fun. Sunday was the best day for me, but I like smaller crowds and a more relaxed atmosphere. They seriously need to fix the line management issues, but I don't think this is any one entity's fault - I think blame lies with everyone for this.
the Bawls issue has been brought up and answered so many times, it's amazing to me that this beverage gets so many people riled up and can make or break their PAX experience
once again, the decisions regarding what beverages were available were largely out of Penny Arcade's hands
Personally the whole thing was worth it...I have been following spore pretty seriously...and I knew from the beginning that they were shooting really high...and even now even after cutting quite a few features that it is still a very advanced and innovative game.
I was a little hesitant to try the demo...but luckily the guys there seemed cool...after one guy who played for like an hour, finished up his game I still had like 2 people in front of me...luckily they were cool guys. I told them I wanted to see something that wouldn't take but 5 minutes max.
So I got to see what an eyeless creature in spore plays and looks like...pretty cool really. I was going to ask the guy at the spore panel demo to take the creatures eyes off...but I didn't want to interrupt.
Btw, if you were at the spore panel when the audience asked for him to look up and use deep CROW...he thought you were saying deep THROAT at the end...it was kinda funny watching him squirm a little...that guy was cool.
Overall I had a great experience...especially for the low low price of around 100 bucks. Being local is nice...if it wasn't for having to move your car before midnight. Next year though I am probably getting a hotel room.
NOTE: Also, where else are you going to get to play Fallout 3, or Starcraft 2, or Mirrors Edge, PAX is THE venue for that.
Total parking for One Convention Place was $72 for the weekend. I got two "parking tickets" for "overnight parking," which sucked, but it turns out they were basically just leaving evidence that I'd been there three days -- I paid $10 for parking and $62 in tickets. Since it would've been $31 per day for parking anyway, I came out fine.
That said, I might just see if a local friend can put me up for the weekend next time, because, while I like being with friends in a hotel room, I don't like the end result of sleeping with six other guys in a room. It's not enjoyable to get 3-4 hours of sleep and to have to wait an hour for a shower in the morning.
In that case, I do have a suggestion. Sometimes people would line up for a panel that was held in a small room (especially if it was a particularly popular panel). Those rooms have max capacities so not to violate the fire code. One thing the encforcers might think about doing next year is getting a few of the $3 manual counters (like this - available at Archie McFee's) and walk thru the line counting people off with the clicker.
Best idea in this thread I've seen so far - just tell people "Standby Line will likely begin here or something like that." But if people are holding spots for their clans, that might be a problem. =\
Total parking for One Convention Place was $72 for the weekend. I got two "parking tickets" for "overnight parking," which sucked, but it turns out they were basically just leaving evidence that I'd been there three days -- I paid $10 for parking and $62 in tickets. Since it would've been $31 per day for parking anyway, I came out fine.
That said, I might just see if a local friend can put me up for the weekend next time, because, while I like being with friends in a hotel room, I don't like the end result of sleeping with six other guys in a room. It's not enjoyable to get 3-4 hours of sleep and to have to wait an hour for a shower in the morning.
Mine was $59 for the weekend. I parked at the alternate convention center parking, and I paid at the kiosk. By the time I got down the spiral and approached the exit, I found that there was nobody at the guard shack, the guard gate was up and open. Murphy's law, huh? I wanted to bang my head against the wall :P. God, I still do. :P
Astayonix on
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Lines can be annoying but it's a growing con. I doubt the OPs insistence that he or she has attended other cons, or if true they've been smaller ones. Even been to Comic Con in San Diego or New York? Anime Expo? Those lines are massive, with over an hour wait typical for big events. At PAX I waited no more than half an hour for the popular events. If you don't like lines, don't come to conventions over a certain size. One way, though, as others mentioned, to make the time fly is to talk to your line mates. Make line friends and play games. Standing or sitting around complaining about the line the whole time will just make the wait worse.
The one big line issue I heard of was after a large event; I think it was the Make a Strip panel. The attendees were allowed to stay in the room, so the people outside were not able to get in. PA should decided on a policy of which panels require the room to be cleared or not, post it in the scheduling booklet, and make announcements as people enter, i.e. "You will/will not be allowed to stay in this room after the panel is over." They did it for events in the Raven Theater, but I don't know if they did it elsewhere.
Crowded? I had no issue with crowds. I never felt pushed, showed, or longing for air. But then again, I've also been to the previous cons mentioned and PAX 06, with the smaller venue, was much worse.
Swag did seem less than last year but consider the economy. And then consider the advice of others to TALK to the exhibitors. Also, the booths give it away sporadically, and when they do it's gone in a flash. The NCSoft booth would run out within minutes, and Bungie tossed boxed of figures into the crowd on Sunday, and I believe it was before the Omegathon started.
Food and brawls PAX can't control. The convention center food was overpriced, $6+ for sandwiches or salads, but their lines were shorter. If money is an issue brave the Subway or Taco Del Mar, but I avoid the pizza place just because they tend to run out and be painfully slow. If you don't want to do that, get of your butt and walk two to three blocks. The weather was mostly nice, and there are eating places scattered around downtown Seattle.
Someone mentioned parking, I believe. It's downtown Seattle and not much can be done. I hate it too. The hotels charge a parking fee too, FYI.
More vendors would be nice. PAX can do something about that, but they can't control the prices.
Did the SUMOs seem flatter this year? I love those things but maybe I got the more roughly used ones.
I think Astayonix's aide for a line counter clicker thing -- the technical name -- is a good one. It'll keep people from being disappointed when they can't get in. I'm not sure what to do about spot holding though. Perhaps announce you're doing a count and have people tell you if they are holding and for how many, though please don't have one person hold a space for ten , then tell people at the end that there is a good chance they won't get in. They can wait if they want, but no guarantees?
Overall, though the OP made some valid points, he came off as a douche, insulting people and name calling -- including overweight people when he himself is a 3x-- and I discourage the OP from coming again. Stay home. There are no lines there. Others made the same points, but they did it much more maturely.
Paramnesia on
"Right now I'm having amnesia and deja-vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."
The swag was all rubish... absolute CRAP. I'm not even going to bother talking about it it pisses me off to much. Cheap ass companies... yay a post card with your logo on it I'll frame this right away! Some 12yo kid and a member of the tenchcoat mafia almost took my head off diving for a retarded Dell thin vinyl bag...
Trying to find anything was impossible. The enforcers were all clueless.
Where the hell were the vendors!?! only a couple vendors with CRAZY high prices cause there was no competition at all! $12 for a bleach necklace that sells for $3 on ebay? no thanks...
Alright, I too created an account just to reply to this. I have yet to read through all 6+ pages of replies, but I'm sure a lot of people have told you off already. The above is all I really care to address because I sort of agree with you on this. (I never went to the concert, or stood in lines to play games. I can't justify standing in a 30 minuet line, to play a video game for 10 minutes or less.)
I don't agree with you about the Enforcers though. I think the enforcers did a great job. Every time I asked an enforcer where something was, They would point me right to it. Once, a female enforcer walked with me to make sure I got where I wanted to go. Talk about service! I wish I knew her name so I could thank her on here personally. I hope she attends the next PAX because she was very helpful and we need people like that.
Anyways, yes. The swag this year was crap. This is the third PAX I've been to. I went in '06 and '07 before and both of those years were pretty good. Lot's of cool shit being given away then. I remember in '06 when Wizards was giving out one or two packs of 9th edition of Magic at the door. (I was a big Magic player. so I was very impressed.) The Wizards booth then also handed out these really cool mouse pads with magic art on them, (I still have a couple I use). The last two years, they've become so cheap with how they do things, I have quit magic, and now tell people why NOT to play the game instead of teaching them how to play. (This is really more of a complaint against Wizards really I suppose. PAX has nothing to do with how cheap they've become.) Wizards was giving out a mouse pad but only if you played a demo of their game, and they only wanted to teach new players. (Wizards, I'm done with you.)
This year, I went to PAX only for Friday since I had no friends to go with me. I paid $30 to get in the door thinking that if anything, I would get some cool swag to make up for the $30 and time spent waiting in lines to get from place to place. No. The booths in the Expo had some really cool merchandise, but yeah, they wanted way too much for what they had to offer. I do understand they have overhead fees to pay for. They have to pay for the space they're in. They have employees who need to eat and pay rent. Shipping costs and labor have to be accounted for. Then again I'm not rich, I don't save up all year for this event. I'm a night shift, part-time employee who goes to collage. I really could have used a couple cool free demos or something. (By the way, Thanks for the Precipice of Darkness demo Mike and Jerry!)
Waiting in lines is sorta expected at an event like this. If you're standing in long lines to play a game, then it's a choice you made. You honestly can't complain about it. You could have just as easily got out of line, waited for the game to come out on your favorite system and then paid the $50+ to play it in the comfort of your home.
I was very happy that this time I got to meet Wil Wheaton. I think he's a great guy and I felt really bad I couldn't buy any of his books after I spent the last of my cash on my food. (I was like the third to last guy in line on Friday so I couldn't even make a run to the ATM.) He signed my Game Boy for me even after I said I couldn't buy anything from him. So I promised I would buy one of his books online even though he won't see much of that money. Wil, if you read this, Thanks again. You are now the coolest guy I don't know. lol.
All in all, My biggest complaint was against Wizards. Stop being so cheap, or you'll lose more of your supporters.
Havoqx on
I don't play on Xbox live. Can't stand the damn kids.
Can we all just agree that kenpachisan is on the board of directors for E4All and have a moderator lock the thread?
Haha I agree, mostly with the first part :P
Simplicity on
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
The only line I saw that was REALLY problematic was the confusing wrap-around line when the exhibit hall opened initially, and you didn't really HAVE to stand in that one if you didn't want to - just if you really wanted to be part of the mad initial gallop into the exhibit hall. It seemed like the crowd was spread well around the building at any given time - there weren't lines for things like the bathrooms or anything, just for the super popular panels. The op sounds like kind of a tosser.
The lines in the Expo Hall were really bad on Friday and Saturday, but decent on Sunday. The lines for PC Freeplay were decent on Friday, but steadily grew through Sunday. Never really tried Console Freeplay, but it always looked pretty packed.
The moral of this post? Really depends on when you tried to hit stuff.
The only line I saw that was REALLY problematic was the confusing wrap-around line when the exhibit hall opened initially, and you didn't really HAVE to stand in that one if you didn't want to - just if you really wanted to be part of the mad initial gallop into the exhibit hall. It seemed like the crowd was spread well around the building at any given time - there weren't lines for things like the bathrooms or anything, just for the super popular panels. The op sounds like kind of a tosser.
Yeah, I showed up about 5 minutes after 10 on Saturday and just ducked right into the Expo hall, without even realizing there was a line heading in.
The lines in the Expo Hall were really bad on Friday and Saturday, but decent on Sunday. The lines for PC Freeplay were decent on Friday, but steadily grew through Sunday. Never really tried Console Freeplay, but it always looked pretty packed.
The moral of this post? Really depends on when you tried to hit stuff.
Yeah I talked with you about this on sunday I think.
Every time I managed to find time to head into expo and take a look around, there was no lines at all and the crowds were reasonable. I didnt realize until sunday morning that all the times I went in there, was during a main theatre event so... you kind of have to pick and choose what you want to do at PAX. You cant hit everything all the time.
Total parking for One Convention Place was $72 for the weekend. I got two "parking tickets" for "overnight parking," which sucked, but it turns out they were basically just leaving evidence that I'd been there three days -- I paid $10 for parking and $62 in tickets. Since it would've been $31 per day for parking anyway, I came out fine.
That said, I might just see if a local friend can put me up for the weekend next time, because, while I like being with friends in a hotel room, I don't like the end result of sleeping with six other guys in a room. It's not enjoyable to get 3-4 hours of sleep and to have to wait an hour for a shower in the morning.
Mine was $59 for the weekend. I parked at the alternate convention center parking, and I paid at the kiosk. By the time I got down the spiral and approached the exit, I found that there was nobody at the guard shack, the guard gate was up and open. Murphy's law, huh? I wanted to bang my head against the wall :P. God, I still do. :P
I paid a total of $39 at 2 union square (which you can take an elevator up to the lobby level, then walk across a courtyard and into the convention center on the second floor where the rock band freeplay was set up), but I didn't leave my truck there all weekend (drove down from my house in north seattle all three days)
I hauled out three bags full of swag and prizes. All of it was good, cool stuff (tshirts, mouse pads, backpacks). You had to talk to the people about the games, or demo them, or show up at the right time to get it. If you wanted the swag, it was there, you just had to work a little harder for it. Sunday was the best swag day by far.
Sounds like the OP needs to stay home, he doesn't know what the con is about, perhaps it needs to be reinterated on the website. Either way, more swag and less wait time for the rest of us. I went to PAX '04 and came back for '08 and it was understood in '04 that PAX was a place for gamers to get together, yes, the exhibition hall is cool, yes you can play new games, but its not E3. If you don't like the lines go to a panel. If you don't like the music stay out of the concerts. Go PLAY GAMES! PAX is about gamers getting together and gaming. Go to the rock band area, hang out in the hand held lounges, play some games in the console and PC areas. The exhibition hall is cool but its not what the place is about. Its a place for gamers of cross-over interests to come and get it all in one place.
Maybe its elitest of me but I noticed a high number of people there that just "didn't get it", who were there because they thought it was the new E3 and not having any clue of the camaraderie and the place for "gamers to come home" to be with tons of like minded individuals who share the same interests. Stay home, and shut it if your priority is to play only what isn't out yet and score free stuff.
Either you're a really good troll or someone who just has no business there.
Enforcers did great, told me where everything was and knew what was going on all the time. I asked them so many questions and every time I got the right answer and got where I needed to be.
I had to check my bags because of all the free swag I got, couldn't carry it on the plane. Free t-shirts, Bully dodge balls, thumbdrives, puppets, autographed giant posters, pins, pens, stickers, etc. They gave away lots of free swag, but swag runs out and over 50k people aren't all going to get the coolest stuff. They give it to people who take time to take interest in their games as a reward. Its like a quest item if you want to think of it differently. There is a limited amount, they don't just hand it out to anyone, they hand it to the people who take interest in their stuff and who are likely to either buy it or advocate their game to other people online or that they know personally.
My complaint about PAX is that there was so much I wanted to do and never go time to do. That and my legs are killing me. :P
Sounds like the OP needs to stay home, he doesn't know what the con is about, perhaps it needs to be reinterated on the website. Either way, more swag and less wait time for the rest of us. I went to PAX '04 and came back for '08 and it was understood in '04 that PAX was a place for gamers to get together, yes, the exhibition hall is cool, yes you can play new games, but its not E3. If you don't like the lines go to a panel. If you don't like the music stay out of the concerts. Go PLAY GAMES! PAX is about gamers getting together and gaming. Go to the rock band area, hang out in the hand held lounges, play some games in the console and PC areas. The exhibition hall is cool but its not what the place is about. Its a place for gamers of cross-over interests to come and get it all in one place.
Maybe its elitest of me but I noticed a high number of people there that just "didn't get it", who were there because they thought it was the new E3 and not having any clue of the camaraderie and the place for "gamers to come home" to be with tons of like minded individuals who share the same interests. Stay home, and shut it if your priority is to play only what isn't out yet and score free stuff.
Either you're a really good troll or someone who just has no business there.
Enforcers did great, told me where everything was and knew what was going on all the time. I asked them so many questions and every time I got the right answer and got where I needed to be.
I had to check my bags because of all the free swag I got, couldn't carry it on the plane. Free t-shirts, Bully dodge balls, thumbdrives, puppets, autographed giant posters, pins, pens, stickers, etc. They gave away lots of free swag, but swag runs out and over 50k people aren't all going to get the coolest stuff. They give it to people who take time to take interest in their games as a reward. Its like a quest item if you want to think of it differently. There is a limited amount, they don't just hand it out to anyone, they hand it to the people who take interest in their stuff and who are likely to either buy it or advocate their game to other people online or that they know personally.
My complaint about PAX is that there was so much I wanted to do and never go time to do. That and my legs are killing me. :P
AMEN. It's all about the community. That's what the original vision was, and that's what Tycho and Gabe want the focus to still be. It was never meant to be an E3 clone. Now, because E3 has died and E4All is a walking corpse there are going to be some changes to PAX as the audience absorbs more and more of the people who frequented those events, but the core of PAX is to be a festival for gamers.
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Very interesting thread, I was not able to attend PAX, even though I tried my hardest, but what it seems to come down to is expectations, and how they were not met for the OP.
First let me say to all the people who have been trashing him, I am a bit appalled at your harsh responses. It seems that this community is very open until someone brings something that may go counter fan-boy/girl to PA. This is understandable! But please, can we limit the sophomoric responses and address the rant the OP gave with a bit of respect? If you had a bad time with something, you would want to be heard and not torched.
Now about the OP, it seems that there were some big expectations that he had that were not met. I can understand having big expectations at this kind of event, it is one that is built up huge. It would seem to me that all of his expectations that he laid out had to do with himself as an individual, getting playing time, waiting in line, moving through crowds, getting good "swag". It sounds like he came in with a very strong sense of "getting his", and having a good time doing it. Again, understandable!
What I wonder though, is if the original poster grasps what the purpose of the event is. From what I have been reading, and have been told, it is a community group experience, that a lot of the fun to be had is with the other people who have like mindedness towards the love of gaming, and the culture that surrounds it. If a preson comes in expecting to be "given" a lot, I wonder if that is the correct mode to be in, I wonder if the correct mindset is to be GIVING to the community as a whole, what can a person offer to their community to better themselves and the group as a whole. This is a very broad response, I know, but after reading numerous posts and seeing videos about people who really had a blast because of the people they were with. it is something that I have been pondering.
Getting limited items from games is something that is very desirable, I know, and it is dissapointing when it does not happen. It sounds like the OP had a lot of disappointment in this area. I do sympathize with this, you will have at every event, hands down, the group of Guerilla freedom fighters who are able to maneuver into the right spot to get the best stuff. Kudos to them, There is nothing that can be done about this, it simply is the nature of the beast.
Also, when you are in a large group of people, as the OP was, you are going to inevitably run into people who are rude. It is simply the way life is. You are going to run into people who have been taught that there pleasure comes before anyone elses. Look, the people who make X-Box Live a really unenjoyable experience are real live breathing people, and they flock to things like this. You are going to meet them, hands down.
It sounds like the OP did in fact try to hel pthe community mindset by playing a short amount of time so that those behind him could play, i give him kudos for that, I am the same way when I am in line for something, and I have taught my children that other people matter. I teach them this with the understanding that they may not have this reciprocated, but if we continue to work and present this mindset, it will eventually catch on.
Conventions are BIG things. Penny Arcade is especially big because of the 'net presence they have. However, we consume Penny Arcade usually in a vacuum, where we feel it is just us the reader and the creators of the strip and the news posts. it can feel very one-on-one, and can create a great relationship in your electronic world as a reader. Penny Arcade can be YOURS, and no one elses, which is an illusion. I wonder if the OP had that same feeling, and got overwhelmed when he walked into thousands of people. This can be a mind bending experience.
Well just my two cents. I am hopeful to make next year's. Keep up the good work guys, I know something like this is HUGE work, I am glad that you are listening to feedback and responding to make things better. God Bless you today!
Okay, I don't usually post and just read the forums...but I heard Kaitou Ayashi reading this thread in the living room and I had to put my word in on the matter.
Lines, yeah, they are long, but you'd think grade school would have prepared you for a line.
Swag, crap or not, it's free. If all you have to do is get in line and talk about a game for some stuff, I'm in!
Crowds, okay, I'm not a crowd person, but I managed I deal with the people that are just as into games as I was for several hours of the day...sure wish I could be in a place with other gamers all the time every other weekend of the year!
I may have missed everything I wanted to go and see, but I still had a great time being with people that were in the same mindset as myself.
Total parking for One Convention Place was $72 for the weekend. I got two "parking tickets" for "overnight parking," which sucked, but it turns out they were basically just leaving evidence that I'd been there three days -- I paid $10 for parking and $62 in tickets. Since it would've been $31 per day for parking anyway, I came out fine.
That said, I might just see if a local friend can put me up for the weekend next time, because, while I like being with friends in a hotel room, I don't like the end result of sleeping with six other guys in a room. It's not enjoyable to get 3-4 hours of sleep and to have to wait an hour for a shower in the morning.
Mine was $59 for the weekend. I parked at the alternate convention center parking, and I paid at the kiosk. By the time I got down the spiral and approached the exit, I found that there was nobody at the guard shack, the guard gate was up and open. Murphy's law, huh? I wanted to bang my head against the wall :P. God, I still do. :P
I paid a total of $39 at 2 union square (which you can take an elevator up to the lobby level, then walk across a courtyard and into the convention center on the second floor where the rock band freeplay was set up), but I didn't leave my truck there all weekend (drove down from my house in north seattle all three days)
I was BYOC, so I felt it was worth the extra money to park right under the center -- short walks carrying heavy shit.
If you go into something like this expecting perfection, fast lines, and every one of your whims catered to by an event that's catering to 40 thousand-plus other people, you're going to be disappointed.
My mother died on August 21st, no warning, no reason. Now I'm standing in her shoes, trying to hold my family together, and I'm not even 30 years old yet. I only came because I felt that she'd be disappointed with me if I cancelled on something I'd been looking forward to since 07. I walked into PAX grieving, and I still managed to have fun.
You walked into PAX and made yourself miserable. Some events are just plain bad, but PAX isn't one of them. Lines are lame, I agree, but the conversations I had in them were great, and I had a lot of fun making a pipecleaner Chthulhu/Spagetti Monster while hanging out in the epic final Omegathon line.
The guys giving out quests made fun happen. The dude with the pipecleaners had many big boxes of fuzzy fun. The Cookie Brigade made cookies (which are fun.) The cosplayers created fun and showed it off. None of those people were paid to do the things they did. Come back next year, and instead of expecting fun to be handed to you (though if you are receptive to it, others will bring it) bring some of your own and share it around.
Samyel on
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity."
The move to Seattle was a big step for PAX. I saw part of the behind the scenes chaos last year working as an exhibitor, and let me tell you, it was quite insane. It is a terrible beast that the enforcers, exhibitors, and center staff slay all weekend. I imagine that Mr. Khoo only stops in some strange ritual akin to a NASCAR pit stop; he is held immobile for a few brief seconds to be refueled before dashing off to join the enforcers in another sector of need. These people are all volunteering their time, and I will hazard a guess that they have not received diplomas in "Geek Herding." That they manage us all as efficiently as they do is a testament to their dedication.
Swag, as has been pointed out, is expensive. With the form of attendance the con uses, you have to figure what? 20,000 bags of swag for that initial day.
20 000 DVDs? 20 000 little flashlights? Perhaps, in '06, 100 000 of those Magic booster decks? So on, so forth. (Come on, we all know we just kept nabbing them if they were handed to us.)
Plus getting the booth space, getting the booth staffed, setting up the staff with hotels (and that's if you're a bigtime developper. PAX also caters to some smaller groups. Those guys pay out of pocket for hotels and food.) Shipping all the booth stuff and getting it set up, run, and then torn down and sent back.
Consider what an amount of money that is, even for larger developpers.
PAX has grown far, far beyond it's beginnings. At the first PAX, yes, we may have had more awesome swag, but we only had 1337 pre-regs. This year, I heard quotes in excess of 40 000. That's a hell of a lot of free things to try and provide.
Even at the first PAX, guys, we had lines for some things. Admittedly, they were a heck of a lot smaller, but they were there. In those lines, we chatted or drew genitals in Pictochat or played DS games or card games. We socialized with real people that were not just over an internet connection. That's a huge part of PAX for a lot of us, I suspect. I know it is why myself and a large group of the people I know attend.
I'll agree with the OP, even if it was supposed to be trolling or not; yes, the lines this year were horrendous. They were long. They were beyond long.
But they were not bad. Whenever I was in a line, I played on my DS, chatted with fellow nearby line-people (or, you know, sometimes the booth people. They, sometimes, like to talk as well.) The only line I was conceiviably going to spend more than ten minutes waiting in was Left4Dead... and I understood why. Yes, panel lines were long, and some of us wouldn't fit, but that will be the same wherever we go now. PAX is too big for all 15-20k people who are, at any given time, inside the center, to fit in one place.
No, I do not think we are yet powerful enough to rent out a stadium for the Will Wheaton speech. No matter how bad I wanted to see his panel. Perhaps, though, we will see such glories in the future.
Scotasianglish on
The original chinese-welsh-scotsman with a japanese last name.
There's an e-mail thread at my work right now, and I'm hearing a lot of the same complaints about Lines, Commercialism, Booth Babes, and No Sense of Community from the folks I work with as I'm seeing in the threads here. This is my response to them:
Here's the essential truth about "Why PAX is Awesome": It's about the Gamers, not the Games.
Of course, that's the rub; in previous years, it was really easy to sit down in a line with pretty much anyone, strike up a conversation, play some DS, or what have you. PAX people are awesome people, and why PAX in previous years has been so awesome. That said, PAX is growing; I'm hearing 58,500 this year, up from last year's 37,400, in the same size space. With the death of the public side of E3, PAX is starting to fill that gap as the place for vendors to show off their stuff to the public.
What does this mean? The PAX People are harder to find amongst the crowds of self-centered E3 refugees and bandwagoneers. They're still there, but you must seek them out. I, myself, had a blast, but I spent most of the weekend meeting people from the PAX forums and IRC channel that I've been talking to for months now, and they are exactly the type of people I remember chilling with in line last year. The real Gamer core, that makes PAX what it is.
The minds behind the Cookie Brigade, exchanging home-baked cookies for donations, who raised $5,400 for Child's Play over the weekend.
Or the various other community-run events, like the Pre-PAX Dinner, the Pre-PAX Breakfast at Pike's Place, or the Triwizard's Drinking Tournament.
PAX is about the Community. The Community's just being overshadowed by the Commercialism, and you have to go out of your way to find it. I did, and I had a great time. Definitely going again next year.
Here's the essential truth about "Why PAX is Awesome": It's about the Gamers, not the Games.
Of course, that's the rub; in previous years, it was really easy to sit down in a line with pretty much anyone, strike up a conversation, play some DS, or what have you. PAX people are awesome people, and why PAX in previous years has been so awesome. That said, PAX is growing; I'm hearing 58,500 this year, up from last year's 37,400, in the same size space. With the death of the public side of E3, PAX is starting to fill that gap as the place for vendors to show off their stuff to the public.
What does this mean? The PAX People are harder to find amongst the crowds of self-centered E3 refugees and bandwagoneers. They're still there, but you must seek them out. I, myself, had a blast, but I spent most of the weekend meeting people from the PAX forums and IRC channel that I've been talking to for months now, and they are exactly the type of people I remember chilling with in line last year. The real Gamer core, that makes PAX what it is.
The minds behind the Cookie Brigade, exchanging home-baked cookies for donations, who raised $5,400 for Child's Play over the weekend.
The Bad Horse Snipers, who sang for various individuals, including Gabe and Tycho, and Felicia Day.
The Buttoneers, who traded buttons of their forum avatars with each other, and gave a full set to Gabe and Tycho.
Or the various other community-run events, like the Pre-PAX Dinner, the Pre-PAX Breakfast at Pike's Place, or the Triwizard's Drinking Tournament.
PAX is about the Community. The Community's just being overshadowed by the Commercialism, and you have to go out of your way to find it. I did, and I had a great time. Definitely going again next year.
- Houn
I guess that is the ultimate question: "What does PAX mean to you?"
To me, it meant being able to go to an event and feel at home among total strangers. It meant not being the only person in the room of hundreds who recognized the game references that Wil Wheaton made.
It seems, to me, that it would be easy to have a great time with tons of friends and people you already know. You could probably take the same number of companions to downtown Seattle, any public park, or a grocery store and still have just as much fun. You could start a local gaming group and meet every few weeks and it would undoubtedly be just as much fun. If you have to spend time on forums(irony duly noted), IRC, or other dark alleys of the internet to enjoy it, then it isn't the PAX that I fell in love with.
PAX, for me, was being among friends that I had never met. Period. Not being _with_ friends among the knuckle-dragging, mouth breathers bragging about how they made fun of the mentally handicapped girl at Safeway and how they "owned that stupid fukken nerd" in Halo 3. (We actually *did* overhear this in one of the Friday night panel lines.)
Going to PAX WAS going out of your way to find the community. If the ratio of asshole frat boys and "FPS Dougs" to real and like-minded gamers has gotten so out of proportion, I think I'll just take my friends, family and DS down to the nearest skate park and save myself a $40 pass and $60 in parking.
PAX is a chance to see friends that I don't get to see as often as I'd like, a chance to see demos of games that haven't been released, play them, and form an opinion of them that I can share with less fortunate gamers who don't get the chance to attend.
It is a feeling of comraderie, a sensation of being part of something bigger than myself, and a chance to bring a little sunshine to the lives of my fellow gamers. It's my opinion that we all need more association with people who understand us, so I try my best to extend that kind of an atmosphere to those around me.
It's a place I can go to get "in the know" about games, gaming and the community. It's about getting cool, limited quantity items for games that I like, even if that means paying a little bit in time or money to get them.
Finally, it's an opportunity to see droves of dongs and a plethora of penii all scrolling by in dicktochat.
I have to say, this was my first PAX and I had a blast. The Women in Gaming panel was great. And the Tri-Wizard tournament(at least what I can remember of it since we had to double up and we went through about 8 or 9 shots in 2 and half hours) was awesome. And I met some new people. Stephanie and Franky were very fun people and I hope to keep in touch. We felt real funky after the triwizard tournament and were a bit disappointed in a few things the first day, but by Jonathan Coulton we were in awesome spirits and totally decided to go again next year. We got a sneak preview for the Monster Apocalypse game which means between the four of us, we're kicking ass. I got a great T-Shirt from Burning Seas and another good one from champions online and a less free one from JoCo. My only two gripes were that the movies didn't really go off well. I really wanted to see The Wizard again and it got scratched and also, all of the Pen and Paper stuff was filled up. I'd love to see a little more of that next year. I was hoping Bethesda might have some better fallout swag even if it was for sale. I totally would have bought a vault shirt. Champions Online looks great and I wasn't excited about it until now. Overall, one of the best times I've had since Dragon-Con.
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you wanted swag. bungie gave it away in droves.
"In the closing minutes of Penny Arcade Expo 2008, some publishers and developers went to extreme measures to clear our their swag inventory and goodies. But none of them matched Bungie's zeal. The Halo developers went through what looked to be eight large boxes of Halo-themed games, toys and gear. The Bungie folks just tore open the boxes and started throwing stuff everywhere, heedless of heads, flat screens and the ceiling."
In that case, I do have a suggestion. Sometimes people would line up for a panel that was held in a small room (especially if it was a particularly popular panel). Those rooms have max capacities so not to violate the fire code. One thing the encforcers might think about doing next year is getting a few of the $3 manual counters (like this - available at Archie McFee's) and walk thru the line counting people off with the clicker. Once they count up to the max capacity that the room can hold, they should cut the line off and tell those who are past the cut-off and still waiting to go enjoy other things because the room is at capacity. That would solve the problem a lot of people ran into who were waiting in line because they thought there was still hope of getting into a room that was stuffed to the gills. If they were informed they weren't going to get in, they could go do other things instead of waiting and clinging to the false hope that they'll get in. Just a suggestion.
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Yeah, I noticed that too. Here are some choice quotes from our nice little troll:
Stay classy, kenpachisan. Stay classy.
Good thing everyone gave away swag while most of the con was at the Omegathon. It really rewards those who believe that PAX is about the Gamers and Community, rather than the Trade Show.
What's so funny about Gender Odysey? Seriously. "*Giggles like a stupid 5th grader* OMG, there are gay people having a con! *Giggle, giggle*" Grow up, shitbag. My brother is a transgendered man and was attending Gender Odysey. It was awesome to see him there enjoying a con that means as much to him as PAX means to me. So they happened to have their con at the same time PAX was going on. So? I'll bet you're one of those stupid fucks who in games calls everyone a fag. Good on ya, jerk.
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I agree with you that they have their convention, so what?
But who's genius idea was it to have a "Gender Odyssey" convention above an estimated 60,000 people, 75% of who's time is spent on Ventrilo and Xbox Live screaming "**** you ya faggot!" and "that was so ****ing gay!!" during TF2 and Halo 3?
Not looking to complain or anything, just pointing out an amusing choice of convention times between both groups.
Would the WSCTC host the "Vietnam Communist Party" reunion gathering in the ballroom while having the "U.S. Army Vietnam Veteran's" reunion a floor below?
Holy Fuck I should have stayed until 6pm there then. I was in some newgrounds booth and there was a crowd chanting "free stuff" and the booth people were flinging shirts over other booths for people to catch.
Jeff: I see
jsn: and I was like "I wonder how he goes to the washroom, does he just like...brush his loincloth to the side or what?"
jsn: friend was like "DUDE he's BEHIND YOU"
That analogy is very stretched, but I do see the lulz in PAX + Gender Odyssey.
First, the lines: I have zero problem waiting in lines. I flew days after 9/11, fly no less than 15 times a year, have worked retail on Black Friday, and commute every day to and from work on a bus that's so full I have to stand pressed like a sardine against the back wall for an hour each way. I'm well versed in lines, but I was disappointed in PAX's lines.
Here's why; No Intelligent Line Management. The difference between the above situations and PAX is that the airports, the retail department stores and the bus all use effective line management. This would include ropes, signage and line manager communication.
Does anyone remember the line to get to the nVidia / BFG booth last year for the free t-shirt and buttons? That line was well defined with duct tape on the ground, signs marking "this is the line" taped up on the back of vendor booths, and a TON of Enforcers every 20-30 people or so making sure everyone was single or double-file. The line wrapped around to the right wall and snaked down almost near the Turbine booth, but it had breaks in it for people to get through without having to shove. The breaks were maintained by the Enforcers to make sure the nVidia / BFG vendor's booth didn't kill the enjoyment of PAX for the other Vendors and PAX-goers because of the promotion that BFG decided to put on. This was a hell of a line, and the Enforcers were hailed as so awesome for making sure everyone was in order.
Flash forward to PAX '08, about the time that the Fallout 3 demo got out. The demo began a few minutes early and let out quite a earlier than expected. I heard an Enforcer on a radio saying something to the effect of "oh, crap. They let out early... we need to get some people in place, NOW." Suddenly, the thousands of people attending the demo were all rushing the Fallout 3 booth because of a promotion Bethesda unleashed, earlier than the Enforcers were prepared for. By the time I managed to push through to the booth, there were no less than 3 independent "lines" which kept shifting, all the while I kept being told "oh, this is the back of 'the' line" several times. There were no ropes until an hour later. I decided to just skip it and went back about 2 hours after to redeem my cards. By the end of it, I was ticked off at Bethesda for not working a little closer with the Enforcers to ensure a good flow to their booth.
The problem this year wasn't so much the volume of people, or the concentration of vendors in the expo hall, it had simply to do with a lack of line control. I'd guess it stems from a lack of communications between the vendors and the Enforcers.
Second, the swag: It really seemed to most people this year that the swag was nearly non-existent and initially I agreed. Sitting on it after the fact, though, I have to say that the swag quality was on par with last year. That's not to say I don't take issue with it, though.
Sure, this year you weren't able to just approach a booth and have someone ask you what shirt you wanted in what size. You actually had to go talk to someone about the game. Or God forbid, play the game for 5 minutes. I don't see anything wrong with this. In a receding economy, you can't necessarily afford to print 60,000 t-shirts. You'll want to print 15,000 and give them for free to only those people who would be in the market for your game. How do you do this? You isolate those folks by talking to them and getting them to demo it. You don't just hand a shirt out to every person who walks by. I'm perfectly fine with this approach.
What I didn't like however, was the mass amount of paper swag being given out this year. In an age where everyone and their brother is using the "going Green" movement as a marketing tactic, I don't get how it can be acceptable for your company's marketing department to approve a 60,000 sheet paper marketing campaign for your video game. ESPECIALLY in Seattle of all places. We're all such "Green-ophiles" in the Pacific Northwest, yet they allowed all this paper to happen. Wonderful choice, guys.
Not only that, but the majority of us gamers are guys. (Like it or not.) When we get shirts and computer accessories as swag, we tend to use it for YEARS afterward. When we get stacks of paper that we'll look over once or twice from the exhibitors, our wives, girlfriends and mothers tend to get pissed off at all the clutter and it needs to go. This doesn't seem to be good marketing sense. I'm fine with limiting your t-shirt swag, because it costs real money to produce, but what's the point in throwing money away on paper advertising when 90% of it will be in the garbage after PAX?
Third, the attendees: Everyone seemed really on edge on Friday, and it really did suck to be in the expo hall then. Most people had been waiting in line for 2+ hours only to find out that their buddies who just arrived were already in checking out Fallout 3 and such. This is such an aggravating experience for most people that there was a lot of "crowd anger" going on. People all unwilling to move to let you through, even after asking. A LOT of elbows and tripping.
Saturday seemed to cool off a little, but Sunday was the first day that the crowd really seemed to calm down and started enjoying the show for the show.
A little advice for next year; treat the crowds as they are - a big, dumb mass of animals waiting anxiously for their reward. If you make them wait, PLEASE prevent others from getting in ahead of them. If 250 people getting in early pisses off 5,000 people, it tends to make EVERYONE in the crowds pissy. Shit does roll downhill, and the mass effect of emotions on crowds is a very real phenomena. How else do violent mobs start?
Forth, the food and drink: I agree that we're in downtown Seattle and there's a TON of food nearby to go eat. This isn't a problem.
What I had issue with was the lack of canned drinks and most of all: WHERE WAS ALL THE BAWLS???!?!?!
The folks at the awesome Brawndo booth told me that the convention center management banned them from being able to sell or give away any canned drinks this year because they didn't want to have to clean up all the garbage again. I'd assume this is the reason that only plastic bottled drinks were available, and nothing in a can or a glass bottle, but seriously...
I, and so many others, paid 30-50 dollars a pop to get in. You'd think that at approximately 60,000 people at 40 bucks a pop average, totaling $2,400,000 JUST from ticket sales, they could afford to have 3 or 4 people sweep up 500 empty Brawndo cans. I'm sure the Brawndo booth would have paid $1,000 to hire a team of people to clean up all the empties after PAX if they could have sold them. The profit would have FAR exceeded the cleaning expense, everyone there was going for Brawndo like it was crack in a can.
All in all, I had fun. Sunday was the best day for me, but I like smaller crowds and a more relaxed atmosphere. They seriously need to fix the line management issues, but I don't think this is any one entity's fault - I think blame lies with everyone for this.
once again, the decisions regarding what beverages were available were largely out of Penny Arcade's hands
the convention center controls that
Total parking for One Convention Place was $72 for the weekend. I got two "parking tickets" for "overnight parking," which sucked, but it turns out they were basically just leaving evidence that I'd been there three days -- I paid $10 for parking and $62 in tickets. Since it would've been $31 per day for parking anyway, I came out fine.
That said, I might just see if a local friend can put me up for the weekend next time, because, while I like being with friends in a hotel room, I don't like the end result of sleeping with six other guys in a room. It's not enjoyable to get 3-4 hours of sleep and to have to wait an hour for a shower in the morning.
Mine was $59 for the weekend. I parked at the alternate convention center parking, and I paid at the kiosk. By the time I got down the spiral and approached the exit, I found that there was nobody at the guard shack, the guard gate was up and open. Murphy's law, huh? I wanted to bang my head against the wall :P. God, I still do. :P
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The one big line issue I heard of was after a large event; I think it was the Make a Strip panel. The attendees were allowed to stay in the room, so the people outside were not able to get in. PA should decided on a policy of which panels require the room to be cleared or not, post it in the scheduling booklet, and make announcements as people enter, i.e. "You will/will not be allowed to stay in this room after the panel is over." They did it for events in the Raven Theater, but I don't know if they did it elsewhere.
Crowded? I had no issue with crowds. I never felt pushed, showed, or longing for air. But then again, I've also been to the previous cons mentioned and PAX 06, with the smaller venue, was much worse.
Swag did seem less than last year but consider the economy. And then consider the advice of others to TALK to the exhibitors. Also, the booths give it away sporadically, and when they do it's gone in a flash. The NCSoft booth would run out within minutes, and Bungie tossed boxed of figures into the crowd on Sunday, and I believe it was before the Omegathon started.
Food and brawls PAX can't control. The convention center food was overpriced, $6+ for sandwiches or salads, but their lines were shorter. If money is an issue brave the Subway or Taco Del Mar, but I avoid the pizza place just because they tend to run out and be painfully slow. If you don't want to do that, get of your butt and walk two to three blocks. The weather was mostly nice, and there are eating places scattered around downtown Seattle.
Someone mentioned parking, I believe. It's downtown Seattle and not much can be done. I hate it too. The hotels charge a parking fee too, FYI.
More vendors would be nice. PAX can do something about that, but they can't control the prices.
Did the SUMOs seem flatter this year? I love those things but maybe I got the more roughly used ones.
I think Astayonix's aide for a line counter clicker thing -- the technical name -- is a good one. It'll keep people from being disappointed when they can't get in. I'm not sure what to do about spot holding though. Perhaps announce you're doing a count and have people tell you if they are holding and for how many, though please don't have one person hold a space for ten , then tell people at the end that there is a good chance they won't get in. They can wait if they want, but no guarantees?
Overall, though the OP made some valid points, he came off as a douche, insulting people and name calling -- including overweight people when he himself is a 3x-- and I discourage the OP from coming again. Stay home. There are no lines there. Others made the same points, but they did it much more maturely.
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Alright, I too created an account just to reply to this. I have yet to read through all 6+ pages of replies, but I'm sure a lot of people have told you off already. The above is all I really care to address because I sort of agree with you on this. (I never went to the concert, or stood in lines to play games. I can't justify standing in a 30 minuet line, to play a video game for 10 minutes or less.)
I don't agree with you about the Enforcers though. I think the enforcers did a great job. Every time I asked an enforcer where something was, They would point me right to it. Once, a female enforcer walked with me to make sure I got where I wanted to go. Talk about service! I wish I knew her name so I could thank her on here personally. I hope she attends the next PAX because she was very helpful and we need people like that.
Anyways, yes. The swag this year was crap. This is the third PAX I've been to. I went in '06 and '07 before and both of those years were pretty good. Lot's of cool shit being given away then. I remember in '06 when Wizards was giving out one or two packs of 9th edition of Magic at the door. (I was a big Magic player. so I was very impressed.) The Wizards booth then also handed out these really cool mouse pads with magic art on them, (I still have a couple I use). The last two years, they've become so cheap with how they do things, I have quit magic, and now tell people why NOT to play the game instead of teaching them how to play. (This is really more of a complaint against Wizards really I suppose. PAX has nothing to do with how cheap they've become.) Wizards was giving out a mouse pad but only if you played a demo of their game, and they only wanted to teach new players. (Wizards, I'm done with you.)
This year, I went to PAX only for Friday since I had no friends to go with me. I paid $30 to get in the door thinking that if anything, I would get some cool swag to make up for the $30 and time spent waiting in lines to get from place to place. No. The booths in the Expo had some really cool merchandise, but yeah, they wanted way too much for what they had to offer. I do understand they have overhead fees to pay for. They have to pay for the space they're in. They have employees who need to eat and pay rent. Shipping costs and labor have to be accounted for. Then again I'm not rich, I don't save up all year for this event. I'm a night shift, part-time employee who goes to collage. I really could have used a couple cool free demos or something. (By the way, Thanks for the Precipice of Darkness demo Mike and Jerry!)
Waiting in lines is sorta expected at an event like this. If you're standing in long lines to play a game, then it's a choice you made. You honestly can't complain about it. You could have just as easily got out of line, waited for the game to come out on your favorite system and then paid the $50+ to play it in the comfort of your home.
I was very happy that this time I got to meet Wil Wheaton. I think he's a great guy and I felt really bad I couldn't buy any of his books after I spent the last of my cash on my food. (I was like the third to last guy in line on Friday so I couldn't even make a run to the ATM.) He signed my Game Boy for me even after I said I couldn't buy anything from him. So I promised I would buy one of his books online even though he won't see much of that money. Wil, if you read this, Thanks again. You are now the coolest guy I don't know. lol.
All in all, My biggest complaint was against Wizards. Stop being so cheap, or you'll lose more of your supporters.
Haha I agree, mostly with the first part :P
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The moral of this post? Really depends on when you tried to hit stuff.
Yeah, I showed up about 5 minutes after 10 on Saturday and just ducked right into the Expo hall, without even realizing there was a line heading in.
And i refused to wait 4 hours in line to play Left 4 Dead.
But i got enough to keep me happy. I had a blast.
Yeah I talked with you about this on sunday I think.
Every time I managed to find time to head into expo and take a look around, there was no lines at all and the crowds were reasonable. I didnt realize until sunday morning that all the times I went in there, was during a main theatre event so... you kind of have to pick and choose what you want to do at PAX. You cant hit everything all the time.
I got left4dead swag just for talking to the Valve guy there about the game.
Also pics of my swag coming soon. for all those that say there wasn't any good swag. I just wish I had gotten one of those black&white balls!
I paid a total of $39 at 2 union square (which you can take an elevator up to the lobby level, then walk across a courtyard and into the convention center on the second floor where the rock band freeplay was set up), but I didn't leave my truck there all weekend (drove down from my house in north seattle all three days)
Maybe its elitest of me but I noticed a high number of people there that just "didn't get it", who were there because they thought it was the new E3 and not having any clue of the camaraderie and the place for "gamers to come home" to be with tons of like minded individuals who share the same interests. Stay home, and shut it if your priority is to play only what isn't out yet and score free stuff.
Either you're a really good troll or someone who just has no business there.
Enforcers did great, told me where everything was and knew what was going on all the time. I asked them so many questions and every time I got the right answer and got where I needed to be.
I had to check my bags because of all the free swag I got, couldn't carry it on the plane. Free t-shirts, Bully dodge balls, thumbdrives, puppets, autographed giant posters, pins, pens, stickers, etc. They gave away lots of free swag, but swag runs out and over 50k people aren't all going to get the coolest stuff. They give it to people who take time to take interest in their games as a reward. Its like a quest item if you want to think of it differently. There is a limited amount, they don't just hand it out to anyone, they hand it to the people who take interest in their stuff and who are likely to either buy it or advocate their game to other people online or that they know personally.
My complaint about PAX is that there was so much I wanted to do and never go time to do. That and my legs are killing me. :P
AMEN. It's all about the community. That's what the original vision was, and that's what Tycho and Gabe want the focus to still be. It was never meant to be an E3 clone. Now, because E3 has died and E4All is a walking corpse there are going to be some changes to PAX as the audience absorbs more and more of the people who frequented those events, but the core of PAX is to be a festival for gamers.
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First let me say to all the people who have been trashing him, I am a bit appalled at your harsh responses. It seems that this community is very open until someone brings something that may go counter fan-boy/girl to PA. This is understandable! But please, can we limit the sophomoric responses and address the rant the OP gave with a bit of respect? If you had a bad time with something, you would want to be heard and not torched.
Now about the OP, it seems that there were some big expectations that he had that were not met. I can understand having big expectations at this kind of event, it is one that is built up huge. It would seem to me that all of his expectations that he laid out had to do with himself as an individual, getting playing time, waiting in line, moving through crowds, getting good "swag". It sounds like he came in with a very strong sense of "getting his", and having a good time doing it. Again, understandable!
What I wonder though, is if the original poster grasps what the purpose of the event is. From what I have been reading, and have been told, it is a community group experience, that a lot of the fun to be had is with the other people who have like mindedness towards the love of gaming, and the culture that surrounds it. If a preson comes in expecting to be "given" a lot, I wonder if that is the correct mode to be in, I wonder if the correct mindset is to be GIVING to the community as a whole, what can a person offer to their community to better themselves and the group as a whole. This is a very broad response, I know, but after reading numerous posts and seeing videos about people who really had a blast because of the people they were with. it is something that I have been pondering.
Getting limited items from games is something that is very desirable, I know, and it is dissapointing when it does not happen. It sounds like the OP had a lot of disappointment in this area. I do sympathize with this, you will have at every event, hands down, the group of Guerilla freedom fighters who are able to maneuver into the right spot to get the best stuff. Kudos to them, There is nothing that can be done about this, it simply is the nature of the beast.
Also, when you are in a large group of people, as the OP was, you are going to inevitably run into people who are rude. It is simply the way life is. You are going to run into people who have been taught that there pleasure comes before anyone elses. Look, the people who make X-Box Live a really unenjoyable experience are real live breathing people, and they flock to things like this. You are going to meet them, hands down.
It sounds like the OP did in fact try to hel pthe community mindset by playing a short amount of time so that those behind him could play, i give him kudos for that, I am the same way when I am in line for something, and I have taught my children that other people matter. I teach them this with the understanding that they may not have this reciprocated, but if we continue to work and present this mindset, it will eventually catch on.
Conventions are BIG things. Penny Arcade is especially big because of the 'net presence they have. However, we consume Penny Arcade usually in a vacuum, where we feel it is just us the reader and the creators of the strip and the news posts. it can feel very one-on-one, and can create a great relationship in your electronic world as a reader. Penny Arcade can be YOURS, and no one elses, which is an illusion. I wonder if the OP had that same feeling, and got overwhelmed when he walked into thousands of people. This can be a mind bending experience.
Well just my two cents. I am hopeful to make next year's. Keep up the good work guys, I know something like this is HUGE work, I am glad that you are listening to feedback and responding to make things better. God Bless you today!
Lines, yeah, they are long, but you'd think grade school would have prepared you for a line.
Swag, crap or not, it's free. If all you have to do is get in line and talk about a game for some stuff, I'm in!
Crowds, okay, I'm not a crowd person, but I managed I deal with the people that are just as into games as I was for several hours of the day...sure wish I could be in a place with other gamers all the time every other weekend of the year!
I may have missed everything I wanted to go and see, but I still had a great time being with people that were in the same mindset as myself.
I had a great time and met some great people!
I love that thing so much. I can't stop playing with it.
I was BYOC, so I felt it was worth the extra money to park right under the center -- short walks carrying heavy shit.
My mother died on August 21st, no warning, no reason. Now I'm standing in her shoes, trying to hold my family together, and I'm not even 30 years old yet. I only came because I felt that she'd be disappointed with me if I cancelled on something I'd been looking forward to since 07. I walked into PAX grieving, and I still managed to have fun.
You walked into PAX and made yourself miserable. Some events are just plain bad, but PAX isn't one of them. Lines are lame, I agree, but the conversations I had in them were great, and I had a lot of fun making a pipecleaner Chthulhu/Spagetti Monster while hanging out in the epic final Omegathon line.
The guys giving out quests made fun happen. The dude with the pipecleaners had many big boxes of fuzzy fun. The Cookie Brigade made cookies (which are fun.) The cosplayers created fun and showed it off. None of those people were paid to do the things they did. Come back next year, and instead of expecting fun to be handed to you (though if you are receptive to it, others will bring it) bring some of your own and share it around.
Swag, as has been pointed out, is expensive. With the form of attendance the con uses, you have to figure what? 20,000 bags of swag for that initial day.
20 000 DVDs? 20 000 little flashlights? Perhaps, in '06, 100 000 of those Magic booster decks? So on, so forth. (Come on, we all know we just kept nabbing them if they were handed to us.)
Plus getting the booth space, getting the booth staffed, setting up the staff with hotels (and that's if you're a bigtime developper. PAX also caters to some smaller groups. Those guys pay out of pocket for hotels and food.) Shipping all the booth stuff and getting it set up, run, and then torn down and sent back.
Consider what an amount of money that is, even for larger developpers.
PAX has grown far, far beyond it's beginnings. At the first PAX, yes, we may have had more awesome swag, but we only had 1337 pre-regs. This year, I heard quotes in excess of 40 000. That's a hell of a lot of free things to try and provide.
Even at the first PAX, guys, we had lines for some things. Admittedly, they were a heck of a lot smaller, but they were there. In those lines, we chatted or drew genitals in Pictochat or played DS games or card games. We socialized with real people that were not just over an internet connection. That's a huge part of PAX for a lot of us, I suspect. I know it is why myself and a large group of the people I know attend.
I'll agree with the OP, even if it was supposed to be trolling or not; yes, the lines this year were horrendous. They were long. They were beyond long.
But they were not bad. Whenever I was in a line, I played on my DS, chatted with fellow nearby line-people (or, you know, sometimes the booth people. They, sometimes, like to talk as well.) The only line I was conceiviably going to spend more than ten minutes waiting in was Left4Dead... and I understood why. Yes, panel lines were long, and some of us wouldn't fit, but that will be the same wherever we go now. PAX is too big for all 15-20k people who are, at any given time, inside the center, to fit in one place.
No, I do not think we are yet powerful enough to rent out a stadium for the Will Wheaton speech. No matter how bad I wanted to see his panel. Perhaps, though, we will see such glories in the future.
I guess that is the ultimate question:
"What does PAX mean to you?"
To me, it meant being able to go to an event and feel at home among total strangers. It meant not being the only person in the room of hundreds who recognized the game references that Wil Wheaton made.
It seems, to me, that it would be easy to have a great time with tons of friends and people you already know. You could probably take the same number of companions to downtown Seattle, any public park, or a grocery store and still have just as much fun. You could start a local gaming group and meet every few weeks and it would undoubtedly be just as much fun. If you have to spend time on forums(irony duly noted), IRC, or other dark alleys of the internet to enjoy it, then it isn't the PAX that I fell in love with.
PAX, for me, was being among friends that I had never met. Period. Not being _with_ friends among the knuckle-dragging, mouth breathers bragging about how they made fun of the mentally handicapped girl at Safeway and how they "owned that stupid fukken nerd" in Halo 3. (We actually *did* overhear this in one of the Friday night panel lines.)
Going to PAX WAS going out of your way to find the community. If the ratio of asshole frat boys and "FPS Dougs" to real and like-minded gamers has gotten so out of proportion, I think I'll just take my friends, family and DS down to the nearest skate park and save myself a $40 pass and $60 in parking.
-] Twitch [-
It is a feeling of comraderie, a sensation of being part of something bigger than myself, and a chance to bring a little sunshine to the lives of my fellow gamers. It's my opinion that we all need more association with people who understand us, so I try my best to extend that kind of an atmosphere to those around me.
It's a place I can go to get "in the know" about games, gaming and the community. It's about getting cool, limited quantity items for games that I like, even if that means paying a little bit in time or money to get them.
Finally, it's an opportunity to see droves of dongs and a plethora of penii all scrolling by in dicktochat.